Last summer, a couple weeks before the iPhone 13 announcement, Chinese market analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote that the iPhone 13 would include satellite communication capability.
Huh?
This was a bolt from the blue. No other Apple analysts were writing about satellites at that time. And while Ming has a very good track record based on finding out from Apple’s supply chain about likely details in upcoming products, there was nothing about this satellite tip that even made sense, since it didn’t seem to involve hardware at all.
Generally speaking, a Ming tip is a hardware tip, but this one was not.
Ming’s prediction was widely and quizzically reported, but to my knowledge it was never confirmed by other writers at the time, though I later found an even earlier story on the concept.
And here’s another.
But Ming’s 2021 prediction was denied by Apple. This, in itself, was weird because Apple generally doesn’t react to rumors. But beyond the mere reaction, the way Apple responded to Ming’s prediction was especially odd.
An unattributed leak from Cupertino said that the iPhone 13 definitely would not include satellite communication capability. And even if some iPhone could communicate with satellites, the leak continued, it wouldn’t be offering satellite voice service (which Ming had mentioned), limiting iPhones to satellite text or iMessage.
Apple, which doesn’t reply to rumors, replied to this one with a denial that simultaneously set product expectations where a denial alone would have sufficed.
This was making less and less sense, but it clearly meant there was something happening.
Then came the iPhone 13 launch and Ming was wrong for a change — no satellite communications. So the Cupertino rumor mill went about its business, Ming’s satellite rumor apparently forgotten.
But not by me.
I decided Ming’s rumor was probably correct and Apple’s denial was very suspect, maybe referring to service launch timing more than the literal facts of the matter. It was even possible that Apple had intended to make the satellite announcement as part of its iPhone 13 launch, but then pulled it for whatever reason.
I began to ask around about both the technical capability of satellite service somehow being able to be easily added to mobile phones and also about Apple. Fortunately I had a hunch where to start, with Qualcomm.
One evening in 1998 at KPBS-TV in San Diego I met Qualcomm co-founder Andy Viterbi and his entire family. They had paid for a new production studio at the San Diego PBS affiliate, which was holding a gala opening where I was part of the entertainment.
The Viterbis were delightful people and I mainly spent the evening with them. Talking with Andy, I learned in passing that Qualcomm was a partner with Loral in a communication satellite venture that featured very low cost and low power data capability — something I never heard about again.
That satellite venture was Globalstar, which survives today in a somewhat hobbled form (only 24 of 48 satellites survive from the 90s) following bankruptcy, with Qualcomm long out of the picture. So I started looking back at that original Qualcomm project along with any FCC filings from the time.
This column is my report. I’m publishing now because Apple might announce its satellite plans at next week’s World Wide Developer Conference OR at the iPhone 14 announcement in September. Not being an insider, I don’t know the timing for sure, but I am convinced an announcement will be coming soon.
Apple will shortly enter the satellite business by acquiring GlobalStar and its 24 satellites. They will use those 24, plus 24 more satellites that Apple has already commissioned, to offer satellite service for iMessage and Apple’s Find My network just like they implied in their denial last year.
These apps are proxies for Apple entering — and then dominating — the Internet of Things (IoT) business. After all, iPhones will give them 1.6 billion points of presence for AirTag detection even on sailboats in the middle of the ocean — or on the South Pole.
IoT is already a big business that is going to get even bigger even faster because of Apple. Adding that satellite connection to iMessage and Find My offers the possibility of ubiquity for IoT, though only on Apple’s network. Ubiquity (being able to track anything in near real time anywhere on the planet) signals the maturity of IoT, turning it quickly into a $1 TRILLION business —in this case Apple’s $1 TRILLION business.
In technical terms it is my understanding that the Globalstar constellation has long had an extra 10 megabits-per-second of Block 53 bandwidth that has gone generally unused but available to a specific Qualcomm chipset. This strongly implies that such satellite capability wouldn’t be limited to the iPhone 14 but has probably been there all along for any phones using that chipset.
I might argue that any iPhone could be satellite-upgraded with only a firmware change, which of course is totally under Apple’s control.
But Apple isn’t the only mobile phone company to use Qualcomm chips, which is why I tend to believe Apple has to actually buy Globalstar outright to secure exclusive use of the constellation.
Ten megabits-per-second times 24 satellites is only 240 megabits-per-second, which is plenty for a text network that doesn’t operate in real time, but it’s a joke for voice service even with super-efficient compression protocols like G.729. Apple could do voice as a demonstration, but not as a service: they simply don’t have enough satellites to achieve scale…yet.
While Apple’s stated goals will be only iMessage and Find My, followed by IoT, in the longer run Cupertino plans to dis-intermediate the mobile carriers — becoming themselves a satellite-based global phone and data company. That will require shifting over additional Globalstar bandwidth plus launching another 300-600 satellites, so it is several years away but IS coming.
Apple will compete not just with every other mobile carrier including Cupertino’s own customers, they will also compete with satellite Internet providers like Starlink, OneWeb, and Amazon’s Kuiper.
Apple can compete with Starlink with so many fewer satellites because GlobalStar has vastly more licensed spectrum than does SpaceX, which has to reuse the same spectrum over and over again with thousands of satellites.
And remember Apple’s service will be mobile while StarLink is more of a fixed wireless solution. Mobile in this case means more valuable.
Apple is very likely to win it all. They’ll win IoT, win voice, win data. They will have the most bandwidth at the lowest cost, running instantly end-to-end on a global ecosystem. Apple will eventually steal as many as TWO BILLION customer connections — more than twice the size of China Mobile — the world’s largest wireless carrier. That will be a market cap transfer to Apple of approximately $2 TRILLION (on top of IoT).
Combine all this new information with Apple’s currently depressed stock price and I’d call it an unambiguous buying opportunity.
Buy with both hands.
First time I looked at Apple stock it was $26 and everyone I knew said they were doomed, but I didn’t have any funds! Also had a 2 for 1 split since then…maybe you’re correct.
First time I looked at Apple stock it was $26 and everyone I knew said they were doomed, but I didn’t have any funds! Also had a 2 for 1 split since then…maybe you’re correct.
As for timing, having the right Qualcomm chip is necessary but not sufficient. Firmware upgrades won’t hack it. Talking to a satellite in orbit requires an advanced antenna design that is just not lying around in existing iPhones.
I’m not sure what you meant by global satellite coverage of Airtags in sailboats. Ain’t gonna happen unless there’s an iPhone around to act as an intermediary.
Other than that, it makes sense. The trick is to find apps that can be optimized for 5X latency minimum. Maybe IoT apps fit, but voice will be late to the party.
You are wrong. Apple has been working on this since at least 2019, which is three years. Initially we’re talking about a data rate similar to dial-up — plenty for Find My, iMessage, and IoT. And the existing hardware in literally ANY iPhone is more than up to the task. All that will be required is a firmware upgrade that Apple will be able to unilaterally push, which they will do to gain global coverage. Yes, a bigger antenna would be nice, but it isn’t necessary.
I mean, existing, current-model GlobalStar satellite phones come with this kind of antenna:
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https://www.satphonestore.com/globalstar-gsp-1700-used-ebay.html
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But sure. I’m sure the default iPhone antenna is fine with just a software update. Why not.
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Which they would have had to announce at WWDC just now, in order for developers to be able to support it, but didn’t.
Jeremy, I was going to reply to your giant-antenna comment, pointing out that voice needs a certain throughput while the minimal data Bob describes does not need that throughput, and it doesn’t need such a stable, time-sensitive link.
Buth then I scroll between that this text box and that comment and… good lord. Grow up. You’re not brilliant, you’re just writing post after post of depressing attacks.
Bob makes fun predictions. Some pan out, some don’t. But all of it gives you some sense of what he’s seeing. I read this, and I’m intrigued by the possibilities. It’s a fun idea.
That’s why we got into tech. That’s the good part. This -star wars nerd attacking george lucas- vibe you are working with is the absolute worst of nerd culture. Not because you debated the points, but because you did childish personal attacks in a space for grown-ups.
So grow up. Or go away. I recommend growing up.
Is “fun prediction” the new term for “alternative fact”? Because Bob’s been caught straight up lying in his posts, and Jeremy was the one who tracked quite a lot of that down. About important things, about trivial things, about things 40 years ago and things 4 months ago.
Sveinbjorn, perhaps this is your first Cringely column, and you’ve missed the entire sordid saga of Mineserver, and Eldorado Space, and all the other nonsense that Cringely has been up to during his entire career, including decades of lying about his past (and not just small lies, either)
From such a perspective, it may indeed seem mean-spirited for me to dissect his current Apple rumor column. But Bob has earned this level of snark and skepticism.
Unfortunately, it’s not possible for Bob to go back to a simpler time of happy-go-lucky, wild, and ultimately incorrect speculation about technology. Things have changed. For one thing, it’s a lot easier to look things up and do fact checking and deeper dives than it was in the 80s and 90s.
So I’m sorry if my comments so offended you, but you’re missing a lot of context.
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Here is a nice table of sat-phones and optional sat-antennas
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https://www.satphonestore.com/compare?SID=p7ho9u3psu3n0ujoc1kbap0e83
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Cringley, it appears a lot of new info has surfaced that could rebut the objections of many of your readers [commentors]: A Globalstar patent surfaced for a new antenna, they launched a spare sat by way of Falcon 9, announced a purchase of 15 new sats from Rocket Labs & MDA, requested authority for 3k new sats (for whom?), working with spaceflight safety platform, Pathfinder to autonavigate those sats from colliding, and a beta for ios 15 samples a sat feature. This rabbit hole your blog has introduced me seems to align with your notion. I think you are on to something!
Mmmmmm…. I love a wild Apple rumor as much as the next nerd but… I’m not buying it. Sorry.
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Talking to satellites generally takes a big antenna, a big battery and a clear view of the sky, three things an iPhone simply doesn’t have. And the bandwidth is really that low, it’ll just make Apple look bad even if it’s an amazing technical accomplishment. No one will be happy just texting over iMessage without pictures/videos. Everyone will want FaceTime. If Apple buys Globalstar, it’ll be for their spectrum and not for their satellites.
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I guess we’ll find out on Monday. But hey, thanks for the tech story, it’s been a while!
I would pay an extra $200 for an iPhone that could send and receive non-graphical satellite text messages.
I guess there would be a per message charge also.
The exact nature of the thing is vague, of course.
I’d say apple bought up that bandwidth just for testing, if they indeed bought it.
The antenna point lil’ jeremy brought up is ridiculous, of course. You need a large antenna to send to satelites, sure. Your phone already listens to satelites, that’s what your GPS is.
And while satphone antennas are big, most satphones are also very old, and its a tiny market with little growth. The Thuraya has a fairly snug antenna, and the iridiums have similar antennas as the first mass market gsm phones.
Here are pictures of phones from the year before the iphone launched:
https://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+launch&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safar
Lots of antennas.
The story of the iphone was often a story of antenna design. Apple’s been doing crazy things with antennas for years.
Like this thing:
https://wifinowglobal.com/news-and-blog/how-a-meeting-with-steve-jobs-in-1998-gave-birth-to-wi-fi/
The whole “it can’t be done because it hasn’t” vibe does not gel with computing history. Apple may not be the untarnished star it once was, bit their thing is still figuring out how to bring existing verge tech to mass market.
There are very few computing technologies that were not perfected at apple. Not invented, perfected. Or at least mvp.
So this whole “it can’t be done” vibe… it just isn’t fun.
Use your imagination and help us figure it out.
Quote: “The whole “it can’t be done because it hasn’t” vibe does not gel with computing history.”
Nobody is saying it “can’t be done”. We’re saying that this particular thing isn’t done outside of a niche, and hasn’t for years, because the niche business case doesn’t justify the other drawbacks.
It may indeed turn out that Apple is secretly buying all the old satellites in the world, and that new iPhones will also be satellite phones. But the iPhone 13 came and went with no such announcement. WWDC came and went with no such announcement. If we all live until September, it’s quite possible the iPhone 14 will come and go with no such announcement.
At what point is it reasonable to say that this thing isn’t going to happen?
Quote: “So this whole “it can’t be done” vibe… it just isn’t fun.”
Is it more fun to just make things up that aren’t true?
Quote: “Use your imagination and help us figure it out.”
Why is it our responsibility to figure out a use case for a niche technology, and not Apple’s?
Whew, at long last we’ve stopped with the insane and nonsensical Ukraine-related blog posts. This seems a lot more light and refreshing in comparison.
And as a bonus, we only have to wait until next week for your crazy idea about Apple buying a defunct and outdated group of satellites to be proven untrue!
Of course, it’s no Mineserver update, but I think we can all agree by now that such an update is never coming.
Speaking of satellites, how’s Eldorado Space going? 🙂
obligatory link: https://www.cringely.com/2020/01/23/not-dead-yet-what-bob-cringely-has-been-up-to/
We’re so very lonely!
We’re 2,000 light years from home!
What benefit would be there to using satellites??
They are useful when a natural disaster wipes out your local towers. Or for emergencies when travelling in wilderness areas. In those situations text messaging is sufficient.
Yes – I completely agree
I don’t buy anything I don’t understand. American shares are overvalued, global regulations, lock-in etcetera. I’ll let the men rip this one to pieces because it’s too much to unpack and I don’t have the energy. In any case I don’t own shares. The best investment I can make really is to be very careful who I vote for. Hint: not Tories.
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Cliche I know but I’d rather go clothes shopping. I can’t tell you how ticked off I was about one of the best bra boutiques closed a local branch. Buying online is really convenient and an amazing thing and I do this a lot. Sometimes you just want to get outside and experience a textured analogue 3D world. I sort of have my eye on a summer dress I’m thinking of buying. It has a nice femme shoulder detail I like and the style is low maintenance. I am tempted though to go for others which show a bit more bosom. Not a lot but enough. I also need another handbag. I fancy a brown leather slightly slouchy handbag. It has more a free and relaxed vibe about it. It’s just the thing for storing a hairbrush and real books. Not that anyone reads real books anymore but sometime you need to get away from dratted screens.
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After those nutty and disrespectful posts on the Ukraine war not to mention the oft promised but never delivered Mineserver update I think it’s going to take more than wild handwavy clickbait to get any reputation back.
Bob I used satellite phones from Inmarsat and I they had voice time delay. It sounded so weird – it sounded like you were talking from someone from another planet. How will you fix that time delay in communication when Starlink has approval to put so many low Earth orbit satellites ? How many more can you put it there not to be congested ? Astronomers already complained to FCC that they approved too many low orbit satellites.
https://qz.com/1971751/a-flood-of-spacex-satellites-started-a-fight-over-space-pollution/
Take a look at Globalstar’s licensed spectrum and you’ll see something surprising: in addition to global satellite spectrum the company owns US terrestrial spectrum. America is still the most important market for Apple. If satellite phone performance isn’t good enough Apple can in a few months throw its own cell hardware on tens of thousands of third-party towers right next to those of the other guys. They will still disintermediate the mobile carriers. And tell me again how Apple won’t do a better technical job than InMarSat.
A future, low latency, high speed satellite network will also be essential for Apple’s self-driving car ambitions.
This. It does make much more sense for cars. I’m not saying that a pilot thing, early sat feature on iphone with rudamentury features (always-on push notifications, say) wouldn’t be cool… but the car *must* be the purpose for this. Parity with tesla – and not get trampled if elon’s satelites end up dominating.
Although the glasses, by their nature, have two very large antennas, one over each ear. So there’s that.
The giants are all doing sat networks.
Its gonna be huge, and quite different to what we know of sats today.
As x says, elon has a hitherto unseen amount of sarts going up, paid for by his customers. Apple has probably bought up bandwidth that’ll let them do much more with fewer sats.
Bob’s buddy EditorDavid posted this article on slashdot.org half an hour ago so only one comment now so wait for more to come
https://apple.slashdot.org/story/22/06/04/0149213/cringley-predicts-apple-is-about-to-create-a-satellite-based-iot-business
The best of the comments is probably this one:
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“It’s never safe to entirely rule something out when a company has a lot of capital on hand and people demanding that it be out yielding returns; but I find the “apple devices are ubiquitous; so satellites coverage will be super powerful!” thesis somewhat puzzling:
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Having substantial marketshare in places they care about is precisely what allows Apple to do the ‘find my’ and airtag stuff without their own expensive infrastructure: they can safely assume that there will be a fair number of internet connected iDevices wandering around pretty much anywhere of economic significance.
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Satellites, by contrast, are what you do when you either need to cover edge cases that are of interest to you but not of general interest(remote monitoring sites; marine communications, some military applications); or when imposing minimal assumptions about what supporting infrastructure will be available is more important than minimizing cost(‘plug in, point at sky’ is a lot simpler than all the possible local variations of getting local cell data, though it costs more per megabyte).
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That seems like a very un-apple thing to care about: they’ve always focused on making the products they feel like making to serve the customers they are interested in serving and have been fairly unresponsive to the pleas of niche users who don’t interest them. Why would Apple be interested in making significant capital investments just so that the last fraction of a percent of airtags and iDevices that are located at McMurdo, or glued to research seals; or at an undisclosed JSOC drone base in the dusty ass end of nowhere can phone home when simply using iDevices as sensor nodes already gives them coverage in the places where their customers are?”
Re-read what I wrote about ubiquity. If Apple intends to dominate IoT it has to be EVERYWHERE. There can be no edges, leaving no opportunity for competitors.
Globalstar will cost maybe $2 billion, which is how much profit Apple makes every FOUR DAYS, so this is no risk at all for Apple.
Now try to think like Tim Cook. Apple has to be constantly worried about anti-trust. Every move they make will be scrutinized by regulators. So if they are going to make really big moves like these they have to have two characteristics: 1) they have to extend an existing product or service into an area where Apple is NOT presently dominant (better yet, where they are not even a factor, like satellites), and; 2) they have to initially appear to be, as you say, to be hobbies. But this is no hobby. This is the next decade of Apple’s growth.
Quote: “Re-read what I wrote about ubiquity. If Apple intends to dominate IoT it has to be EVERYWHERE. There can be no edges, leaving no opportunity for competitors.”
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Re-read what I wrote about a) satellite phones already existing as a niche market, b) the downsides of satellite phones (requiring a large antenna and clear view of the sky, higher latency, lower bandwidth, etc.)
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Also, re-read the whole point about Qualcomm support in the chipsets existing yet not being utilized by other smartphone vendors, and the much more important point about the Qualcomm support really being about Globalstar licensing part of their old satellite n53 band for use in terrestrial 5G communications.
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That last point is really the most important bit. It explains why Ming-Chi got his rumor so wrong in the first place.
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Just saying “but.. but.. Apple needs to compete EVERYWHERE” doesn’t change any of these facts. I mean, sure, Apple could probably buy Globalstar with their petty cash. But Apple could buy a lot of other companies as well, and yet they don’t, because it would distract from their core focus and main corporate goals.
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Apple is all about creating expensive, high-profit devices that are desirable because they offer unique features or qualities that distinguish them from their competitors. Satellite phone capabilities don’t really fit into this picture, for reasons described above.
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Anyway, we’ll know the answer in a few minutes, as the WWDC Keynote is currently playing.
WWDC keynote just ended. New iOS and macOS, new laptops with a new M2 chip, some new Apple Pay and order tracking features for iPhone/Apple watch, some HomeKit and new safety features for Find My… some CarPlay stuff… that’s it. No satellite phone support, in anything. To be ready for the iPhone 14, those features would have to be announced now. They weren’t.
I think it’s clear Cringely invests in Apple and pumps up their stocks when he needs cash.
He’s been doing that at his blog going back to when Blockbuster was relevant(new IPods will be Blockbuster’s new delivery format for movie rentals).
I doubt that a blog that gets at most a couple hundred views a day would move the needle much on Apple’s stock price, to be honest.
Plus, Bob has said that he doesn’t own any stock (back when he was paid to write for Seeking Alpha, anyway). Of course he could be lying about that as he has lied about so many other things. It’s hard to keep track of it all!
Although having said this, I just checked and Bob has been pumping Apple stock on Seeking Alpha’s comments section as recently as a couple of months ago, so maybe you’re on to something!
https://seekingalpha.com/author/robert-x-cringely/comments
[…] analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reported the iPhone 13 would include satellite communication capability, remembers long-time tech pundit Robert Cringley, who adds that the prediction was denied by Apple. “This, in itself, was weird because Apple […]
There’s a lot to dig into in this “light” post about Apple, but before I get my shovel (and my pitchfork and torches!) let’s start with a quick review of Cringely’s Track Record For Apple Predictions(tm):
June 2020: “After switching to ARM, expect Apple to buy TSMC, too”. Dumb idea; didn’t happen.
Feb 2019: “2019 Prediction #1 — Apple under Tim Cook emulates GE under Jack Welch”. Vague, but the key takeaway was “What Apple is probably closest to becoming is a hedge fund — a very big hedge fund in fact.” Didn’t happen.
Feb 2019: “Apple will in 2018 buy one or more of the many startups helping shift desktop computing loads to the cloud. Cupertino will compete with Amazon, Google, and Microsoft offering virtual cloud PCs.” Didn’t happen.
Jan 2016: “Final Prediction #10: Apple will buy Dish Network”. Didn’t happen.
So the takeaway is this: Cringely’s track record for successful predictions about Apple is hovering around zero percent.
Sorry, typo: the third date should be “February 2018” not 2019. If I could edit posts I would fix it. And if I could add more than a couple of links, I’d add the links. But this software doesn’t allow either.
This is almost completely doable. While the antenna issues need to be worked out, LoRa IoT from orbit is already a thing. I have a TinyGS that picks up signals from several LoRa equipped satellites. It runs on 5v, and ESP32, includes a screen, antenna, etc. All the hardware fits in my palm. Some minor adjustments to Globalstar and some good engineering and you could make an iPhone work, although it will be spotty at best with only 24 sats. 48 is a bit better, depending the orbits. You really need about 400 satellites to create a somewhat persistent network and even then, it will not work well in higher latitudes.
It does make sense for Apple to move this way, start slow and build it up. They need exceedingly large system moves to get the financials to work (sucks to be a super large company). If it remains niche then it is just a hobby (Apple TV hardware anyone) and won’t play a big part in their strategy. But if it scales, this could be a big deal.
It seems you know what you are talking about so my question to you is how to fix voice time delay ? As I said above I used satellite phones and it was horrible experience. I hated every time I had to talk to office people or someone else with satellite phone. I don’t think people will want to use satellite phone with voice delay but for text it does not matter really.
> how to fix voice time delay ? As I said above I used satellite phones and it was horrible experience.
Elsewhere you mentioned using Inmarsat, and Inmarsat “owns and operates 14 satellites in geostationary orbit” (quick search). Those are 36 000 km above our heads, meaning at least a 0.12 second lightspeed trip one way. So about a quarter second before they can hear you say “but …” on the other side, not a very good chance of getting in a word edgewise.
Systems like Starlink use LEO (low Earth orbit, below 2000 km), saw mention of between 300 to 1400 km, using 4000 satellites in final form. The delay from you to satellite is one to five hundredths less than that of geostationary orbits (say 1 to 5 milliseconds).
If you want to talk to someone on the other side of the planet, the signal will have to travel the distance, say 20 000 km worst case to the antipodes (some 0.07 seconds).
IoT is not for voice communications. Voice lag is as you pointed out horrible. Think of sending small packets of data – more like SMS where a few seconds lag is not consequential. No matter what you do there will always be lag due to the distances involved. Starlink has the same issue. There is lag in the data stream, even with using laser interconnects. They can reduce it but never get rid of it.
Okay, so let’s dig in a little bit on this post. Although I’m grateful that we’ve finally returned to tech stories, there’s a bit of a weird trendline to this article.
We start with Ming’s rumor about satellite phone capability being added to the iPhone 13, which turned out to be false. Okay. But then we have this line:
“I decided Ming’s rumor was probably correct and Apple’s denial was very suspect.”
It’s strange to just arbitrarily decide that a rumor that was incorrect was actually correct. The concern about Apple’s denial could be proven irrelevant by simply finding a time where Apple denied a rumor that turned out to be an incorrect rumor. Can we find such an event?
Well, it took two pages of Googling, but here’s one from 2016: https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/11/10750810/apple-denies-ios-android-switch-tool In fact, Apple never built such a tool. So Apple denying a rumor (instead of staying silent) doesn’t necessarily mean the rumor is true.
Okay, moving on…
“After all, iPhones will give them 1.6 billion points of presence for AirTag detection even on sailboats in the middle of the ocean — or on the South Pole.”
Is this really something worthwhile for Apple to invest in? Tracking objects that aren’t in remote places is already possible, because Apple customers are typically not in the middle of the ocean or at the South Pole.
“But Apple isn’t the only mobile phone company to use Qualcomm chips, which is why I tend to believe Apple has to actually buy Globalstar outright to secure exclusive use of the constellation.”
So.. this thing that apparently any phone company with the right Qualcomm chip could do… nobody has done yet.. BUT.. Apple could totally do it if they just bought out all the satellites. But nobody has done it.. for YEARS. Maybe that’s because the potential market size is comically small, as I mentioned above.
Finally, it all goes supercrazy:
“And remember Apple’s service will be mobile while StarLink is more of a fixed wireless solution. Mobile in this case means more valuable.
Apple is very likely to win it all. They’ll win IoT, win voice, win data. ”
Now we’ve jumped into full fantasy land. Apple will buy up all the satellites, and then because of this they will win total control over all wireless communication networks… even though a) the delay and lag problems with satellite phones won’t go away and b) neither will all the terrestrial networks that currently serve customer’s needs.
It ends with a “hey, buy AAPL stock” to which I will add Cringely’s disclaimer from the end of his TMSC post:
[b]”Apparently this is where I am supposed to tell you how much Apple stock I own (zero), how much TSMC stock I own (also zero) and how much stock of any type I own (yup, zero). Thanks for reading.”[/b]
In fairness, I should add the disclaimer that I do own a small amount of AAPL stock, but I didn’t buy it because I thought Apple would dominate all these things worldwide. It’s because I thought the company would do well servicing their typical (wealthier, and thus more profitable) customer base with their new technology like the M series of chips. So far the stock has done okay, but it’s a long-term bet for me and I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy the stock because of crazy rumors. Do your due diligence, read the 10Q reports, decide for yourself what you are willing to risk. Tech stocks are down in general due to the end of the pandemic and the recent crypto crash. Whether this represents a buying opportunity or a time for caution is up to the individual investor.
Sorry, I should have said “due to the end of pandemic restrictions” as the pandemic has not ended and is still very much continuing.
could sattelites help get future customers in south America and Africa? Globalstar is working in those continents.
Again, South America and Africa already have mobile phone infrastructure. The only thing preventing those customers from buying iPhones is the high cost of iPhones, which Apple is only too happy to maintain.
There was this weird moment when Americans specifically became very panicked about the idea of a “digital divide” on a global scale. In reality, Africans are doing things with cheap phones that a dozen Silicon Valley start-ups are still bloviating about. See for instance M-Pesa, which in the guise of a mobile network took on the task of “banking the un-banked”:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
Well I’m thinking about 4g 5g internet like spaceX’s starlink.
Starlink requires a giant antenna. Globalstar phones require slightly less giant antennas (see here: https://www.satphonestore.com/globalstar-gsp-1700-used-ebay.html) but it’s still not smartphone territory.
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But the main point here is that this doesn’t actually get you tons of new customers. There is plenty of mobile phone infrastructure in what we in the West used to call the “Third World”. In fact, as the link granville posted shows, in some cases they’ve surpassed us.
It is kind of funny how cats can slow down the Internet
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/outdoor-cats-are-using-500-starlink-satellite-dishes-as-self-heating-beds-180979401/
@Jeremy: “The concern about Apple’s denial could be proven irrelevant by simply finding a time where Apple denied a rumor that turned out to be an incorrect rumor. Can we find such an event?”
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First one I thought of:
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https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/04/editorial-a-year-later-bloomberg-silently-stands-by-its-big-hack-icloud-spy-chip-story
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Bloomberg in a Businessweek cover story claimed that Apple’s chips had been hacked in a massive security breach by the Chinese military. Apple denied it, one could argue they HAD to, but there’s been no corroboration after some 4 years, and it would seem straightforward to find what Bloomberg was claiming was there if a researcher was specifically looking for it. So Apple indeed “denied” a rumor here.
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“Is this really something worthwhile for Apple to invest in? Tracking objects that aren’t in remote places is already possible, because Apple customers are typically not in the middle of the ocean or at the South Pole.”
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Moreover, anyone in “the middle of the ocean” is probably in a boat. Boats have these things called transponders that do this tracking thing, ay.
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btw, great job on the Newton story!
Quote:”btw, great job on the Newton story!”
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Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. The story apparently did very well for Ars, and my editor was pleased. Now he’d like to know what other ideas for stories I have kicking around. I’m thinking about doing a shortened version of the ARM story, but they already did a single article on that. So I’m still musing.
Your whole line is about being a stickler. Read it fuzzy and it all makes sense.
You read that bob believed an already failed prediction were true. I read that bob believes that some very low-bitrate sat tech will pop into the phones one of these days.
I’m intrigued about that.
Bob’s posts have gotten more eccentric over the years. Sparser. Turns out he retired some years back, made a whole thing about it. And he’s deeply embedded into a generation in silicon valley that’s not in the trenches anymore.
So this site was way better ten years back. I’d stop coming if anyone else could write this way about tech. Just a smidge of optimism about potential.
It took your weird out of bounds unprofessional attacks to help me see that.
Anyway, hope you feel better, and whatever was really botheríng you got sorted out.
Quote: “So this site was way better ten years back. I’d stop coming if anyone else could write this way about tech. Just a smidge of optimism about potential.”
Optimism is nice, but wild-ass guesses that end up being completely wrong tend to lose their shine after a few repetitions.
How did Bob’s other predictions about Apple turn out? Did they buy TSMC? Did the company become a giant hedge fund? No. Did they buy a public cloud provider and compete with AWS, GCP, and Azure? No. Did they buy Dish Network? No.
So why should we blindly believe this prediction? Just because it’s “optimistic”? Some good AR glasses would be much more optimistic and more fun than that. Why hasn’t Bob talked about that?
EditorDavid on Slashdot is a classic example of how a person fulfilling an editors role can push and agenda or pick favourites which wouldn’t strictly speaking pass any best practice guidelines or policy. I normally get a little suspicious when I see this in organisations because there’s usually something else going on with that individual, or an overall lack of oversight or feedback.
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Nobody on here is questioning the requlatory issues or pragmatics let alone whether it should be done. In fact nobody other than me ever brings that subject up. You’re too sucked in by the gee whizz scattergun technobabble.
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Back to more important issues. I have my eye on some summer dresses. I’m mulling over whether to buy the summer occasion dress, or the everyday summer dress.
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One blast of sun and the twenty somethings are out in strappy tops and shorts. As much as I may quietly fume with jealousy at the unfair competition they really need to pay attention because when they hit 30 they’re going to look prematurely aged and have saggy boobs. Don’t say you weren’t warned!
Quote: “Nobody on here is questioning the requlatory issues or pragmatics let alone whether it should be done”
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I don’t think that’s completely correct. Multiple people have pointed out that buying satellites to handle extreme edge cases of communication on the oceans or Antarctica isn’t pragmatic for Apple at all. I mentioned that if “winning everything” was as easy as supporting some existing Qualcomm chips, some other company would have done it already.
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As for regulatory issues, we’re living in a current climate of extremely lax regulations (Elon Musk basically got to launch a whole fleet of satellites that ruined tons of astrophotography, and nobody blinked an eye) so it’s probably not a huge factor in this case.
[…] analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reported the iPhone 13 would include satellite communication capability, remembers long-time tech pundit Robert Cringley, who adds that the prediction was denied by Apple. “This, in itself, was weird because Apple […]
This latest brainwave off Mark Stephens (aka Cringely) seems to have crumbled under its own mass. The men seem a bit lower energy at the moment and disappeared off in their own huddle.
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I’m still bored.
I mean, there’s only so much energy one can muster for replying to these late-stage Cringely posts.
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They’re entertaining in a way, but feel like echoes of earlier bombast, getting fainter with each repetition.
A tech-based column?
So, Cringely didn’t actually link to Ming-Chi Kuo’s prediction from 2021, only to his Twitter. But a little Googling found this article: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/29/iphone-13-to-feature-leo-to-make-calls-and-text/
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Digging through the accompanying forum comments thread (hey, look, comments can be useful!) I found this link, which explains why Qualcomm bothered putting support for Globalstar satellite access in their new chipsets in the first place:
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https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210209005949/en/Globalstar%E2%80%99s-Band-n53-in-Qualcomm%E2%80%99s-X65-Modem
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Spoiler: it wasn’t about satellite phones at all. It was because Globalstar had licensed a portion of their bandwidth for terrestrial 5G support instead. From the article: “Qualcomm represents the newest commercial partner for Globalstar in the continued development of its terrestrial ecosystem.”
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Globalstar Satellite phones do exist, and there is a market for them. But it’s a small market of people who travel over the ocean in small boats, or go hiking in mountains far from civilization, or work on oil rigs, or whatever. But it’s not a “game-changer” for the rest of the world. Also, they tend to require giant antennas and clear view of the sky to work, which makes them less useful than smartphones already are.
Hello,
I appreciated reading your rebuttal.
In response to this:
“ Globalstar Satellite phones do exist, and there is a market for them. But it’s a small market of people who travel over the ocean in small boats, or go hiking in mountains far from civilization, or work on oil rigs, or whatever. But it’s not a “game-changer” for the rest of the world. Also, they tend to require giant antennas and clear view of the sky to work, which makes them less useful than smartphones already are.”
As you mentioned Apple loves selling to “wealthy” customers. Those customers want the ability to do something even when they may never use it or use it only once. Even if just to say they can. For example being able to send an SOS text message from a trail in Arizona that you drive to and are not really lost. Said another way, it’s not about the person who actually hikes miles in the remote wilderness. It’s about the average person who pictures themselves doing it. Apple already has marketing around this
https://youtu.be/QJ2JiwEARFo
and so satellite integration becomes the next hot feature that moves the sales needle and then we can’t live without. I hadn’t even considered iot implications before reading this post. I am now even more bullish.
All of this is speculation and admittedly I am doing a lot of hand waiving around tech issues that I don’t understand and just assuming they are Apple and they will figure it out. But it makes sense to me. Hopefully GSAT is that partner. The contract with their mysterious partner calls for the constellation to be ready by 2025. We have some time.
Disclaimer. Long APPL and GSAT
I drafted my comment while other people posted and couldn’t be bothered to post an update.
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The pragmatics and regulation issues have been touched on directly and indirectly. They are not thoroughly fleshed out nor cover all the issues but I’m not going to nag anyone over it because, tbh, this topic isn’t worth the energy.
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In contrast to Mark Stephens (aka Cringely) listening to another show with Ben Hodges (General Rtd.) he has another tack on life. He describes himself as a retired middle aged man offering unsolicited advice to people considering serious issues who have their jobs on the line. I like his sense of humour and perspective.
It’s a bit sad that this post has to wallow in ancient nostalgia (“in 1998 at KPBS-TV in San Diego I met Qualcomm co-founder Andy Viterbi and his entire family. They had paid for a new production studio at the San Diego PBS affiliate, which was holding a gala opening where I was part of the entertainment.”) as a starting off point, as if that was required to even start investigating the issue. As if, without that, how would you even know to start investigating Qualcomm?
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Whereas I did one Google search on last year’s rumor and found a thread that had all the answers, and explained why it wasn’t true, and why it will continue to not be true.
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Is Bob incapable of using Google?
I’ve always come here for the ancient nostalgia. And you need to work on those daddy issues.
Sveinbjorn, my father died 20 years ago, and I recently completed writing his biography.
If I have any remaining daddy issues at this point, they are unlikely to be resolved.
Jeremy,
What’s Jennifer Ouellette really like?
@Gnarfle: No idea! I’ve never met her or spoken with her. She seems cool, though.
Doesn’t look likely for a phone, but might make sense if they really were building the Apple car they have been toying with for years. (Not for speech, but for data related to the car, or services like messages). Or a punt. You buy the satellites to get the 5G bandwidth to set up your own mobile network globally. (I.e. not space based but at a stroke makes a streamlined multinational network).
Something occured to me and I felt compared to share. Who am I? Nobody of importance, and with that out of the way, imagine this, people texting, sending pictures like crazy BOL’s, Invoices, Work Orders, Memo’s, Pictures…… Baby MacDaddy’s Community College Graduation video to Grandma….. surfing the cybersea, Ya get the spew, man, all that cosmic mesh sure seems to chew into some bandwidth a bit, now let’s say maybe we can diversify that bit down to a byte… hmmmm now these slower satelittes are starting to appear more useful. Or maybe they will just be used to track your future RFID Tattoo. Just a thought from Dumfucius, thanks for the ear….. so to speak, ….. no pun intended. 🙂
P.s. other thoughts, sry about the mispelling earlier, blasting fast cuz I really don’t have much time, but I digress. Nokia recently patented a technology that allows crosstalk between wifi and cell towers allowing them to address gaps in coverage in a very interesting way, maybe they have a play in this. Also, Borq Tech recently signed contract with qualcomm for 5g chip and they specialize in IOT. hmmm… just more spew. Later.
Apple wants to build their own Skynet, so to speak, for its devices or the troubled /vaporware/boondoggle Apple Car project? Perhaps, though probably unlikely.
The part about IoT is much harder to believe, when Apple has utterly failed to demonstrate any kind of coherent home product strategy. Apple has Siri, HomeKit, a streaming box, a couple speakers, and… what else? It used to make some pretty good routers. More importantly, none of them work together in the manner one would expect, given Apple reputation. The company has already let Google and Amazon take the lion’s share of the IoT market, making HK an also ran for most users, and leaving people little choice if one doesn’t want a copious serving of data mining in the you-are-the-product business model along with their doorbells, security cameras, and whatnot. Too bad the company hasn’t recognized the opportunity for a privacy-focused array of home goods, and has given us a piecemeal, half-assed handful of products instead. It could have done pretty well, I suspect, and it may be too late now. The Apple of today is too busy printing money, and doing an ironic impression of Microsoft, the company we all loved to hate those many years ago.
Curious.
I once speculated that in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that airlines would make a fortune by becoming incredibly paranoid about security and charging a fortune for it.
Ha!
And HA!
Not if you can bully the government into pretending to do it for you!
My iot provider is… ikea.
There isn’t an apple in the iot space. And there are certain things Google is just better at. Apple have a niche in maps, but they don’t touch search, for example.
And once Ikea’s in the market, you know its a comodities market.
Apple’s weakness is siri. They just can’t match big data, both google and amazon run rings around them. Big data and own-brand comodities, that’s all Amazon.
Apple tv led smart tv development. The others have cought up, but apple was the only real product for years.
And, unfortunately, apple is pivoting towards services.
Iot is not there. At all. Except alexa. Which is a match made in heaven for amazon, not apple (or google).
There are tons of possible services that a sat-apple could provide. At some point a universal find-my-keys, sure.
I refuse to own a TV (or phone) that’s smarter than I.
[…] El despliegue cada vez mayor y mucho más barato de redes de satélites, unido a la progresiva simplicidad de su desarrollo y a la capacidad de procesamiento de las imágenes que obtienen mediante algoritmos de machine learning, permite imaginar cada vez más usos para ellas además del obvio de las telecomunicaciones, que van desde el control de actividades industriales, de la contaminación, de la deforestación y los incendios forestales, o de actividades como la pesca, la agricultura y muchas otras. Algunos analistas incluso especulan que Apple podría tener interés en desarrollar una red satelital para conectar todos sus dispositivos. […]
When I heard that rumor last year, I figured this was one of those fake stories Apple plants in order to find leakers amongst their ranks.
I still think that, but I admit, it’s a compelling vision. I hope you’re right!
If Apple is involved it is more than likely for an upcoming Apple electric car in my opinion.
The rumor was stating that emergency messages could be sent, this would fit for an auto as well as a phone, imo.
Apple has plans to make its own iphone chips starting in 2023 and will not be paying Qualcomm nor using the x65 which connects to the globalstar band n53, this is confirmed by Q in the last Qualcomm quarterly report.
Globalstar is using Global Telecom hardware and software according to the recent Global Telecom quarterly report. Global Telecom is making the new “Mercury” module that quickly hot swaps and connects between satellite, cellular and cbrs,, also GT states it is ideal for electric vehicles.
Recently Foxconn, the manufacturer of the iphone, purchased the Lordstown Motors plant in Ohio, formerly the GM Cruze factory. So the iphone manufacturer is reportedly moving into the ev business.
Sure smells like an Apple e/car to me.
xxxxx
“The MERCURY Series is ideal for electric vehicles, enabling communication behind the scenes to help cars travel safely, while also providing capacity for over-the-air updates, telematics, and entertainment products.”
Great View !!
[…] I Cringely ☛ Apple’s Space Ambitions are Real […]
Is there any benefit of using satelite?
There has been a flood of Apple news on Slashdot. It’s the usual gimmicky, rehash, nerdy material. I haven’t clicked on a single link. It’s not that I dislike neoliberal monopolistic megacorps, which I do, or gerbil pressing food pedal style clickbait addiction, which I dislike too. They’re just anti-social monocultures with all the creativity sucked out of them.
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https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism
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What got me into computing was the fun and creativity. It’s taken most of my life to realise that back when I started none of the men spun on the same axis.
When Cdr Taco ran Slashdot it was a cool place to hang out. No pressure, no agenda, just people talking about interesting subjects. When he sold out it became decidedly uncool, at least for me. Who wants to be badgered by advertising and somebodys idea of how to make a buck. It was fun for me because I had the sense that I was hanging out with friends. Maybe Elon Musk could buy it and remove the pressure to make it into a business. That would certainly return the concept of being “slashdotted” to the contemporary lexicon. (When is the last time you heard anybody claim they had been slashdotted?)
You are dead wrong that Elon Musk will make Twitter and possibly Slashdot cool. He borrows and receives money from anyone who is willing to donate or give to him (mostly hard line Republicans like Larry Ellison and Co.) in order to get money to buy Twitter and he already announced he will start charging businesses for tweets pretty much same how Larry Ellison milks anyone using Oracle software.
Slashdot should be acquired by those guys who run Craigslist from mom’s basement and that will be as close to original Slashdot as it can get.
You just proved my point.
Internet History Podcast
157. Rob Malda (@cmdrtaco) on SlashDot and Social Media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckToTkIcKrE
As others have said, no chance Apple builds a sexy iPhone chassis with antenna required to do satcom in it. You can have one or the other and Apple will choose sexy every damn time.
I don’t want a phone more sexy than me. I have also never met a client who cares what my phone is. Seriously, it’s the last thing on their mind as they are overcome with desire to consume me. It can get a little torrid at times.
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I had lunch with another escort this week. That was nice. Had a good chat about life and stuff. No phones required.
Oooh. Big scandal brewing. Apparently Tesla has been caught turning off autopilot one second before a crash so they can claim autopilot was not involved in a crash therefore it was the drivers fault.
Fuck off Depp. How dare you abuse Hedy Lamarr’s memory to cover up your drug riddled abusive domestic arrangements. So what if she started off as a sex worker? You’re as scummy as that rag which tried to out Rebel Wilson as a lesbian.
Find fine hot ladies for sex contacts in EU at sex luzern
Good post guys!
I saw Apple ordering low orbit satellites some months ago and my take isn’t IoT* but G6, G7 and beyond.
G4 mobile is the last system that allows ECONOMIC “Broadcast” signals the future G20 will have transmission towers next to your cell phone because of power, loss and other constraints.
G5 needs towers every half mile – OK in Cities terrible in sparse populations.
What we are about to see is a limit to advancement of technology. Best exemplified by Video. 4K 8K 16K 32K video has greater bandwidth needs but NO human benefits except for porn or science!!
So I believe “Moore’s Law” for video past 8K and “Moore’s Law” for Cell network development past 6G will be the end because the costs outweigh benefits.
But to get 6G on a cellphone needs another method than cell towers closer than 1000 feet and that is satellites. And that’s what Apple is doing.
Other systems will be late and like the EU demand Apple open its satellite network to everyone.
This causes hacking problems multiplying exponentially – Nigeria Israel Nth Korea CCCP China CIA MI5 Iran and backyarders all being Mafia and wanting Protection Money!!!
And the end of the world as we know it!!! Because idiots think they are important!!!
* IoT will need to talk to cellphones and let them guard access.
What I hate about TED Talks is that its video. And mostly Max Headroom style – the data is all voice. Radio would work cheaper. The whole world wants video but a great waist in bandwidth for a little data.
NOT SURE THIS IS RELATED! SORRY FOR SHOUTING! I DON’T HEAR AS WELL AS I USED TO!
https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/
In case you were wondering . . .
https://www.npr.org/podcasts/583350334/science-friday
Happy Emancipated Father’s Day!
I just had a whole squad of men around doing work on my place. I never really noticed before but it’s amazing how unattractive men are when not paying me money for sex. I had a load of bras out and a corseted top and stockings and they never said a peep which is just as well. Conversation was good. We had a good laugh or two as well.
Nobody:
Nobody at all:
trashtalk: LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT FUCKING FOR A LIVING
I have more to me than fucking for a living. Good conversation and comedy timing! I made them laugh I did. I’m also very good with getting information out of men. Men just can’t help themselves. I now know how everything works and most of their life history. A smile and a little flattery works wonders. No really we had a jolly good time. I should do that more often.
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I did talk a little about computers and rockets but woosh. We had a much better conversation for not talking about them. Work with the grain as they say! Most unlike me but we are where we are.
Quick Google search for Apple+satellite project give articles from Forbes and Fox Business dated Dec 20, 2019 that Apple employed 12 engineers one of them was former head of Google’s spacecraft operations the other head of satellite engineering.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/12/20/apple-building-satellite-to-iphone-tech-spacex-launching-42000-satellites-2–2–/?sh=711282468a77
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/apple-secret-satellite-team
Both of those guys worked for satellite imaging company Skybox too so Apple Maps is what comes to mind in addition to Apple car – I don’t think satellite tech will be used for voice – too many technical hurdles.
According to Bloomberg article dated April 21, 2017 Apple hired those 2 former Google executives somewhere at the end 2016/beginning 2017
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-21/apple-hires-top-google-satellite-executives-for-new-hardware-team
From that article: “Indeed, Apple may have hired the Google executives for something other than satellite work.”
Apple put a lot of effort from 2017 to today to improve Apple Maps (which initially compared poorly enough to Google Maps that it became a bit of an Internet meme, but today is surprisingly good), and the Google executives in question worked on Google Maps.
The Apple Car is the big question mark– such a device would clearly benefit from satellite communication, and antenna size and exterior visibility is irrelevant in such a device. But the Apple Car has been frustratingly missing in action over the last few years, even given Apple’s legendary secrecy.
Tim Cook once described autonomous car in an interview as The Holy Grail of technology almost as pinnacle of civilization and kind of acknowledged Apple was working on it but it is hard to achieve with present technological level.
I read that Tesla cars send lot of telemetry history back to Tesla headquarter but they do that on wifi connection. One guy wrote once his car had sent 2GB of data previous night back to Tesla.
There is probably somebody around to describe how can satellite be used for autonomous car. It is not to send data – wifi is everywhere and cheaper. Same with car navigation – there is delay due to distance to/from satellite so I doubt it can be used for navigation and cell phone towers do the same thing.
And Tim Cook was wrong!
The Flying car is the Pinnacle of Civilization!
Trash? Pss’t! Trash? Wake up!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I was bored and went on cam and roadtested a push up bra under a close fitting blazer. The viewing figures were at the high end of predictable. Okay, fine. Looks good. As the conversation was dull especially off some men including one client who should know better that was it for the day.
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Get off your ass you lot and write something interesting.
Sorry. This won’t be interesting. But it might be funny.
I’m registered to vote in my state as an NPA ((No Political Affiliation). Or is it Party?)) The laws in my state do not allow me to vote in primaries.
What if I registered as Republican and then voted for whomever I damn well please? Including primaries!
What if every liberal did the same thing? What would happen?
I’m not a liberal and I’m not a conservative. And I’m not sure those labels mean anything any more.
Nothing matters and what if it did?
Quote: “Get off your ass you lot and write something interesting”
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I wrote a little article last month that I considered slightly interesting, about Douglas Adams predicting the end of cryptocurrency 42 years ago: https://jeremyreimer.com/rockets-item.lsp?p=290
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Turned out to be a little bit prescient a month later.
Check out the best web platfom in France for casual contacts with fine ladies Salope Occitanie
I’ve been reading a lot about Steve Jobs.
I’ve come to the conclusion that he was an obsessive/compulsive with no technical chops but used OCD as a methodology to bully talented people into building a computer that was easy enough even for HIM to use.
Discuss.
Jobs, like most people, was a complicated person, with multiple levels and facets to his personality.
Although, if you described him simply as a “charismatic asshole”, you’d be about 90% of the way there.
There was entirely too much written about Steve Jobs for a 10 year period, and now we’re in the middle of the reaction when it’s too little (bizarre posthumous medals of honor notwithstanding).
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There is likely a much more elegant way to put this but he was almost completely devoid of every virtue that a healthy society should celebrate. As far as I know, he didn’t beat women and children, but he could be unspeakably cruel to them. The stories of him being kind when it was of no benefit to him are almost trivial. I have to think hard about it but I actually saw more irrational kindness from Martin Shkreli, a universally reviled figure.
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On the other hand he succeeded to the point of having little competition in the virtue that every society actually DOES celebrate. He built the most powerful multinational corporation in history.
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From the perspective of 2022, the other things he was credited with are being slowly erased because they were just products and ones he had no small part in making increasingly disposable. Andrew Carnegie’s legacy is in the nurturing of human minds who have no idea he even existed. Steve Jobs’ legacy is in roughly 500 million lithium batteries chucked into landfills every year, some pretty bad movies and a generation of sociopathic VCs and CEOs and wantrepreneurs he inspired.
Complicated? I’m not sure. It seems to me humans are fairly simple with an infinite capacity for complicating things especially their own lives.
If you remember the film The Money Pit, Alexander Godunov says the following :
Do you realize what you’ve done? You’ve taken a woman who loves you, one of the great women in the world and thrown her away. I lost her too, but I will get over it because I am shallow and self-centered. But you, you wont, because you are “complex”. You will feel terrible anguish for the rest of your life. This is turning out to be a pretty good day.
There’s another quote that one may consider relevant.
‘The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.’
George Bernard Shaw (maybe).
Some people like to think humans are rational and logical. And they CAN play at it. But most of us are pots of wayward chemicals simmering along until they boil over.
https://www.wired.com/story/roe-abortion-sex-worker-policy/
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This is a tiresomely American article but worlds are colliding somewhat.
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Among the first thoughts going through my mind when this judgment was issued was that is every American woman’s smartphone, period tracking application, and fitness tracker being binned.
Don’t blame Murrica!
Blame U.S. media!
Freedom of the press and all that!
I mean, technically, if you’re from Brazil, you can claim to be an American.
Jeremy I was watching video from Bryan Ferry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rer40VI9Zc
and drummer looks pretty close as you on that picture.
For all of those who think autonomous car is just around the corner (Bob Included) :
https://www.businessinsider.com/report-tesla-laid-off-about-200-people-in-autopilot-unit-2022-6?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds&utm_source=reddit.com
wwwpirate June 28, 2022 at 8:02 pm,
“For all of those who think autonomous car is just around the corner (Bob Included) ”
In my opinion, Tesla is laying off Californians who just happen to be in the autonomous car division.
Elon Musk is moving out of California to Texas.
You just don’t lay off 60% of division unless you conclude there is no way to make significant money in that division for the next few years. You don’t lay off autonomous car engineer with 10 years of experience – and there are not many of them around – unless you know next few years he will not make any money for you.
When they think people are important to them companies just relocate them – in this case they did not offer them that choice – they just laid them off.
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wwwpirate July 6, 2022 at 9:40 am – Reply:
“You just don’t lay off 60% of division unless you conclude there is no way to make significant money in that division for the next few years. You don’t lay off autonomous car engineer with 10 years of experience – and there are not many of them around – unless you know next few years he will not make any money for you.
When they think people are important to them companies just relocate them – in this case they did not offer them that choice – they just laid them off.”
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You may be partially correct – but, I’ve decades of experience in corporate planning and I’m almost certain what is the primary objective of the layoffs: close California offices and move California offices to Texas.
Indeed, perhaps part of the thinking went something like: What are the less important offices currently in California that we can close.
“Teams at the San Mateo office were tasked with evaluating customer vehicle data related to the Autopilot driver-assistance features and performing so-called data labeling. Many of the staff were data annotation specialists, all of which are hourly positions, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified discussing private information.”
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Those are jobs that can be done in Texas by cheaper employees who don’t sue Musk.
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Also note, the 200-year-old California company, Chevron Corporation, is shutting down its huge California campus and moving some of the employees to Texas. Chevron executives often complain about the amount of time that they had to spend in court because California Chevron employees were always suing Chevron.
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I’m not saying it is a good thing or a bad thing. I think it is something individuals should be aware of.
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine!
Ode to My Vibrator by Anjeneé Cannon was a good read.
No comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuZkdeU54o0
Lazy men. Why anyone thinks I give a fuck for a random youtube link or some BS article on a site I never read I don’t know. And men wonder why when the kids grow up women divorce them or turn lesbian.
Random?
It’s the Alan Parsons Project!
Would you prefer Linnea Quigley?
And seriously, after 28 years of marriage, I’m dying to live alone again!
Parsons was involved with the production of several notable albums, including the Beatles’ Abbey Road (1969) and Let It Be (1970), Pink Floyd’s The Dark Side of the Moon (1973), and the eponymous debut album by Ambrosia in 1975. He has been nominated for 13 Grammy Awards, with his first win occurring in 2019 for Best Immersive Audio Album for Eye in the Sky (35th Anniversary Edition).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Parsons
The penny just dropped today that Musk calling for an increased birthrate is exactly the same policy as pushed by Orban in Hungary to shut down immigration and out populate other ethnicities. He’s also another low tax for the rich and treat employees like serfs type, as well as treating women like dirt.
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I’ve stopped clicking on youtubes involving Musk or SpaceX or Tesla. I personally view the youtubers riding on his coat tails as willfully blind.
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A real journalist like Bob Woodward (age 79) is still going strong. Christiane Amanpour is 64 and still at the top of her game. Mark Stephens (aka Cringely age 69) not so much.
News reporter is lifetime job – technology is job for young people. There is not much innovation in reporting news – technology changes all the time plus there is so much money to be made in technology that once you become filthy rich it is difficult to go to work. How many news reporters are filthy rich ?
Bob had his time and when he was on top he was the best or one of the best – after that it was near or real retirement. He did not become filthy rich but he got a name that is recognized even today.
Trump said yesterday that Elon Musk is just bullshit artist and he might be right on that one.
I don’t get my opinions from the orange idiot like I don’t get my opinions off the equally mentally damaged hopefully soon to be ex Prime Minister Johnson.
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I know my politics and people have taken my advice for good or ill. I find the ones who come a cropper are usually the ones who are unethical. Male privilege and actually class privilege too, I suppose, are annoying. It really limits what I can say on the whole topic. Other than that I wouldn’t want to date any of the above or have any of them as a client no matter how much money they have or claim to have. Currently flirting with the idea of being a none practicing lesbian while life sorts itself out.
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Good news! Yuliia Paievska (aka Taira founder of “Taira’s Angels”) has been freed and has given her first interview since being released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqYRH55OrdI
POW freed from Russian captivity reveals what they told her
In her first interview since her release, a Ukrainian paramedic tells CNN’s Alex Marquardt about her three months in Russian captivity.
…whilst youre on holiday, you might enjoy this…
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/
https://reelgood.com/show/firefly-2002
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/638/what-was-the-original-intended-order-of-the-episodes-of-firefly
https://forums.thetvdb.com/viewtopic.php?t=35454
[…] analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reported the iPhone 13 would include satellite communication capability, remembers long-time tech pundit Robert Cringley, who adds that the prediction was denied by Apple. “This, in itself, was weird because Apple […]
“The sound of children screaming has been edited out”.
Aren’t you being a little tough on those big, strong Texas cowboys loitering in a hallway while those children were murdered?
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Silent night
Holy night
All is calm
All is bright
Mr. Cringley. Off topic but I just saw your “Triumph of the Nerds” documentary. I googled every young person you highlighted on that show and was amazed to see how many are big today. Thank you for this excellent piece. And yes, you get nerds.
[…] Apple’s Space Ambitions are Real […]
Elon Musk should buy Apple. That might be helpful. Steady hand on the tiller…
Irony
Is such a lonely word. And mostly what I need nfrom you.
Your posts smell stale like mold and mildew. You sure you don’t have a water leak somewhere? Or maybe they are just old man posts.
Yep.
Buy ’em by the 6 pack.
Ooooh!
Ageism.
You punch your granny lately?
If you’re looking for a golden shower maybe Trash could help you find one.
Does fresh mold and mildew smell stale?
I played horror VR games a couple of days ago, a couple of times I got so scared that my heart almost stopped beating. I will play it today as well 😀
This comments page feels very old-school.
About the technology, why would Apple want to use satellites for data. That’s my big question.
I gather this is all based on 2.4GHz (n53: 2483.5 – 2495 MHz), doesn’t seem like that much spectrum to me, not for data use.
So what can you do with this that’s relevant to Apple? At 2.4GHz, you probably are aiming for line of sight to the satellite too.
planes?
self driving cars – Could provide improved triangulation on top of GPS?
IoT, what does this big play look like? Surely it’s more than just AirTags.
Or is it? Global asset tracking?
https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/corporate/initiatives/spectrum
Seems like Starlink has some movement towards using 2GHz in their service. Coincidence?
https://spacenews.com/spacex-requests-spectrum-to-upgrade-starlink-mobile-services/
“Why would Apple want to use satellites for data?”
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In a world where cell towers are out of the picture, the service that has satellite capability becomes the dominant service.
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Wait, what could take cell towers out of the picture? What is left after Russia spends its conventional military capability in Ukraine? Why am I sizing up my backyard for a bunker, like it’s the 1950s all over again?
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Hint. These questions are related. As to limited scale, that’s less of an issue if your population drops by 99%.
Imagine believing capitalism-as-usual would continue after nuclear annihilation, and everyone would be like “Welp I guess Apple got the satellites I guess we have to pay them 70 bullets and 44 canned pears in payment to call the one resident left alive on the Eastern Seabord” rather than looting the remnants of the nearest federal armory and plowing through Cupertino like the Mongols running roughshod over the Pannonian plain.
Your article is quite detailed and easy to understand. Apple has been working on this since at least 2019. I also had a question about the technical capabilities of satellite services that could somehow be easily added to mobile phones and also about Apple.
Last?
With each Cringely post //
Do you wonder is it last? //
Only God and Bob know.
Sorry for botching the last line of the Haiku.
Try again..
Last?
——-
With each Cringely post //
Do you wonder is it last? //
God knows. And Bob might.
Pontificating
About things he doesn’t know
Let’s talk about DOS.
His legend lengthens //
Like supersonic contrails //
Too lofty for life.
Bob dreams of sat launches //
Eldorado was all lies //
Maybe vicariously through Apple.
You have to say the words of the last line fast so they sound like 1 syllable each. 🙂
Bob dreams of sheep shorn //
Mineserver awaiting birth //
Dreams tattered and torn
Meeting the loved ones coming back from war
https://youtu.be/kbQKU2Asjx8?t=1210
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Sorry to ruin the mood!
Did Bob’s kids apply //
to colleges based on the //
Mineserver project?
Cringely is not Trump //
But sometimes he acts like him //
With bluster and lies.
“My long awaited //
Mineserver update” says Bob //
and yet we still wait.
Twenty-twenty-one //
He said it would come after //
The book review. Nope.
New iPhone coming //
September 7 it is //
Bob’s final sat chance.
Children
without language
are like aardvarks
whispering
upon the plains of
Serengeti
because
Michael Jackson
has no eyes.
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Apple event has //
A “far out” theme with bright stars //
Is Bob maybe right?
Bob is not right but answer for space theme is here :
https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/25/t-mobile-phones-will-connect-to-starlink-for-free-starting-next-year/
Iphones will get roaming capabilities with Starlink thru ISPs.
Interesting. Apparently it requires a brand new batch of satellites to be launched by Starlink first, though. But it would conceivably work on any phone with 5G and line-of-sight to the sky. Text messages only, though.
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Maybe everybody’s getting satellite connectivity at some point. Maybe Bob was right, but not in quite the right way.
Bob was in the ballpark, and no-one else was talking about this. I think you owe the guy an apology, Jeremy 🙂
I was thinking the same thing!
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Bob, consider this a formal apology for being so harsh on you regarding your mobile satellite phone idea. I’m sorry.
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Now, this doesn’t excuse:
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a) Lying about working for Apple, consistently, for decades.
b) Lying about Mineserver being ready for, what, six years now?
c) Lying about Eldorado Space (you never bought a single plane, only Photoshopped one)
d) Any other egregious lies that aren’t in this list.
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You’re not off the hook for any of these!
I still think Bob’s idea makes more sense.
Apple shilling a StarLink product that won’t be Apple exclusive – at least not more than an initial period? An one that’s only a ailable to a small minority of Apple customers – T-mobile/Deutsche customers?
Or a free add-on to your existing Apple product that will send an emergency message from anywhere in the world – and will track your lost keys – anywhere in the world?
This satelite play is JUST about feeling secure. If you had apple’s emergency texting, you wouldn’t really need a StarLink 3G equivelent, or whatever that is.
Plus you will always find your keys, your phone, your cat – forever, and everywhere.
I like bob’s picture better, I’m gonna hold out for it. There’s no T-Mobile in Iceland anyway, so no use in that.
Macrumors.com already covers this story :
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/25/tmobile-spacex-satellite-connectivity-iphone/
Well, it is happening but with T-Mobil and not Apple.
Just wish I would get a mineserver update.
Get with the program.
.
Space Ambitions
———————-
Well tis happening //
Not Apple; but T-Mobile //
Mineserver Status?
My understanding was that Apple wanted to support Apple Watch SOS with satellite connectivity coving cell-tower dead zones in the continental US and its coastal waters.
I haven’t seen a single hint about that in months.
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Regardless, I find it bizarre that any satellite company would support SMS which is a dead-end technology as far as I know. The cell network companies are still trying to leverage SMS text – but, I just think it is stupid to build new 5G network towers with SMS support on them. I get it… SMS is there and it is paid for – but spending new investment in it? I don’t see it.
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My family’s Missouri ranch has SMS connectivity and no voice or data. I’m not exactly sure what the future for remote, rural connectivity in the continental US is going to be in the future. We keep thinking we might pony up money to install satellite-internet at our ranch – but, some of the cousins say they like being cut-off from the world on occasion and the SMS is good enough for emergencies – like if someone falls of a tractor or something.
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No matter how hard I try i can’t get excited about this topic. Out of utter boredom I re-read the topic and noted Mark Stephens (aka Cringely) had cribbed the idea off a Chinese analysts rumours and Stephens used to be, presumably not now, hired as corporate entertainment.
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As for Apple being a sugar daddy to a failed satellite company and scooping up a trillion dollar business and becoming a phone network company that’s Stephens usual boundary pushing into fantasy like Apple become a bank.
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I couldn’t care less about IoT.
How about we wait for him first, listen to his advice and make decision afterwards? Sounds good?
Yo, awesome blog mate, do you write articles yourself? You are talented!
Well, the iPhone 14 announcement is underway, and Bob was both right and wrong.
There will be a new paid monthly service, for iPhone 14 and above only. Free for the first two years. US and Canada only to start.
You have to be outdoors and the app makes you point the phone directly at the satellite (using a kind of pointy arrow display) and you can only send emergency SOS texts from a menu of options. They get heavily compressed and displayed with a grey background, as opposed to green (SMS) or blue (iMessage).
So Bob was wrong on :
– Apple did not buy GlobalStar or any satellites. This service uses existing satellites at low bandwidth.
– Nothing to do with AirTags or IoT. Not even the Apple Watch gets this feature.
– The feature isn’t automagically added via software to any iPhone. 14 and up only.
– This isn’t, in any way, a replacement for cell towers or cell service. Emergency texts only.
But Bob was right about:
– The iPhone will get some kind of satellite connectivity.
I think overall the whole episode is a kind of microcosm of the whole Cringely experience. He still has some interesting ideas and thoughts, worthy of visiting his blog at least (as long as he isn’t talking about Ukraine, yeesh). But he gets the details completely wrong and always presents them in a crazily overblown way. Specifically, Bob is weirdly obsessed about companies (imaginary ones he controls or real ones) buying “all the things” and thus conquering the world, whether it’s Mach 2.5+ airplanes or all the satellites, or whatever.
In any case, this particular case is closed.
Jeremy, as a long time lurker I’m glad to see you call it during todays announcement. I NEVER would have thought this was possible without a gigantic antenna.
Since this is breaking news I expect we will get the details wrong but something I would point out:
They did announce an additional feature outside of SOS/emergency services which is sharing your location via the FindMy network. I expect that this is not a continual sharing of location that happens in the background, but an intentional action that requires the user to orientate the device. In that case I think there is truth to Cringelys statement that “While Apple’s stated goals will be only iMessage and Find My…”
Agree with your statement of this being a “microcosm of the whole Cringely experience”. But I have to say I am floored by his prediction, even if it only amounts to a broken clock being right twice a day.
One little addendum: The presenter who announced this feature specifically pointed out how existing satellite phones have to use giant bulky antennas, and how that idea “wouldn’t work with iPhone”. This was my primary argument against the whole thing. So I was both right–you still need a big antenna to do anything useful with satellites–and wrong, in that Apple added an ultra-low bandwidth, emergency-only satellite-powered SOS messaging feature to the new iPhone 14.
I’m not sure how to think about being both right and wrong at the same time. 🙂
Second note: Apple set up “call centers” that play the intermediary between iMessage and emergency responders that can get any/all data directly.
Something like “car star” for phones? One of those “only Apple” items …
Give credit where due.
While not all came true to day,
Enough did. Kudos.
Indeed, Bob was right //
About some things not others //
Overall a win //
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And something else came out today. GlobalStar filed this document with the SEC: https://sec.report/Document/0001366868-22-000059/
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Basically it says that it’s partnered with Apple and because of the partnership, it will reserve 85% of its satellite capacity for use by the new SOS Emergency service.
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So Apple didn’t buy the company, exactly, but they bought most of their capacity. So Bob was correct about the GlobalStar connection in that respect as well.
My last comment was deleted. Struck a nerve!
Correction. I looked in the wrong topic!
[…] Apple’s Space Ambitions are Real […]
[…] he’d also called those services “proxies for Apple entering — and then dominating — the Internet of Things (IoT) business. “After all, iPhones will give them 1.6 billion points of presence for AirTag detection even […]
[…] he’d also called those services “proxies for Apple entering — and then dominating — the Internet of Things (IoT) business. “After all, iPhones will give them 1.6 billion points of presence for AirTag detection even […]
Hmm. FindMy seems to suite the above definitions of an app Apple would not invest in, too low a value in the market.
What is it worth to be able to globally track your customers for targeted ads, info, who knows what else? And tell you sooner than the competition?
Lying. I am perfect, have never misrepresented anything in my life, and my resume has always been truthful. So that alter ego can throw rocks. Unfortunately I dare not.
Truth & Speculation: So Mr. C is wrong 50% of the time. OK 60%. But I recall reading SciFi in the late 50’s. A lot of that was wrong too. Probably 90% if one includes time lines. But the ones that we got right. Being able to think about them changed my life decisions.
So, interesting thing about a (very, very) rare and very unusually worded denial (unless, like me one has worked for Apple and understands how they do press releases). Where did you get the idea that because a feature is in a product pipeline always (or mostly) means it will appear immediately?
How long were the biosensors in the iPhone? Far more extensive API’s for the position sensors than made sense, at the time?
If you think it is JUST apple, go read about “hidden” new features in Mercedes, or Porsche, or Ducati (A VW company BTW). Generally around the last year of the prior product family. Why? to get engineering and fab experience.
Re. sat for cars. The smarter the car, the slower the acceptable link. I use semi-offline maps for a lot of my (back country motorcycle) travels on a few continents. Don’t need a lot of sync bandwidth to get updates. Hmm.
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