The H-1B visa program was created in 1990 to allow companies to bring skilled technical workers into the USA. It’s a non-immigrant visa and so has nothing at all to do with staying in the USA, becoming a citizen, or starting a business. Big tech employers are constantly lobbying for increases in H-1B quotas citing their inability to find qualified U.S. job applicants. Bill Gates and other leaders from the IT industry have testified about this before Congress. Both major political parties embrace the H-1B program with varying levels of enthusiasm. But Bill Gates is wrong. What he said to Congress may have been right for Microsoft but was wrong for America and can only lead to lower wages, lower employment, and a lower standard of living. This is a bigger deal than people understand: it’s the rebirth of industrial labor relations circa 1920. Our ignorance about the H-1B visa program is being used to unfairly limit wages and steal — yes, steal — jobs from U.S. citizens.
There are a number of common misunderstandings about the H-1B program, the first of which is its size. H-1B quotas are set by Congress and vary from 65,000 to 190,000 per year. While that would seem to limit the impact of the program on a nation of 300+ million, H-1B is way bigger than you think because each visa lasts for three years and can be extended for another three years after that.
At any moment, then, there are about 700,000 H-1B visa holders working in the USA.
Most of these H-1B visa holders work in Information Technology (IT) and most of those come from India. There are about 500,000 IT workers in the USA holding H-1B visas. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are about 2.5 million IT workers in America. So approximately 20 percent of the domestic IT workforce isn’t domestic at all, but imported on H-1B visas. Keep this in mind as we move forward.
H-1B is a non-immigrant visa. H-1B holders can work here for 3-6 years but then have to return to their native countries. It’s possible for H-1B’s to convert to a different kind of visa but not commonly done. The most common way, in fact, for converting an H-1B visa into a green card is through marriage to a U.S. citizen.
H-1B isn’t the only way for foreigners to work in America. They can work to some extent on student visas and, in fact, many student visas are eventually converted to H-1B for those who have a job and want to stay but maybe not immigrate.
There is a misconception about the H-1B program that it was designed to allow companies to import workers with unique talents. There has long been a visa program for exactly that purpose. The O (for outstanding) visa program is for importing geniuses and nothing else. Interestingly enough, the O visa program has no quotas. So when Bill Gates complained about not being able to import enough top technical people for Microsoft, he wasn’t talking about geniuses, just normal coders.
I don’t want to pick on just Microsoft here, but I happen to know the company well and have written over the years about its technical recruiting procedures. Microsoft has a rigorous recruitment and vetting process. So does Google, Apple — you name the company. All of these companies will take as many of O visa candidates as they can get, but there just aren’t that many who qualify, which is why quotas aren’t required.
So when Microsoft — or Boeing, for that matter — says a limitation on H-1B visas is keeping them from getting top talent, they don’t mean it in the way that they imply. If a prospective employee is really top talent — the kind of engineer who can truly do things others simply can’t — there isn’t much keeping the company from hiring that person under the O visa program.
H-1B visas are about journeyman techies and nothing else.
Companies can also transfer employees into the country who have worked for at least a year for the company overseas under an L-1 visa. These, too, are limited by quota and the quota is typically lower than for H-1Bs. Back in the late 1980s when the H-1B program was first being considered it was viewed as a preferable short term alternative to L-1. It has since turned into something else far darker.
So has the B visa, which is intended for companies to bring their foreign employees into the U.S. for business meetings and trade shows. You’d be amazed how many such business meetings and trade shows last 30 days as companies use B visas to enable foreign employees to work awhile in the U.S. I’m told that IBM sometimes platoons workers on B visas, sending them to places like Mexico for a short time then bringing them back across the border for another stint.
Tourist visas are also commonly abused even though they specifically prohibit work.
The more interesting question here isn’t which multinational corporations consistently abuse B and tourist visas but which ones don’t, it is so common.
A key argument for H-1B has always been that there’s a shortage of technical talent in U.S. IT. This has been taken as a given by both major political parties. But it’s wrong. Here are six rigorous studies (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) that show there is no shortage of STEM workers in the U.S. nor the likelihood of such a shortage in years to come.
You may recall a recent column here where the IT community in Memphis, TN proved there was no labor shortage in that technology hotbed.
The whole labor shortage argument is total hogwash. Yes, there is a labor shortage at substandard wages.
Can all of this be just about money? Yes.
The rules for H-1B visas state that they must be for technical positions for which there is no comparable U.S. citizen available and the position must pay the prevailing wage or higher.
It’s this definition of prevailing wage where we next see signs of H-1B abuse by employers. The intent of the original law was for companies not to use H-1B workers simply to save money. In the enabling legislation from 1990, however, there are two different definitions of the term “prevailing wage.” The first is quite strict while the second, which is used by self-certifying employers to set actual pay scales, has plenty of wiggle room.
Warning, dense reading ahead!
Here is the initial definition of “prevailing wage” in 8 USC 1182(n)(1)A)
- The employer
(i) is offering and will offer during the period of authorized employment to aliens admitted or provided status as an H–1B nonimmigrant wages that are at least
(ii) the actual wage level paid by the employer to all other individuals with similar experience and qualifications for the specific employment in question, or
(iii) the prevailing wage level for the occupational classification in the area of employment,
And here is the redefinition of “prevailing wage” in 8 USC 1182(p)(4):
(4) Where the Secretary of Labor uses, or makes available to employers, a governmental survey to determine the prevailing wage, such survey shall provide at least 4 levels of wages commensurate with experience, education, and the level of supervision. Where an existing government survey has only 2 levels, 2 intermediate levels may be created by dividing by 3, the difference between the 2 levels offered, adding the quotient thus obtained to the first level and subtracting that quotient from the second level.
Note that section (p) requires that the Department of Labor set up four prevailing wage levels based upon skill but section (n) only requires a prevailing wage for occupation and location. There is no statutory requirement that the employer pick the skill level that matches the employee.
Let’s see this in action. According to Bureau of Labor Statistics data, the mean wage for a programmer in Charlotte, NC is $73,965. But the level 1 prevailing wage is $50,170. Most prevailing wage claims on H-1B applications use the level 1 wage driving down the cost of labor in this instance by nearly a third.
If you were casually reading the statutes, by the way, you would never see this redefinition. That’s because section (p) does not refer to H-1B but rather to section (n) which is referenced by 8 USC 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b).
Got that?
But wait there’s more!
It’s not hard to suppose from this information that an influx of H-1B workers representing an average 20 percent of the local technical work force (those 500,000 H-1Bs against a 2.5 million body labor pool) would push down local wages. There’s plenty of anecdotal evidence that it does, too, but most of the more rigorous academic studies don’t show this because there is no easily available data.
What data is available comes from the initial employer applications for H-1B slots These Labor Condition Applications, called LCAs, include employer estimates of prevailing wages. Because there are always more H-1B applications than there are H-1B visas granted, every employer seeking an H-1B may file 3-5 LCAs per slot, each of which can use a different prevailing wage. But when the visa application is approved, it is my understanding that sponsoring companies can choose which LCA they really mean and apply that prevailing wage number to the hire.
Because the visa has already been granted of course they’ll tend to take the lowest prevailing wage number, because that’s the number against which they match the local labor market.
Remember that part of this business of getting H-1Bs is there must not be a U.S. citizen with comparable skills available at the local prevailing wage. If we consider that exercise using the data from Charlotte, above, a company would probably be seeking a programmer expecting $73,965 or above (after all, they are trying to attract talent, right?) but offering $50,170 or below (the multiple LCA trick). No wonder they can’t get a qualified citizen to take the job.
Based solely on approved LCAs, 51 percent of recently granted H-1B visas were in the 25th percentile for pay or below. That’s statistically impossible under the intent of the program.
We have no clear way of knowing what companies actually pay their H-1Bs beyond the LCAs, because that information isn’t typically gathered, but remember that whatever level it is won’t include benefits that can add another 30-40 percent to a U.S. citizen’s wage.
Here is the Government of India touting its H-1Bs as cheaper than U.S. workers, which of course they aren’t by law supposed to be.
I wish this was the extent of abuse, but it isn’t. A 2011 Government Accountability Office (GAO) study found that approximately 21 percent of H-1B visas are simply fraudulent — that the worker is working for a company other than the one that applied for the visa, that the visa holder’s identity has changed, that the worker isn’t qualified for H-1B based on skills or education, or the company isn’t qualified for the H-1B program.
H-1Bs, even though they aren’t citizens or permanent residents, are given Social Security numbers so they can pay taxes on their U.S. income. A study by the Social Security Administration, which is careful to point out that its job doesn’t include immigration monitoring or enforcement, found a number of H-1B anomalies, the most striking of which to me was that seven percent of H-1B employers reported no payments at all to H-1B visa holders. This is no big deal to the SSA because these people qualify for no benefits, but it makes one wonder whether they are under-reporting just Social Security or also to the IRS and why they might do so? Those H-1B employers who do report Social Security income do so at a level that is dramatically lower than one might expect for job classifications that are legally required to pay the “prevailing wage.”
Maybe at this point I should point out that the H-1B visa program is administered by the Department of Homeland Security. Feel better?
One defense of H-1B might be that it raises overall skill levels, but studies show H-1B employees to be consistently less capable than their U.S. citizen counterparts. This data point is especially interesting because it is drawn from the LCA data where applying companies claimed that 56 percent of H-1B applicants were in the lowest skill category and could therefore be paid the least. So at the same time companies are claiming they need the H-1B program to bring in skilled workers, the workers they are bringing in aren’t very skilled at all. Or if they are skilled, then the sponsoring companies are fudging their paperwork to justify paying lower than market wages.
Either truth is damning and the latter is downright illegal.
Here’s where I’ll give a shout-out to the Libertarian contingent reading this column because they’ll tend to say “So what? It’s every man or woman for himself. Employers should be able to do whatever they damned well please while workers can always go elsewhere.”
But it’s against the law.
At this point a longtime reader of this column speaks up:
“I have been a practicing immigration attorney for over 13 years. I have done many H-1B visas and like any other government program it was loaded and is still loaded with abuses… In my opinion, employers who need H-1B Visa workers should have to go through a screening process before they are allowed to submit the application and a bond should be posted if they violate the law.
“For a large multinational corporation to play this game is not new. The reason that they carry on with these activities are for one reason only — control. Control of the employee and uneven bargaining at the end of the day. I have dealt with this with different multinational corporations… and they have, can and will act in the same manner. As always, it takes either an investigation by the USDOJ or massive fines (or both) to redirect bad behavior to federal compliance.”
“Even if I wasn’t at ground zero in this stuff, it would still bother me,” wrote another longtime reader who has spent his entire career in IT. “Our country spent decades learning to treat workers fairly and with respect. The driving force behind unions in the first place was to address serious problems in the workplace. With all this offshoring and H-1B crap, we’ve dumped 100 years of improving society down the drain. Maybe USA workers do cost too much. The problem is we are not fixing the actual problem. As more and more jobs go off shore, the damage to our economy grows. If we would fix the problems the playing field would be more level and USA workers could compete for jobs. These abuses by corporations are not only hurting USA workers, they are hurting our nation.”
Using H-1Bs takes more bodies to do the same work to which must be added all the busywork of noncompliance. Gaming the system is far from effortless. In the end I think the savings to companies is minimal, perhaps even nonexistent, and the signal it sends to students is to study law instead of computer science.
Your lack of knowledge here is staggering.
Most IT companies struggle to find competent IT staff that are willing to work at the scale demanded for a 80kpa job.
I manage a team of 22 IT pros in Cary, 18 of who are from abroad, we looked for staff suitable for the role for over a year and hired the 4 applicants that applied fro the role. So now i have hired 18 immigrants who live in the US and contribute to its economy.
Do you know what the other options would have been?… To take the roles To Canada or South America where we wouldn’t have to deal with the nonsense involved in immigration here, loosing the US a few million bucks in tax revenue.
If people actually listened to you on this, thankfully they don’t, the US would never develop its tech infra base and it would entirely outsource to places like india, singapore and poland.
Obviously you did not look hard enough. We estimate over 1 million IT professionals in the US without a job, or with a part time job or collecting unemployment.
You may also try training an American, or is that too difficult for your company
Your lack of compassion for your fellow Americans is revolting. Your personal anecdote proves nothing other than that you were too cheap to train your own workforce or to pay the prevailing market-clearing wage for the skills you wanted. Furthermore, if you think it’s just as easy to manage people working in another country, then you are also clueless as a manager. I notice that your anecdote is swamped by all the anecdotes to the contrary posted by the other commentators here. Moving away from dueling anecdotes, you should know that studies have proven repeatedly that there is no IT worker shortage in the US. As just one example, a recent peer-reviewed research report makes it clear that the real motivation of companies like yours to hire foreign tech workers is to reduce labor costs and to exert more control over workers who are virtually “indentured” to the company. Source: http://essential.metapress.com/content/rr68515891n77336/fulltext.pdf
Yes, but how did you search for these workers? Did you use a recruitment firm? Like I say in my lengthy post below, I’m currently seeking work (in Delaware) and almost every recruiter with whom I correspond has an Indian name.
Many of these firms seem to be US satellite offices of Indian head offices and I’m pretty sure they make more money by finding someone from India that they can get in under an H1B than genuinely seeking or considering local applicants.
So I have little confidence that I will be considered and treated impartially when the system is dominated by Indian recruiters who we know account for a vast proportion of H1B workers who are Indian.
I naively expected to see e-mail addresses like hank@xyz.com or herbie@wxy.com or ralph@abc.net but incredibly almost every e-mail address I encounter when seeking a job are like: Anoop, Manish, Vaishnavi, Saini, Rajesh and so on – I’d expect this of course if I were living in India but I’m living in the USA.
Hugo
If you interview 50 people only 5 will be suitable for the work. Ultimately the employer is looking for skills not degrees.
May be you should contact Samantha Jeff (below); get a loan from a reliable lender and migrate to India
Frankloancompany@yahoo.com
Dear All,
This narrow minded article proved how dumb, ignorant, Pathetic, Racist you American folks are.. But really the comments and the article made me laugh , I enjoyed reading and yes I am Proud to be an Indian working in USA.
If I make you this jealous and make you think soo hard ,spend time researching about H1b then I Won.
No wonder why the whole world thinks ….Dumb,Fat,Arrongant Americans.
I work in Medical field in NY, I want to stress that Indians dominate in health care as well, more than 50% of the residents and Physicians are Indian( Brownies)
Now it’s time to improve your skills needed in IT field and compete with us or feel jealous all your life and die of hate and jealousy . Make the right choice..Best
Results.
Winner = Smart, Hard working Indian .
Loser = Dumb,lazy US born American.
The article Proves it.
Good luck ppl.
Based on your location – you must be working for SAS. Your location probably has something to do with your difficulty recruiting as well.
I’m on a floor at a bank right now that used to be all american folks – now they are all ‘consultants’ from a firm called Hexaware. Basic SQL development, ERP application administration, journal entries. The value of these guys to the bank is real – they will move anywhere, they will live 3 to a room, they will work nights and weekends. This is their value contribution over what the US resources would do.
Now – is it right? I don’t know…I do think Americans got complacent, demanding salaries over the value of their contributions to the organization. BUT – they are americans, and their country should look after them. Let’s just quit the dancing – WE NEED CHEAP LABOR in order to keep our product prices low. Sure, over time the middle class will dwindle but you need to appreciate that the US is leading the Globalization of the world – in a couple generations the economy we export here will become visible in India – and then we have a trading partner with more opportunities.
It is frustrating to see Gates saying theres a shortage of talent though – jesus – just say it, ‘I need Americans to work for less, but they won’t because they’re in debt from their university training, so please give me the alternative from India.’
Either your expectations have gotten so high owing to the huge number of FAKE resumes by indian consultants that you ignore the real resumes of U.S Nationals or you just don’t want to pay as much
I T Companies providing Visas for Indian workers is a scam. I have worked with I T workers from India, and find them very mediocre in their work. They have no idea of budget, quality or on time delivery. However, in exchange for a visa, they will work cheaply. Companies use the Visa as a recruiting tool. The USA is quickly going the way of the UK, Canada, even Scandanavia and when these people over run the country, take the government jobs that they seem to migrate to, take over the corner stores, gas stations, motels, basically all the cash businesses that they can avoid paying tax for, you will come to regret this Liberal notion. No one wants to appear racist, we have laws to prevent this. They know this and the laws and use them.
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I am a 58 year old software engineer with over 25 years experience in technology. There is a dirty little secret that these business people who claim they can’t find qualified locals to fill jobs, won’t tell you. They are rigging the process by setting the qualifications so high that almost nobody but a genius (eg. Alan Touring, Donald Knuth or Dennis Ritchie) is good enough to get the job. Requirements are so specific that in reality, the only candidate who could meet the qualifications is someone already on that team! But apparently if you are in Indian under 30 with no papers and willing to work 7 days a week for 20% less than average rate, they are happy to give you a waver on any qualifications you don’t have. As far as I know, software engineering is the only field where interviewees are expected to pass “white board” tests where we must write code by hand on a white board while watched by the interviewer. “I want to see how they solve problems on their feet” say some interviewers. These tests are NOTHING like real world developing and are there just to give the interviewer a way to do illegal screening of people deemed too old or of the wrong nationality (USA).
I was laid off and it took me 9 months just to find a contract job at 10K below what I was making fulltime. Looked at a ton of job postings with laundry lists of expert skills required which almost nobody will have such as expected an embedded developer to also be expert at internet programming… huh? Now, more than 50% of the software hiring managers are Indians and guess who they prefer to hire?
I recently saw a job posting that required 2-3 years experience minimum get filled by a Chinese guy who JUST graduated with his masters and has 0 years actual work experience. Why? Because he was willing to work for $10 an hour under the going rate. This is BS and you know what? It won’t last. After these greedy short sighted corporate suits kill our local high tech market (who will sweat thru the hell of engineering and go in debt to a college to get $30 an hour?) and then the Indians will get wise and demand more money or start their own companies in Bangalore, putting ours out of business!
H1 and L1 destroys the american middle class. Its only used to drive down wages by 30+%. Unemployment rate among US citizen tech workers is 10%. Underemployment rate (making less money then they would if there was no immigrant labor driving down wages) is 50%.
I lost my job in 2001 to someone here on an H1B VISA. I was called into my bosses office and told to meet my replacement. I was given two options, pack my desk and be gone within 10 minutes or spend the next two weeks with Raj and ‘show him the ropes’, give him passwords to servers, go over procedures, etc., then leave… With a gleam in his eye and a half smirk, my boss told me that Raj was willing to work for less than 50% of what I was being paid, and I was working part-time without benefits making $25/hr.
Then, more recently in 2009, I was having a lunch conversation with my coworker, Mohammad, where we were both complaining about lack of IT opportunities, both stuck in a low-paying, dead-end IT phone support position. I have a MS degree in IT and a stellar resume (and no felonies) and have been in and out of work since 2001. Mohammad was complaining bitterly in his a foreign accent that if he knew we were going to be “letting all these foreigners into the country” to take our IT jobs, he never would have come here in 1999. Sheesh…
I sure do feel your pain and my last thirteen years in IT has been very similar. If I could go back in time I definitely wouldn’t have blew money for my CIS/Computer Science degrees and went into a totally different career path. Working in IT is like working for the devil.
So you are saying that Raj got the job just because he agreed on a lower salary than you ….Was that the real reason? How about you not doing your job well enough and your employer finding someone else better than you ?
You(or your coworker) say that you have been in and out of jobs since 2001….well its high time you started thinking that you are the problem and not the other workers who get your job…you were given an opportunity but couldnt do your job well. If you are a smart guy(with an MS in IT..which is a piece of cake now-a-days) then finding a good job can be easy if you struggle hard and work hard..You fail to realize that at the same time there are H1Bs who lose their jobs too…so stop complaining and finding excuses….you work hard and you will be rewarded.
The fact is H1bs are more dedicated, hard working, result oriented and know at all times their ass is on the line,,so they are at their best performance..Also H1B workers pay the same taxes as any other citizen, but do not get the same tax returns…For example : a person on an H1b visa earning around 70K/year, paying taxes regularly will end up paying about $100 to the IRS while,, a citizen like you will actually get around $3000 in returns. Also, H1Bs spend more in the country, they shop a lot more, they have visitors visiting them a lot more and this increases tourism in the US ….Most of H1Bs were probably an F1 visa holder…Do you know on an average an international student pays around $40k for a Masters degree in the US?! And most or all of the school faculty are Americans…so in a way,,,immigrants are paying Americans and education has become a good business here..Due to which universities have more research grants, and contributes to better education facilities,better education overall ,,,which leads to better companies etc..its a cycle you wouldnt understand…If you cancel the H1b visas,,there will be not as many students coming in and if you were a professor in one of those universities, you would have had a different comment.
To some extent I agree it allows employers to find someone at a lower wage, but the benefits to the US economy is much more. Please work hard on your part and try to do better than the rest…..or be left behind.
Callistus,
I don’t care about school faculties, federal taxes, nor poor starving programmers on the subcontinent. Americsn workers work hard too and deserve some respect. When India allows Pakistanis to come work in their IT industry, I will support allowing Indian h1b’s to the United States. Till then, pleae stay home.
@Callistus: Dude you are eff’ed up. “The fact is H1bs are more dedicated, hard working, result oriented and know at all times their ass is on the line”. Are you stupid? If you read the details of H1-B requirements, you would know that they have to go back to India the moment they lose their job. So you’re glib crap ignores the fact that they are essentially indentured servants! And you want American workers to act the same way?
“To some extent I agree it allows employers to find someone at a lower wage, but the benefits to the US economy is much more. Please work hard on your part and try to do better than the rest…..or be left behind.” What inane bull*hit. Most of the 100’s of H1-B’s I had to work with as an independent contractor for over 20 years were, at best, “B” players. At best! Most were “C” and “D” players. And quite a lot of them were hired by other H1-B managers: yes, RACISM. I have to say I made a lot of money cleaning up the crap work those H1-B’s did, so the assertion that American workers are substandard by your snide comment is complete crap. I bet you are some bozo who has had the same job for some boring company for the last 15 years. You are a dying breed and will find out the hard way the next time you have to hit the street for a job.
It is ignorance like yours that lets this travesty continue. The really sad part about all this is that Cringley’s article could have been written 15 years ago and would still have been accurate.
I’m sorry you lost your job, but companies will always find ways to get a bang for their buck. Even if the wasn’t any such thing as an H1B visa program, your company might’ve still outsourced the job, therefore, you still would’ve lost your job anyway. This is just how the world is evolving and we have to adapt. When music streaming applications came out, Instead of music companies bitching about how they can no longer sell their CDs, they adapted to it. That’s just how the world works.
Yes, that’s true companies do find a way. Kaiser Permanente at one time (2005) had 9,000 IT professionals thoughout the US, mostly in California. All making good salaries and spending money, on homes and cars ect, and paying both federal and state taxes. By 2009 the last 900 IT professionals were shipped out to IBM India.
That’s 9000 US jobs shipped overseas in just 7 years, by Kaiser Permanente.
Thousands of US companies have repeated these actions with the sanctions of the US Chamber of Commerce and the Department of Labor. So we have learned one thing. Bribery works!!!
Understand that the US Chamber of Commerce is a private trade organization with most major companies as members. It is not a US government agency. Just like the Federal Reserve Bank is a privately held banking corporation.
I lost three of my engineering jobs to H-1Bs. I tried for years to obtain jobs in engineering but only received a few calls for possible jobs after the H-1B visa quotas were filled by October 3rd just a few days after the H-1B hiring takes place every year. Politicians and corporate lobbyists want us techies to fail. So I then went to Italy and sold two of my nano technology patents to a start up company there. So I am making sure that my patented technology is never touched by an H-1B on US or any other soil. Italy will be in the forefront of nano technology with my patents and other US ccitizens patents. I am being compensated for my patents through a foreign financial setup where no USA taxes are paid. By doing that I also am eligible and collect $17,000 of public assistance from the USA federal government every year. So if you have been adversely affected by the H-1B program and you have technical skills going to waste then do something similar to what I have done, it is all legal, I consulted with several patent and overseas financial attorneys before I made the decision to do this.
So without the H-1B program I would be putting my nano technology patents and expertise to good use for the USA economy and technological advancements. I would be paying approximately $27,000 in federal taxes each year, and another $7,000 in state taxes.
With the H-1B program I pay no taxes, instead have the US government pay me $17,000 every year. I am busy working with my patents with the Italians.
So thank you USA politicians for your corrupt ties to greedy corporations that hire H-1B foreign visa workers to replace us techies. Because of you I am way ahead and YOU are falling behind.
My wife recently investigated the possibility of getting a career in IT. One of the steps she took was to call around about education programs. She found several IT management programs and turned those down because she has no programming experience and feels she should actually learn to program and spend some time doing it before presuming to manage programmers.
Other people don’t feel the same way. The schools offering management programs assured her that she does not need to be a programmer to be an IT manager. The point? The core of Callistus’ argument is that Dan R. must have not been an effective employee. Maybe he wasn’t or maybe he was, but was his boss from one of the IT management programs – and did he have pointy hair like the Dilbert boss? Was Dan’s boss competent enough to even understand whatever Dan did as an employee?
In the 1990s, the go-go years of the dot com – these may have been necessary. It’s a bit unfortunate, but some of the “demands” of individuals may be too high for the market place at this point. I was in Nor Cal when the dot com era blew up. What happened was, hundreds and hundreds of firms laid people off, and those in certain fields still expected to get the $250K starting salary and Ferraris as bonuses.
The market changed immediately. There was a glut of people, and those still in certain fields were angry because they wouldn’t accept the fact that this glut of individuals had caused a “correction” in the salaries. And there are others that seem, frankly, upset they missed the dot com bubble and refuse to accept the reality.
There are shortages in areas, such as Oracle DBAs, mPX, SharePoint specialists, JAVA, SAP and PeopleSoft programmers, etc. If you don’t follow/update your skills to where the demand is – that is a problem – and will stunt your positions. Another problem is some people won’t move to where some of these jobs are. Their states have been gutted by liberal policies and companies have moved.
I don’t think this problem is as black and white as some want to claim it is.
Do we have a problem? Maybe. If we want to truly find out if these companies are telling the truth, since they’re the ones looking to bring in IT talent – maybe they should be made to advertise the job running it through this government agency. Publish the job, the salary, and have the resumes sent to this agency, and let the company justify to this agency why they won’t accept the Americans/legal individuals already here before being granted an H1-B visa for that talent.
This would immediately produce large amounts of data which we could accurately judge whether we have a shortage or not. Or, was the company looking for a talent that couldn’t migrate (can’t change jobs if a company sponsors you). . . .or is the company just looking to run down the wages.
Let’s stop having the conversation in a vacuum and start demanding data/proof to justify what both sides are saying. This would satisfy both sides, and establish if what either side is saying is accurate.
As a professional with 20 years experience in Industrial Automation let me tell you not only here but in every country is very difficult to find talented people. Here and in other countries you can find the typical techy worker, in your words, irresponsible, not motived, willing to leave 4pm after spending the day in drinking coffee and eating donuts in several breaks.
Demand of skilled people is a phenomena no country can avoid
Nonsense!
You should not be writing this article because apparently, you have no clear knowledge about this topic at all. The O Visa requires something like – A) an actor with who won an Academy Award, B) An author who won a Pulitzer Prize. As we all know, there is no such equivalent for every kind of industry, therefore, there is no choice but to put the employee under the H1B visa program. Do not blame it on the H1B holders. Blame it on the broken immigration laws.
Cringely is right, and you are wrong about the O visa. O-1 visas are given to those in IT fields “of extraordinary ability” (e.g., those with CS or EE doctorates with a long publication or patent history who are considered authorities in their fields) ALL THE TIME. They truly are BY DEFINITION the “best and brightest” – and there is no limit to the number that a company can hire. So they already have unlimited access to the world’s “best and brightest”. The H-1B visa is specifically for workers with as little as a bachelor’s degree who work in designated specialty occupations – in the case of the IT industry, this includes ordinary college grad programmers, analysts, and engineers. They are by definition NOT the “best and brightest.” On the related point of whether IT companies want H-1B workers because they are so much more “innovative,” peer-reviewed research shows that they are not, nor is there a domestic shortage of qualified workers. Rather, the research shows that the real motivation is to reduce labor costs and to exert more control over workers who are virtually “indentured” to the company. Source: http://essential.metapress.com/content/rr68515891n77336/fulltext.pdf
Hi;
I came from the UK under a H1B in 2002, my skills were in a very specialized area of IT and there was simply no local skills available. I myself had trouble hiring for these skills when I was managing in the UK.
The application process was arduous and I did almost all of it myself, they needed all kinds of paperwork including evidence that the prospective employer had not been able to find local skills. It was pretty clear (I thought) that only unusual skillsets and genuine applicants would get admitted, just as we see with American engineers, bankers, professors etc. seeking work in the UK.
But since I’ve been here (I did marry but that was never expected, my H1B employer offered a green card anyway) I’ve seen what seems to be an abuse of the H1B system. I’m seeing lots of people from India using H1B for roles that require pretty ordinary skills, for example C#, SQL, Linux or VB programmers are not rare skills, they are amongst the most common skillsets in programming.
I just don’t understand how common up to date technical skills justify any need for H1B workers, and why are so many of them from India I wonder? Well India has a surplus and there are many staffing firms from India operating in the US – just try applying for an IT job here !
Almost every name I encounter when I apply for work here through agencies is clearly Indian, so there is a disproportionate representation not only of Indian programmers but Indian recruiters.
The H1B should ONLY be issued if an employer can PROVE that there are genuine difficulties in getting skills locally and only after some evidence of that has been presented should a H1B be considered.
But frankly I just don’t see that, I’ve seen jobs offered that unashamedly say “H1B applicants welcome” BUT that is an abuse of H1B, because a genuine demonstrable NEED for it MUST precede any consideration of it.
Of course the employers here are the Indian run recruiting firms who have streamlined the process of getting H1B’s and I suspect they have a vested self-interest in sending a worker from India under an H1B.
This means that legitimate workers in the US (which includes me because I became a resident quite legally and have always respected and obeyed the rules) may be at a disadvantage when low-cost skills from India are in an advantageous position and it should be stopped,
There are many many thousands of US workers and young people who’d love to work in the IT field but they can’t get trained because few firms actually do train, some form of apprenticeship would be wonderful.
It’s all about employers reducing costs, IT as a career is beginning to suck – despite all of the years of effort and training the H1B abuse undermines it, IT is hard enough as it is because it changes so rapidly but to add the extra abuse of flooding the market with cheap labor is sad, makes me wonder if the US is going to become like the UK.
Imagine the US was hiring hundreds of thousands of Indian lawyers under H1B to fill legal jobs in the US, you can bet that something would be done about that pretty quickly!
Hugo
I am currently seeking a contract or full-time role as a developer and I am just amazed at how many of the names and agencies that I deal with are Indian (presumably):
e.g.
Saxon Global – has a Bangalore office – agents have Indian names. http://www.saxonglobal.com/
FCS – Head Office – Uttar Pradesh – Indian – http://www.fcsltd.com/index.htm
IDC Technologies – has office in India – agent is Indian: http://www.idctechnologies.com/index.php
Boston Technology only lists a US Office, agent is clearly Indian. http://www.boston-technology.com
Tekis Hub has office in UAE: http://www.tekishub.com
Auritias – ne mention of India office, agent is clearly Indian name: http://www.auritas.com
Pyramid Consulting has India office and agent clearly has Indian name: http://www.pyramidci.com
Themesoft has India office, agent clearly has Indian name: http://www.themesoftinc.com
Sunittech has India office, agent clearly has Indian name: http://www.sunittech.com
Anblicks has three India offices, the agent has Indian name: http://www.anblicks.com
I could go on, I really could but this surely conveys something? Over 90% of the agencies sending me e-mail (like tech fetch, career builder, jobsite and all the rest) have an office in India and/or the contact name for a job is an Indian (apparently) name.
Every day I get a few e-mails because I’ve registered at techfetch and career builder etc, yet almost every single one is an Indian named contact from an agent who has an office in India – the US offices may or may not simply be registered corporate addresses – nothing more than mailboxes for all I know.
Foreigners dominate the software recruitment business in the USA – this is a plain deduction from the facts at hand.
How did this happen? what assurances are there that these firms behave ethically and do not favor Indian candidates who may want to transfer a H1B Visa.
From what I’ve read a H1B “transfer” is actually a fresh application for a H1B Visa BUT WITHOUT BEING SUBJECT TO ANY CAP – get that bit?
If some of these firms have H1B staff working in the USA who want to change jobs or are approaching the end of their contract, then these firms might have streamlined the H1B “transfer” process and be able to favor these candidates over US candidates because the profits are better.
This is just a suspicion of course, I have no evidence – but living in the USA – the home of high technology and software innovation – its very disheartening to see the recruitment industry dominated by Indians running Indian firms.
100% of initial H1B visas for foreign doctors are fraudulent.
…..Each year the U.S. government pays $100,000 each for 26,000 new medical residencies for medical school graduates to complete specialized training at teaching hospitals located throughout the United States. Out of the $100,000 the U.S. government funds, $50,000 is a salary paid to the doctors. In 2013, 17,487 U.S. medical school graduates, 2677 U.S. osteopathic medical school graduates and 5,095 U.S. citizen and permanent residents who graduated foreign medical schools (25,259 total) applied for the 26,000 positions. All graduates had to have their credentials verified and pass two separate competency exams in order to apply. 1,100 U.S. medical school graduates and 2,300 U.S. citizen and permanent residents who attended foreign medical schools were not offered U.S. taxpayer funded training/jobs in the United States. Out of the excess 741 positions, foreign medical school graduates managed to obtain 5,000 U.S. taxpayer funded residencies at a salary of $50,000 per year.
……4,400 of these U.S. citizen and permanent resident graduates who had their credentials verified and passed competency exams were deemed “not qualified” for training.
……What would we do without the H1B visa?
I am an H1b . I cannot agree to all that the author is trying to say. There is half truths in it. But I stress that you may have millions STEM people , but how many of them are employable is a big question mark. Without skills degrees are useless.
Hi,
I am an H1B visa holder. And to be truthful, I do not have any extraordinary skills that an American worker won’t have. The logic is simple. Profit. We are made to slog and we do so, dreaming of earning in dollars.And with the current conversion rate, people are happy when they convert their earnings to Indian currency. Outsourcing is ,in my limited experience, a profit making machinery. I might be wrong. But in simple terms,thats what it is. A simple example. US engineers and IT people have created companies like google, Microsoft etc. Indian tech guys create companies that service the American companies. Period. Well, there have been cases when Indian like Sabeer Bhatia ,who founded msn , have created more jobs for Americans. But I guess that’s a one off case.
Hi
I stumbled upon your post while doing some general research about my H1B visa.
I share your concerns because i may be a future american, but if you are true American then you should already know the American philosophy, what happnes on this land, new blood comes replaces old blood , it does not matter from where new blood comes. This is simply a nature in America ,and thats how it prosper. now i on my part have choice to accept it or not. but born citizen dont have any choice. sometime we have to accept some norm the way our environment is.
In my native country, india , the reason why we are so much behind of world is that we do not easily allow newcomers to come in. We expelled Britisher out, fought with them, but rather if we would have collaborated with them ,negotiated with them then may be today india would have been at least somewhere close to developed country.
Also some one above in his post said ,all the recruiters are indian, so my question is why the heck an American who does not have job, can join this indian recruiting company. That Indian company would be glad to keep you as recruiter, because you have english as your native language. I am not getting why an American can’t be recruiter.
Same for H1B’s too, Why a good american programer who has lost his job can’t apply in indian IT company, or altogher why he can’t be made as Manager in indian IT company. Just on the basis that you have some idea that all Indian work on cheap rates, thats totaly wrong. H1Bs are not allowed to work on low rates. there is a mimimum wage rate , i guess 80K / YR.
I have worked with American programers ,some are really good. but not everyone is good. and the one who are good, they dont really want to do day to day crap IT job. rather they will spent time at knowing it at broad level. Will not do low level , crappy stuff. Just be honest.
Since you brought up Microsoft as an example… I was formerly an H1B employee at Microsoft. I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that H1Bs at Microsoft (and the same is true, based on my experience and anecdotal knowledge from friends, at Google, Amazon, Apple, etc…) are compensated exactly the same as their American counterparts. So, at least as it relates to these companies, the argument for “profit” is completely baseless.
Another baseless argument is saying that there is “no shortage of STEM workers” in the IT field. The fact that you are using an umbrella-term like “IT field” means that you have no clue at all about the field. I don’t doubt that there are plenty of workers who can do IT-stuff – this is hardly a qualification that top tech companies, like Microsoft, are looking for. They are looking for tech ninjas – those, who wouldn’t even call themselves as being in the IT industry for the risk of being confused with the mob of mediocrity.
I can’t deny that there are companies that try to circumvent the intent of this visa program. Where there is a monetary incentive there is someone to take advantage of it. In fact, they are the bane of the top companies attempts to bring talent because they take a portion of the H1B caps. The proper approach is not to cancel the H1B program, but rather to find ways to combat the problem. And, in parallel, increase the caps because the economic benefit of supporting top world-leading tech companies far outweighs the problems created by outsourcing companies. In fact, I would go as far as saying that if your job is outsourced with such ease, you should consider this an early warning and start changing your career path.
Until then, companies like Microsoft would open satellite offices in Canada (as they did in Vancouver, BC) with the tax revenue that could have gone to US. Then, you also have to consider the auxiliary effects of a high concentration of tech talent, like the emergence of strong startup scene, which leads to a virtuous cycle.
This.
Similar situation, originally from UK at top university, H1-B at large tech company in California after interning. Paid at least as much as American peers (6 figure salary, generous benefits). I am valuable because of my niche experience there.
There is clear abuse from Indian “IT Consulting” companies which grab a huge number of H1Bs each year, and the outsourcing that goes to them — I fully agree with this. But, you cannot make sweeping generalizations, as many of us are here for our talent, and do not drive down wages.
The focus must be on eliminating abuse in the system — see skilled immigration (points-based) in various EU countries for examples.
there are things in IT jobs those are completely absent in your conversations:
1-Training is very useful for junior level, while there are terms can not be taught above that, like experience and passion that lead to creativity, they are more like a gift.
2-Considering above, it is very worthy for me to be an indie developer and sell software directly to American companies rather than be in a limited salary and paying multiple big taxes in USA, (am not American and don’t live in the states by the way).
3-There are strong competitors for almost all American software companies worldwide, and w/o O visa or other bureaucratic nominations, American IT companies will face one of the possibilities:loosing global domination, opening in another country and in either way you will loose the industry.
Why are the H1Bs so afraid of competition? The Indian H1Bs are indentured slaves. Let them start their own companies in India.
If this is a level playing field, just require any company that wants to hire an H1B to advertise for 30 days, document the position and skills they are looking for. Let Americans see the jobs and then require the companies to document what skills they are unable to hire for.
It would solve the problem. US workers can compete with anyone. The H1B program is a scam to get cheaper labor.
One problem we do have is we are a heterogenous culture and are willing to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt. Indians take this and screw us. Try to find an Indian H1B that speaks badly of another Indian. It doesn’t happen. They take care of each other. Once Indian H1Bs are part of the company the culture is ruined and slowly will transition to all Indian.
Dear you seem to be thoroughly frustrated and lost hopes. No one can stop talent. Bill gates was school drop out. When USA started globalisation why now repent . Globalisation is only for your products to sell not for labor migration? Why US MNC hire costly American labor and compete in backward countries when they can outsource to cheap labor? Other way is to send work offshore and set up factories in China, India ,Bangladesh. That is what your MNCs are doing. Then you wont even get consumer dollars too and your retail chains like Wal-Mart will perish and more job.You must sit in drivers seat to understand this. Think like Bill gates or Obama. Why American labor gets 50000 Dollars a year on average when in India it is just 900$. So big difference. Obviously there will be migration attempts. Let USA change its policies and let third world countries develop then no one would want to go to USA. Who wants to leave his motherland and go in alien land? So always big picture in mind. Your leaders like President and MNC CEOs are not traitors and damned fools like you guys think out of frustration. Train yourself for new careers if you cant compete.
I am an H1B , payed well above Industry average ,I do not think I have any special technical skills.I quit my first job for a better paying job , but later my first company called me back with a much higher offer and my current company (i stayed there only for 8 months ) agreed to pay 20 % more .. seeing this I assume that there is something special with me 🙂 .. Initially I was under the assumption that I am paid a minimum wage , but later on i started checking the industry average and I found that my previous salary itself was 10 to 20 % higher than most comparable jobs .
Now I beleive that companies keep their H1bs not because they are cheap but may be they add the expected value or even more to the work they do .(By the way I make sure I work only 8 hours or less on a productive day or 9 hours on a not so productive day ).
I do not intend to say that H1bs are superior workers , but rather wanted to assert that they are in no way inferior when it comes to the skills demanded for H1b jobs.
I am pretty sure the american youth is well aware of the fact that their jobs are at stake , when applicants are from around the world , and I believe they are good enough to stand the competition .
The author is biased and obviously full of wrong information ….. “The most common way, in fact, for converting an H-1B visa into a green card is through marriage to a U.S. citizen.” …LOL .. He is a funny guy, how many of H1Bs marry citizen ? …He is full of wrong figures…btw H1B can get job only when there is an ad for ten (10) consecutive business days in two conspicuous locations such as notice boards…and there is no job applicant….
Someone might have lost job and accusing cheap labor was a reason….But if employer really wants cheap labor then they will try someone from Africa or South America…Why H1B since H1B salary has a minimum salary limit…?
[…] read the concern, which despite being written as it is, still demonstrates accurate concerns: I, Cringely What Americans don't know about H-1B visas could hurt us all ~ I, Cringely And for the record Bonita, your post doesn't make much sense in line with this debate. My post […]
Over the last decade, jobs that required basic skills that were traditionally filled by H1Bs have been outsourced completely. Although there are exceptions , H1Bs hired these days do represent the cream of the crop. You are most likely to encounter a Stanford engineering PhD working at Apple on machine vision or a recent Wharton graduate working for Mckinsey & Co. These candidates are highly prized mostly due to the selectivity of the graduate programs they attended. To put this in perspective, Stanford statistics department admitted 1 student from United States last year out of a total of 300 who applied. Facebook and Google each hired 2 engineers right out of top undergraduate programs in India for $250,000/yr on H1Bs. Clearly the wages are not low and no, they do not do grunt work.
The author’s argument makes sense for the period of time until 2004, but since then outsourcing has accelerated to the point now that these corporations find places like India and China far to expensive and are looking at other Asian, South American and African countries.
am so happy so I need to pay for H1b Visa Attorney Fee is only $1550.
I think New H1B cap opens on April 1, 2014. As the economy continues to improve, we anticipate that (just like 2013) the H1B petitions may go into random lottery selection. If you want to increase your chances of making it into the forthcoming H1B cap, you must start your application process NOW!.
Thanks so much for your time and consideration.
Kind regards,
Abraham Welday,
P.O.Box 1037
Email: abrahamwel22@gmail.com or
abraham302@yahoo.com
Addis bababa, Ethiopia
There’s no doubt abuses in H1-B. However, a fair number of H1-B holders become permanent residents and productive members of society. I came to US from Canada on H1-B for an EE job. I stuck around and eventually got my greencard, and master degree at Stanford. I’ve been through a few startups and paid in excess of a million in tax over the years.
For people like me, H1-B is the only path for skilled workers to become US citizen. US is a country of immigrants, starting from the founding fathers. There’s always tendency for old immigrants to push away new immigrants. The challenge that we have here, is to really weed out the lower skill works who have no chance (because of employer abuse) of getting a green card.
I am u.s citizen, I work in it company It is painful to work with H1b workers, they often tries to show u.s. Citizen workers that they are very skilled full, when you tries to ask them something, they will not help you, because you are not Indian, These Indiana people only help themselves, I feel so bad working with some of them, specially IBM consultant. They think they are something, I wish u.s. Makes very less quotas for this H1b, specially they need to stop bringing people from India, u.s. Have to make certain ways that citizens can get such training at university, so they can be a very good work force, there is so many graduates are sitting at home not working because they don’t have experience or skills, if those graduates can get such training, they can be good workforce and.great tax payer,
[…] So if there is no shortage of US workers for high tech jobs, why the agitation to remove caps on a visa that isn’t needed? […]
I trained my H1B replacements who made $7/hr and were low-skilled, while my employer got tax breaks for off-shore development! They said we would still be good in the service industry, but now I make 1/3 of what I used to – I want my IT job back!
No H1B employee is paid 7$ per hour.
USCIS is not foolish to allow H1B workers to get that low salary.
Even house maids earn more than that. U have no clue abt H1B wages.
If you get replaced by that salary, it mean you contribute much less than 7$ per hour.
Good luck.
Over 10 years ago we were a newly-acquired company by GE, and I was privy to a meeting by a member describing why we are outsourcing our IT.
“They have more skilled workers (bull; they had no network, infrastructure, SQL, or IBM DB2 experience), they cost less (very much true), and everyone is doing it (no kidding, this person said that last statement verbatim)”.
I was told years later by an HR rep that if you are an American, you cannot be a coder or a business analyst working in IT at GE.
These statements prove to me that it really has nothing to do a shortage of workers, but it’s just cost-effective. Period. Businesses are in business to make money, period. Best way to make money is reduce cost.
My wife works for a top tier consulting company and her office is overrun with h1B resources. They come in late, take long lunches, and leave before the Americans. They speak their native language so that the Americans do not know what they are talking about. She has enforced standards of behavior with her team, but others do not. What started as a US work force in the late 1990’s, is now targeted to be 95% outside the US, and 5% in US – with half of those jobs being H1B visa people. Americans are being laid off as I write this, to be replaced with H1B people. Do you get this – it has nothing to do with skills. And they will not get severence pay if they do not train their replacements. The Americans have skills, have experience, work ethic, and are talented people. They are just not cheaper than the offshore people.
Frankly, this program needs to STOP and we need to hire American.
I work in IT & have for 20+ years. I work for a US company where most of its income is from the US. My income has been stagnant for the last 7 years. More than 50% of those I work with are foreign born & work either in the US or India. Most of those who are foreign born and living in the US are not citizens. Over the years the make up of managers has changed from those born in this country to those born in Asian countries (India being the most common). Communication is a challenge. Not only because of accents, but because few are able to speak or write grammatically correct English. They speak their native tongue with one another without regard for others. Those of us born & raised in the US don’t dare speak up or complain about the difficulties of communication due to retaliation. My immediate team consists of 7 onshore & about the same number of offshore in India. Only two are US born (including myself). The other US born will be retiring this year & his job is being transitioned to an offshore worker in India. When he retires I will not only be the only US born on the team, but the oldest. The most productive team member is the one who is retiring this year. In my experience, those born in the US work the longest hours. All workers seem to arrive about the same time, but at the end of the day it’s the US born workers that remain after hours. Those foreign born never seem to miss their breaks, where working through lunch is common for the US born. I use to put the extra effort in, but when I realized it wouldn’t get me anywhere, I stopped. My son decided not to go into IT and is working towards being a CPA because it’s very difficult if you a born in the US & not of Asian decent to get a job in IT. There is a serious misconception that Asian workers are better than US citizens. That simply is not true. My personal observations are actually the opposite. Wages in IT have remained stagnant & possibly declined due to non-US citizen workers being willing to accept less to get in the door & offshoring of jobs. Managers are rewarded for reducing costs which is being done by offshoring jobs to India. It’s easier for managers originally from India to offshore there because they know the language & culture. The economy of both India & the Philippines has vastly improved over the last few years in large part to offshoring to those countries & citizens of those countries coming here for work. Much of what they earn is sent home. I don’t fault those making a better life for themselves & moving here for work, I fault the US government for being short sighted & not putting US citizens first.
Fourteen years in IT and my skills in everything IT related has grown many fold yet I still struggle to find the next position but I have managed to do so. However, my wage has stayed practically the same. They want people with 6-8 years experience in 6-12 areas these days but they still want to pay you $20-$25 an hour for that. What is stagnating the compensation level? I know if isn’t my skill set and capabilities. Like so many on here I have been displaced numerous times because of HB-1 visa employees. I also think they are partly responsible for the stagnation in my earning potential. Retrospectively I don’t see any incentive to spend the money (get in debt) to earn that CIS/MIS/CS degree and the give up your weekends and nights to stay on top of technology to make a go at IT as a career. It isn’t the American employees incompetence that is causing the void in IT talent in this country, it is managements short sightedness on making profit by hiring less skilled and dedicated foreigners that will work for less. Everything isn’t equal when you hire people from India you introduce communications issues within your workforce as well. You also introduce a dynamic of non-cohesion because from my experience the Indian worker doesn’t intrinsically treat the American worker as a cohort they treat them as advisories. Most American’s understand the idealism of the melting pot philosophy and respect it because we where raised with that idealism. HB-1 visa employees have no conception of it. Unfortunately my advise to younger people is not to get into my field and that is a big shame.
I read all the above comments with amusement. One thing all of you must admit that economics has its own force and MNCs of US are most corrupt and devil organisations. They have minted money in India and do that in USA. USA championed WTO and free migration of finance & Technology and products but not labour. May I ask American workers, why? So what is to your advantage and ensures your luxurious lifestyle is okay, eh? Rest is all bulls…..In globalised economy where governments cant even put tariff barriers, factors of production and finance will move where it can deliver maximum returns. You guys keep pulling your hair. No one gives a damn. IBM or GE. Period. Just pull up your socks and get ready to work hard and expect lesser wages.H1B visa holders spend 80% income in USA only and pay taxes. They slog. Your many jobs and industry has gone to China and will go more if you guys don’t wake up. So think fairly and keep all perspectives in view. Fuming and fretting wont help. If China, India close their doors to US products and MNCs, USA will come down on knees. If you can import a cheaper commodity from India or Philippine why not labour? tell me? End user or customer does not give a damn who assembled the product-Chinese, Indian or American. She will only see quality and price. USA CAN ONLY SURVIVE if their work force becomes highly skilled and produce goods and services that developing countries cant. There is no other way left. Frankly speaking being an engineer myself with 40 years standing I could never understand why these IT Geeks and nerds get so high salaries. That is plain stupid. In my opinion 90% IT guys don’t deserve more than 50KPA. The average US salary per capita
Such a short minded article and pathetic comments. I was hired by a US based company under an H1B visa to develop sustainability consulting services and help US companies export products overseas. After two years I developed enough business to hire two resources (US citizens) to reinforce the team. In such a globalized economy, H1B visa holders also help creating connections with foreign countries and help American companies expanding overseas. In the US the unemployment rate of citizens holding a Bachelor degree is below 4% (3.4% for holders of a master degree). It is 11% for people that just graduated high school. https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
This means that there are jobs out there for people that attained a high educational level and that are willing to work. It is inaccurate to say that H1B visa holders take the jobs of US citizens. H1B visa holders are autonomous and they pay taxes. They are also a window on the world, they bring their culture, language which give some opportunities for other people to open their mind and share experiences. H1B immigrants are a chance for this country.
When tech company CEO says “There’s a shortage of technical talent in U.S. IT.” It actually means “there’s a shortage of technical talent in U.S. IT. that is willing to work for a 40k to 60k annually.” The more H1bs you get into this country, the lesser we need to pay the American born programmers, because we can scare them off showing we can get talented coders from elsewhere.
Whether you’re US citizen or not, the only thing I learned about American workplace is that qualification to fill your position and strive everyday to keep you qualified will only be your skills! .. if you have a masters degree and can’t do OOAD end to end, then you are not useful to the business, if you are high school graduate and can develop and write code, and test it, and deploy it, they you’ll always find people who look for you. The field in IT which attracts most professionals is programming and writing code, and I see many Americans don’t like to do it, they hate Math and hate to code, and only thing they want is to be managers.
I have come here for my masters in computer science, my undergrad is also in CS, I paid 40K to get my degree here, no loans, no sh**t, and before I even graduate I was offered 2 positions, including a TA position in the university itself, and all of them were ‘programmers’ positions, for 6 years I have never worked with an American programmer,
The story might be different with other IT fields, where most Americans.
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My name is Samantha Jeff, I am from the Texas, United State, am here to testify of how i got my loan from Mr Andre Frank {frankloancompany@yahoo.com} after i applied Two times from various loan lenders who claimed to be lenders right in this forum,i thought their lending where real and i applied but they never gave me loan. I was in need of an urgent loan to start a business and i applied from various loan lenders who promised to help but they never gave me the loan.Until a friend of mine introduce me to Mr Andre Frank the C.E.O of Andre Frank Loan Company who promised to help me with a loan of my desire and he really did as he promised without any form of delay, I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders until i met Mr Andre Frank, who really help me with my loan and changed my lief for better. I don’t know if you are in need of an urgent loan, free feel to contact Mr Andre Frank on his email{ Frankloancompany@yahoo.com} for help
This is nothing but our U.S. Govenment’s fault for making this happen. My company even bought an IT company in India to send IT jobs there. My company is a U.S. govt contractor and has project work done off-shore in India. It is a shame that our own gov’t. allows that thier project work sent to India and not to its citizens here. My company is basically left with “Managers, Liasons, coordinators” in United States. The real work is being done in India, which is subpar. But hey! as long the company saves millions.
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My name is Antoni Bolek and i am from poland , warsaw. after randomly searching online for things about accerdited online loan lenders i found this article about the Queeneth Stark Loan Agency which stated on how the Queeneth Stark Loan Agency has been of great help to others who were in need of loan both in time past and in the now . its crazy that i got scammed of $ 3000 Dollars by an online loan lender in time past and this was why i became even more careful this time in getting this my student loan as i needed to contiune my education at all cost by getting a loan from any legit and accredited online lender because my dad is late and my mum was financially unstable to take up with my educational expenses because i had my youngers once whom she was catering for . i decided to apply with this loan agency of a loan amount of $25 ,000.00 United State Dollars becauswe i was in desperate need of a loan but amazingingly and by the grace of God almighty in heaven .. i got this loan funds swiftly and immediately after the completion of my application process and this is why i want to reccomend this loan council to every one on this forum who are also in dire need of loan too just as the way i was some few months ago and there email address is here just incase you wanna contact them too for any type of loan mrsqueenethstarkloanagency@admin.in.th
My name is Antoni Bolek and i am from poland , warsaw. after randomly searching online for things about accerdited online loan lenders i found this article about the Queeneth Stark Loan Agency which stated on how the Queeneth Stark Loan Agency has been of great help to others who were in need of loan both in time past and in the now . its crazy that i got scammed of $ 3000 Dollars by an online loan lender in time past and this was why i became even more careful this time in getting this my student loan as i needed to contiune my education at all cost by getting a loan from any legit and accredited online lender because my dad is late and my mum was financially unstable to take up with my educational expenses because i had my youngers once whom she was catering for . i decided to apply with this loan agency of a loan amount of $25 ,000.00 United State Dollars becauswe i was in desperate need of a loan but amazingingly and by the grace of God almighty in heaven .. i got this loan funds swiftly and immediately after the completion of my application process and this is why i want to reccomend this loan council to every one on this forum who are also in dire need of loan too just as the way i was some few months ago and there email address is here just incase you wanna contact them too for any type of loan mrsqueenethstarkloanagency@admin.in.th
Hi ,
My name is Ahana Enaney from ireland.
If getting a legit loan online was that easy as stated in all this frabicated loan testimonies that i have been reading through online , then why were my husband and I turned down for a loan online twice after been scammed of about $16,000 United State Dollars ? We the loan seekers are the common regular victims of this fake loan stories simply because we are in dire needs we believe in their stories out of despiration to get a loan, but at the end of it all we find out that we have gained nothing but rather loosed the little we have into the hands of this online scammers who claim to be real lenders .the lenders told us to pay some few amount for insurance because they said that we were high risk!! How is that? I still don’t understand how!! how can a lender be requesting several fees from a borrower ? if that borrower was having money would he or she have come along to ask for a loan ?? those lenders decieved my husband and i of getting a loan and we thought it was all real because we never believed that there was anytime as an online loan scam and they had all pay all we had to them and due to the way things were moving we had to close out our buisness over here in ireland as we could not meet up with the customers needs any longer because we sold all most every single goods we had and we could not replace them as we thought that we could do so if we get our requested loan amount … yes !! we were scammed by two different lenders online ! a customer who was also a closed friend to the family saw the way things were so bad and decided to introduce us to a loan company but we refused any further loan offer because we had conluded that all of them were scams but he insisted as he opened up of getting a loan from them but we believed him at a spot after he opened up because we knew himfrom the onset to be a man of unquestionable character who was always known for his words and we applied with this company that he called THE WINONA MILLARAY LOAN FOUNDATION but prior to our application with this email address : winonamillarayloanfoundation@linuxmail.org , that he provided to us we quickly lookup this loan company in google so that we could be sure that they were legit .. yes !! it was to my own satisfaction and i applied but God was so kind that he lead us through and we got our loan .. Oh well, I’m just glad that we got our loan without been scammed or any stress .
Ahana Enaney from ireland and you can reach me on my official email address ahanaenaney@gmail.com.
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Who is this man?
I couldn’t go past 3 paragraphs as his facts are totally incorrect. More they are in coherent. He does not even know that H1B are converted in GC and do not need marriage here. In that case no H1B will be required in 1st place.
Completely useless. Not worth spending time.
ATTENTION! IMPORTANT INFORMATION! PLEASE READ
Greetings everyone. My name is Bryce knorr. I am a customer relation officer at KIVA GLOBAL FINANCE. I only came here to thank all our customers globally who have taken loans from us and repay back as at when due.Our greatest thanks goes to our customer’s who directed either their relatives or friends to also take loan from us. We want to use this opportunity to thank you so much for your corporation and for trusting us and allowing us to put smiles on your faces even at this time when it is difficult to trust lender’s because of so many fake online lenders proliferating the internet and spoiling the name of the few legitimate ones. Thank you for giving us the benefit of doubt and for letting people know that there are still few legitimate online loan lenders like KGF. We know that as this year is about to end, there may be certain needs looking for a soft loan to take care of your bills, expand your business or even start up a new business.
Am happy to announce to everyone that as part of our end of year bonanza and most especially as a way to mark our 30th years anniversary of rendering financial assistance to people around the world, KIVA GLOBAL FINANCE has arranged a special loan package to everyone, both our old and new customer’s around the world. We have arranged an END OF YEAR LOAN PACKAGE that will suit your needs and circumstances. The processes are simple and flexible. NO COLLATERAL REQUIRED. NO CREDIT CHECK. NO CO-SIGNING. Hurry now and apply to benefit from this end of year loan package before it is closed. Send your request to one of our representatives now through email: ( johnson.kivagroup@gmail.com ) and experience financial freedom.
For the benefit of those who are hearing about us for the first time, i want to let you know that to date, KIVA GLOBAL FINANCE serves more than 27,000 members across the world with $250 million in assets and more than $500 million reserve loan funds in support of our mission. Our financial services has touched the lives of people around the world. At KGF, we do things differently. Our loan is highly secured and affordable. You can visit our website at http://www.kiva.org// to know more about us.You can also apply there. But that will take some weeks before your loan can be approved.
I will advice you contact one of our representatives directly for fast processing and approval of your loan within 24 hours via ( johnson.kivagroup@gmail.com ) Contact him now so we can discuss in more detail with you as we would like to extend our services worldwide…Always remember, NO TRIAL, NO SUCCESS.
Good Day Every One,
I am Mrs Charity Peterson,a citizen of the United Kingdom,I am married woman with two kids,a boy and a girls. I have been happily married for 8 years now and life is worth living for us here in the London. My main positive aim of writing this article is to share a testimony about a loan lender Mr Crystal Clark the director of CRYSTAL CLARK FINANCIAL HOME,which God has use to change my story today before i continue further about this genuine loan lender,let me quickly narrate my sad story.
It all started like this, when my lovely husband was getting prepared to pay a condulent visit to his parent who reside in British Columbia,Canada. Before he left for the visit to his home soil he was briefly illed,although he was taking treatment before he left for the journey. Getting to his country,he called and reported that he has successfully arrived in his state,we were glad to hear that good news likewise him and his parent,so he told us he was going to stay for long because he wanted to feel at home a little before he return,after two weeks,we received a call that his illness is becoming worst and that it’s getting out of hands,that he has been admitted in the hospital there in his state. Then we started praying to God to heal him for us,not quite long he died. I became very sad ,i cried almost all day because of the sudden disappearance of my lovely husband,who left i am the family so soon,then we had to plan for his funeral and at which he was buried and after all set and do,i had to return to my own country to start up my life with the kids.
Getting to my London,things were becoming difficult for us because all the money he left behind have been spent during his funeral,then i have to manged with the kids,still yet things were becoming more worst for me. We can’t even feed three time a day,no money to pay my bills,school fees for my kids and not withstanding the house rent was coming to experienced and the landlord was already around to remind us about it,all this together were in my mind and i was so worried,i couldn’t even sleep at night,at times i cried till dawn,i have no one and no where to go for help. I started thinking on what to do to be able to raise money but i could not come up with a good idea. One day as i was surfing the net,i saw an advert by a man named Mr Crystal Clark regarding a loan on going program,without wasting more time i contacted them and i apply for loan sum of $25,000.00usd and i was so happy because they responded to my email and i was given a form to fill,which i did and they sent me their loan terms and condition including the monthly installment which i also agree to,after that i was ask to pay for upfront fee,then i became skeptical and i did not reply them any more and i had to sleep over it and i found that i don’t have any other remedy,i had to look for the money and i email them on how i will get the fee to them,they instructed me to remit the fee via western union and i did. Now i have to wait for their response,to my greatest surprise before God and man,i receive an alert from by bank that the sum of $25,000.00usd had been credited into my bank account,i was so happy and my heart was full of joy,my kid were also very much glad to here the good news and today i am a successful window who is now doing well,i now own a unisex boutique where i now managed. I am using this medium to tell the worldwide that i am very grateful to Mr Crystal Clark,who turn my story to glory. Today are you in any need of a loan to stand back to feet or are you in the same situation like me,the solution is here and now,contact Mr Crystal Clark a genuine,legit,reputable and God fearing man loan lender for your urgent loan via email:crystalclark_financialhome007@yahoo.com and don’t forget to tell him you where referred to him by me because i promise to bring him more client as a return of what he as done for me and my family.
Thanks.
Mrs Charity Peterson.
My father is a brand new Recruiter for an IT H.R. firm, a small company, maybe a dozen employees. They’re all american. He never did this sort of work before, and after 9 months on the job is amazed at this whole situation. His company finds jobs that need filling (all consulting temp jobs for large ERP installations and implementations), and send him the requirements. He manages the job boards, posting the jobs, and searching the boards for suitable resumes. Mostly, after finding qualified people, he spends the day trying to reach them by phone. I home-school all day, so I hear every conversation.
When I say “amazed at this whole situation,” I mean, he is amazed when he finds that the prospects he talks to are defeated by the influx of people willing to take the same job for a much lessor rate. For the most part, he’s gotten pretty good at identifying qualifications using job boards and reading resume’s. So, his key “to-do’s” are to find out if the candidate is rolling off an assignment and when, is willing to take the job he has to offer, and answer the question, “what is your rate.”
You would think that, as smart as IT people are, they could answer this question, and move on, but more and more of them launch into a complaint that sounds something like this: (by way of example only, not a quote) “Well, that depends on who I’m competing with. How many firms are involved in the placement of a person for this position? How many foreign consultants have shown an interest in this position? I don’t want to loose the opportunity to get this job if it’s a matter of rate.”
I’m not an economist, but if I had to put a name to it, I’d call the whole situation,
another way for the rich to get richer by choosing a less expensive alternative to fill a niche. No different than opening trade with China to purchase goods less expensively than the competition. However, I think it becomes unfair when the rules of the game aren’t followed (at the very least) by all. When companies hire “regular tech” guys instead of specialists with skills not available, it’s just circumventing the system, isn’t it? When consulting firms only hire H1 people because they want a 30% return instead of hiring all american and accepting 14-20% return, isn’t that simply, pure greed? When hiring entities “recruit” H1’s, rather than posting the jobs, and waiting to talk to H1’s when 10 days has expired, with no similar american worker with sufficient skills answering it; isn’t that simply circumventing the way the H1 program was written, and I’d go as far as to ask, doing so greedily?
You workers from India may consider it “smart” to rail against, and even make fun – that you are getting over us because of, our system. But here’s the thing: there are some clear examples in US history where the american worker has stood up to that which is so clearly unfair. I’m not saying that you should consider “staying in your place,” but there is some degree of self interest that may be maintained in not being so snarky about the fact that you’re taking our jobs unfairly. The job market for you may dry up after a single election. Our working public may, at some point, realize that the hippy type groups fighting the 1 percenters in New York, may have had something there. Maybe there is a class warfair thing going on in the U.S. Maybe the rich really are just turning a blind eye to the law when they hire an Indian worker for half what they can find 10 others for currently that are US citizens. Maybe this group will realize, that it’s not just about “the minimum wage,” but is an entire plethora of issues that should be addressed once they again regain power – as they have before.
Snarky comments by foreigners are never welcome. Even worse when you realize, they’re also in your pocket as well.
Testimony of lending money
I want to give you my testimony here, you who are looking for ready money, I do not know how to express my joy for being myself looking ready, I came across Lelio.Frediano. He granted a loan of 10,000 euro at a rate of 2% and I’ve talked to several colleagues who have also received loans from this man without worries. Especially for me, I received my credit application by bank transfer in a period of time without protocol and I am quite satisfied. The reason why I publish this announcement is that this man continues to work wonders for people who are really in need. So I decided to share this opportunity with you who do not have the benefit of banks or who had had to deal with dishonest lenders who are abusing the personality of others; you have a project or need financing, you can write to him and explain your situation; it will help if it is convinced of your honesty. Here is his email: leliofrediano@gmail.com
I am Mrs Jessica, currently living in Cape town, South Africa.I am a widow at the moment with three kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in Dec 2013 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, I was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender who gave me a loan of $85,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral , no credit check, no co signer with just 2% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule, please contact Mr Daniel Jones. He doesn?t know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about him and also i want God to bless him more.You can contact him through his email: fidelityloanfirm@outlook.com
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My name is Mr Theodore Boyd..I was frustrated when i got fired from work,so I wanted a loan to start up a business but i was scammed severally by those bastards who pose themselves as loan lenders and tries to rip people off their hard-earned-money.I finally applied from ..It was unbelievable that i finally got my loan..On behalf of my family I want to thank you for your help.Thank you MrsWinona Millaray for keeping I and my family’s head above water . her company contact address is winonamillarayloanfoundation@admin.in.th or better still winonamillarayloanfoundation@linuxmail.org please ,If you want to experience swift and guarranteed service you can have them contacted and also letting them know that you were refered to them by Thank You Once Again ….Mr Theodore Boyd.
Hi Peeps ,
My name is Mr Theodore Boyd..I was frustrated when i got fired from work,so I wanted a loan to start up a business but i was scammed severally by those bastards who pose themselves as loan lenders and tries to rip people off their hard-earned-money.I finally applied from ..It was unbelievable that i finally got my loan..On behalf of my family I want to thank you for your help.Thank you MrsWinona Millaray for keeping I and my family’s head above water . her company contact address is winonamillarayloanfoundation@admin.in.th or better still winonamillarayloanfoundation@linuxmail.org please ,If you want to experience swift and guarranteed service you can have them contacted and also letting them know that you were refered to them by Thank You Once Again ….
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I’m Jane Brown by name. I live in USA, i want to use this
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THANKS
Miss Debra Hughes
The companies “investing” in H1B workers are ultimately creating their own demise. An Indian H1B worker will work for less pay than an US worker…the trade-off is that most H1B workers are medoicore in their quality of service….they are often hard to understand because of those thick [Indian] accents, difficult to work with because of their lack of skills & knowledge, & not very professional in handling tasks at hand. When I was interviewed for an IT position, I had to go through 3 interviews, & unfortunately 1 of them was Indian. This Indian recruiter didn’t know the position I had applied for, I had to hand him one of my resumes, while the other recruiters knew exactly what I was applying for! I had a hard time understanding the Indian recruiter too! It sounded like he was mumbling, & his thick accent didn’t help. I had to ask “Huh?” because we wouldn’t speak loud enough. To make matters worse, it’s like he didn’t know how to interview candidates. The way he asked questions was a way other IT recruiters wouldn’t ask. For example, he said “So you would lie is someone asked you a question?” I told him, “NO, that’s wrong & unethical, & if I don’t know the answer, I would direct the client to someone who does know the answer.” Needless to say, I think I got screwed by him. I wouldn’t have minded his accent if he speak loud & clear enough; & keep in mind, this Indian was the boss of 30-something people in the firm I applied to. If this guy can’t even speak clearly while interviewing someone, I’d hate to see how his employees have to deal with him. All the other interviewers had everything ready for interviewing me, except for the Indian. Ugh. I hate employers who can’t do their job right!
Hello friends!!! I am Mr John Romero a citizen of UK. i want to testify of the good Loan Lender who showed light to me after been scammed by 2 different Internet international lender, they all promise to give me a loan after making me pay fees which yield to nothing and amounted to no positive result. i lost my hard earn money and it was a total of 3500Pounds. One day as i was browsing through the internet looking frustrated when i came across a testimony woman whose name is Mrs Patient Jones from the United State (US) who was also scammed and eventually got linked to a legit loan company called Mr MARK SMITH Loan Company (mrmarksmithloancompany@gmail.com) where she finally got her loan, so i decided to contact the same loan company and then told them my story on how i have been scammed by 2 different lenders who did nothing but to course me pain. I explain to the company by mail and all they told me was to cry no more because i will get my loan in their company and also i have made the right choice of contacting them. i filled the loan application form and proceeded with all that was requested of me and I was given a loan amount of 350,000.00Pounds by this great Company { Mr MARK SMITH Loan Company} managed by Mr. MARK SMITH and here i am today happy because Mr MARK SMITH Loan Company has given me a loan so i made a vow to my self that i will keep testifying on the internet on how i got my loan. Do you need a loan urgently? kindly and quickly contact Mr MARK SMITH Loan Company now for your loan via email: mrmarksmithloancompany@gmail.com Thanks MR MARK SMITH
What did the Lone Ranger(K no sabes) say to Tonto(stupid)?” Looks like we are surrounded by Indians”. Tonto responds, “What do you mean we”? We focus on the Mexicans all the time and use them as a cover to pass “immigration reform”. Pres O is listening to Facebook, Google and Twitter and not Mr. Lettuce farmer, Mr. Strawberry farmer or John Smith Construction and Landscaping Co. But yet they are being charged with doing the same thing Big Corp is going. I say let the Americans that need a job work in the fields and on production lines at these minimum wages to keep them off the welfare dole. Is that really so bad?
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It really is teeming with scams on the internet, really not normal. In one week I lost 500usd for payments. I had inquiries made ??at Dandy Cash.com
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