Windows 8 is just over a month from hitting the market and my sense is that this initial release, at least, will be at best controversial and at worst a failure. Microsoft is simply trying to change too many things at once.
What we have here is the Microsoft Bob effect, where change runs amuck simply because it can, compounded in this case by a sense of panic in Redmond. Microsoft so desperately need Windows 8 to be a huge success that they’ve fiddled it into a likely failure.
Microsoft Bob, if you don’t remember its fleeting passage in 1995, was a so-called social interface for Windows intended to be used by novices. The idea was that Bob should be so intuitive as to require no instruction at all. And it succeeded in that, I suppose, though was appallingly slow. I was at the Bob introduction and remember Bill Gates requiring 17 mouse clicks (I counted) just to open a file during his demo. I knew then that Bob was doomed and said so in print.
Just like every other writer who mentions Bob, I’ll take the low road here and recall that the Microsoft Product Manager for Bob was Melinda French. Who was going to tell the future Mrs. Gates that 17 clicks were too many?
But back then Microsoft, not Apple, was the $600 billion gorilla and could afford such indulgences. Redmond’s market dominance has allowed it to survive any number of bad OS releases. Remember Windows ME? Remember Windows Vista? But those days are past, desktops are in decline, and Microsoft doesn’t control the emerging mobile platforms. So the company is trying very hard to use this new Windows release to help gain the upper hand in mobile.
It won’t work.
It won’t work because you can’t takeover mobile by hobbling the desktop. By adopting a common code base for both desktops and mobile all Microsoft is doing is compromising both. This is not good but I’m fairly confident it will also be shortly reversed.
Using the Windows 8 beta the first three words out of my mouth were “How do I?” and then frustration. Have you tried it? It is not intuitive. Power users will persist and figure it out, but Mom and most everyone else will not be happy.
They took away the start button and force you to boot on the modern side (Metro). There is not much in Metro for traditional PC users.
Removing the start button will confuse everyone and is a step backwards.
And developers, a vital Microsoft constituency, don’t like it either.
This too shall pass: I predict that Windows 8 Service Pack 1 – will add the start button back and allow you to boot directly into your desktop again.
Microsoft is a resilient company and it will survive this misstep just as it has so many others. But what’s important here is not the bonehead design moves, but that they’ll be little to no help in the tablet and phone markets where Redmond so desperately needs to succeed.
Just to be clear, here’s Microsoft’s internal business strategy as I understand it. In order to regain mobile momentum they’ve deliberately hobbled the desktop side. That way they can reasonably claim desktop sales as mobile sales and vice versa. What better way to pick up 100+ million “mobile licenses” in the next 12 months?
Only it’s BS. And even if it weren’t BS, even 100 million licenses aren’t enough to be the first or second player in a product space that will shortly have a billion units.
By overreaching with Windows 8 Microsoft not only won’t succeed, they are for the first time in 30+ years in a position where they might truly fail as a company.
This was their best shot and so far they appear to be blowing it.
So should we just wait for Windows 9?
I remember when I used to go out and buy every new MS, because the newest one really was much better. Now I only get every second, because of Vista and Win 8, which aren’t really that much better than the versions they are replacing, but are much more annoying to use.
Whatever happened to all the features Vista was supposed to come out with? Why aren’t they in Win 8?
what happened to all the cool stuff in Cairo that never made it?
and to rile the other fanbois, what happened to all the neat stuff in Copeland?
same thing that happened to all the neat stuff that never made it into Vista… fell on the floor. this manager didn’t like it, that interface had glitches, the code guy behind whazzit left in a snit, whatever. bugaboo didn’t work. gotcha dropped bits and bluescreened all the time.
and a month before commit time, the guys involved in “the cool stuff” got yanked to put out brushfires so the main body of the new OS could get shipped.
same thing all the time. if you’re shovelling 10 pounds of… something… into a 5 pound bag, you’re going to be wearing a lot of it when you go home.
This is a beautiful and accurate comment. Sounds like you pulled toilet duty at MSFT too. Thanks to the politics and large number of chuckleheads the end result at MSFT is usually a bag of ‘something’ and Win8 will be no different.
“By adopting a common code base for both desktops and mobile all Microsoft is doing is compromising both.”
Agree, but I worry that Apple is heading down the same path.
Yes, Apple will eventually meld PC and Mobile architecture into one big happy mess. But that is years down the road when ARM chips have the power to handle a desktop. By that time the look and feel of Apple UIs for both desktops and mobile will so similar that most punters won’t really care what is under the hood.
Apple will do this in a slow, almost organic process. The only people who really need to worry about how this will evolve are chip makers Intel and AMD. While Cring has not has been as bold to give an actual prediction when x86 architecture might go the way of the Dodo, we might see the end of the x86 era by the end of the decade. Or at the very least x86 will be the minority player in a world dominated by ARM.
Remember iOS is OSX baked for ARM. Both iOS and OSX are underpinned by Darwin Unix. If Apple plans this out well, a very big if, the transition can be fairly smooth and painless. But then again …
process engineering.
Intel is moving more quickly into arm territory than arm into x86.
process engineering.
Intel is getting lower power while keeping higher levels of performance than arm is increasing performance while not blowing the power budget.
process engineering.
Intel’s secret weapon for over 40 years.
process engineering.
arm’s waterloo. just like the risc guys.
x86 forever. god help us all.
“By adopting a common code base for both desktops and mobile all Microsoft is doing is compromising both.”
This also seems to be what Apple is doing and I don’t understand that either. I guess it must be cheaper to have to maintain a single code base. But, if the new Microsoft is anything like the last two Mac OS releases, it’s a step backwards. I’m a fan of Windows 7 and Mac OS X 10.6. Now it sounds like Windows 8 is heading in the same direction as Mac OS X 10.7/8, which is not good for those of us who prefer to work at a computer.
What Apple is doing is SLOWLY bringing the Mac user interface to the point where it can be controlled with your fingers, but I don’t think they will ever take the step of starting Mac OS right into the iOS style Launchpad (on devices with a keyboard and mouse).
I agree Apple is converging interfaces and code bases, but they’re doing it for entirely different reasons than Microsoft.
Microsoft is forcing their Windows Phone 7 interface paradigm onto existing desktop users in the hope that these users will then buy Windows phones and tablets simply because the interface is familiar. Their forcing a full table/phone UI on unwitting desktop users in the hope that it will sell mobile devices.
Apple, on the other hand, is slowing incorporating iOS paradigms into Mac OS as (this is key) secondary control interfaces to Mac OS.
The difference may seem subtle on the surface but the distinction is very important. Forcing Metro onto desktop users smells of desperation and isn’t in the user’s best interest. It serves one party: Microsoft’s marketing department. On the other hand, Apple’s move serves the user better in the long run. Apple knows users will demand touch support from all their devices in 5 years, so the iOS additions to Mac OS need to feel evolutionary instead of bolted on. When Apple introduces touch screen Mac devices – be that desktop, tablet or, more likely, hybrid devices – the familiar touch friendly paradigms from iOS will be present in Mac OS, and will have been for years. Nothing will seem foreign, it will simply be a natural evolution of the Mac experience.
To be fair, Microsoft is showing some foresight here by realizing this convergence is imminent. However, they’re forcing it too soon as a marketing move. Metro on desktops should be what Launchpad is on the Mac: a secondary interface, not a start menu replacement.
I have friends that will occasionally reach out and touch their laptop screen as if they could launch icons with their fingers.
Your friends are visionaries.
They also tend to have very dirty screens.
Ahem (reddening), I’ve done that. I was embarrassed the first few times, then frustrated when it didn’t work the last few times.
Sooner than later, I guess.
This made me smile.
We recently went to the Electric Mountain visitor’s centre in Llanberis, North Wales. There were some big screens on the walls, but one of them (running Windows) was showing an error dialog.
I touched the screen to try and close the dialog box, but soon realised it was not a touch screen. Then I noticed a sign that said “please don’t touch the screens”…
Later, I saw another visitor doing the same thing, which made me feel a little better!
“This also seems to be what Apple is doing and I don’t understand that either.”
I understand what Apple is doing. I wouldn’t call it merging code bases as much as moving the Mac UI towards iOS.
First, iOS is easily 10 times easier to support. That’s from my experience supporting both. When the iPhone came out I was waiting for clients to call with questions and problems, and they never did. These same people would call once every month or so with Mac questions or problems. When I asked them about their iPhones, they would just say, “I love it!”
Once Apple discovered how much easier iOS is to use and support in the real world, why wouldn’t they try to improve the Mac in that regard? iOS makes OS X look old, clunky, and complicated. There is no reason to think that Apple would not stand still for that. You can argue about how they should go about fixing OS X, but they had to do something.
Second, Apple has many, many more iOS users than OS X users. They have little to lose, and a lot to gain, by making their desktop OS more comfortable for people who have iPhones and iPads but have never used a Mac before.
What you seem to be failing to take into account is that iOS was always going to be easier to maintain because people don’t expect it to do complex things. Who does real program development or CAD on their iphone?
Every release iOS becomes more complex, and every month more creative apps are released. Of course nobody does CAD or software development on an iPhone, they can use an iPad for those things. It’s possible but unusual now; it will be much more common in the future.
Actually, converting the desktop users in second-class-citizens, will jeopardise the corporate market, one segment that traditionally upgrades from previous versions. (Once the SP1 is already out, of course …)
Actually, corporates tend to be very slow to upgrade. I’ve worked in some of the largest banks in the world over the last few years and they are, almost without exception, still running Windows XP.
Corporates are actually the people MS needs to upgrade, but they couldn’t persuade them to move to Windows 7, which was a minor change to the UI compared to Windows 8. I fear large parts of the corporate world will continue to run Windows XP for years to come.
Can’t tell you how frustrating, and unproductive, it is working with a state of th eart laptop hobbled by a 10+ year old operating system.
If they want people to upgrade from XP, they ought to release something that’s an improvement on it. They’ve had how many years now to come up with something?
The corporate world is moving to Windows 7. I’m Desktop Architect for a fairly large government agency, and we’re in the middle of beta testing our new Win7 image. The reason why this took so long has less to do with OS costs & development (since we all have volume license agreements) and more to do with compatibility with legacy applications. We only shifted to XP in a serious way three years ago, when MS pulled the plug on Win2K support.
The same is true this time around as well. Our target for having the bulk of the enterprise migrated is mid 2014, when MS intends to pull the plug on support for WinXP.
I’m pretty sure we’ll be using Win7 for the next five years, as it has decent legs, solid drivers from all vendors, and most importantly, we have done a lot of hard work in defining the security envelope for the OS. In fact, one of the reasons why WIn7 has taken a while to get into government service is that we have a hard time running ahead of NIST USGCB security guidelines. Which is to say that the folks who are security managers would rather have someone else to blame for those security decisions, and don’t want to be the pilot department that gets caught with their pants down due to a security breach.
Win8 is generating some excitement from a few folks, but not really from me. I hate it a little less than the first time I tried it, but it still messes with a lot of stuff that didn’t need to be messed with. Bob is right about the “how do I?” issue… Win8 leaves you frustrated until you realize that the start button has been transformed into the start screen, and that all the controls have been made idiot-proof in the start screen. Then it starts to make more sense, but it still leaves you thinking that they’re putting training wheels on your powerful workstation so you won’t hurt yourself. It’s kind of demeaning.
So, Win7 is pretty much it for the time being. Best corporate platform until MS unscrews it’s head.
I am actually a little sad for MS. They are about 10-20 tweeks away from having a good tablet desktop hybrid, but currently its unusable with a mouse. Releasing it this way is a huge mistake. It makes poor use of screen real estate for large and multi-monitor setups. It just gets in the way. Usage is not obvious at all. Business users are going to hate it, Windows 7 will continue to exist for 20 years.
Ok, at first I hated the new Win8 UI (Metro). After I forced myself to use it, to learn how to build metro style apps, I really like it. I like the live tiles, I like the “fast and fluid” functioning of the applications, and I like the fact that I have BOTH the desktop and the “Metro” look and feel.
Win8, without doubt, is targeted towards tablets and phone; however, it is really targeted towards touch.
Haters will say what they will, but I am no MS Fanboy, and I like Win8; and I am a developer.
The desktop UI has been around for a long time and should be regarded as a stable technology not something that changes at the whim of fashion and continually requires people to lean new things just for the sake of it. That is an inefficient waste of effort.
Just think how many accidents there would be if every time you jumped in a car the controls where in different places!
Yes.
Windows 8 is an absolute trainwreck of epic proportions. It will make Vista look like a diamond, comparitively speaking.
I thought Windows ME was the worst OS in the history of the world, until Vista came out. Vista, with its performance problems, instability, blue screens, driver crashes, network problems, etc. made ME seem like a hiccup.
And Windows 8 is about to become the biggest flop, the most disastrous, poorly-received, sales-impacting OS in the history of desktop computers. Good for Linux, better for Mac.
It’s just so funny, even bizarre and scary, how MS really has this cycle of flop-then-excellence. Windows 7 is truly outstanding. And for 3 years I’ve been worried that they wouldn’t be able to escape the “tick tock” cycle of following a success with a disaster. In spite of everyone knowing the pattern, including those within Microsoft, they still couldn’t escape it.
My opinion is that they should literally fire everyone, EVERYONE, on the “product management” side — not the engineers developing what they’re told to make, but all the overpaid meeting whores who have no clue what the average consumer or business user wants/needs. All they’d have to do is ask, but hey, that’s work.
This will truly turn a LOT of people away. And Apple isn’t dumb. (Not a fanboy, by the way). Apple will probably have a 2-pronged approach to seize this opportunity: (1) run ads (hopefully done by a firm other than the “Genius” clowns) that will speak to frustrated Win8 customers; (2) price products / run promotions, maybe even “switch” incentives, to maximize sales from people who might be on the fence.
I truly, truly do not understand how MS can have fucked this up so badly. The complaints about Win8 have been circulating for 18 months.
Heads need to roll. Investors will punish this company severely. Employees with underwater options will jump ship to Facebook, Google, etc. (assuming they can even get an interview). This truly might be the beginning of the end for MS, I agree. Not a 2-3 year slide, it will take a while, but I’m not sure they will be able to pull out of this one.
“meeting whores” … good one. Apt.
The “genius clowns” were by the same people who did the widely acclaimed Mac/PC ads. Everyone is a critic when it comes to advertising. Its not science and not every thing is a home run. Certainly not all of the get a mac ads were terrific. Certainly is not fair to call people clowns over 3 ads, which I thought were ok if not great. In time they might have been great. We will never now as they fanboi rage they produced online killed the campaign.
Great post Dan -I’ve gotta throw another ounce of piss into the cheerios though. I too generally love win 7. However I’ve recently switched to SSDs in two of my machines and have discovered the lovely water balloon known as WinSXS. Long story short, it adds a 10+ Gb storage overhead to 7 -very SSD unfriendly, IMO. So, what looks like a great OS is trashing one of the greatest recent hardware upgrades that one can make to one’s machine. Ask 10 people about it and you’ll get 10 different answers about what’s up with WinSXS, but if two different file explorers and command line all tell me that I have a 15Gb data tumor in my should-be-crazy-fast new SSD, then it’s time to look elsewhere for an OS.
This has already prompted me to switch to Fedora Linux on my laptop and I’m quite frankly very impressed with the quality of the interface and the progress that’s been made by the Linux community. My next step will be to do a dual boot with fedora/7 on my main machine, as there are a lot of programs (Adobe CS5, etc.) that aren’t really replaceable in the Linux space at the moment. If the Steam Linux project actually makes it to market and other software companies get the hint so that A-list programs like Adobe, Autodesk, etc. start making it to Linux, then I’ll make the switch for good.
I think that MS is on the verge of a game and life changing misstep, and if they don’t pull out of it by shedding lots of talentless meeting whores (your term has taken root!) and reacting to the market that they still have in the bag, they’re gonna go the way of the Quagga. As for Apple -I’m so put off by their arrogance and bad global citizenship that I can’t ever imagine making one my go-to system (fanbois, I’m going easy -feel free to escalate if you dare). Though I recognize the quality of Apple (especially mobile) products, the idea of spending several thousand dollars on a machine with a soldered-in hard drive makes no sense to me.
Seems to me that Linux is on the verge of gaining access to a great opportunity to up it’s percentage of desktop users and at this point I’m thinking it might be time for me to break out my big foam hand with the penguin on it.
I work with Linux users, and too many only do it to bleat “Look at me! Look at me! I made it DO something I wanted it to! Twice!” The rest of us have work to do, thanks.
Yep, time for work, right after those antivirus upgrades, three hundred patches, eighteen reboots, and two bsods.
“Windows 7 is truly outstanding” — Dan
Well of course Win 7 is great, it is nothing more than the mother of all Vista SP releases. It is what Vista should have been on first release.
Even if Windows 8 is widely hated, it will nonetheless be a sales success for the exact same reason that Windows Vista was a sales success… by default every desktop, laptop, and netbook will include a copy. What else will Dell, HP, etc. include on their hardware, Linux? Android?
Don’t forget.. even if people buy a Windows 8 computer and downgrade to 7, it counts as a Windows 8 sale.
As for the Surface, who knows. I’d hate to predict anything without knowing more about the user experience, price, and specifications. The press event was too guarded and void of practical information.
As well as MS knows how to game the numbers, they are not foolish enough to know the difference between real sales and BS sales. They will know internally how it is received, no matter how they spin it externally. They did not become the biggest shark in the pond by being too stupid to see where the fish are swimming.
Sorry, “.. to NOT know the difference…”
@ PsyD
Is that what you guys call a Freudian Slip?
Actually, the premium value laptops that are getting bought are Apple. All that needs to happen is that people will start buying more iMacs than dull PCs running an Operating System (Windows 8, there is no ‘Win’ in this version for desktop users).
Businesses will still get Windows boxen, since they are more price sensitive (most business PCs are very low spec by today’s standards, processing power is really only needed by content creators and gamers).
Microsoft will survive, but the developer mindshare has already moved from them. According to the TIOBE Programming Language Index C#.NET usage is fairly static (this is the preferred development environment for Windows); Objective-C (Apple’s environment) is rocketing; and Java (cross-platform, used on Android devices, Windows, Linux and Macs; and on the server and client side of the Web, eg. GWT/vaadin) is declining slowly (mostly due to corporate projects being deferred) but is still miles ahead of Microsoft’s C# clone.
In short, Microsoft will survive in the business space but in the consumer and developer spaces they are already starting to slip quite seriously. Microsoft stock is not going to go up anytime soon.
Yeah the business will still get Windows boxen … they make reliable work-horses
“Don’t forget.. even if people buy a Windows 8 computer and downgrade to 7, it counts as a Windows 8 sale.”
That was the point I was going to make. Windows Vista still had epic sales, but who ran it? Businesses were upgrading to Windows XP, rather than running a cronically slow OS of Vista.
Windows 7 proved it wasn’t the interface change (this time). However, they say you can’t polish a turd… Windows 7 is very impressive as a desktop OS, but there’s just a couple of simple functions, such as file search, which they’ve made completely useless.
It’s as if Microsoft developers don’t use Microsoft products any longer, so don’t know how a PC should be used.
But Dell et al are not going to be happy if Win 8 flops and twitches. They are already watching sales go down the drain. They are already watching Apple eat their lunch. Who knows, they might get pissed off enough to join forces and work with Meg Whitman to make WebOS a player. Desperate times call for desperate action.
Sales figures already show that the Ultrabook effort to be less that fabulous. Seems punters prefer a real Macbook Air to a slightly cheaper alternative. When the retina display comes to the Air series, WinTel blood will flow even more. Apple has the supply chain so thoroughly nailed down that PC manufactures can not play the cut-rate game without much pain and suffering.
Please also note that MS is now following Apple’s lead and selling hardware. Just another reason for HP et al to be seeing red, and not just in their accounting.
I’m not as foolish as Cring to predict a mass revolt against Redmond next year; that is why he gets paid the big bucks. But I definitely see storm clouds forming. If WebOs suddenly becomes a closed system, or Open like Android is–open in name only– that will be a sign of a WinTel revolt. I’ll let Cring figure out when that happens, if at all.
I think the solidity of Windows 7 and the relatively short gap between it’s release and Windows 8 buys them some time on the desktop side.
On the tablet side the Metro interface itself looks good, but to have any chance whatever they have to execute flawlessly on a whole raft of issues: Performance (of a desktop OS on phones and ARM tablets!), usability, battery life, reliability, hardware quality, app ecosystem, media ecosystem.
Missteps on any one of those fronts could be a major setback, on more than one it could be fatal.
This given that they are racing as fast as possible to catch up. Apple had much more modest goals with the iPad, basically just scaling up the iPhone interface, yet they still took 3 years to tweak, polish and more importantly think it through to make sure they got it all right.
Not clear why they didn’t release Windows 8RT and left themselves 12 months to work out the UI and bugs with Windows 8 (for PCs). It is a question of changing too much. When the horizon changes dramatically, people grab on to anything solid. Will not destroy Microsoft, but will be another lost opportunity.
A Win 8 flop might not destroy MS, but it might shove Balmer out the door. Buh-by Mr. sweat-stained dress-shirt.
Probably because Windows 8 for x86 is pretty much the Windows 7 desktop without the start menu. Bugs are more likely to be found in the new WinRT part. But I agree from the point of view that WinRT and its bugs may taint the whole eXPerience.
My recollection of MS Bob is that if you entered the wrong password 3 times, it would prompt you to enter a password that was easier to remember.
And then *accept* it!
After that, it didn’t make any difference to me how many mouse clicks it took to do anything.
I can’t understand why everyone seems to think that Windows 7 is so much better than Vista. Of course, I didn’t get Vista until it had gone through all the important bug fixes (they call them service pack 1, etc.).
My big complaint with Windows 7 is the placement of the icon that displays the desktop. Instead of leaving it where it was, some idiot at MS moved it to just below the bottom of the vertical scroll bar. Half the time when I want to use the bottom of the vertical scroll bar I hit the display desktop icon by mistake. Whoever put the display desktop icon there should be tarred and feathered!
I don’t care for some of the other changes in Windows 7, but they can’t compare to the display desktop icon fiasco.
Oh yah. It’s not even an icon. It’s just a blank bar and you’re supposed to know somehow that when you click inside the bar, it will display the desktop. What stupid idiot thought up this abortion?
If you tried Vista before the service packs then you’d know what the pain was about. Most major companies did not upgrade from XP to Vista and that should tell you something. They all waited for Windows 7.
Charles, the reason people think Windows 7 is so much better than Vista, is its improved performance on the same hardware, something a lot of people have commented on. Personally, I’ve also found Windows 7 to give better performance than XP on older PCs that originally had XP installed as well, though naturally finding drivers can be problematical….
Agree strongly with you about that dratted display desktop thing by the way…. intensely annoying!
Mike, thanks for the info. Now I know.
Win 8 and the ZunePad are trainwrecks. Ballmer and Sinofsky need to go.
No, it’s the old desktop that is a trainwreck. A massive trainwreck. iOS proved that most consumers don’t need all that fluff.
Bob, read the comments on a popular gadget site like TheVerge. They like it. They always ignored Microsoft. Now they are all exited on the new direction.
Outlook.com, the Metro-like replacement of Hotmail.com, got 10 million new users in just two weeks.
Windows 8 is the revenge of the average consumer. The average consumer doesn’t get most traditional desktop concepts. Microsoft listened and created a very easy and controlled system for them. Power users just need to learn Win+D to get to the desktop and they’ll be fine too.
Just wait until the app store fills up with apps and most consumers won’t ever return to the old desktop environment.
People have been predicting the demise of the desktop PC for a good 20 years now. Back then it was diskless X-terminals that were going to overtake it; later it was networked toys like WebTV. Guess they’ll have to be right sooner or later.
I see kids with iPods and iPads. I don’t think they would want a desktop pc if you gave them one for free.
They will put down the iPad when they see this: “The Lenovo IdeaCentre A720 is a 27″ all-in-one PC with a 10-point multi-touch screen that swivels downward for hands-on use, ideal for Windows 8. Costing $1,600, this PC features full HD (1920 x 1080) resolution, Blu-ray capability, integrated TV functionality, and fast Intel Core i7 processors.” https://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/windows-8-rt-pcs-roaring-gates-144139 . (BTW that’s real cable TV, since it uses a cable card.)
Sales figures are proving the predictions. The big beige box is dying.
“Just wait until the app store fills up with apps and most consumers won’t ever return to the old desktop environment.”
This is what it is all about. Microsoft want to control the software channel in the same way Apple does. That’s why Microsoft are selling Windows 8 so cheaply.
However, I doesn’t look like their app Store will get enough of a critical mass to make it worthwhile for developers to go *exclusively* for Microsoft’s platform. Apps will come as ports, but cross-platform is the way to go.
Incidentally, even apps are kinda old fashioned and only a few of them make money. The web is still where most apps are created these days (although even harder to monetize). If Win 8 borks applications on the web (as all previous versions of Internet Explorer have) then the Microsoft tablets will be dead in the water (in contrast, both Apple and Google-based devices have proper standards-compliant internet browsers that actually work properly with most websites).
readers of the Verge are not average consumers, they are geeks who get overly emotional and rage over the Apple verdict. That is not an average consumer. If you are using them to gauge Windows 8 a success, then it truly will fail.
The one thing I have learned over the last 20 years is don’t listen to geeks as to what will be a success in the market. They are almost always wrong because they think everyone else likes or SHOULD like what they do. They want to tinker with their computers. Average consumers don’t. Steve Jobs got that. That is why iOS has been so insanely successful and the Linux desktop revolution never happened.
Just look around. Look at your family. Are they fluent desktop users? Mine are not. My colleagues at work also aren’t. A simpler iOS like approach works much better form them. Try working at a helpdesk for a while and see how users work and fail to understand lots of desktop concepts.
Yeah, from a support standpoint (another help desk person here), even with my HPC customers, the desktop side of things is still the bottleneck. While I won’t be personally impacted by 8 (Mac desktop and Linux cluster user), I’m hopeful my customers using win8 will be easier to support. But and doubtful. Even with win7, we end up having to use admin rights and go into services and stuff, just to get basic things working.
I expect widespread deployment of Windows 8 in the enterprise, so I’m not as pessimistic as Bob about it. Yes there will be the service pack he wisely predicts with the start button returning, but that will only make Windows 8 more acceptable on the desktop and laptop.
Mobile is another story, it’s hard for me to see Microsoft crowbarring its way into the Apple-Android duoply, that pushme-pullyou has left the barn. Microsoft would have to spend big by pushing its Surface tablet out at $199 or less and hugely promoting it, just to get some traction. No doubt a low Surface tablet price would piss off OEMs too.
Mobile users do upgrade more frequently though, so if there ever was a market awaiting a gimmick this is the one. The gimmick can’t be a tiled user interface. There’s gotta be something more that makes your mouth water and melts in your hand.
The OEMs are Microsoft thralls. There is no where else for them to go.
I think what may very well happen is that all the people who are eager to get a Windows 8 tablet/laptop hybrid are going to show all they nay-sayers how wrong they were to forcast a failure.
The OS really does shine, and it may start off slow, but I think it will gain a lot of traction over time and become a very popular product. I highly doubt that it’ll eclipse iPad and Android tablets like Windows on standard PCs does with Macs and Linux — but I suspect that it’ll be a close match between the three. And we’ll have three very solid options.
I predict that Windows RT, despite being the cheaper option of the Windows 8 devices, will sell less. It may be a good tablet OS for people who purely want to consume media on it, but people who want to continue to run their current software will likely see the benefit of paying a bit more to get an actual computer capable of doing everything they do now.
Everyone knows the even-numbered releases are a mess:
DOS 2.0
DOS 4.0
Windows 2.0
Windows 4 (aka 95) (actually, it was ok, 98 was better)
Windows 6 (aka ME)
Windows 6NT (aka Vista)
DOS 6.0 was pretty good; except for the patent infringement, the law suit, the DOJ issues, ….
I really try to respect the opinions of the people who dislike Windows 8, but I have to say that it appears that they’re not thinking about things hard enough.
Yes, the new UI is a drastic change, but it’s far from a disaster. Yes it’s difficult to use with a mouse on current hardware, but the goal of Microsoft is to make this primarily available on new upcomming hardware. All the hardware partners like Dell, Samsung, HP, etc.. are making awesome looking hybrid laptop/tablet devices that are touch enabled and come with a keyboard. And new desktop devices will be similarly enabled with touch.
All the hardcore power users may very well wish to stick with 7 for their reasons, but I think that Windows 8 will be far from a failure. And I don’t think that it will be much of an issue for new users. After all, the less-than-experienced among us who start using it will likely be using it on a touch interface via a tablet or all-in-one device for the desktop.
But we shall soon see for sure. People just need to stop likening it to Vista. Vista RTM was perfect in my opinion, but then again I had bought a brand new computer designed for Vista, where there were zero driver issues and blue screens and all that crap that people complain about. Vista wasn’t the problem — it was the device manufacturers releasing poor drivers, esp for older hardware.
The biggest downside right now is all the negative press that the uber nerds and people who don’t care to even think beyond “the UI is so different!” is giving the OS. Also, the flawed mentality that “every second version is crap”. Some people, for this reason, won’t even give it a try. But once they do (if it takes SP1 for it to happen, then so be it), and on hardware designed to take advantage of it, I think they’ll like it.
I agree with you, there are an awful lot of people doubting Windows 8 before it is even officially on the shelf.
Though I disagree on two points.
1. Windows Vista was a complete disaster, not on the scale of Windows ME, but certainly not a mistake Microsoft can afford to repeat.
2. Perhaps I use Keyboard shortcuts to readily, but the use of the Windows key and search functions has negated much of my need for the mouse when performing standard desktop tasks. I can fit 90% of the programs I need in the Task Bar, and the rest I search for.
I don’t have a problem with the UI on a phone or tablet. The current UI is relatively good and intuitive…on a phone or tablet. The problem comes in when they force a UI designed for a handheld device onto a desktop. If you have a UI optimized for the desktop, why ruin it? The UI on Apples workstations and mobile devices are different. There is no practical reason for what Microsoft is doing. So why are they doing it?
If Bob (the Cringely, not the OS) is right and the reason is to count all the PC sales as mobile OS sales, that’s pretty silly.
What makes this situation even more ridiculous is this… In the USA on average 4% of the total cell phone market renews their contracts and replaces their phones each month. All Microsoft has to do is get an acceptable OS out for phones and tablets, and a community of application developers. When this happens they can start building market share, attacking a new 4% of the market each month. Microsoft could produce the best mobile OS ever and next month the best market share they can expect is 4%. Gaining market share is a slow 4% a month process.
Microsoft — please regain your perspective!
As an arthritis patient. I can work happily with a screen, mouse,keyboard or touchpad. There is no way I want , or wish to use a touch screen, apart from the pain and tiredness, what about the FINGERPRINTS? regular screens are bad enough….
Koolade. Windows is Miceosoft’s Koolade, and they drunk their own Koolade.
Apple too based their tablet and phone OS on their desktop OS. They had to becaus they weren’t all that big when they were working on the iPhone. In fact, they even called it Mac OS X for the iPhone. Only later did it become iPhone OS X., and then iOS.
The problem is that Microsoft had been pushing Windows as a tablet OS for a decade, and they even had a Window phone OS with a tiny taskbar. The iPhone and the iPad should have shown Microsoft that they were wrong. Unfortunately, Microsoft has drunk their own Koolade. See, Microsoft is saying, Windows is both a a wonderful tablet OS and a powerful desktop OS just like we always told you! And, Windows is also a non-dairy dessert topping too! Windows is the answer to all of lifes problems.
Originally, the Microsft phone OS was going to be called Metro OS. But, thT would mean Windows isn’t a good OS for phones and tablets. Notice how the Metro name has disappeaed? Officially, it was a trademark issue because there was something named Metro in Germany. Really? When Apple wanted to call there phone the iphone, they had to negotiate the trademark away from Cisco. No, Microsofr wanted the Metro name to die.
After all, it might have competed with Windows for the spotlight.
I’ll clearly be in the much hated minority here, but I loaded Windows 8 on my old clunker of a laptop last weekend. I was nearly at the point a month ago where the laptop needed to be retired. But Windows 8 has made a huge difference. It is much quicker and more responsive, and yes the user interface does take a little getting used to but after testing the Release Candidate I learnt to prefer it.
I completed my Windows 8 install via an upgrade from Windows 7 that had only recently been installed from scratch. So the new lease on life for this old puppy is not simply a Windows reload.
Further to this, we also recently had a booth at a corporate tech expo, we had a range of tablets including iPad’s and the Samsung Galaxy. We had loaded a Samsung Slate up with Windows 8, and very surprisingly to me it was the star of the show. All the consumers and corporate CIO’s loved it.
I don’t believe Windows 8 will be a resounding success, but I think there is enough benefits in there to give it the momentum it needs.
Lets me make this clear, Apple is not sharing the same code base for the OS and iOS. Yes they are very much related and Apple has brought in some features from iOS into Mountain Lion. But they are not the same OS and never will be. I think M$ thought like most people that Apple was using the same base and they thought what the hell, we can do it too. I agree that the M$ board needs to clean house and get someone to run the company that can make some good decisions.
Both Microsoft and Apple use the same types of chips (either x86 or ARM) so they need a separate “code base” for each. I suspect whether Windows uses one or two code bases depends more on how narrowly you define the term. Clearly WinRT and Window 8 desktop are different. Eventually WinRT may take over everything to the same extent as iOS will. For the sake of compatibility with current programs, the Win 8 desktop and OSX will be around for a few more years.
In the previous versions of Windows each new iteration was an evolutionary step. With Windows 8, it is a paradigm shift and the corporate culture at Microsoft has gone all in for Metro (or whatever they call it). So I don’t see a shift in their strategy any time soon even if it is a flop sales wise. They will stay the course until they have a crisis like at the level where Steve Balmer is ousted. Given their direction, I predict that they will pursue an even more aggressive merging of the desktop with the tablet paradigm to frustrate desktop users even more. Note, even Microsoft calls the traditional desktop legacy meaning it is on its last legs. This is like the Netflix fiasco where the they tried to shift the emphasis to streaming when they didn’t have the content lined up. They almost destroyed their own company. Likewise, Microsoft is jettisoning the traditional desktop in their strategy before they should. It is a whacky business plan!
One thing I note as people use Windows 8 is the common theme that users say is, “you have to get used to it.” I see this said over and over. This is not a shining achievement if you force the user base to say this as a justification as to why they are sticking with Windows. It is a real indicator that Microsoft didn’t think things through at the design level of Windows 8 when users are hit with the “jarring” user experience of switching between the the desktop and metro.
“One thing I note as people use Windows 8 is the common theme that users say is, “you have to get used to it.” I see this said over and over. This is not a shining achievement if you force the user base to say this as a justification as to why they are sticking with Windows. It is a real indicator that Microsoft didn’t think things through at the design level of Windows 8 when users are hit with the “jarring” user experience of switching between the the desktop and metro.”
I disagree entirely here. Every major refresh of Windows, Office and MacOS has taken some getting used. to.
Windows 3.1 to Windows 95
Windows 2000 to Windows XP (Probably not as large)
Windows XP to Windows Vista (not a sterling example, but Windows 7 is more Vista UI than it is XP)
Office 2003 to Office 2007
MacOS 9 to MacOS X
I agree that Metro is a big shift, but I disagree that simply saying “You have to get used to it” is an indictment on the product. I much prefer Office 2007 & 2010 to Office 2003. The UI took some getting used to and I hated it initially, but I would not go back now.
The success of the Metro UI should be judged on what people think of it in two years, not what people think during the transition phase. The other measure of success will be based on are there enough other new benefits in the OS to encourage users to make the shift and live through what will be several months of torture getting used to the new UI.
I think you are missing the point that Windows 8 is a huge “paradigm” shift. Every example you gave shows evolutionary changes in that they build on what came before. There is nothing wrong with making paradigm shifts, but microsoft is doing in such a way that is compromising the whole UI. The metro interface is orthogonal in its design goals to the desktop interface and thus by its nature creates a jarring user experience through cognizant dissonance. So people saying you have to get used to it is not because some of minor UI changes, but that two different incompatible paradigms of interfacing with your computer are being forced together in such a way that people are trying to put the best spin on a bad design. The fact you have to say you have to get use to it means there is an inherent lack of intuitiveness which any layman can point at in Windows 8. It would be easier to build an electric plane than to live with what they did in Windows 8!
“Amuck”????
Bob is on a roll and nailed this one. MS should have released Windows 8 as a tablet/phone OS. They could have released a desktop OS at a later time. The money is current in tablets and the desktop is safe and stable for MS. The continued insistence of using “Windows” on all platforms is just plan silly.
Explain to me why a laptop should have a totally different UI than a tablet. Why should the tablet have easy software and the laptop not? Why should adding a photo to an e-mail be hard on a laptop and simple on a tablet? Just because a laptop has a keyboard and a touchpad it should be hard and cumbersome to use?
Adding a Flickr photo to an e-mail:
Windows 8: in the e-mail click on Add Attachment. Select Photo. Select Flickr. Select photo. Done.
Windows 7: go to the Flickr website. Select the photo. Right click. Select Save Image. Select a location on your drive. Remember the location. Go to the e-mail. Click on Add Attachment. Select the remembered location on the drive. Select the photo. Done.
I’m surprised no one compared Win 8 to Windows 3.1. Eventually every vendor selling Windows 3.1 machines had their own desktop/dashboard interface to make up for the fact that the Windows interface was so clunky.
Of course most of them went overboard on graphical (at the expense of interface) and ended up in crapware territory.
Perhaps this time it will flip flop. Vendors will load machines with their own “functional and familiar” desktop/dashboard/toolbar to make up for metro’s clunky interface. The vendor who ships the “SenseUI” for the metropocalypse stands to do very well.
That is a good point. Most people seem to talk about the UI as if it is the OS. It’s not, it is just a program running under the actual OS (use task manager to kill explorer under XP and all that happens is that your desktop goes away and can just as easily be restarted by the OS that is still running). As such it is easy to replace it to provide users with a choice of UIs. “Choice” is an under used word in this discussion. One size does not fit all as different people have different requirements.
Unfortunately this disease of trying to turn everything into a smart phone is not confined to MS and Apple. Canonical have caught it too and many Ubuntu users have unplugged the default UI and replaced it with something that better fits their requirements.
Yes, Ballmer and Sinofsky need to go now.
[…] course, I’m not alone predicting Windows 8’s demise. But since the new runtime and environment hordes of Windows programmers are supposed to write […]
Non-iOS platforms have only two things going for them at this point. One is providing form factors and hardware features Apple chooses not to provide. The other is providing software integration features Apple chooses not to provide.
Perhaps the seminal example of the first are the Nikon’s Coolpix S800c and Samsung Galaxy S camera. The larger 4″+ Android phones are another. Microsoft are trying to differentiate this way a bit with the Surface devices, but they’re just too much like iPads. 7″ Android tablets had a chance, but a drought of suitable applications mean they’ve lost their window off opportunity and are about to get dumped into the dustbin of history by the iPad mini.
On the software side, I’m thinking of highly specialised systems such as checkout terminals, large medical imaging systems, the sorts of specialised things you see PCs being used for in shops, factories and airline terminals. Microsoft has generally owned this sort of application because MS platform developers are two a penny and the hardware is a commodity. Did I say Microsoft? well actually this is the sort of business generally associated with big systems integrators such as IBM.
So we’re back to Microsoft becoming IBM again. They’re doomed!
Windows 8 will be a massive success.
Why? Because a month from now if you want a PC it will have Windows 8 installed on it. Simple as that; you’ll have no choice.
Hopefully they’ll be an upgrade license to allow you to run Windows 7, so that you can use the PC for creation and not simply consumption. And that’s really the difference between the two OSs. 8 is for content consumption, 7 for content creation.
Ballmer is a numbers man. He seen the rise in mobile OSs, from iOS to Android, and wants a share of it. He’s gone all-in with a one-look-fits all. This time rather than trying to fit the Windows Start theme on to a mobile, he’s taking a mobile theme to desktop.
You have to conclude that Ballmer doesn’t use a PC, or any technical device, himself.
“Hopefully they’ll be an upgrade license to allow you to run Windows 7″…I doubt if anyone will pay for it since all you have to do is click on the desktop icon in 8 to run an improved version of Windows 7, and of course get used to the simplified, although different, method of finding stuff with Metro.
And if you really must make Windows 8 look like 7 there’s an app for that: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
And those apps don’t work any more apparently!
But one of the problems is that Microsoft are making you less and less efficient at using your desktop PC to produce work.
Here’s today’s example. I’m doing emails (Windows Live Mail) to several people, but I’ve got to do an individual one to each as they’re ever so slightly different. So I copy the text from one and paste in to the other email. But my line spacing goes, leaving me having to re-insert them all again. My work-around is to open Notepad and paste in to it first, then copy from there and paste in to the new emails. It then works as it should (and how it did in Windows XP).
Why are we having these wonderful OSs that are mighty impressive, but can’t do really simple and basic tasks easily?
This article is dated August 23rd: https://www.webpronews.com/windows-8-gets-the-start-button-back-with-this-app-2012-08 , which is fairly recent and after the final version of Win 8 was released. (I haven’t tried it myself.) I agree the “Windows Live” versions of Mail have not been an improvement since some old functionalities were buried so deep they were hard to find. For Windows 7, I’m using the version meant for XP (2009 the one without the ribbon). It’s still available but I think you may not be able to use Messenger with it since the Messenger program requires Live Essentials 2011.
After avoiding Windows for the last ten years, I took a chance on Windows Phone 7.5 and I love (love!) the Metro interface for mobile. It’s simple and relatively consistent, and obviously designed by a small team that sweated the details. It’s very Apple-like that way, and yet in no way derivative of iOS.
But now I’m afraid that there is no upgrade path for this excellent product. I’ve run Windows 8 on a desktop, and it’s much more typically Microsoft: backwards compatible to a fault. I don’t want a desktop on my phone. I don’t think I even want a filesystem (though that would certainly be different from other mobile OSes).
Windows 8 should have been an alternative OS for mobile and touch computing, not the everyday desktop offering. Then users could approach Metro on its own terms, where it really shines. Did Windows 7 really need an upgrade?
Good article and spot on.
You’re implying, correctly, they shot it out the door in beta. Windows 7 is what Vista became. Windows X will be quite the winner (gawd, don’t even bother with 9, it was a service patch and lousy(….oops… sorry… too much time travel this week) uh….the next one after 8 won’t be good either they will have flopsweat and do even worse)).
But, they will soon (about 1.5-2 year) have a fabulous thing that isn’t really classifiable. It will be like the desktop in the original tron, but scalable from a phone to a e reader to a tablet to a desk surface to an executive WALL… all integrated all able to network all able to access Office level real production software and allow user integrated collaboration on the same big wall/desk. The problem is the really big screens are not ergonomic, but the lawsuits don’t hit until 2017 and they are mostly squashed.
Crap. I guess this means I’m not going to be able to get Win 7 for a new laptop this fall.
Not sure why people think Win 7 is that great, did nothing useful for me and often causes problems with the stupid GUI tricks it plays (changes/scrolls as you try to use things). Looking at Win 8, just wow. I have read opinions elsewhere indicating MS knows it is crap and expect to follow it up with something based on the feedback from Win 8.
Maybe they want the Desktop / Office world to ‘just go away’ so they can move on the something more fun.
Apple is moving the operating system from the device to the cloud. That way, all information will be available to all devices at all times. Think about it. Your car, your TV, your tablet, your phone, whatever, all having access to all your information at all times, without the necessity of syncing between devices. That’s data nirvana.
I’ve recently begun using a word processor called iA Writer that takes full advantage of iCloud. It’s great! I’ve seen the light. My phone and all my computers have instant access to all materials with no syncing between devices.
If only Adobe would “get on board.” Apple, write a check!
Ok, late to the party as usual…..
I recently tried the latest W8 Customer Preview and being a keen OS X fan – but with what I believe is an open mind and both 7 and XP VMs – didn’t get the “Wow!” I was hoping for. It’s as Mr Cringely tells it. Oh dear!
Metro is the mobile version front-end. Look, Apple weren’t so naïve as to give Mountain Lion a complete iOS front end – and lets be honest Apple own a mere tiny percentage of desktop sales, but they have clear heads and mostly know what they are doing.
I want Microsoft to succeed because I really think they did good with Windows 7. The fact my own taste swings more to OS X is neither here nor there. The future of desktop computing lies with MS and they should know better.
Or perhaps they do…
Ah Bob. You left out the best part of the Microsoft Bob story — that it was named after you! Microsoft wanted it to be a critical success and they thought by naming it after you, you’d like it and tell the world.
I remember when they send me an eval copy of Bob. They were interested in marketing it to the corporate world and wanted my feedback on the subject. I loaded it on one of our PC’s. Back then we had planned ahead and were buying PC’s with good processors, generous amounts of memory, and good graphics cards. When I booted the Bob PC it took quite sometime to load and get ready for use. The mouse clicks were definitely a pain. It was completely unaware of a LAN and information beyond the PC’s hard disk. It was SLOW.
I told Microsoft I did not think it was a good fit in the business world, but in a very nice way. That triggered a two week debate with a Microsoft manager who really wanted to change my mind.
I kinda wish I had that set of Bob diskettes today. I wonder how it would work on my 8-way 3Ghz PC. I bet that puppy would appear to be hyperactive on a fast system.
My wife has a Nokia phone with Win 7.5 on it. Works very nice on the phone.
Windows 8 on a PC adds a lot of overhead, but little improved functionality. It’s not worth it. It might not be the joke Bob was. But it is lining up to be loved and respected as much as Vista.
So if you abbreviate Windows 8 as W8, how do you say it?
“Wait” ?
Is this a bad omen or just trivial?
Good one Mart !
Many years ago at the height of Microsoft’s antitrust shenanigans I observed there were many companies in the PC software business who put themselves out of business. They did more damage to themselves than Microsoft could ever do.
Today there is nothing keeping Microsoft from becoming a major part of the phone and tablet market. The market is open and fair; ready for anyone to earn their share of the business. The keyword here is “earn.” The only thing keeping Microsoft from being successful is Microsoft.
The Metro interface or any UI designed for touch screens is doomed on a desktop platform, it only makes sense on mobile and laptop devices where the screen is easily accessible.
Desktops may be in decline, but in the workplace at least most people use their laptops in a desktop manner i.e. a docking station and generally everyone is happy with keyboard and mouse control.
Apple are doing it right by slowly adding the relevant bits of iOS into Mac OS, not forcing you to use the same interface.
As Dvorak famously said about the mouse in 1984 “There is no evidence that people want to use these things.”
I think Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are bold beautiful moves by Microsoft. Even Steve Woz said he thought Mr. Jobs was incarnated at Microsoft. I had to get a Lumia 900 Windows Phone for free after my old iPhone died. I was waiting it out until the iPhone 5 came out in a few months. Now I am a Windows Phone convert. It is better that ios / iphone in many ways that are hard to explain. It reminds me of the feelings of satisfaction when I first switched to a Mac. Trying to explain that to Windows users happy with the ordinary majority way was similarly hard. You just have to try it and the key – use it- for a week and you would see.
I think it is similar for Windows 8 – force yourself to use it a week and you might not go back. There will be some great clean modern apps coming on the metro start screen. These will be similar to iOS ipad apps in power and usability even with a mouse or trackpad.
And the whole desktop gui has been cleaned up away from the gaudy 90’s look. It is more like OSX in the clean toned down look but not as beautiful.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want any of my personal info or history on anyone’s cloud – be it Apple, Google, Microsoft, anyone.
I’m quite happy to live in the stone age rather than let any corporation have one byte of information about me or my spending habits.
Maybe there is more truth in Bob’s column than we thought. Checkout: http://myitforum.com/myitforumwp/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/24B809A61DA3E5F5D98D6AC0EDB04D90EAEA9D86.jpg
More pictures of Balmer and friends holding tablets: http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-live-blog-tablet-announcement/
I thought it was so simple (but what do I know): move forward with the Phone 7/Metro UI for phones and tablets (the growth markets). And simply go into maintenance mode on the desktop with Win7. Done.
7/Metro is/was moving in the right direction (my 2 cents as a casual user). And Windows 7 is fine as it is. Just milk it for the mainstream that does not need or want change.
it’s that simple. has no one in Redmond read G. Moore or Clayton Christensen?
The reports of Windows 8′s death are greatly exaggerated. There is a journalist from the 80s who is still running his “Computor Edge” magazine and offers the only unhyped description of Windows 8 I’ve seen: http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/3034/coverprint.htm . [This post is not meant to be a duplicate but a replacement for the one with 3 links that is “awaiting moderation”.
I haven’t read a lot of reviews of Windows 8 yet, but I have to say most of the others have all been along the lines of “…work of art…” and “…visionary…”.
The other terrible review was from a gaming site…
So, I don’t know what to think yet. But I put aside a spare partition labeled “Win8”, so I’ll probably have to try it…
Yes, the reason I like an easy user interface that normally is not adjustable by the user is that I only want to “drive” my computer, and not have to work under the hood, do manual shifting, etc. Computers should be our slaves and not the other way around. In the early days, computers did not have the horsepower to help you, but now they can be much easier to use. I have worked on DOS/Windows/Linux, and maybe a few other variants, but memorizing all those text commands and syntax took up too much of my time. I just want to get my work done without additionally having to remember all the obscure computer commands. Yes, Windows and Office have GUIs, which is a great improvement, but they still lack “slick” and “easy”.
For example (not Windows, but an MS issue), in Excel 2011 for my Mac, I used to easily type a text box annotation on Excel graphs; just type on the command line and press return: a text box shows up on the graph. Now with Excel 2011 there are six click-steps: Insert, Picture, Shape, Rectangle, Letter Boxes, and Fill Color. They tell us that they have a development lab where they watch ordinary mortals doing work with the computer, and adjust the program’s behavior to match what ordinary persons do. Never in my life could I imagine that this sequence of keystrokes is what an ordinary person would think of!
BOB failed not because of any programming defeciency, but because it required 8 Mb of ram at a time most PCs had 2-4. More analogous would be Dos 6.0. There was high consumer resistance to Dos 5 and Win 3.1. Main problem? Too expensive and not necessary to run most software. Dos 6.0 was released at an intro price of $40 rather than $100. Demand for 6.0 was so high CompUSA employees had to use personal vehicles to keep it in supply. THAT is what Microsoft is shooting for again.
Microsoft BOB failed because it totally, profoundly and in pretty much every conceivable way sucked as a human-computer-interface paradigm.
The end.
Good old Microsoft. I think they are lost in the woods now without a GPS.
This digital binary function of a good version and then next a “bad” version seems to go way back to the ’90’s. But it will give them a starting point to learn from.
The equation is WinXP=1 Vista=0 Win7=1 Win8=0 must be relative to developement teams or something! DOS even had this type of issue version to version.
She said something like “We came up with many concept characters” …
blah blah blah, “and have decided on a dog and a paper clip”. Having
seen the Beetle, I said “What was wrong with the car, I like the car”.
And Melinda said “We didn’t choose the car, because car’s can’t talk”.
I said, “Sure they can, what about Herbie, he goes beep-beep, and can
dogs talk anyways?”. She said “People accept that dogs can talk, and
they don’t accept that cars can talk and converse”.. you get the
idea… that’s about when I remembered how difficult it was to get audio to sync to video with sound-blaster cards….
Story told from perspective of under-resourced, under-paid, over-worked multimedia team person, asking questions from 2 PHDs, an over-resourced, over-paid, over-educated, and silly group. True story…
The first time I caught on to the massive design change MS was taking windows products through (Big fonts, google like clean space- that isn’t really clean at all- Blotches of UGLY primary, secondary and 8-bit color schemes, etc) I was immediately sickened.
Upon learning that thie overall strategy was to change the whole “look and feel” to their own products, while merging one design into many platforms, I immediately thought “this is too complex, even with MS’s unlimited budgets, and reaches too far without apparently any common sense. How true that “they’ll be little to no help in the tablet and phone markets ” where nobody will care until all the bloatware comes literally crashing all around.
If I, a lowly end-user with a rudimentary skill set of power-use and desktop repair experience, can look at a color scheme and get annoyed, MS is in trouble.
Bob, I just re-read “Accidental Empirers” again (a classic! ) so I am not surprised at the level of ego, delusion, selfishness, and straight out ignorance of end-users actually ability to change and desire for change on the front end pervades throughout this decision.
“This is not good but I’m fairly confident it will also be shortly reversed.” I hope so. But some things can’t be undone. For me, I want to like Windows, and keep upgrading. But the MS “we know better than you about what you want” got old with ME, where 98 was better off just being upgraded with a service pack ( i know, it’s about the money). It got ridiculous with Vista, where XP was superior to a NEW release. With Windows 7 i thought “ok, maybe they will settle down with the corny names, intelligence insulting shortcuts, and needless improvements just for upgrading ($$$) sake”.
I was wrong.
Okay, I am going to be up front and mention that I am a windows developer.
I also have an Android phone and am currently out of contract and wondering what to buy for a phone.
Additionally, my history started on the Apple ][+ and //e so I have a lot of reverence for Apple.
So, here is my 2 cents.
I have been cringing with Microsoft ever since Windows Phone 7. It has been like watching a 3 stooge’s episode. Additionally, since I am a developer my job has been very painful as WPF, Silverlight and other development technologies have been cast to the roadside. However, my mind has been changing about Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Microsoft is making a big user interface changes and often people don’t like change. People will initially revolt and dislike the changes that have been made to the UI. However after a bit of time the desktop users will get used to the new interface and some may come to like it ( and some maybe not ). But lets be realistic, the start button isn’t the end all of user interfaces either. It is just that it’s familiar to PC users today. People will quickly become used to the metro interface for app launching and control panel. Thankfully the guys at Samsung have already created S Launcher, a start button replacement. But remember these UI enhancements have been around a long time and some will want to use them and others will simply use to Metro. This is because change isn’t always so bad.
So let’s look at things. The Metro UI is a step backwards for legacy users. Windows 8 users will be using PC’s for other reasons than the start screen and the way the control panel works. Photoshop, Excel, AutoCad users will not be switching to an iPad or Windows RT anytime soon. They will move to Window 8 for other reasons.
Does Windows 8 offer anything else but this big UI change? As I’ve watched the product unveil over the last year I have noticed improvements in areas that people aren’t talking about ( Everyone comments on Metro/Bob). Window 8 is fast which really means it’s not slower than Windows 7, like Vista was slower than XP. So we are not stepping backwards with application performance by using Window 8. Networking (SMB 3.0) shares are tremendously faster when Windows 8 computers talk to Windows 8 computer or Windows Server 2012. Not many realize the improvements in the new SMB 3.0 implementation but it now utilizes your almost your entire bandwidth. So, to my family it means multiple movies can be streamed from the server without network congestion or movies stuttering. It may not be big but we all love faster. Another new feature in Windows 8 is continuous backup using the new volume shadow copy. This feature protects my picture and songs and makes sure they are always backed up. Let’s consider pricing, these new features are paltry $39.99. It’s cheaper than Battlefield 3 if you can get over the Metro blues.
So, we are not letting PC users be PC users anymore. Microsoft is pushing Metro on everyone like it or not. Even Windows 2012 server will use the Metro Interface. So all the tech geeks will learn this new interface and become fluent in it. Surface and Windows 8 tables will grab the corporate market simply because they integrate with Active Directory and can be easily managed by IT.
This gives Microsoft time and introduces the Metro interface to a lot of people. Let’s say after some time that people decide it’s not so bad after all. Maybe this gives Microsoft the opportunity to compete with Android in the tablet space. If Surface RT is only $199.00 then there are a lot of people that will give Metro a chance. And maybe metro starts being the alternative to Android that actually works consistently ( how odd to say that about windows? )
Now let’s talk about touch.. I’m not a touchy feely guy. I have four 27” monitors on my desk at work and none of them have touch capabilities. Sadly, I don’t think work will buy me new monitors so that I can have the full Windows 8 touch experience. Here comes a little company called LeapMotion. They make a little box for only $70.00 that can track your hands and all your fingers in front of you monitors. It’s cheap and turns my investment in four monitors into a touch experience. Microsoft should buy LeapMotion and include one with the Windows 8 upgrade license.
Even if Windows Metro is not the huge success I do not believe it will be a huge failure like Vista. It will get Metro exposure that will cross bread between PC, tablet and phone if it can stand on its own. From what I have seen it can stand on its own but it’s not an iPad or iPhone as Android wants to be.
I have come to some rather harsh conclusions about Android. Simply put Android is the Windows 95 of mobile devices. People buy it and use it because they have a contract, but after their purchase out of frustration, they wish they had an iPhone. Honestly, I was expecting to replace my Android with an iPhone 5 but now I’m going to wait and see what the Windows 8 line looks like. My first requirements for a phone are that it always dials when I need it to. Second, I would like to have some apps. My wife’s iPhone 4s does this and my Android doesn’t. I am going to see what Windows 8 offers before I stand in line for an iPhone.
Sorry if I’m all wrong.. its just my current thinking.
-Chris
Thanks Chris. As a non-developer, Windows (and Galaxy S3) user, and follower of Paul Thurrott’s “winsupersite”, I tend to agree except for the pricing comments. The $40 price so far is only an introductory upgrade special. We don’t know if it will apply to installing Win 8 on a blank drive, nor do we know if it will remain $40 beyond the introduction. On the same size screen, I much prefer my umpc running Windows 7 to the Galaxy S3, especially for reading Cringely’s column and comments. With Windows, I have more control of text size, “find on this page” to look for recent posts by date, zoom, and horizontal scroll elimination.
Microsoft is selling it for $40
Come on.. they already know its a failure.
Robert is absolutely correct.
Wait for W8 SP1 it will be the best thing since XP SP3.
Of course by then it will be banned by Corporate and we’ll be waiting for Windows 9 or Windows IX
[…] predicts a failure: What we have here is the Microsoft Bob effect, where change runs amuck simply because it can, […]
Hiya. I noticed your website title, “I, Cringely Windows 8, Users 0?” does not really reflect
the content of your internet site. When creating your website title, do you think it’s best to write it for Web optimization or for your viewers? This is something I’ve been struggling with mainly
because I want great search rankings but at the same time I
want the best quality for my website visitors.