Forty-one years ago this summer I was a young investigator working in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and Washington, DC for the President’s Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island, a big federal investigation chaired by Dartmouth Professor John Kemeny, who is best known as the father of the BASIC programming language. I learned a lot that summer and fall not only about nuclear accidents but about how governments and industries respond to crises. Some of those lessons apply to the current COVID-19 pandemic, which is also being poorly managed. This may surprise you (that 41-year-old lessons can still apply) but governments, especially, change at a glacial pace.
The two federal agencies with which I mainly dealt were the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). Both agencies had not long before gone through rebranding efforts so nearly all of the people I met had started their careers under the old brands — Civil Defense and the Atomic Energy Commission. These earlier identities are key to this story.
If you don’t remember Civil Defense, it was the agency charged with planning what to do during World War III — a thermonuclear war that would have killed millions. Civil Defense built bomb shelters all over the country in the basements of public buildings, equipping them with survival supplies. Civil Defense ran weekly air raid tests where huge sirens could be heard all over town. Civil Defense taught little kids like me to hide under our school desks in hopes that would save us in case the nukes ever dropped.
But the nukes never dropped and eventually Civil Defense began to look less and less crucial to U.S. policy. Understand we were still in the Cold War. The Berlin Wall still stood and Ronald Reagan wasn’t even running for President yet. But things were winding-down a bit, so it was decided that Civil Defense would be remade into FEMA and take on responsibility for other kinds of disasters like Hurricanes, tornadoes, and, well, nuclear accidents. Three Mile Island was their first one of those.
It didn’t take long for me to realize that the Civil Defense folks I was meeting with (everyone was a man) both missed the old days of sparring with the Russkies and they were very uncertain how to handle these new kinds of emergencies like Three Mile Island, which we called TMI. The company that owned TMI, General Public Utilities, or GPU, was saying the plant was their baby, that the accident was all under control, and they’d be back up and running in no time at all. It was a complete lie of course, but FEMA didn’t know that because FEMA didn’t know much of anything.
Bob: “What are you doing about the TMI accident?”
FEMA: “We’re monitoring the situation and supporting GPU, which seems to be doing a very good job.”
In one sense it is hard to fault FEMA because they didn’t know what they didn’t know. But we can fault them on a kind of structural level for deferring to GPU. We see this a lot in regulatory bureaucracies. If someone else is going to grab responsibility for that huge and probably un-winnable crisis — that steaming pile of shit — heck, let them. Stand aside and watch the dummies fail. That’s what FEMA did initially at TMI. It’s a good way to cover your ass, but not at all a way to solve an actual crisis or to help your country. FEMA wasn’t doing its job.
FEMA had to learn this same lesson again for Hurricane Katrina and then again for Hurricane Maria –two more huge disasters they were slow to enter.
Here is a point where we might ask what was FEMA good at back in 1979? What did they see as their real reason for existing? I quickly learned that FEMA was really good at making maps and studying prevailing winds. They saw their true function as planning for a nuclear attack with the goal of minimizing loss of life in those first 30 days. Toward that end FEMA (as Civil Defense) had created and continually updated elaborate plans for moving large groups of people shortly after an attack. They’d leave the dead and move the living to places where they had calculated there would be less nuclear fallout driven by the wind.
Theirs’ was a noble 30-year effort that resulted in ever more detailed and complex plans that diverted further and further from reality as the years passed. By 1979, FEMA’s plan — just for the northeast states — was to move more than 50 million people over the 72 hours following a nuclear attack — an attack that would presumably have also destroyed most infrastructure.
Look at this in the context of the current COVID-19 crisis. In the current case we aren’t being asked to move, we’re being asked to not move, which is way simpler. Actual movement is limited to medical cases, personnel, and supplies. How are we doing with that? The streets are quiet, no nukes have destroyed them, and all we are trying to do is move a couple million people around and supply them with what they need. How is that going? It’s not going well at all, frankly.
Now imagine it’s happening during a nuclear war.
The old CD/FEMA evacuation plan was a lot like that GPS routing algorithm in your phone that has you make seven extra turns to save 0.3 miles on a 100-mile trip. IF they could move 50 million people from where there was more fallout to where there was a little less fallout (but still fallout) then a few thousand more people were calculated to survive if they actually made it to their destinations. And 30 days after that? That’s where the Civil Defense plan stopped, so people who were now miles away from their homes and presumably still dying of radiation poisoning were, after 30 days, completely on their own. Yeah, right.
I’m telling you this because yesterday the CDC and FEMA announced they are working on a back-to-work plan for America. Is this starting to sound familiar?
I’m not saying the FEMA/CDC plan is bad. I simply don’t know their plan. But if I had to bet I’d say the plan isn’t very good. And the reason it isn’t very good is because — just like the old CD evacuation plan — it is starting with a fundamentally bad idea, which in this case is “how do we get the economy up and running by June 1 while killing the least people?”
They won’t say that’s the goal, but that is the goal because it is President Trump’s goal.
The CDC and FEMA wouldn’t be even going public with a plan at this point if they weren’t being pushed into it by the White House.
So their goal is wrong. It probably should be “how do we eventually get back to work with minimal loss of life?” They may even say that’s the goal. But we all know the real goal is “how do we get back to work by June 1 with minimal loss of life?”
The difference between those two goals is probably somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 dead people — people who will have died so Donald Trump has a hope of being re-elected.
In my meetings with FEMA back in 1979, I asked questions that, I thought, got to the heart of the TMI crisis management problem. They didn’t like my questions. They didn’t like that I was asking questions at all. And that’s when they would start tapping their West Point class rings on the conference table.
To the fine men of FEMA in 1979, I was a punk. But I was a punk working for the President of the United States. And that President, Jimmy Carter, was himself a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and had a post-graduate degree in nuclear engineering. Jimmy Carter was no punk, so the FEMA guys had to take me seriously.
Shit.
So they tapped their class rings on the conference table to let me know they were the adults and I was a punk. But the truth eventually became clear that they had little idea what actually to do and were mainly hoping GPU was telling the truth, that the nuclear accident would be over in a couple of weeks, and that life would get back to normal. Does this sound somewhat familiar?
$10+ billion and 41 years later, GPU is bankrupt and dead and TMI is still costing money to fix.
Applied to COVID-19 that means we won’t be back to work by June 1.
At this point, I had planned to move on to my adventures with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which made FEMA look like Eagle Scouts. But this is too long already, so that will be my next column.
You give President Trump too much credit by saying his goal is “how do we get the economy up and running by June 1 while killing the least people.” His goal is only the first half of that question.
Bingo.
Hmmm. You read through all that and the total depth of your response is a Trump bash?
Truth hurts.
Scott Adams said the same thing the other day.
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The longer we keep things locked down, the more people will die due to lack of access to care, lack of supplies, lack of people noticing they need help, etc … not to mention anxiety, depression, disrupted routine, lack of daily purpose, and other mental-health consequences of isolation. Only exacerbated by the fact that people are running out of money.
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The sooner we open things up, the more people may die due to the healthcare system becoming overwhelmed once R0 has a chance to increase, thanks to people being social again.
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No matter the choice, and no matter the timing, people will die BECAUSE OF the choice we make. Zero way around this.
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With this in mind, the bedeviling problem is figuring out when is the best time to open, in such a way that minimizes un-necessary death, respects civil liberties, and is workable for the economy (noting that the health of the economy has a lot to do with people’s mental health, ability to fight infection, etc). No matter who the politician is, no matter who the experts are, there’s no way to get the perfect answer even if you’re trying.
“I’m telling you this because yesterday the CDC and FEMA announced they are working on a back-to-work plan for America. Is this starting to sound familiar?”
Fortunately for all of us, the Federal government doesn’t get to make this decision. As we’ve seen with the shutdown orders, this is something that is under state control. And the states are banding together in regional groups to share information and coordinate their plans, while ignoring the White House.
Good lord, this article has the ring of truth. My contact with the NRC was while a plant was being constructed. I was a contact system administrator for the Minerals Management Service at the time of Hurricane Katrina. (I was gone by the time of the Macondo Prospect.) So my experience with government agencies was much less than Mr. Cringely’s, but the story sounds just the same. And for COVID19, the adults have been systematically replaced by ass-kissing sycophants. Lord help us all.
And for COVID19, the adults have been systematically replaced by A NEW SET OF ass-kissing sycophants.
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There, I fixed that for you.
Of course the goal is to get back to work as quickly as possible. So 30,000 deaths are acceptable and 50,000 aren’t? Who are you to make that call? I certainly wouldn’t keep the economy shut down over the potential deaths of .006% of the United States population. A leader makes the tough call and has to withstand the (politically-motivated) criticism. Seems like Trump is willing to do that, and you wouldn’t.
“So 30,000 deaths are acceptable and 50,000 aren’t?”
Actually, that’s not what Bob said. It was closer to “X deaths are acceptable and X + (between 30k & 50K) aren’t”. But even that’s not what he said.
What he actually said was “The difference between those two goals is probably somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 dead people”. What he meant was that X deaths are inevitable; forcing a June 1 date would add 30k-50k more deaths to that.
And, to answer your question, yes, those extra 30k+ deaths are unacceptable. If you disagree, are you willing to make one of those deaths your own?
Would I take the risk with my own? Yes.
With that logic, we’ll never get back to “normal.” Why do we even allow driving since over 100 people die in the US every day from traffic accidents? Assuming you have kids, do you let them drive? Sounds like no.
If you agree with and support Trump’s decision making you can’t possibly believe that “normal” will ever again be within reach … even if the present crisis had never occurred. What do you define as “normal” with respect to your comment?
By normal, I simply mean Americans having the freedom go about their business as before the crisis in a great economy and incredibly low unemployment. Who doesn’t want that?
Scott said “Why do we even allow driving since over 100 people die in the US every day from traffic accidents?”
Poor analogy since driving a car is not horrifically contagious…
Wrong….driving a car IS totally horrifically contagious. 40,000 people a year die as a result of “catching” a deadly accident just by using their car, or risk “infecting” others by killing them with their car
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Being out on the road in your car imparts a certain percentage chance of being hurt or killed (i.e. getting infected with COVID), and hurting or killing (infecting) others.
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And just like wearing masks, we as a society have agred on a certain amount of restriction (speed limits, mandatory seat belt laws, road design, etc.) to mitigate the automobile driving risk….just as requirements for social distancing, masks, etc. have mitigated
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Could we cut down traffic injuries and deaths? Sure…..limit vehicle top speeds to 35 MPH and require every driver to wear a helmet. That would probbaly cut down deaths from 40,000 to 10,000.
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So….by your logic, we are KILLING 30,000 people a year so people can drive their cars faster than 35 MPH.
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I’m not arguing for or against increasing or decreasing the Coronavirus restrictions, I’m just saying that we as a society had agreed to a trade-off of benefits of certain activities that provide us commerce and lifestyle benefits (such as we get from driving) vs. the number of deaths it causes. Coronavirus restrictions are in the same boat.
Unfortunately studies of cities and their responses to the Spanish Flu have shown that, in the long term, cities that delayed or avoided implementing lockdowns suffered more economically than those that shut down earlier and harder. Mass deaths and sickness have a severe economic cost. Apart from overwhelming the healthcare system, even many people that eventually survive are out of work for a significant amount of time, plus the people caring for them also can’t work. Plus as the epidemic becomes more severe people start isolating and businesses have to shut down anyway. It really looks like there is no option to “choose the economy”.
Correct, there is no option to “choose the economy”, nor is there an option to “choose complete lockdown”. The trick is to balance them both, by lifting restrictions in a gradual manner. For example, as N-95 masks become widely available, I can imagine opening gyms with social distancing and mask requirements. I can also imagine opening movie theaters with the same requirements, but not serving food or drinks, since people would have to remove their masks for most of the movie while snacking. It should be up to the venue operators whether they want to open with restrictions or stay closed.
“The difference between those two goals is probably somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 dead people — people who will have died so Donald Trump has a hope of being re-elected.”
Cheap shot. You are pulling those numbers out of your rear end . How many will die if we don’t “restart the economy” ? I don’t disagree with your assessment of government agencies but the bottom line is that neither you, nor anyone else has the answers. At TMI no one died so it was just an expensive mess. It was an expensive mess, because “they” insisted on “doing something”. Would have been less expensive and harmful to humans if the reactor had simply been locked up and left alone for these 41 years. But then hindsight is 20/20, including yours.
I’m not sure what I have to say about this blog article which isn’t nice. Beginning with the bogus PhD which got you the job and a juniour marketing job not investigator job? The course Carter took was a six month none credit course in nuclear power is pretty standard for nuclear vessel officers. I’m not sure how this would qualify Carter to be an expert in wind speed and crowd management and logistics.
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I’m not expert in these issues but moving people from A to B would be using off the shelf skills of rounding people up, giving directions, and possibly building camps, I don’t expect motivation would have been a problem. As for the coronavirus pandemic South Korea has proven what happens when you take thing seriously. Ditto New Zealand, Iceland, Germany et al.
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Trumps shut down your pandemic team. You left that out. Trump is also a loony tunes running his presidency like the Mob-lite.
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This was another self-promoting name dropping Cringely nothing burger.
Yeah, this is more Cringely exaggeration. In his version, he’s the hero of the story, a steely-eyed young idealist on a mission from the President himself, staring down a whole conference table full of old stodgy men tapping their class rings.
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But if you read the Three Mile Island incident report here: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph241/tran1/docs/188.pdf you’ll see a different story.
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Mark Stephens is listed among the contributors to the report, sure. But is he in the Office of the Chief Counsel? No. Those were the people appointed by President Carter. He’s on the second page, one of 15 people on the “Public’s Right to Information Task Force”, which seems at best a secondary group.
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It’s sort of like when you go talk to Starfighters Inc. representing a space startup, sign no term sheets or contracts, and then claim that you’ve purchased all the Mach 2.2+ aircraft in the world. It’s just not true.
So what is your point? Trump is doing a good job then and no one will die?
Huh? Why would I, or anyone remotely sane, say that?
While I’m suspicious of our president’s motives, I agree with @Scott and @Neal that no one knows the cost of keeping the economy shut-down. That may cost more lives in the long-term.
Economies can get along on core elements while a lot of deadweight is inactive plus it doesn’t matter if you’re not making money because you’re not spending money on useless crap you don’t need either. What costs lives is disaster capitalists who don’t like paying tax or big corporations who lobby for a bailout while Universal Basic Income is treated like garlic to a vampire.
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South Korea prepared well and implemented strong measures almost straight away and kept its economy going. But then South Korea actually invests in its public services and infrastructure and has accountable politicians.
@WileECoyote: Agreed, and it just seems like more hypocritical bleating from the left-wing wacko Trump-Derangement Syndrome crowd who somehow never seems to notice the total failure of Democrats in similar situations…like near-dementia Nancy Pelosi telling people to come out to Chinatown on Feb. 28 or Bill Deblasio telling New Yorkers to “go out on the town” on March 4, or the entire Democrat establishment (along with their proganda arm CNN and MS-DNC) calling Trump a racist for shutting down travel into the U.S. from China, which saved thousands of lives while people like Pelosi and Deblasio have blood on their hands.
I think Trump, while not perfect, is trying to limit the assault on our civil liberties and and avoid the fascist-like power grabs you see by left-wing fanactics like Governor Whitmer of Michigan who passed a bunch of totally unlawful (at least without martial law having been declare) edicts that had no bearing on actually saving lives or keping citizens safe, and now has thousands of protesters around her capital building in response (albeit in their cars for social distancing). Good. Haven’t seen such an example of Democracy in action (i.e. the people’s right to air their grievances against government) since protesters wer banging on the doors of the Supreme Court against confirmation of Judge Kavanaugh, eh?
While it is admittedly hard to _not_ get political, it seems to me WileECoyote is throwing gasoline on a (smoldering) fire. So much so it seems more than a little Troll-like. Cripes. Both red and blues are imperfect, as are we all.There’s an Easter lesson in this, I think.
Personally, I like the analysis and historical context in the article, for it is thought-provoking. My long-passed father would ask me, “What are you going to do about it?” He was a man of action, yet one who deliberated. The larger lesson here seems to be either to not trust these governmental agencies, and/or to ask questions. My dad’s take: Ask the right questions of those in authority.
That said, things political have become incendiary and more than a little divisive. I worry for the US democracy, yet remain intentionally optimistic. I hope your next article, Bob, can paint a way from the darkness of the truth of history –to a brighter future for us all. What are the right questions, and how can we begin to rebuild alongside even wily coyotes?
Egad… I said “I’m suspicious of our presidents motives” (meaning “he might be doing this to get re-elected – and that’s not a good thing”). Then I put forth the idea that keeping the economy shutdown might ultimately cause more harm than going back to work on June 1. And this makes me a pyromaniacal troll?
Honestly folks, I’m not taking political sides here. Would just like to encourage us to consider all of our options. Sorry if it came across differently.
Gimme a break. If it were President Hillary Clinton in office right now, she too would have it in the back of her mind “Will what I do help me get re-elected later this year?”. Every politician able to be re-elected is thinking that. If it were Hillary thinking that would you have added the “and that’s not a good thing”? Therefore since politicians of both sides will be thinking that, it’s a bogus question that never needed to be asked or inferred as a bad thing. The only thing that matters is, Is it helping the most American People, as best as possible, given the circumstances known at the time? Will it Do Good, rather than just Feel Good?
Calm down Hannity.
Calm Down, Rachel
You do realize, don’t you, that COVID-19 came to the US from Europe, don’t you?
https://nationalpost.com/news/covid-19-u-s-coronavirus-outbreak-came-from-europe-flights-not-china-say-researchers
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html
… which is why I opined in favor of a travel ban from every hot spot as soon as it went hot. China, yes. Korea, yes. Italy, yes. Etc. Not because a travel ban is perfect (and certainly wasn’t perfectly executed), but because it’s a useful band-aid and can help buy us time.
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If only our story of getting testing ramped up wasn’t such a SNAFU. (sigh)
Gotta love those ad hominid attacks. It shows you have lost the argument and no longer have the capacity to argue in a coherent manner.
It’s “ad hominem” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem . In this case, it’s not so much an attack against Pelosi, as it is documented proof that she may have underestimated the problem at that time, just as the current administration did. I do agree the adjective in front of her name was unnecessary.
@Ronc – Fair enough. Good analysis. TURN NAME_CALLING MODE = OFF (anybody else recall the days of writing keyboard-operated DOS apps in dBase II?)
Trump didn’t shut down travel from China. It was left wide open for US residents and only excluded anyone who was a none resident had been to China in the previous two weeks. The lives saved claim has no particular evidence to back it up and no quantifiable responses have been forthcoming. In the US people just landed and wandered through packed airpports and onto packed public transport. In South Korea and China and increasingly in other places there was monitoring at airports on entry and quaranteen for 14 days after entry.
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Apart from that I have little interest in the details of US internal politics and whatever partisan gaslighting twaddle Fox watching rednecks have to peddle. Looking from the outside you just make America look stupid.
I was there at TMI as well, a 26 year-old SME contractor for the NRC through DOD and a company you love to make fun of. You may remember me as the young nuclear engineer that corrected the President in the control room when he thought TMI-2 was a BWR instead of a PWR. When he turned back on his way out and asked only me directly what I thought was the root cause, I caused a stir when I told him “incomplete instrumentation design”. The Westinghouse and GPU engineers just glared at me LOL. Just like the 737 Max. That answer made me lots of money in the (you say now dead) IT business.
Looking forward to your NRC posting. One of my tasks was to keep the commission people under control which wasn’t too hard. After correcting Carter in front of everybody, my DOD/NRC contract was not renewed, which turned out to be the best thing that ever happened in my life and career.
Disclosure: My name is in one of those neutron bomb patents, and I never got credit for it nor did I ever forgive Carter after he killed the project.
The neutron bomb project and a slew of other nuclear projects such as the nuclear powered missile and battlefield nuclear mortars were cancelled because of the risk of esclations and raising tensions.
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Why is I know more about critical elements of US policy than Americans who don’t seem to have a single clue about the rest of the world?
Still bored?
Individuals in state and federal government will be making decisions on when to “re-start the economy” and how to do it. What I am hearing and reading is that the federal government will provide guidelines and individual state governments will implement “economic re-start”. Obviously, what works for Wyoming is not the same as New York state.
Regardless, as pointed out by Cringely, individuals will be forced to make decisions that involve estimates of how many people will die over estimated time periods. I’m thinking that we will not hear anything like, “Idaho has decided to let approximately 50,000 people die in wave-1 (mid-2020) followed by approximately 25,000 deaths in wave-2 and wave-3 in late 2020.
To me, the issue is that the process of deciding what proportion of each states population is planned to die in each “wave” of economic re-start will be significantly different for say, California as compared to Texas. That means there will need to be some federal over-site to coordinate wave-death cycles.
Of course, the real question no one’s asking is… When will Mineserver LLC get back to work?
Screw the rest of the economy; When is Mineserver getting its government bailout?
Surely Crookely will put out an article explaining how his bailout request was denied and thus, because of COVID-19, he can’t get anyone their mineservers, right? If only his backers would stop coughing on him long enough to raise some money by launching satellites for his good buddy Mark Cuban, he would finish up his corona vaccine that the CDC personally asked him for and then he could get back to completely re-writing Minecraft to run on his antique mac portable.
Or something like that.
I mean, honestly, when Cringely posted his article on how COVID-19 was going to impact startups, I REALLY wanted to ask him how long it would be until we learned that both Mineserver LLC and Eldorado Space were sadly, unfortunately, surprisingly, and shockingly struck down by the killer virus.
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But I was in a more charitable mood back then and didn’t mention it.
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Roger, Jeremy, never give up. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER
Eh, it’s not so much dogged determination at this point as sheer boredom. Cringely is who he is and is never going to change. Mineservers are never going to ship. Photoshopped Eldorado rockets are never going to launch satellites.
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I still think Bob can add value to the world by chronicling the history of personal computing, but he seems to have given up on that. Oh well!
Obsession. It’s just not a men’s cologne.
Well, I already admitted to having a weird obsession with Cringely’s Eldorado lies, way back in the actual Eldorado post. So, yeah.
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We all have weird obsessions. Sometimes they continue for far too long, but often they die out naturally. Life moves on.
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It would be nice if Cringely would. If he admitted that a) Mineservers were dead, and b) Eldorado was never a real thing, we could all get on with our lives. I’d still like to hear his opinions on the tech industry and his chronicling of its history. But it seems he’d rather write weird, obsessive articles that paint him as the hero who will singlehandedly:
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a) Save millions of lives by recommending some amazing new wonder drug for heart disease that amazingly nobody else knows about, or
b) Save millions of lives by singlehandedly connecting billionaires with attractive models who are the only people who can deliver life-saving N95 masks, or
c) Save millions of future lives by preventing future Three-Mile Island disasters, like he did back in the day when he singlehandedly stared down tables of ineffective FEMA bureaucrats
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I don’t know, it’s almost like there’s some kind of theme going on here, or something. *shrugs*
A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.
Huh? What’s that supposed to mean?
You know, as someone who’s re-descovered Cringely after a long time, it’s kind of disheartening to see where he’s at today.
I have great memories of him back in the 1980’s writing for InfoWorld. I recall his column that was solely focused on the industry at that time, during that fondly-remembered innovative and progressive decade when we transitioned from Data Processing to MIS to IT, with insider gossip, industry predictions and stories of deals gone right or wrong, a bit of his personal life (“Pammy”) and a good deal of humorous anecdotes thrown in.
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It was great reading during a great era and Cringely really was on top of his game back then – I even remember meeting him at Comdex in Vegas in 1986 – I think he had some kind of “industry gossip” booth that there was a huge line to get into and meet the great Cringely, one of the “industry stars.”
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So I’ve been looking back on this forum and actually feel saddened by the strange turn he seems to have taken in the past few years, and the indignation and wrath it’s provoked in his current readership, of which 95% he seems to have brought upon himself – not only this Mineserver debacle thing, but making strange claims that aren’t true, whining about house burning down and vision problems, and bloviating on subjects that aren’t IT-related nor is he qualified to intelligently comment on, and overall having a 0% reliability factor.
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It’s Cringely’s column and he can do what he wants….but from what I’ve seen in looking at his past years of this forum my two cents is that Cringely should either go back to writing STRICTLY about what he was writing before – columns about the INDUSTRY – without all this other bizarre stuff thrown in about his political beliefs, disease control, space exploration, and most of all his false or exagerrated claims about all the great projects he’s doing (or did) to save the world. Judging by the response of his readers, he just keeps sticking his foot deeper and deeper into the manure pile he’s created.
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Either that, or better to just retire when you’re on top. Watching Cringely now reminds me of Ali’s or Mike Tyson’s last fights. Better to go out when you’re on top than plodding on well past one’s expiration date. Just as I’d rather remember young Mike Tyson rather than the ear-biting Typson, I’d rather remember Cringely fondly from the 1980’s and 90’s in his InfoWorld and “Accidental Empires” era – not the current shit-show. It’s painful to watch, I almost feel bad for him. WTF happened to the writer I remember?
@ People Who Live in Glass Houses Shouldn’t Throw Stones: I agree with part of what you say regarding Cringely’s statements that have lost credibility. By now we can take what he says with a grain of salt. Still, if it were not to this column, we wouldn’t get to read the hundreds of comments that appear here as a result. Also, as someone who has early signs of cataracts, I’d like to here more about his experience with the surgery. Nor do I mind hearing about his attempts at helping with masks, assuming the story is true.
@Ronc, I didn’t mean that Cringely should retire because I, and plenty others, don’t want to keep reading him. As you stated, judging by all the comments hes obviously still got plenty of readers who are gonna keep reading, me included as time permits.
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My meaning was what’s in it for HIM? It seems there’s nothing but disbelief, dissatisfaction and possibly even call it anger directed towards any of his claims or opinions from his writings in this venue – certainly no positive response – so why even bother to spend the time to keep putting the coilumn out there? I don’t think he’s making any money off it? Why keep it up? Boredom? Ego? If I was him I’d have given it up, but different strokes for different folks.
@JeremyReimer – Speaking of chronicling the hiostory of the PC, I’m halfway thru your “Triumph and Tragedy of OS/2” pieice – excellent! I remember that whole saga well and already read plenty of articles about it, but yours is the most complete and enjoyable reading I can recall (and that’s always such an enjoyable era to read about). Nicely done.
P.S. – Have you been told how easy it is to look for your name on Google and end up with a zillion pages on Jere
….a zillion pages on Jeremy Renner….Hawkeye in The Avengers? You don’t have any mutant blood, do you?
@RogerSinasohn:
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Ha ha, you absolutely get the prize for THE ABSOLUTE BEST COMMENT EVER on this entire forum.
Seriously, dude…..when I read your comment I was LITERALLY rolling on the floor from laughing so hard. Your touch of wry tongue-in-cheek humor, suddenly popping up nestled in the middle of everyone’s (including me) self-important pontifications was hysterical!
I vote for more “Roger Sinasohn style” humor moving forward….this forum’s gotten way too serious and too much bloviating. C’mon, dude, bring it on….I’d almost pay for it 🙂
It was pretty funny.
More likely he’s applied for a bailout.
Just like he probably made a claim to the insurance company for destruction of Mineservers that never existed. My sources tell me someone at AllState read this blog and they are looking into his claim.
Oh… within the context of Cringely’s article… another thing…
So, in getting ready for the “economic re-start” it seems like they have stopped pushing the ridiculous idea that there will be a COVID-19 vaccine next year. I think the “vaccine” was just a tool to help the public gradually adjust to the idea that this is going to have a very significant impact event.
There is no SARS vaccine and there is no MERS vaccine and the idea that we are going to get a covid-19 vaccine within 2 years is a completely ridiculous idea.
I live near one of the largest medical centers in the world and also one of the world’s top research universities. In my tiny island city, about 1/3 of the residence are physicians… medical MDs. I listened in on a group of neighbors who are involved with medical research and they were discussing the pandemic model for California (each state has its own model). There is no “Cringely down-wind” specialists here… what is going to happen in California is going to be unbelievable. I assumed “red” state models were going to be the most gruesome.
Anyway, the only point I was going to make – but, got sidetracked… is that they were discussing the Ebola vaccine and these knowledgeable people are feeling that within 10 years or so, things could look really good for respiratory illnesses like covid-19 – in regard to vaccines. So, there is some reason to be optimistic.
“Forty-one years ago this summer I was a young investigator…”
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Is this a new record? Less than 10 words into Cringely’s article and he’s already lying. Saying he was a “young investigator” is like calling a dishwasher a chef because they’re both around food and plates.
41 years ago Bob was 26. Since there are no formal degree or license requirements to become an “investigator”, I can’t think of a better way to describe someone, who’s 26 with an interest in becoming an investigative journalist, other than young investigator. Most likely he was being paid for his work at that age, making him a professional young investigator.
He worked as an information officer.
According to his Wikipedia article, his occupation is journalist. The phrase “information officer” doesn’t appear there. I couldn’t find a source describing him, at some point, to have been an information officer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_X._Cringely
If you read the Three Mile Island report here: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph241/tran1/docs/188.pdf
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Mark Stephens (the real name of Robert Cringely) is listed as one of the fifteen members of the “Public’s Right to Information Task Force”.
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In other words, an information officer.
Yes, Ron, we’re talking about 41 years ago, not what it says in his wikipedia article.
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This is so numbingly stupid, I’m not entirely sure what your point was. You claim he was a “young investigator,” I point out that the documents say he was an information officer, and you say no, he’s a journalist. Did you have a stroke between the first and second reply? If so, there are many specialty software programs useful in rehabilitation, I would strongly recommend against using the comments on this blog to do so. I wish you wellness and many safe sundowns.
There is nothing that says a journalist, young or old, can’t participate in a task force whose job it is to gather information. My point was he’s free to identify himself as a journalist, while doing other things. There are no legal or licensure requirements associated with that term.
He also implies a close connection with the President (“They had to take me seriously”). That seems doubtful. Yes, all executive branch agency employees work for the President. But this is written to imply something greater.
The actual quote was “the FEMA guys had to take me seriously”.
I choose quality of life over quantity. I’m over 60 and am willing to risk my life golfing, attending a baseball or football game or my son’s canceled college graduation, a once in a lifetime event. No meaningful life is spent indoors 24/7; that’s called prison. And I won’t hurt others if I practice social distancing. This violation of civil rights is absurd; the purpose was to avoid overload of the health care system, which we have largely avoided with the exception of NY and LA. Once again the Coasts determine policy for everyone else. We have a governor in PA who in clandestine fashion without review grants waivers for certain businesses but not others( in his family business) without explanation. Power corrupts for sure. The governor of MD prohibits me from visiting my vacation home, something I own. How can that happen in this country? I choose quality of life every time.
Christian,
It’s a matter of mathematics. If we put no quarantine policies in place – around 6 million Americans will die.
If we put extremely strict quarantine policies in place we might keep covid-19 deaths to less than 200,000.
And there is lots of middle ground.
I guess you prefer the 6 million dead scenario – and who is to say that is the wrong opinion?
@Christian: Wrong….NOT L.A. Yes New York. I’m not sure why everyone (well, not everyone, but alot) are doing the old “throw NY/LA together as the two evil ‘coasts'” when discussing the Coronavirus statistics.
That may (or may not) be true in other situations, but in this one it appears Calif. has done comparatively very well in terms of flattening the curve and actually ending up with a much lower number of COVID cases and deaths than anybody expected it to…and certainly much better than what had been predicted by the “experts.”
Not to make light of anyone’s suffering, but don’t look at the absolute number of cases and deaths, which of course will be high in a giant state of almost 40 million, but if you look at the numbers of cases and deaths as a percentage of the population, California’s actually in the lower half of all 50 states. Even L.A. County with its population of 10 million is doing a lot better on a percentage basis by numerous other metro areas, and of course the rest of Cali’s doing better.
Governor Newsom’s first press conference including a prediction of 20-25 million people in the state catching the virus at its peak. Way, way, way over-estimated. And I don’t care what political party he belongs to, I give him a lot of credit for having handled the crisis quite well, with decisive moves combined with appropriate Constitutional restraint…..so far everybody’s managed to take appropriate precautions of their own volition without the need for the Nanny-State over-stepping of authority and unlawful “orders” that a lot of other Governors and wannabe petty-tyrant state and municipal officials seem to feel is their prerogative.
No dog in this hunt, just wanted to defend my home state, where I no longer live, but was born and raised, and still a “native” at heart. FWIW.
This virus is likely to control the economy for some time to come. Presidents and governors can proclaim what they will, but outbreaks are going to shut things down wherever they occur, like it just did to the nation’s largest pork processing plant in a state that isn’t under lockdown. If we don’t get the spread under control, we’re very likely to see a lot more of that. A wrecked economy will kill a lot of people, and so will a wrecked food supply chain, and I don’t see any way we can keep them going while outbreaks are escalating exponentially wherever they occur, as we have seen. Overwhelm the health system, and the mortality rate from the virus goes way up. The experts say we simply must get the R0 (infection rate – how many others are infected by each individual who becomes infected) under 1 and keep it there, and that makes a lot of sense to me.
Even real journalists (not Cringely) fail to explain key issues properly. They’re too busy being reactive or being mouthpieces. Plus, hey, Americans. Learn to read articles sourced from outside your bubble.
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Actually, a vaccine could be available within three months or three years, or ten, or never. It’s an issue of resources and time compression and safety. Like nuclear regulation a lot of regulation is one size fits all boilerplate. It’s more of a stupid filter than anything else. Having read articles directly interviewing people developing vaccines it’s very clear what the basic issues of shipping a vaccine are. There are a range of promising leads. Protocols are being stripped to push things through quick plus there is already research in the labs on this type of virus from the SARS and MERS outbreak. The reason SARS and MERs didn’t get a vaccine is because they were contained fast but the research and computer models is helping speed development up. Anyone quoting doctors who say ten years is wrong. Doctors are general practicioners not virologists and basing their opinions on the old ways they learned at medical school before computer modelling was a thing. Best estimate is we can have one in a year if everything goes right. We may have to wait. In the meantime there will be 2-3 waves of this virus if it’s not contained.
“When Dr. Fauci said 12 to 18 months, I thought that was ridiculously optimistic,” Paul Offit, the co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine in the late 1990s, told CNN. “And I’m sure he did, too.”
Dr. Fauci has an important role of informing the public in regard to covid-19. A very challenging responsibility and I think he is doing a great job.
Within the context of what the Cringely article is about, I don’t think we have a FEMA/FRC TMI communication issue – other than you still have the situation where there is a concern that the public needs to be kept calm so that they do not over react and do stupid things like stock pile toilet paper.
It would be wonderful if we have a covid-19 vaccine sometime in 2021. In my opinion, Dr. Fauci keeps saying that in order to keep the general public in an appropriate frame of mind. I have no problem with that.
I also do not think it is too soon for a small number of the public to start thinking about what life will be like if we do not get a vaccine next year. I have a small business I am managing as a hobby. My current business plan that I assume is the mostly likely to be in effect for the immediate future includes no vaccine next year. I have not discussed this with any of my employees… they are just happy I have kept them on reduced work hours.
[…] and FEMA are working on A Plan for re-opening the economy. Here’s some history from Three Mile […]
https://atomicinsights.com/jimmy-carter-never-served-nuclear-submarine/
Bob didn’t say he served on a nuclear sub. He said “President, Jimmy Carter, was himself a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and had a post-graduate degree in nuclear engineering”. Wikipedia says “In March 1953, Carter began nuclear power school, a six-month non-credit course covering nuclear power plant operation at Union College in Schenectady”. Also, “Carter’s father died two months before construction of Seawolf began, and Carter sought and obtained a release from active duty to enable him to take over the family peanut business.”
For anyone moaning about the economy or loss of freedom Germany is handling economic planning and business planning well. I’ll direct lazy Americans in that direction rather than put energy into writing it up myself. Angela Merkel also gave a speech in which she explained getting R<1 and keeping it there. It's far more educational than the stream of mental illness you're getting from your president.
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I doubt Cringely will demonstrate the journalistic chops he claims to have. He's too busy writing up the next part of his "reputation managment" series.
I live in Germany, and I’m not sure where this idea comes from that they’re doing anything better than other countries. Merkel making speeches does not save lives. Indeed, there is a widespread perception within Germany that the government was late in implementing restrictions because they were slow to react out of fear of damaging the economy. As of right now, 2 of Germany’s Bundesländer (what Americans call states and Canadians call provinces) maintain total entry bans for non-residents, meaning no one can go there who doesn’t live there, which doesn’t seem any different from what Trump did with his country. Like most other European countries, Germany has implemented border checks for anyone coming into the country, which defeats the purpose of “open borders”. What exactly is Germany doing that’s better than what other countries are doing?
I’m fully aware of the international situation and relative performance of all the major countries and what the best science is and best practice, thank you. Why? Because I invested time in both keeping on top of the situation and reading in-depth articles and academic papers and other material.
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Germany is worse than South Korea but way better than the UK. If you can’t figure that out yourself…
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Could you also bother to read what EU freedom of movement policy is? It specifically enables closing of borders under certain circumstances. Germany did this to halt virus entering and leaving which is exactly whatwas necessary. The French threatened the UK with closing the French-English border completely and cutting off food supplies unless the UK got its act together with lockdown. On the broader issue the EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has made statements about solidarity policies and the EU is today moving to put financial measures in place to navigate the economic issues.
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Apparently I know more not just about US domestic policy than Americans but also more about German domestic policy than Germans.
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You’ll have to excuse me. I have more serious things to get on with. I’ve been experimenting with new makeup looks and wearability and style, and another new lipstick arrived today. It’s a very near dupe for a top end lipstick for about one third the price and took a months of research to narrow down. Not only is this a personal and creative thing which keeps me busy and is good for mental health but as an escort I have to look good under challenging conditions. I may as wll use the down time to improve the product while the time is available and there’s no client pressure.
Live by the radiation, die by the radiation, live by the radiation. I have worked within 5 miles of TMI for over 30 years.
I thought I lived a safe distance from TMI. My thyroid cancer begs me to reconsider. Sadly, the treatment isn’t shooting you with radiation, you must ingest it, to destroy any potentially active thyroid cells. Wouldn’t want them to keep dividing and spreading the cancer cells. Then you go into solitary isolation for 7 days, as you slowly expel the radiation or it decays. There are no sloppy shortcuts to isolating during the treatment or you will compromise (radiate) those caring for you. You do not want to damage their healthy cells.
With our migration to gig economy (online ordering and food delivery services), and casual use of gloves/masks, you are only as safe as your delivery person. Maybe if people treated COVID-19 like radiation, it would be taken more seriously. As a culture, we have been trained to shy away from radiation. In light of asymptomatic infected people, we must remain conscientiously cautious interacting with others during COVID isolation.
Fun fact: TMI shutdown in 2019, meaning no part of the facility is producing power. No one is fixing it. As for the dismantling and removal of material . . I likely will not be alive to see.
Let me share some first hand observations of past disasters.
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In 1993 I lived in the middle of the epic floods that kept a big part of the Midwest underwater for several months. Out of necessity we learned how to evacuate huge numbers of people, whole towns. We learned how to find them housing and get them financial support. We learned how to manage 10,000’s of volunteers who help fight the floods and evaluate the victims. We learned how to feed them. It became an epic effort that involved 100’s of towns and cities. One of the results of this experience is our emergency management organizations and National Guards had accumulated a large amount of equipment useful in dealing with emergencies.
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In 2005, 12 years later Hurricane Katrina was growing in strength and taking aim at New Orleans. The emergency management teams here knew the people in Louisiana would need a lot of help. The emergency resources of a dozen states were mobilized. The staging area was about 3 miles from my house. You cannot imagine how many boats, helicopters, generators, pumps, … were brought in to help. The plan was simple. A serious of convoys would move all the people and equipment south on I-55, timing their first arrival to be a few hours after Katrina had cleared the area.
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Also at the same time we knew from our 1993 experience it will take at least a year to get those evacuated back into their homes, or replacement homes. We know 10,000’s of people would need alternative housing for at least a year. Cities across the Midwest started inventorying their available housing. Local church and charitable organisations began to arrange for jobs, food, clothing, furniture, etc.
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NEVER MIND!
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The convoys never left the staging area. To our surprise the State of Louisiana turned away the help. While FEMA wasn’t principally responsible for the management of the crisis, they didn’t challenge the decision. They just sat on their hands waiting for direction from the state. All the people and equipment staged 3 miles away from me was sent back to its home state. All the emergency relief efforts here were suspended. Like the rest of America we watched in horror as the aftermath from Katrina got worse and worse.
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There are crisis you can plan for and there are crisis you need to have good people who can develop good plans quickly when needed. The point being there needs to be a plan and it needs to be managed well. It also has to be clear “who is in charge?” In most cases crisis are managed at the state level. Some states are prepared for the challenge others are not. The federal government needs to be 100% ready to provide the states the resources the need in a crisis, and if necessary step in and help the state manage the crisis.
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In 1993 to the credit of the administration and the congress, they left their political agenda behind in Washington and came to the Midwest to help work through the many issues. One of those meetings was 14 miles from my house. It was a 6 hour meeting where scores of executive orders were drafted and signed, where the congressional reps in attendance (both parties) drafted relief bills and legislation needed. Very little of this made the national news. News reports of levees breaking and home floating away were preferred for their ratings value.
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Being as non-political as I can be, there is clearly more being done at the federal government level than we know. One can get better TV ratings reporting on problems than on people doing great work. This is not political, this is how poorly our news organizations work these days. It is also clear our government response, both state and federal level, was very slow and minimally effective.
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Numerous regulations require firms to have business continuity plans. Those plans are allowing countless firms to operate with all heir workers at home. Why is it our state and federal governments don’t have crisis management and economic continuity plans? To those who have worked a crisis and can recognize a good plan, TMI clearly shows the utility, the state, and the federal government were completely unprepared. Worse, even when they knew they were over their heads they did not ask for help. I too studied TMI. It was the subject of my engineering capstone project. I had two US Senators helping me get access to the information I needed. Bob’s depiction of what happened in 1979 is spot on. There is no process in government that insures there is good leadership and operating effectiveness in government agencies. Most department leaders are political appointments, some are good, many are not. TMI killed an industry and took off the table an energy source we will soon desperately need. So far we are managing COVID-19 almost as bad.
Trump’s plan is to tell the states to open when they can. That way Trump appears to be the leader, but any future deaths are on the state’s hands, not his. Everything he does is done for maximum re-election chances. Period.
Bob posits these questions:
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— “how do we eventually get back to work with minimal loss of life?”
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and
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— “how do we get back to work by June 1 with minimal loss of life?”
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are different enough to mean 30-50,000 extra dead people. At this point, with the little information we have and even smaller ability to predict just about anything, I don’t see how that’s true.
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I need more proof that the questions actually mean that … and that they’re frankly all that different from each other in the first place. Again, we know too little to meaningfully say how 6/1 compares to “eventually”, plus emotionally a hard date (even if you have to revise it later) is far more satisfying than “eventually” or “we don’t know.”
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And that’s leaving the crystal-ball clairvoyance of what’s “really” in Donald Trump’s mind in terms of agenda regarding how we respond to these events. That’s a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
Here’s a fun idea that might interest you:
– https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/21/minecraft_server_cisco_switch/
The study findings has serious implications as it means that the coronavirus is indeed evolving smartly and it is even far more potent and dangerous to the human body and we might start seeing newer and deadly clinical manifestations which is already being witnessed and also it could indicate that in communities with asymptomatic patients and also in recovered patients, the coronavirus is still evolving and becoming more lethal and its only when it would manifest chronic symptoms.
Also, it is most likely that here will be no successful vaccine ever developed that can stop the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Despite all the publicity and lies, it is impossible for a vaccine to be developed for a virus that has more complicated and far more potent attributes than the HIV virus, which for the last 30 year have yet to have a successful vaccine developed.
GOOD KNIGHT MR BOND!!
Medical researchers and governments should stop selling dreams to the public
RE: “The study findings” Which study?
yeah…
Taken from Abu Stabooleeni [Dark Web Productions] from the article -staking alot of crime out.Dr Moayyad Al kamali radio shack.
There are no rules in espionage only Dedman,Alexander Fretovalante.
Their Russian Embassy in London doesnt belong to Trunp any more,the word is hes going one way or the other in the ded in the fed everyone pays eventually,he was cemented in around the time when 5G was pulled by British Prime minister Boris Johnston, guess the Fedz tell ya nonce and once only.
The story line is riddled,what is clear is that the former head of psychiatry in Dublin was most definitely vetted as CIA files hacked out by wikileaks along with his personal bank accounts proved a hidden amount of money Gross 20 million came from alleged British Inrelligence sources.
Paragraph taken from article.
Explained simply if the CIA and Irish Government security clear a person before allowing them to become the Head of a Department its not likely hes working for the Russians,right!? So when a group of ham radio dicks discovered military microwaves emitting from the Wedgewood Hotel 4 minutes walkie talk from the Russian Embassy you kinda figure it.The hotel was checked out and dont ask us,it belongs to dr Moayyad Al kamali,only it goes a bit further alot further in truth the Russians themselves never denied the allegations that Kamali was monitoring them.This has been going on for years.
I am therfore you are and if you are Iam so therfore you will and if you dont I can and if I do (becuase i am the Gatman) then youWILL…