There was a time when I could figure something out, just plain figure it out of raw data, then blurt my conclusions out to the world through this rag just to see what would happen. And what would inevitably happen was a thousand experts would pipe up just to tell me to pipe down, saying that I was too frigging stupid to read, much less write. Except occasionally I got it right (pure luck) so, damn it, they had to keep reading my work. Well I’m back to try again and here it comes: When the history of autonomous cars is written, the winner will be Tesla. Heck, I think they’ve already won.
Autonomous cars are like the graphical user interface, object-oriented programming, the Internet, or yet another K-pop boy band: you can know in advance they are coming and will define the future, you just can’t be quite certain when they will arrive or exactly what they will look like. We all now know there will come a time when most cars will be electric and they will be able to drive themselves. The only question is when will this finally happen?
IF this transition is indeed inevitable, whoever does it first without killing a bunch of folks is going to be hugely successful — Microsoft, Google, Apple-type successful. And I think that winning company will be Elon Musk’s Tesla Motors, and the point of this column is to explain exactly why I believe this, because it’s based pretty much on logic, not knowledge, which is to say I might again be too frigging stupid to read, much less write.
Before we go down this logical rabbit hole, let me blame it on my friend Jerry Kew, who lives in Cornwall in the United Kingdom. Jerry started this the other day when we were talking on the phone. Jerry’s the smart one. I’m just pretty.
So I’ve been reading auto industry reports like this one from the University of Michigan, trying to bend my punditry to understand autonomous cars. Most of the rest of this column has to do with this paper, so I’ll wait if you want to go read it…
I found the paper very interesting, but it also reminded me A LOT of the atmosphere surrounding video compression software 40+ years ago when I was working in that field at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Back then it was all sampling and algorithms and when will Moore’s Law get us to the point where we can compress and decompress video in real time? The version of that here is when will we be able to autonomously drive within an acceptable budget measured in both dollars and watts?
But I’m not sure that’s the right question to ask, because I think that autonomous cars 10 years from now won’t even work the way this paper suggests.
The solution they describe in the paper is too hard. Forty-one terabytes of map data may be nothing a decade from now, but do we really even need it? Will we really need to have a map of every mailbox and manhole cover in America just to leave our homes? I don’t need that to drive today. Why should my autonomous car need a zillion times more data than I need as a human driver?
Then there’s the processing, which I think they have backwards or maybe inside-out. They seem to anticipate a driving universe where I’d be looking for a driving experience.
I have a teenage son who has had his drivers license for less than a month and he just got back from a driving trip by himself to Santa Barbara and back. How could he possibly do that without killing someone? True, he drove as a passenger with me for tens of thousands of miles and probably picked-up some driving knowledge as well as swear words, but what made him ready for this trip? Was he just lucky? No, he followed the rules, completing a tightly defined task. US 101 is less than a mile from our house and less than a mile from his destination in Santa Barbara, making the longish drive actually pretty simple: get on the freeway and head south.
Now think about Tesla. Tesla has more than a million data-gathering devices on the roads. We call them cars. Tesla cars have no LIDAR but they have eight cameras and RADAR. Every night all those cars wirelessly report their driving data back to Tesla. I would love to know how Tesla decided what to put in those reports. Given the limited bandwidth LTE connection involved, it can’t be a complete data dump. They have to pick and choose what to report.
And what does Tesla do with the reports? I think it comes down to algorithms, mapping, and exceptions. They are logically trying to improve their algorithms, improve their maps, but mainly — after having already parsed billions of miles of driving data — they are looking for exceptional events that are testing their algorithms in ways never seen before. It’s not just three cars approaching a four-way stop, it’s three cars approaching a four-way stop with one driver drunk, another having an argument and — by the way — there’s an earthquake. You can’t make up this stuff — it has to really happen.
Let’s contrast Tesla and Waymo, Google’s autonomous car operation. Waymo came first and they have had cars driving around Mountain View for more than a decade, but most of Waymo’s algorithm development has been based on computer simulations, not actual driving. Waymo has driven millions of miles, sure, but they have simulated driving billions of miles. The only problem with this — basing algorithms on simulations — is that real life isn’t a simulation and it brings unexpected conditions — those exceptions I referred to above — that a designer might never think of. That’s where Tesla, with hundreds of thousands of cars out on the road every day, driving half-a-billion miles-per-week, has a huge advantage.
Going back to the video compression analogy, it’s like the difference between lossless and lossy compression. The systems described in this research paper are trying to do lossless, which is to say coming to a definitive answer every 100 milliseconds. Lossy, which requires two orders of magnitude less bandwidth, defines success as being good enough that humans can’t easily tell the difference.
My son driving to Santa Barbara was lossy, not lossless. But the other definition of lossy here is the kid made it back home and nobody was hurt.
A very simple way to do video compression is by defining a dictionary of video elements. Parse the data, detect elements that are already in the dictionary, transmit those as simple catalog numbers, then use the rest of the bandwidth for transmitting elements NOT (yet) in the dictionary. Every night Tesla is improving their driving dictionary, improving the fleet’s ability to function and survive in a lower bandwidth environment.
One state of autonomous driving is NOT driving, remember. Worst case, the car can’t solve the problem so it parks. That, all by itself, probably cuts the processing load by 10. We have a car, a dictionary of driving experiences, a relatively simple set of algorithms for combining those experiences with the mission plan, and the ability to say “hell no” if it all gets too hard.
That’s my guess how autonomous driving will actually work. WHEN it will work is the big question, but I have an idea about that, too.
Tesla has a dual processor system in their cars — two completely distinct computers. Why? It really makes no sense. If it was really a matter of redundancy there would be three computers, not two, so they could vote on every decision, rejecting the vote of the processor gone insane. Two processors don’t offer a good argument over just adding cores, either. Why go to the bother of total hardware duplication?
Because every night is an A-B test for Tesla — a test that is running on your car. One processor is driving the car (or following the driver’s actions if Autopilot isn’t being used, which is most of the time) with production software while the second processor is running beta software, simulating the drive, and noting discrepancies between the two software versions. Multiply this times a million cars per night.
Whether Autopilot is used or not doesn’t matter: the evolution of the software continues. And it’s finished when the beta software stops improving and the outcome shows the only difference between human and Autopilot driving is that Autopilot does it better. Continue for another month or year or decade just to confirm your results, then announce that full autonomous mode is available. That is exactly where I believe Tesla has been heading for as long as those two-processor cars have been on the road.
Tesla’s autonomous driving software could be ready right now for all we know. Elon certainly hints at this from time to time in his tweets. And THAT’s why I believe Tesla has already won the autonomous driving war, because they have real cars facing real exceptions that you won’t find in a simulation, and their dual processor system knows what it knows.
Yes, I reached out to Tesla about this last week. They still haven’t replied.
I just bought a Tesla Model S and the first experiences I’ve had with the self-driving features reminded me of my helicopter flight training years ago. Back then, I was Autopilot and my IP (Instructor Pilot) was Driver. We measured my progress by the number of times he had to seize the controls to keep us from crashing. At first, it was several times per minute but after 8 hours of dual instruction, he got out and sent me on my way solo.
The process is similar in my Tesla. Autopilot is a pretty slow learner but each over-the-air update seems to make it marginally better. Flying is simpler than driving, though and I feel the transition to letting Autopilot solo is going to be a much longer task.
So by your logic, if someone is driving in an automobile they experienced an “unexpected condition” which led to the crash. I’m going to have to use this explanation to a police officer next time I have an accident on the means streets of the Bay Area. So long as I am not at fault.
Wally, not meaning to pick on you,… but,.. why does everyone connect these two?
> “unexpected condition” which led to the crash
The Achilles heel of self driving will not be crashes, it will be stopping.
Any time it see something it does not like it will slow to a stop.
We see that today with waiting forever to do a unprotected left (Waymo)
or phantom stops (Tesla). Police will be forever investigating who
caused the massive stoppage on the 405.
Excellent article. Model 3 owner here for the past year. I agree with everything you said, except for one slight point: every Tesla owner I know has their car on their WiFi network when they are home because that’s how you get the software updates (though I think you can force an update via LTE if you’re away). So I believe more data is being sent back than you think, though I have zero data to back that up. Call it a hunch.
Completely agree: NO LTE, WiFi!!
We all upload multiple GB of driving data each month.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/cvb6wa/tesla_owner_reports_uploading_7_gb_in_a_month/
AutoPilot has been standing still for quite a while now, due to a complete rewrite of the core software. End of the year its supposed to be rolled out widely. BIG steps expected soon after that.
My Model 3 has uploaded 17.46 GB over WiFi in the past 30 days, and that’s during a pandemic when it’s not being used much. I don’t have a way of tracking what it’s sending over 4G, but I assume that it’s doing its uploads mostly over WiFi, and doing it over 4G for things like log data related to vehicle systems in general, not anything heavy on data.
Here are a few holes in your logic, in no particular order–
* I’m in the Great Lakes area, there are very few Teslas here–the nearby Supercharger rarely has any cars at it, most I’ve ever seen was three (of 8 slots) in the last several years. In other words they are getting very little local data–may take a very long time to have full coverage of the USA.
* From misc. sources, I understand that nearly all the self driving systems have to ignore stationary things, otherwise they would be false-alarm braking all the time–thus the Tesla accidents where they rear end a stopped emergency vehicle on the freeway. Haven’t read of anyone solving this “minor” problem yet…
* Here’s a pure statistical look https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1400/RR1478/RAND_RR1478.pdf at the mileage required to prove these things are safe. First finding: “Autonomous vehicles would have to be driven hundreds of millions of miles and sometimes hundreds of billions of miles to demonstrate their reliability in terms of fatalities and injuries.” I don’t know about you, but matching the USA fleet average for safety (“…1.09 fatalities per 100 million miles.”) isn’t nearly good enough for me. As a rough guess, my demographic (mature age, no driving impaired, car well maintained, several advanced driver/racing courses) might move me over an order of magnitude from that fleet average driver (but still not perfectly safe). And remember, those demonstration miles have to be on the roads I normally use–Bay Area roads and traffic don’t look much like the snowy, icy & pot-holed Great Lakes.
Your reasoning is off.
“* little local data–may take a very long time to have full coverage of the USA.”
You missed the clue here. Tesla is NOT that interested in local specifics. Tesla trains its software to act/react to circumstances. The miles are needed to see 99.9999% of all outlier situations and train the system how to behave in that situation. Any Tesla can drive where no Tesla has gone before, just like you.
“* ..ignore stationary things….”
That’s a radar thing. At this point radar is heavily relied on, vision less. Latest driving pc + new software will combine radar with vision: solved.
“* …hundreds of millions of miles and sometimes hundreds of billions of miles…”
Tesla is doing that and every new Tesla sold adds to the mileage/month. The car doesn’t have to be perfect (no tech is ever perfect), it only has to be 10x safer than a human. 2019: Autopilot 9x safer than people.
“mature age, no driving impaired, car well maintained, several advanced driver/racing courses”
Remember: you’ll be driving sub-optimal some day = tired, mad about some argument, distracted by something. Happens to everybody, but not to a computer.
Also: you may be the perfect driver, but there are millions of idiots around you. Replacing THEM by a good system may save your butt someday.
Re: “Happens to everybody, but not to a computer.” Computers may not get “tired” but they do crash. Sometimes they crash due to hardware, software, drivers, or even malware. Cars without computers only have to contend with hardware and drivers. (Puns intended.)
Just because you don’t see a lot of them doesn’t mean that they aren’t there. Ask people who grew up in the days of phone booths and coin operated parking meters if they ever saw anybody empty one. I happened daily in many places. I live near a RR crossing. I saw somebody stopped on the tracks today, which isn’t uncommon, because “that track isn’t being used.” In 27 years in the neighborhood, I’ve seen a train go through that crossing once, possibly twice. But I can hear the train from my house when it’s heading toward that crossing, and I know that it happens every day. One minute out of 24 hours leaves little chance of seeing it at random.
Aside from that, it’s not your area that it needs to learn, but any exceptional features. Does it have a stop sign that’s crooked or with graffiti on it? Does it have an intersection that’s so unusual that nobody would expect it? Does it have a driver who often cuts people off and then swerves out of his lane? Even if it does, Tesla has a database with hundreds of thousands of such stop signs, so the car will probably be just fine when it gets to your neighborhood. They’ve experienced plenty of drivers who don’t follow the rules, and know what to predict. It doesn’t matter if the driver lives near you.
The car isn’t learning the individual streets, but going by general rules to drive on them, just as you’d drive on an unfamiliar road. The learning part is for exceptions. If the car could handle 99% of things just fine, that 1% would mean a potential 10,000 accidents per day. So they need to handle those exceptions until it’s better than 99.999% accurate.
I live in Michigan and own a Model S. I have home WiFi and the autopilot does upload quite a bit of data from the car. It also gets better with updates.
Tesla started their own insurance which will branch out to other states. They will end up insuring the car itself for self driving especially if on the robotaxi network. (Model 3/Y for robotaxi network….not S/X).
I get so tired of people saying it can’t be done, Tesla won’t do this or that and yet-eventually they do. Just sit back, relax and watch history being made.
The only reason why you don’t see many Teslas around here is because many people around here are slow to understand or just plain stuck thinking gas is better. Well….it ain’t. No way would I ever buy a gas car again.
As I understand it – the problem is not that Autopilot is confused and ignores stationary objects. The problem is “what to do if a stationary object suddenly appears directly in front of you at freeway speeds?” There have been several accidents I recall reading about:
– Car hits a truck broadside that is turning left in front of it. Apparently a white tractor trailer against a white sky was not detected as an obstacle by the visual analysis of camera data. so… no stop.
-Car runs into back of stopped fire truck on freeway. The car was following another, which switched lanes at the last moment to reveal the stopped fire truck. This is a classic accident, human or not. The logic here is that the computer will not jam on the brakes and make a stop-as-fast-as-you can maneuver at 60mph based on a stationary object suddenly appearing. The danger is that this could be phantom braking for a artifact. The computer can follow the deer or small human running into the road, or the car driving across the path – but cannot be certain whether a stationary obstacle is just an artifact. The obvious solution is to program for the “revealed obstacle” situation, where the obstacle may have been hidden until another object moves out of the way. The other point is to ensure that safe following distances still happen.
-I once rented a Model S and testing autopilot, I caught it trying to split the difference at a fork in the road where a lane splits off, was headed for the middle spot where the lanes diverge. This also happened to someone in California, and the car hit the abutment between the freeway lane and the off-ramp.
Each case here is different, and points to a issue with autopilot which needs further analysis and refinement. For every such accident, there were probably a hundred or more incidents where the driver (as they are supposed to) took over and corrected the vehicle. As the article points out, this is probably the data being uploaded and analyzed. Every time you take over from autopilot because you know better, that’s a data point to be dissected to improve autopilot.
It seems to me that the biggest holdup for self-driving cars is insurance. I think a company would be insane to offer insurance policies on early self-driving vehicles, until they prove themselves. And they are not allowed on the road without it.
Note: Tesla are offering insurance; starting in California
Tesla may be selling insurance for the human driver, but Tesla is NOT insuring it’s autopilot program as an independent machine driver.
In a self-driving world, I’m sleeping or watching a movie in the comfortable back seat, I’m damn well not responsible for accident claims. Tesla is only selling “real” self driving when they Tesla insure their own vehicle for crashes.
I would say it’s even worse than that — when I was a teen, my father caused a mid speed pile-up (wasn’t looking where he was driving), and (in my opinion) was 100% at fault, BUT, when the police officers arrived, they noticed that a Hispanic father-son duo in the frontmost car were quickly swapping seats, so as to make it look like the (licensed) father was driving, instead of the (unlicensed) son — blame immediately fell upon them.
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We’ll see something like this in the semi-automated driving realm — no, officer, my car’s lane avoidance feature kicked in, no, judge, my anti-lock brakes fought me tooth and nail, no, sergeant, I wasn’t driving, the car was on self-mode (or vice versa) — some sort of data-pull, however basic or remedial, is going to be necessary, whether on-scene or via manufacturer subpoena.
That would depend on the state. In California, manufacturers have to provide proof that they can cover damages caused by the operation of autonomous vehicles on public roads of up to $5 million. The financial proof can take the form of a surety bond, evidence of insurance, or a certificate of self-insurance. Since it’s a requirement for deployment, it should cover the “driver” of the vehicle, according to the Insurance Journal.
The question is what happens when a human takes over. If you think that the car is about to crash, slam on the brakes and hit something, that means that the car was under human control at the time of the accident. The car’s computer might show that its trajectory would have resulted in a swerve, and visual data from immediately after the crash will show whether that area would have been clear, for example. It’s really an open question what the real life rules will be when a person has access to controls in a car capable of autonomous operation. It will likely be up to the courts, and you will still need insurance if the car can be operated manually, so it will come down to whether your insurance company sues the manufacturer or not.
Tesla doesn’t download clips wirelessly over LTE they do it over Wifi. If you don’t have wifi, Tesla doesn’t download your clips.
Also historically Tesla has not used the A/B computers for running preproduction code. Hackers have confirmed the system utilization and Tesla isn’t doing that ?yet?.
The problem is that radar has bad angular resolution. Tesla has to ignore stationary objects so that they won’t freak out for cars stopped on the side of the road or signs hanging over the road. This is why Teslas keep hitting squad cars on the side of the road and multiple cars have hit big white box trucks making slow left turns across a travel lane.
Tesla’s approach is reasonable, but avoiding a Lidar may have been a bad idea.
Teslas don’t keep hitting squad cars. They’ve had around 2 billion miles of use, and it has happened, but that’s under Autopilot, not using the FSD system that models things with data from eight cameras with the FSD computer. It’s also something that was clearly outlined in the manual.
Likewise, if the car in front of you is headed toward a stopped firetruck, it doesn’t slow down, and it swerves out of the way at the last instant, older Autopilot software couldn’t handle it. The current one isn’t designed to handle it if you go by the warnings in the manual, but in FSD mode it surely wouldn’t tailgate anybody, and would have known about a traffic controlled intersection anyway, plus it can move out of a lane to avoid something. It’s actually fairly common these days for a Tesla to move partly into another lane when it sees that part of a lane is blocked or even that a car is drifting and might end up in the lane.
Responding to PostTheological:
* Note that 95% of people charge there cars at home overnight. Supercharger use is only the tip of the iceburg.
* May not be true for the new version of Autopilot (to be rolled out at the end of the year)
* “As of February 2020, Andrej Karpathy, Tesla’s head of AI and computer vision, states that: Tesla cars have driven 3 billion miles on Autopilot…” from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot. Given that the Telsa fleet is growing about 40% per year. The huge numbers may be doable faster than you expect.
As a general note – it’s very easy to underestimate Tesla’s pace of incremental improvements. The exponential function can really sneak up on you.
Having worked in compression, I like the analogy of lossy vs. lossless compression. And I do agree with you that if you try to get a car to be a “lossy” autonomous vehicle that’s the correct approach. Tesla has said as much when they say FSD will be ready when it’s better than a human by some multiple.
But I’m particularly intrigued by your notion of running different software versions on the two processors. I watched the Autonomy Day presentation and since then I never really understood why there was full redundancy. Because as you say, how do you even know which is correct without a vote? And really once you get the information into the processor it’s 1s and 0s… Unless we’re talking about radiation effects from space and then that’s a whole other story.
Maybe you’re correct that the dual chip architecture is part of training the beast. That’s a very interesting idea that I will have to consider. Thanks!
I have never driven a Tesla nor a self driving car. However I wonder if while the car is being manually driven the processor is busy watching what the driver does in various circumstances and using that to improve its algorithms?
Yes, that’s what Bob said in his article. Tried to keep up!
We’ll have VTOL DeLoreans before cars do the driving for us. The flying car pipe dream has a 100 year head start.
Meh. I don’t care enough about this Chinese meal of a blog to post the comment I had drafted. Classic Cringely clickbait to suck in the eyeballs.
Tesla has explicitly already said in public almost everything you just said plus a LOT LOT more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE
This was recorded last year. The only difference is the way the redundant CPU works (they have had a “shadow mode” for a long time and as for whether is bound to a CPU or distributed is somewhat academic) and their time estimates (Tesla thought at the time that it would be already available by now.)
Re: “Worst case, the car can’t solve the problem so it parks.” No, the worst case is the car can’t solve the problem and it can’t park.
Re: “Tesla has a dual processor system in their cars — two completely distinct computers. Why? It really makes no sense. If it was really a matter of redundancy there would be three computers, not two, so they could vote on every decision, rejecting the vote of the processor gone insane.” The reason for two processors is the same as the reason for a spare tire. We are not trying to use the best 4 of the 5 tires. We simply want to be able to switch to the spare when it’s clear one is bad.
Re: “Worst case, the car can’t solve the problem so it parks.” No, the worst case is the car can’t solve the problem and it can’t park.
Did I misunderstand this statement? If the problem the car can’t solve is changing lanes safely or keeping a proper distance from the car in front, wouldn’t that be an issue for, oh, the guy behind you on the highway? LOL
Surely I am not interpreting this correctly and I’d be open to a better read of it.
And to clarify, I was talking about Bob’s original statement – not your reply. Perhaps, if understand it correctly we are asking somewhat the same question.
Driving is one of the many things humans can do very easily, but a computer can’t do at all. Hell, even a mouse can easily get thru a maze. That is hard for a computer. I don’t see anyone explaining this very well, let alone solving the problem.
If your solution is to “map” everything that can happen while driving, you will never solve this. Imagine a database lookup for earthquake, rabbit, snow and bicycle. Look this up and load the “solution” within 1ms, because any slower and you just crashed.
The 16YO student driver does not have a map of billions of scenarios in his skull. He has a few dozen rules of the road, plus hand/eye coordination, plus common sense. Kindly explain why computers cannot do this.
What about all those miles and miles of miles and miles which Google drove taking pictures out of which to create maps, did they gather any other data at the time?
“I reached out to Tesla about this last week. They still haven’t replied.”
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Oh, the irony! How does it feel to be ignored? Asking for a friend.
@Jerome
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I imagine Tesla took one look at Cringelys email and considered he wasn’t paying attention or didn’t fit into their marketing matrix and nobody wanted Crinegly to be claiming they were his new bestest friend in a future blog. In other words people have got wise to Cringelys scam. His gossip factory got the attention of Gates and Jobs and a few others back in the day. I’m guessing Teslas silence means something. Like Cringely thinks a multibillion dollar company with lawyers and marketers on staff or retainer wouldn’t check him out first? Given Tesla would also be sensitive about anything which might impact their stock price movement and Cringely worked for a now defunct financial website (because nobody else would employ him after making things up about IBM) I expect this might explain some shyness on Teslas part.
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I’m guessing Cringely is responding to the claim he is an American centric-hack by citing a “friend” in Cornwall and reading academic papers. Then he blows it by claiming to work at Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. So did the janitor! Has Cringely cited any “friends” who worked there or is he on their Do Not Call list too?
I’m that friend. We were chatting and I observed that I thought it an interesting possibility that the second cpu could, given Musk’s keenness for iteration, be used to test daily or even greater frequency stack builds. They would be safe enough for backup, but goal would be to report back where it made a different decision than the current version. It was a thought experiment that I was flattered that he agreed it might be possible, Bob then went off to explore whether it was either possible or was actually happening. Bob did get Cornwall wrong though, I’m across the border in Devon. Bob is now doing penance by researching how scones should be served. Priorities I say.
[…] Tesla won the autonomous driving war because they have real cars facing real exceptions not found in a simulation and their dual processors know it. View full source […]
Your video example with lossy vs. lossless is an excellent insight to the truth of self-driving cars; to succeed, self-driving cars don’t need to be perfect, just no worse than the monkeys currently doing it.
Two favorite quotes about AI, neither of them mine.
1) Everything AI does looks impossible… until it’s done. At that point the goalposts simply move. Oh, optical character recognition? That’s easy! But computers will never understand your voice!
2) Airplanes can’t land on tree branches like birds. But yet they fly. Autonomous cars don’t need to do every possible thing a human can do behind the wheel.
Published quarterly: https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
I don’t see AI as being much different than you or your kid driving, drive the same roads all the time and it’s easy, drive a few new ones and it means learning – but what happens when you turn onto a single track road and there’s a bus coming straight towards you? Can you pull off to the side – no the road isn’t wide enough and there are stone walls on both sides. I’ve been driving in Wales occasionally all my life and have never had any problems but how would Telsa’s AI handle a new road that it has never seen before?
> I don’t see AI as being much different than you or your kid driving,
Perhaps not externally, but internally I think the differences are profound. Take a look at how some minor changes (like graffiti?) on a road sign affects AI pattern matching. A person from any of the “car culture” countries still knows that they are looking at a stop sign, the AI may completely flip out. Here’s the first hit I found, there are many others: https://thenewstack.io/camouflaged-graffiti-road-signs-can-fool-machine-learning-models/
It’s important to remember that current AI is far from any normal definition of intelligence, still much closer to pattern matching than the proponents would like you to believe. Very deep pattern matching for sure, but still a very dumb process.
Thanks to the others that commented on my previous post. Looking forward to reading about the new Tesla Autopilot software release, whenever it comes out.
I find Cringelys claim that Tesla “won” to be a bit childlike. Won what and by whose definition? I’m also not sure anyone wants technical opinions off someone who can’t deliver Mineserver on budget or on time. Cringely cannot afford to refund the $35,452 he scalped 388 backers for but can afford to fund one of sons a luxury lifestyle at 16? Curious, that.
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There’s actually a pretty good article in the Guardian today laying out the reasons why the US which is spending $740 billion on its luxury military lifestyle owes compensation to the 37 million plus displaced by two decades of US led wars.
“but can afford to fund one of sons a luxury lifestyle at 16? Curious, that.”
Not that I’m one to defend Crookely, but it seems likely that the teenager in question is 18 and headed to college in Santa Barbara. Yep, one of those baby boys who ran a company — gee, what was that called? Mineserver? — back in the day is all growed up (sorta.) I wonder if he listed his experience running a company on his college apps? Anyway, I’m not sure that going to uni counts as a “luxury lifestyle” (although, for what it costs, it really oughta!)
But, at least we know where the money from the Mineserver project went.
Re: “it seems likely that the teenager in question is 18 and headed to college in Santa Barbara”. While I’m inclined to agree, I couldn’t find any place where Bob actually said the teenager was “18” or that he was going to college. All he said in the article was that his teenager drove to Santa Barbara. Perhaps he went there to visit a friend, or make use of his new license, or see if he actually wanted to go to college there. From the DMV: https://www.dmv.org/ca-california/teen-drivers.php
Tesla is no longer called Tesla Motors.
I’ll be impressed when a self-driving car can drive around Cornwall.
Not holding my breath on that one.
Having watched prototype self drive cars from a number of manufactures cause serious traffic flow disturbances and hold ups on 101 on the Peninsula for more than a decade (no problems of course on the empty 280) and watched the same kind of cars suddenly stop in the middle of 16’th St in SF because it could not deal with a simple city driving situation like a MUNI bus lane splitting self-drive cars are a product liability lawyers dream. And having seen the same cars kill several drivers due to the known very serious limitation in the software (the 101S/85W split accident in MV being the most egregious example) I will celebrate the day they are made illegal by the NHTSA.
As for Tesla, little more than a very complex money laundering front by this stage. Making tax payer subsided luxury cars of dubious quality for the richest 2%.
TFourrier, living under a rock lately?
Tesla hit the 600,000 limit for tax subsidies over a year ago and buyers are no recieve federal tax credits. Also, Tesla paid off tthe government automaker load years ago, with interest. Taxpayers have made millions of dollars off of Tesla’s economic productivity. Tesla is the beginning of a resurgence in American manufacturing adding jobs and the associated taxes to the federal budget.
In terms of the income level of Tesla buyers, Tesla has gradually lowered prices on all it’s cars as batteries become cheaper and volume efficiencies drive down the cost to make a Tesla. The least expensive trim of the Model 3 costs under 40K and teachers, firemen, policemen and even restaurant/bar workers are buying them. If you are doing well enough to afford a new car, you can afford a Tesla. They actually cost less to own than many popular cars like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry once you factor in the higher resale value after 6 years, gas oil changes, brakes, insurance, etc.
Many people don’t know these things so don’t feel ashamed. But it’s probably best not to comment on things you don’t know about.
Under a rock? Some of us have been sitting on top of rocks for many decades watching the various scams and frauds come and go.
What about the $6 billion plus state and federal money over the years? Then all the very creative accounting (even by dot com standards) in their 10Q’s and 10K’s. If you believe Tesla press releases I have a Bay Bridge to sell you. The Cantilever one. Then there are the CARB slush funds. No one has an idea where those billions go.
The demographics of Tesla owners in California, the majority of the market over the last 10 years has not changed much. Its the 3’rd or 4’th car for the 1%, the 2’nd car for the 2% and the only car for a bunch of cranks. Almost all very well paid engineers. Sales in the rest of the world are driven by massive taxpayers subsides. Remove the subsides, like in Norway (half the price of the car), and sale collapse to almost nothing very quickly. One immense tax payer subsidized fraud.
You should hear the gossip down in LA about what goes on in Bel Air and the people Musk hangs out with. As I said little more than a giant money launderer operation by this stage. The only question now is does he kill himself first before he is finally busted for massive criminal fraud. The Tesla operation makes Theranos look as honest and squeaky clean as the Salvation Army.
Someone who recently bought a Tesla told me, the $35000 base price is a scam.
It is $35000, after accounting for fuel savings.
Tesla won’t have an autonomous car by 2021,or 2022, or 2023, …, or 2029. They are so far from L5 that it’s absurd to think they are one update away from a car that drives better than the average human driver. Over the next decade you true-believers in the Elon cult will have to make ever-more excuses for the lack of a robotaxi. I suspect you’ll try to blame the regulators for a while, but that won’t work forever. You’ll probably just stop talking about it by 2025, when Waymo and others have robotaxi services in urban centers, and Tesla FSD is still an L2 driver-assist technology. Elon will eat his words about Lidar and mapping. You’ll see.
From a friend who owns a Tesla to whom I forwarded the column:
I’m less optimistic than he is.
Elon’s been overpromising Full Self Driving (FSD, as Tesla calls it) for many years now. When I bought my current car in late 2016, Elon assured us that a Tesla would autonomously drive itself across the country by the end of next year.
We’re still waiting.
I might have lost count, but I think Tesla’s on their third “head of FSD software development” since then. Each time we’re promised a ground-up rewrite of the FSD software will bring amazing new capabilities. In fact we’re just recently been promised this again:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1294374864657162240
“The FSD improvement will come as a quantum leap, because it’s a fundamental architectural rewrite, not an incremental tweak. I drive the bleeding edge alpha build in my car personally. Almost at zero interventions between home & work. Limited public release in 6 to 10 weeks.”
(I suppose someone could tell Elon that a “quantum leap” is actually the smallest possible improvement, but I digress…)
At Tesla’s “autonomy day” investor meeting last April, Elon again promised full autonomy by the end of the year. The most recent software update to my car added the ability to recognize traffic lights and stop signs. As a safety feature, the car will stop at _all_ controlled intersections unless you manually tell it to proceed, regardless of the state of the signal.
So: “Full autonomy by the end of 2019” turns into “18 months later, the car stops at green lights”.
Admittedly the current software is better than anything else out there right now. While of limited use on surface streets, it’s quite good on the highway, and largely fulfills Tesla’s claim of “entrance ramp to exit ramp” autonomy. Still, it’s no better at this task than it was a year ago, honestly, although fanbois claim they can feel things like smoother lane changes.
I recently had all the computers in the car upgraded. The FSD computer upgrade, switching from an Nvidia chip to Tesla’s own chip, was free, since I had paid for FSD back in 2016 (and been definitively told at the time that the car had “all the hardware required” for FSD). However, the new FSD computer doesn’t play nice with the old MCU (Media Control Unit) that runs everything else, leading to long delays for some functions that worked perfectly before. For example, pressing the button on the steering wheel to invoke a voice command now involved lengthy (5-10 seconds) delays before the prompting beep, which was annoying.
Fortunately for only $2,500, Tesla was happy to upgrade my car to the new “MCU2” hardware. Now everything works instantly, which is nice. Of course I lost the FM and XM radios since they were analog signals into the old MCU and the new one is digital input only, and new radios aren’t available, but honestly, I never listen to the radio any more anyway.
So while I’m happy with the car, Elon really has no credibility with me on FSD schedules. Will we ever see it? I suspect what we’ll get is a slow, drip-drip-drip of minor incremental improvements for the next few years, with FSD always being just over the next hill.
Oh well. It’s still better than anyone else’s.
A quantum leap is an instantaneous change in energy levels as opposed to a continuous transition between two states. The phrase is intended to refer to the nature of the change (instantaneous jump), not the size of the energy state difference.
Guy above is right – you are using too narrow definition of quantum leap.
Cambridge dictionary defines quantum leap as a great improvement or important development in something.
Link:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/quantum-leap
Merriam-Webster dictionary shows with examples pretty much same thing as Cambridge dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quantum%20leap#h1
After reading again you are absolutely right and guy above above got it wrong – my mistake
From your two links, I’d say there is a subtle difference between “jump” and “leap”:
Quantum Leap: a great improvement or important development in something”.
Quantum Jump: an abrupt transition from one discrete energy state to another.
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I have clients from every corner of the British Isles including Scotland, Ireland, Wales, London, Durham, and Devon and Cornwall. I’m desperately thinking of something I can shoehorn in about Cornwall but Cornwall is really a bit on the sleepy side so nothing springs easily to mind. I have a vague inkling one client came from Padstow. Thinking of Padstow and fish if anyone wants to kill time during this pandemic Rock Steins food programmes are well worth a watch. Cockles cooked in steam in ten seconds? Gosh, who knew?
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I do agree navigating the country roads in Cornwall is a bit of challenge. Now if a robo car can escape Slough it may be a winner. (This is a British in joke Americans won’t get.) I suspect this kind of cultural background explains the Hammer Horror movie about some people becoming trapped in a village which didn’t appear on the map.
Make tin foil hat and put it on your head Bob.
Self driving cars, flying cars and artificial intelligence will not happen in your lifetime Bob and probably same for quantum computing.
All those things are just fancy stories for geeks who want to see what they want to see (hear) and wanna be technology writers.
Bob at some point you were by far the best technology writer but in order to be that you need 2 things:
– inside information
– lot of reading and following things.
You lack both of these things Bob.
Regarding self driving cars which is your topic in this article you did not read article on slashdot.org which
stated that each company with self driving cars has to file a report with California DMV (I might be wrong here about the exact name of the agency because it was months ago) but anyway according to reports drivers which are in each car anyway had to intervene every 15-20 minutes on average.
I think again (can be wrong again about time frame) that reports have to be filed every 3 months.
Bob I noticed on numerous occasions that you just do not follow technology things in details any more. You just hear something that sounds interesting and you make story about that which is not serious journalism.
Auto-driving isn’t the war, it’s a battle. Can Tesla compete and scale… that’s the war.
Cars seem exciting right now because auto-driving and emergency brake assist are defining features (“killer app” probably needs a synonym in the automobile world), but what’s the spotlight after that? Tesla faces the Apple dilemma: killer apps can catapult a company, but they are also incredibly rare and there’s no algorithm for inventing them. That’s probably why Elon is going after moonshot stuff with different companies; serial killer apps is something few companies ever achieve, but a single killer app in different industries isn’t too hard since the list of moon shots is well known.
I just want an integrated transport system with a single application I can book a journey. Everything from taxis to buses to planes to trains all joined up. Auto-refunds and or auto-compensation for delays or failures including auto-booking of hotels if a stopover is needed would be helpful too.
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As for robocars I just want a Rolls Royce class experience from A to B. If I recall the Ritz charges £300 per hour for a chauffered Rollys Royce but that is a magnitude higher than I’m prepared to pay. Double glazed windows and sound proofing aren’t exactly unknown features. How anyone can stomach travelling in a rattling tin can buffeted by wind noise while wrapped in polyester I don’t know. Wait and drive back would be helpful too for my line of work. I’m surprised its not standard.
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“Excitment” and “killer apps” and “moonshots” and “monopolies” and all that dick swinging stuff aren’t my thing. Give me quality and reliability and ambiance every time.
Hey trashtalk
> I just want an integrated transport system with a single application I can book a journey.
We used to have that in the USA, very civilized. It was called a travel agency, and our tiny company had a very good travel agent that we always worked with. When we were stuck in S. Korea without seat assignments back home, we called our travel agent and he got them for us. I don’t know how he did that (all we got was put on hold), but he managed. I think his business did alright on the commissions that were built into airline ticket prices (back then).
Self serve travel arrangements (Travelocity, etc) are crap, but what choice do we have these days? Getting rid of the travel agent commission might have made the fare price lower, but it didn’t lower my costs (accounting for my time fighting a variety of websites).
Threaded discussions don’t work which is why I continue posting in flatform.
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Everyone arguing about the definition of “quantum leap” is being pedantic and trying to be clever to win a point so they can confirm their cognitive bias and Stockholm syndrome. It is well known what quantum refers to in scientific circles. Science is science and really has nothing to do with your ego. Reality doesn’t care. The phrase “quantum leap” refers as the OP stated to the smallest measure of a leap possible as opposed to giant leap forwards or moonshot etcetera. This is the meaning or intent behind the phrase and quite clear to anyone with minimal knowledge or “common sense”.
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I suppose having torn the OPs challenging of the phrase “quantum leap” to bits (in your mind) you think this invalidates the OPs general argument and by this the challenge to Cringelys admitted in the first paragraph nonsense. See also: bullshit, throwing spaghetti at the wall, rhetoric.
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I doubt the CEO of Daimler Benz will be holding board meetings off the back of this blog and folding the company in defeat. There really is nothing special about Tesla other than taking advantage of the American government encouraging and dishing favours out to monopolies. The American stockmarket is way overvalued and really just a continuation of Alan Greenspans “all sizzle and no sausage” ponzi scheme to attract foreign investment and offload bad debt onto foreign markets. The second you use an American component or touch the international financial system you are open to blackmail. Without a flood of European and Asian brains into the immigration system the US economy would not be able to steal tomorrows innovation but find its economy collapse.
“the ability to say “hell no” if it all gets too hard.”
That’s what Subaru’s EyeSight does. About 3 1/2 years ago I was driving an Outback on I-15 in Utah during a snowstorm. Once the road markings got too covered by drifting snow the system sounded alarms (and there were visual alarms as well) and then shut off.
On dry pavement, in good weather, on the freeway, Eyesight is almost good enough for self driving. Almost. The lane-keeping assist tends to wander from one side of the lane to the other, and it has problems with on and off ramps. Fix that and it’s self driving on the freeway.
Has to be something ominous that Tesla’s ‘dual processor’ systems are doing with all that extra compute power… Nothing like edge multi-sensor vision and Control automation (‘AI’) need all the teraflop, eh? =)
Turn off that second, superfluous CPU then? Regular sensor data upload is so much more questionable and compute intensive?
How much multiprocessor computer power would YOU want if you were trying to monitor multiple camera and other sensor feeds, infer dynamic road conditions, trajectories and types of other moving, obstacles, weather, lighting…
The records show that Tesla has been using Nvidia ARM multicore + GPUs DRIVE embedded systems in their cars:
https://electrek.co/2017/01/20/first-picture-of-teslas-new-nvidia-onboard-supercomputer-for-autopilot-installed-in-a-car/
The PX2 systems are now far surpassed by current Nvidia Drive AGX architectures, centered on Tegra multi-core ARM 64 processors integrated with Nvidia Volta GPUs + Tensor Processors, systems on modules (SOMs). (Surprisingly, the Nvidia Dev site still shows availability of PX2 SDK Developer program).
The Developer Programs are pretty accessible, with the known hardware and software documented.
https://developer.nvidia.com/drive
https://docs.nvidia.com/drive/index.html
With their multi-tera-OPS computation power, the DRIVE core Jetson SOM systems have become extremely popular for embedded AI development beyond autonomous vehicles development and robotics applications. The Jetson Xavier AGX SOMS (2 or more in DRIVE AGX systems) have proven very useful in health sciences dev (medical imaging, diagnosis, intelligent monitoring), genetics research, and data sciences.
Even though a biomedical developer before Musk & Telsa blew off Nvidia systems for ‘their own chip‘ (2017), it seemed like Telsa’s loss was our gain, with all these low (mobile) power embeddable supercomputers suddenly available. One recent academic team developed machine vision applications for assessing COVID-related lung damage from chest CT imaging. Core neural nets for object identification from driver view cameras also turn out to be a useful starting point for colonoscopy imaging analysis (with software examples available to developers)
I expect that before too many casualties start mounting from errant self-driving software, we’ll have better medical imaging analysis systems and 3D reconstruction surgical planning to help with all the accidents to be blamed on reckless AIs.
Seriously, why Cringe on about (driving) data being used to develop new algorithms etc in our tech capitalist age, with pervasive mobile and cloud data gathering on most of our wired tech? Yes, the safety and legal concerns about self-driving vehicles have yet to be fully addressed, political and economical pressures to race ahead not withstanding. And yes, research on AI-using medical instrumentation has its own sets of serious ethical, legal, and personal concerns to resolve before approval of clinical use.
Now this is, truthfully, kind of an interesting tangent.
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I am, myself, just entering that phase of life where night-vision (and, thus, night-driving) is just a bit less comfortable than day-vision (and daytime-driving). It’s not “a problem,” just yet, but I can clearly notice a difference between conditions, and, to be blunt, my confidence level dips by a fraction. There are conceivable cases where, like a senior citizen, I might make an internal risk assessment and decide “Ehh, night-time plus moonless plus traffic plus hard windshield-obscuring rain = I think I’d rather have the algorithm drive me home tonight.” This doesn’t seem so far-fetched to me.
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BUT NOW. Perhaps I’m in a condition, like icy roads or wine-tasting in Napa or similar, where I legitimately believe risk of accident to be 20x or 30x normal. Maybe, then, I cede control to the algorithm, not because I trust the algorithm any more than my own capabilities, but SO THAT, IF/WHEN MY CAR CRASHES, I CAN BLAME THE AUTONOMOUS DRIVER (assuming that, by so doing, I will reap some advantage, perhaps a lessened insurance surcharge or risk of civil lawsuit).
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What the #&!! do we do with that? Bake heightened-legal costs into autonomous car prices? Pass new blurry laws for fully-human-vs-fully-algo-vs-switching-back-and-forth circumstances? Mandate black-box event recorder data pulls to establish long-term behavioral patterns? I boggle.
Re: “…just entering that phase of life where night-vision (and, thus, night-driving) is just a bit less comfortable than day-vision…”. That’s true at all phases of life. Before giving up night driving, I’d get a complete eye exam. Many types of eye problems are fixable.
Posts on Slashdot calling Cringely a “has been” peddling “clickbait” are getting +5.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/09/20/1810218/are-teslas-data-gathering-cars-secretly-improving-autopilots-algorithms
Sigh, we won’t have autonomous vehicles as soon as people think. Sure, the convoy on the highway is going to happen; just as long as there isn’t a blizzard. Look, computers can’t reasonable navigate ordinary language yet, despite years of effort, real world driving is much much worse. All this talk is just more tech-hype, promising the end result, without considering the time it takes to evolve the solution. Even electric vehicles are far from having the infrastructure to support a quick adoption. Sadly, our corporations are too inept to provide society with effective solutions, they’re preoccupied with concentrating the world’s wealth. In truth Tesla can’t even build a basic and sustainable electric vehicle for the developing world, something that is really required. Henry Ford understood where the real market was and that was a century ago; so much for progress. The world deserves better!
I wish Bob responded to this:
https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17226264&cid=60524916
“Tesla’s autonomous driving software could be ready right now for all we know.”
This shows how stupid Cringely is. Anybody who’s ever worked in software knows you don’t wait to release anything. That just gives your competitors time to catch up. And, why would you wait instead of collecting revenue now?
This moron has no business background and no software background.
20+ years ago now I wrote a 2nd year thesis at university on autonomous vehicles and the purely technical challenges and obstacles they’d have to overcome.
Looking around now and seeing recent presentations on how they work in the “real world” and such like, it doesn’t seem to me that they have come very far at all in the last 20 years. Yes, they can crunch much more data at a much faster rate, but the interpretation and implementation of the results of said data are still very much in the “dumb” category.
I can’t see autonomous cars being a reality without something being embedded into the infrastructure they’ll have to travel on to help guide them, and some ability for them to communicate with each other.
This requires standards to be agreed between the competing factions, or one parties standards and software to adopted by everyone at the vehicle level, and government support and possibly funding at the infrastructure level. I’m not counting on driving a fully autonomous vehicle during the rest of my lifetime, but I’d love to be proved wrong.
There’s one, very big difference between video compression and self-driving cars.
If the video compression has a problem, you have some compression artifacts or messed-up video. Annoying, but not potentially lethal.
If the self-driving car algo has a problem, it IS potentially lethal.
And that “potentially lethal” part is what puts this in a very different category.
I would agree that Tesla is ahead of everyone else, for reasons that Bob mentions.
I also remember seeing a TED Talk, a couple years ago, about someone with Google’s self-driving car program, talking about oddball stuff they encountered In Real Life. Such as someone in a powerchair, riding in circles in the street, chasing a duck.
Seriously. Go find the video. It’s pretty stinkin’ funny.
You’re right; you can’t make this stuff up. You gotta get out there and live it. And Google was doing so, not just depending on computer simulations, years ago. They aren’t racking up as many miles on that as Tesla but … don’t discount them quite so easily.
The problem with complex algorithms is that they tend to progress to a point, then it’s diminishing returns. The performance asymptotically approaches some point but never quite gets there. Many people have already decided that it’s “good enough,” as they have video of Teslas barreling down the highway where the “driver” is clearly asleep. At least one intoxicated Tesla owner has tried to make the case that the car was driving, not them, so they shouldn’t be given a DUI.
And, every so often, we get treated to video of a Tesla, on Autopilot, barreling into some stationary thing.
Which means they’re asymptotically approaching “good enough” but still not quite there.
I have my doubts that, so long as the majority of vehicles on the road are piloted by somewhat-unpredictable meatbags, self-driving cars will ever do better than “approach” good enough.
The thing about “potentially fatal” problems with self-driving cars is the huge number of fatal (no scare quotes needed) accidents by human drivers.
By as existing evidence (which gets renewed every 3 months) Tesla’s Autopilot is currently over 10 times safer that a car with human driving only: Tesla on Autopilot– one accident on every 4.5 million miles, vs all US cars 400 thousand miles between accidents.
If we can go from 10 to 20 to 50 to 100 times better than humans, think of how many of the current 30,000 deaths from car accidents in the US will be saved.
Yes, “Full Self Driving by the end of the year, Robo-Taxis, next year” is always hype. But excellent incremental improvements and thousands of lives saved is not.
I don’t have a dog in this fight — I guess I’m pro-Tesla, while concurrently believing that true driverless-ness is still years off — but let’s also acknowledge that a highway (predominantly) filled with ‘self-driving’ algorithmic vehicles may well look (and react) different(ly) than a mixed-mode interregnum commingling ‘human drivers’ and ‘algo drivers.’
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Dedicated human-only/bot-only lane separations are not inconceivable, a la Washington DC carpool/hybrid-preferential Highway 66 and such, though they’d need to be dynamic (upscaled, downscaled, broadened, re-classified, etc.).
I don’t know why a logic deduction was needed here. Elon Musk as much as said it all more than a year ago… Well, he’s predicted dates were off…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE&t=12188s
The autonomous vehicle industry has just passed over the Peak of Inflated Expectations and is now descending into the Trough of Disillusionment. The current crop of AI technologies is just not going to cut the mustard in large-scale real world applications. They can perform various parlor tricks, but are still light years away from something you would entrust with your personal safety. (see https://jalopnik.com/this-clip-of-a-tesla-model-3-failing-an-automatic-emerg-1845129387) Their inscrutable black-box nature of decision-making will never be acceptable to the courts or regulators in a commercial product.
It is mistake driven by ego and desire to be viewed as a technology company that Tesla is attempting to push both electric vehicle and autonomous vehicle technology simultaneously. A disruptor has the best chance of success by laser focus on a single area. The two-prong strategy leaves Tesla vulnerable to both upstarts and established players.
Traditionally, the most dangerous part of an automobile has been the nut behind the wheel. In the future, it may turn out to be a software designer. When the autonomous driving cars are all made out of bouncy rubber, I’ll consider the idea. Until then, I’m quite happy with public transport. The trick is getting to the public transport points of entry without being run over by all the nuts on the road in their damn cars — which happens more frequently than you can possibly imagine. Last week on a two-mile trip to the post office and back I was almost run over three times. I may not live long enough to vote this year.
Simple question… by what mechanism will the police pull over an autonomous vehicle?
There are valid reasons to have this ability besides traffic infractions, and it will be demanded
by law enforcement agencies and politicians. How will unauthorized use of this mechanism
be prevented?
So many people focus only on the technical issues of self-driving cars. But driving a car
is more than a technical exercise — it is also a social act. (Next time you’re out for a drive,
notice how many times you make a judgement about the intentions of other drivers,
pedestrians, etc.) There are social issues and problems with autonomous vehicles that
people haven’t even begin to thnk about, let alone solve — like my question above.
@Anon Y. Mouse
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There are lots of people asking the important questions about robocars and social implications. I’ve read some articles and position statements and research on exactly these things. It’s just drowned out by the loudest voices (Musk) and lazy “journalists” (scare quotes intended) whose mental horizons are limited by their writing to clickbait headlines (Cringely).
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In the long term I think anyone who thinks they are going to create a monopoly of robocars and own the market is daydreaming. That simply is not going to happen. Given the climate change and social welfare issues I pretty much think anyone pulling that is going to get their fingers not just burned but snapped off. For anyone complaining the choice will be simple and stark: have a percentage of the market or none of the market. Anyone trying to blackmail will simply see their products banned from import and a push towards public transport and reconfiguring the work ecosystem. The pandemic has highlighted similar questions about monopolies and policy mechanisms on the ground. If it becomes an issue of saving the planet or a company losing patent protection the decision makes itself.
How has your last Tesla prediction worked out?
https://www.cringely.com/2017/06/05/the-robots-are-coming/
At some point Bob was great/the best technology writer and unfortunately he became just not so good science fiction writer (artificial intelligence is right here, drone pizza deliveries, self driving cars, apple as hedge fund, walmart as bank etc. etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqywRziE7pk&feature=youtu.be
As Lenny said (below): “Ronc’s video is about Tesla’s new battery design. Interesting stuff.”
Lazy men who message me asking “Hi babe. u working?” are an autoblock. I have the same attitude to blind links without comment. If you can’t be bothered to supply some content which indicates what it is and your entent then I cannot be bothered to click. (Likewise if you message me with a page full of your demands and fantasies you’ll get nowhere instead of the more acceptable general introduction to yourself with an indication of your likes and dislikes after having read my escort profile.)
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I find some of my clients are comfortably chatty. A lot of clients take time to settle down and open up. It’s rare but I have had clients who clam up completely or are simply seeing me for a function in which case I never see them again or occasionally they are simply asked to leave.
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My ice breaker is asking men what they do with their life. It’s so framing to ask men what they do for work which is why I always find a moment to explain they are more than their work but hopes, dreams, feelings and a (hopefull) complete human being. It also deftly avoids the issue of what their exact job may be and finances which some men may be averse to sharing. My clients have ranged from black-ops mercenaries and special forces to financiers and marketers and accidental and deliberate millionaires to pizza parlour employees, engineers, retirees, tradesmen, and various levels of office drone and disabled unemployed. I find most respond quite well and you see more of the person they have to offer. I find the ones which open up tend to be the ones I like the most. I feel my happiest around them and they are the most likely to get the Fast-track VIP five star treatment when booking or just an easier more enjoyable time. Sometimes I let the clock run. Yes, it’s still transactional but in my head I trade experience off against money so the books square up. Occassionally I have let the clock run because I felt I needed to meet a value proposition but this always turns out to be a mistake as the basic compatibility wasn’t there. One of the worst examples was seeing an arms trader with a penchant for far eastern escorts because he liked classy and demure and he got me in the mood for being a milf with a mind of her own. Narcissists are the worst and he called me “friction” ???!?! On the other hand I had a client who I strongly suspected worked for an international private military contractor or similar type of company and when I removed my clothes and folded my skirt and (deliberately) bent over to put it down he had a spontaneous event. I think it was the way my shear knickers stretched over my ass as I bent over which did it. A few clients have remarked how they like this while others like boobs or other aspects of performance. There was also this cute and extremely fit carpenter who couldn’t contain himself but we’re getting into TMI.
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Cringely really is missing a lot of tricks. He had the potential but squandered it. His old act doesn’t work any more and then there is the unresolved Mineserver scandal.
You don’t click on links without context, I don’t take seriously a sea of text that after 2 paragraphs in just seems self-serving and not really relevant.
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You could completely cut your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs and, in my opinion, achieve greater success in sparking a dialogue. Though you rarely seem interested in “dialogue” and are instead more interested in “talking at” the rest of us.
@George I agree. @Ronc said too little, @trashtalk said too much. Maybe we can all meet somewhere in the middle. BTW, @Ronc’s video is about Tesla’s new battery design. Interesting stuff.
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@George
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Nice rant, George, but if you parked the mouth you might learn something. In any case my view is if you don’t like it perhaps you’re excluding yourself from the intended audience? While I was dozing in bed wondering what the responses may be I came up with the reply “I had to put up with reading walls and walls and walls of men having fireside chats about IBM and the “good old days” so thought it was my turn.
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There are things I need to do before seeing a client much like a pre-flight checklist. Most of it is fairly obvious and everyday but some of it is very much TMI. The one thing I am thinking about is the one thing I cannot ever recall seeing in a single movie about escorts. (Yes, movies about escorts are a bit popular at the moment maybe because I have been yacking about them?) I have loads of other escorts tips and tricks but trade secret. One thing though which has always puzzled me is whenever I wear expensive stockings I never get much of a reaction. Men always seem to like the cheap stockings I buy. I’m trying to work out if it’s becausemen aren’t used to seeing expensive stockings so don’t miss them or by the time they get this far their brains are swimming in a puddle and I could be wearing a hessian sack and it wouldn’t matter.
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If you unpick all that it’s a critique of sorts of Cringelys formula.
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@Lenny
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Ooh batteries… More seriously do we have to keep chasing the marketing points of a billionaire like Pavlovian dogs? There are lots and lots of things in the world which are interesting not just because they’re interesting but the extra texture. What about the art? Where’s the humanity? When you have[TMI] as much as I have it’s the little things and the person that matters. The poetry of life. Yes, I do like technology. It’s fascinating but I like chicken too and wouldn’t want to eat chicken every day. Now do you know the difference between salted and unsalted butter in food? Do you know why we have salt in butter? Do you know which everyday brand is the best quality salted butter for an authentic taste? What are potato ricers and garlic ricers and why are they used? (Clue: For the exact opposite reasons.) What is the connection between quantum physics, 1930s German night life, and VLSI chips? (I’ll admit this is so deliberately obscure you’ll never get it.) Without science and culture and effort plus a lot of good luck the world we know would not exist. Without curiosity and multi domain knowledge and diversity IT as we know it would not exist. It naturally follows broadening the mind is a good thing.
@trashtalk “I had to put up with reading walls and walls and walls of men having fireside chats about IBM and the “good old days” so thought it was my turn.”
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Meanwhile I’ve been teaching my child that when another hits you/does something you don’t like, you don’t respond in kind, and chose to lead by example. I’d like to think a world that aimed towards this view would be bit better off.
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“There are lots and lots of things in the world which are interesting not just because they’re interesting but the extra texture. What about the art? Where’s the humanity? ”
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@Ronc posted a video about Tesla batteries, to be used in Tesla vehicles, in a Tesla post by Bob. VERY relevant to the conversation.
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It looks to me that you’re lashing out just because people post in ways you don’t like, or respond to you in any disagreeable way. I’m not sure why you only operate between two extremes and can’t find middle ground with people. It’s a recurring theme that people have mentioned in other posts as well, so I know I’m not alone in this view.
“What is the connection between quantum physics, 1930s German night life, and VLSI chips?”
Hedy Lamar?”
Yeah I know she was Austrian and not sure if her spread-spectrum invention had any relation to quantum physics, but am just throwing sh!t out there to keep the conversation lively….not unlike alot of other posters here.
@Wild-Ass Guess
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Hedy Lamar is a very good guess but no.Fair play though. I’m being very indirect and you have to know the right history and contexts and exact person at the right place but to give you a clue I’m thinking of another woman who worked for a few years at IBM. Back to the present day and on a tangent Sabine Hossenfelder is also having a good rant on youtube about the abuse of science. She really knows her stuff and she is funny too. “Science does not say, “You shouldn’t pee on high-voltage lines”, it says, “Urine is an excellent conductor”.” She has also written a book: Lost in Math: How Beauty Leads Physics Astray”. OMG she has a blog too and we share a fault. She can’t keep her mouth shut either. lol
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Speaking the other day of squandering (Hi Andy!) the Guardian has an interesting article on the Government Digital Service once leading the world. After the mandarins and penny pinchers poked their nose in this lead has crumbled to seventh place. They also have a fascinating article also published today calling out Silicon Valley disruption as a con. The Guardian also has a column today on what to do to help you stay healthy and creative while working from home. Yes, during a pandemic many escort clients may rediscover they have a wife. Sorry about the Guardian overkill. I stopped reading the billionaire owned right wing press.
> Autonomous cars are like the graphical user interface
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Geez this is like self-parody.
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Let’s start a new genre: Cringely stories covered by someone other than Cringely. First up: George Hotz and the $999 autonomous driving system.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnh5TQ60hek
Excellent link – thanks
I think anyone who writes about self driving cars should mention openpilot and comma
@granville
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That was a good video. I agree with 90% if it but it needs a lot of unpacking and some rewriting to fold in some additional perspectives which are lost. I still think it’s too US-centric and anti-regulator and doesn’t put enough emphasis on explaining the social aspect and social and psychological perception systems. Other than this I think calling out the bullshit and con artists and deeply exploitative and flawed economic models is spot on. I can’t comment onthe US but I know in the UK and EU a huge amount of expertise has been throwning to road and sign design and there’s mountains of academic papers on the main public policy points.You would miss this though because its been drowned out by the bullshitters.
@True Rock + @trashtalk:
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Hell, beyond openpilot and comma, Bob doesn’t even mention NIKOLA! It’s literally one of the top business stories this week and people with a lot of experience in the Valley are predicting this may come to a Theranos-type conclusion. Kind of important in the scope of electronic vehicles, isn’t it?
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But beyond the merits of comma, I thought it was a classic Cringely story: eccentric guy with a habit of upsetting people, makes fun of the self-important and crassly self-serving in his own industry. And far from raising billions before he has a product (and starting to cash out before he has one, like the founder of Nikola) he was literally 3D printing shit in the company garage. That’s Silicon Valley old school.
@Lenny
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You’re entitled to your worldview and wounded feelings. You do you, as they say. Ideals are nice but sometimes reality intervenes and I think you know this.
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Pester power doesn’t work at all with me. I’ve had a lot of clients approach me this week asking politely in lots of indirect ways whether I am available and sadly the answer remains no as long as the current pandemic situation remains. You question my leading by example and I am and have been since before official lockdown. I’m putting my money where my mouth is and following best practice with respect to hygiene, wearing a mask, and other preventative measures like distancing which also takes into account ventilation, crowds, and airborne particle travel distance which can vary anything up to a dozen feet or linger for up to three hours. This hasn’t just cost me inconvenience and effort but has also cost me a substantial amount in lost income while I could very easily have carried on working. In the meantime I have to put up with random men and women barging their ego into my world or bandwaggoning covidiocy. I suppose you would call my objecting to low standards an extreme? It’s only an extreme if your starting point is some distance from optimal.
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Moving on the Guardian carries an article today saying legal action has been launched against the men only Garrick Club as a breach of equality legislation. While the court may find this to be true the whole subject area is a really nuanced discussion which I doubt any parties to the court action throughly understand but is part of the ongoing dialogue of society. It’s noteworthy that my local Rugby club is also men only but board members and players are happy to use my services. I personally think their worldview misses out on a lot which would benefit them. I don’t just offer hanky panky but a social and in some ways therapeutic environment where men can relax and discuss things they may not otherwise do with their friends or wives. It’s an escape in some ways from a fortress mentality alongside easy on the eyes company.
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Studies prove the kinds of services I odfer not only help increase mens mental health but confidence and performance in work. I’m also good value compared with a therapist and provide soft furnishings and less paperwork. No it’s not a substitute for medical interventions or relationship counselling or a workplace training certificate but that’s not the market I service.
@granville
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Thanks or the heads up on Nikola. I kind of remember it now but only after doing a search and reading an FT article on it published yesterday. Your pointing out the comparison with Theranos is an apt one. For completeness I know the vision thing and system integration and and prototype versus finished goods versus vaporware, and vertical integration versus ecosystem issues as much as anyone before we get started on monopoly law and financiers and employment issues. I’m sure many of you do and informed discussion really helps having this kind of background view.
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All of these fundamental skills may apply in my own current industry but it takes a lot of explaining to understand what a Geisha in Kyoto, Japan and the youtubes I watched of a short, fat, and bald commercial and house painter in California have in common. Thankfully not a lot in practical terms but there is something to be said for sticking to your guns and aesthetics and price points, and setting a lead in your market to provide high quality at affordable prices.
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I’m not convinced about hydrogen being viable within a five year time frame. Electric battery driven vehicles are available now and if needed nuclear can roll out within five years to expand electric capacity. Climate change puts us on a clock and we cannot affort to mess up or dither. If the questions over hydrogen can be answered and realworld and safe product shipped then fine but I do agree we have to be on high alert for bullshitters.
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As for Cringely blog we can all get better researched and more authoritative and more timely news elsewhere. In fact so much it’s difficult to keep up with a fraction of the stories. In some respects my own industry isn’t much different. This is why I stick to what I like and feel comfortable with. I could make more money by expanding the number of clients I see but I would have to lower standards or do more things I don’t like or accept clients I would prefer not to share my time with. I’ve learned as I’ve gone along and have to adapt. It’s been really difficult at times and I’ve made mistakes. How we adapt and reform can be a bit traumatic at times. Things have changed and people simply can’t get away with what they used to.
@Jerry Kew
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I missed your comment and only found it because I was bored and scanned the whole thread from the top. I don’t do threaded only flatfile responses. Threaded doesn’t work for a lot for reasons.
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By “friend” how do you define “friend”? You are dodging the question about whether you are an acquintance, friend, close friend, or intimate friend; or have met in real life or are only an email contact; or how long and to what depth and quality of “friend”. Also if Cringely is a friend I’m puzzled how he could mistake Cornwall for Devon. Personally I wouldn’t be terribly flattered if Cringely asked for my opinion but I’m sure you have your reasons.
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I have a number of clients in Devon and some in Cornwall too.
I wrote the subjoined five years ago. I stand by it.
>>>>>>>>
Inquiring minds want to know:
How much readily-extractable lithium is there in the crust of the Earth?
By whom are the source materials controlled?
What is the energy budget of lithium extraction (which is done by electrolysis of fused salts) versus the capacity and lifetime number of cycles of the resulting batteries?
What is the service life of a lithium-ion battery assuming one full charge/discharge cycle every 24 hours?
What is the marginal cost of service life due to improved manufacturing standards above baseline minimally acceptable?
What is the cost of recycling lithium from failed batteries?
How much lithium has already been placed beyond use by non-recycling of consumer-grade LiIon batteries?
And most importantly:
How much money does Elon Musk stand to gain by a suitably-hyped IPO of a hundred-million-batteries company, whose success (that of the company as well as that of the IPO) depends entirely upon the opacity of the answers to the above questions?
<<<<<<<<
And here is the other shoe dropping. Nikola founder facing criminal complaints of molesting underage girls:
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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/29/two-women-file-sexual-abuse-complaints-against-nikola-founder-trevor-milton.html
@granville
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Those are serious allegations. For the record the legal environment between the US and UK is different so how discussion of the subect is managed is very different. I have myself witnessed abuse or suspected sexual and financial abuse in the past and the individuals concerned were prosecuted.
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Another problem is basic abuses of power or pen pushers using technicalities to defraud people which is more of a chronic problem but devastating in its own way. As for the sex industry and minimum wage jobs I feel there are problems here too with systemic issues placing many women and men too in situations they would not chose to be in and often no practical way out. There is a line between decent and consenting, and horrible and unconsenting which I don’t feel is properly addressed in the majority of public policy discussion. The pandemic has made all of this worse for some people such as in poor parts of India sex workers having to choose between work and starving, or in the West people in the meat processing industry who have few employment options suffering from less than ideal working conditions.
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If I can be political I feel the ideologies and tone of current government in the UK and US unhelpful and generally abusive. The Chicago school and hangers on have done a lot to unwind the postwar settlement and havedone a lot of damage. For me the choice is clear. Disaster capitalists and alt-right psychos and thugs of all shades need to be got rid of.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chicago-school-of-economics
Airbus recently announced three concept planes running on hydrogen. The third concept aircraft which Airbus has a working prototype model for aerodynamic testing is a unibody aircraft.This looks really futuristic. They are obviously eploring the possibilities and working with industry to see if a usable and economic hydrogen infrastucture can be developed. Airbus also has electric powered aircraft projects. One of the active research projects is developing an electric powered jet engine with Rolls Royce. While a speculative technology success will mean Airbus is able to power an aircraft as and when battery technology or some form of electric power unit using alternative fuels becomes realistic.
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https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html
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https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/electric-flight.html
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/09/29/2058240/how-uber-wasted-25-billion-on-self-driving-cars
There is a tremendous amount of bullshit in this sphere, even by 2020 market standards. Companies buoyed by stock valuations are using these returns to “get into this space” to justify an even greater stock valuation. Interest rates have been so low for so long that the people who can move billions of dollars are okay with this since it will give them a higher return than the bank. It’s not going to cause a depression or anything but this general frothiness is perfect for con men and their white collar enablers. Unfortunately the more I learn, the more I see this repeated in other sectors of the economy, too.
Speaking of bullshit I noticed Slashdot carrying a topic about US politicians expressing a desire (ooh er) for remaking monopoly laws. This is a significant step to accepting the current model has a lot of flaws. Whether this desire for changeis driven by the realisation the US is canabilising its own economy or pressure from the EU its hard to say. I will confess I didn’t see this happening so loudly so soon but suspected it would be an issue that would have to be dealt with whether the US liked it or not. On this issue the EU has led the way and to some extent the same is true of privacy law and taxation which is currently causing no end of trouble for the monopolies. The pandemic has also shown up the US healthcare and welfare models in contrast to the more social democratic systems of the EU. Another improvement noted on Slashdot is Facebook is banning Qanon from its platform. Whether Qanon is a cynical rightwing astroturf scheme or the product of misplaced irony and the easily led is arguable but personally I view Qanon and the Alt-Right infestation of social media as a form of terrorism.
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Closer to home in the UK the position of the powerful and wealthy and billionaire owned media and the damage they have done not just to the fabric of society but econony too is being unpeeled. The mechanisms of control and advanced marketing techniques is being examined. I believe this is long overdue especially given the kind of selfish authoritarian “I’m Alright Jack” mentality and thread of casual cruelty which has become the default in too many quarters.
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I’ve been blogging quite a bit myself lately. It’s nothing special but I noticed other escorts riffing off it. What they wrote is very different and really quite good for what it is. I enjoyed reading them for the variety if nothing else. A surprising amount is more observational and lifestyle orientated than many would suspect if they haven’t read escorts blogs before.
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News just in: The post-Brexit Tory government has agreed not to rip up the Human Rights Act. The EU stated that the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) is a red line. The EU is also examing whether the UK will continue to be compatible with the GDPR. Not that I’m blogging about this. Escorts and politics aren’t the best of mixes.
Where’s the scoop on IBM?
https://www.reuters.com/article/ibm-divestiture-idUSKBN26T1V1
I was being facetious.
Or, perhaps, you’re irony-impaired.
Irony! Its good for the blood.
Besides, Ars Technica and The Register are more fun.
Facetious or not, it points out how desperate we all are to have Cringely post something, anything, so we can continue to participate. The link I posted indicates that Cringely’s numerous reports of IBM’s death were greatly exaggerated. Perhaps his next article will be about the resurrection of IBM. 🙂
He’s probably working as a greeter over to the Walmart.
Here Here Love You Ron Cheers Howard
Hey, it’s not 100% impossible. But it’s super-duper unlikely. Lots of people working on self-driving cars have Teslas. I have one. They are great cars. The autopilot is very good as a driver assist tool. But for the above to be true, Tesla would have to have long ago figured out how to make Autopilot vastly, vastly, vastly, vastly better than it is, and is deliberately holding back on applying it, instead just putting in minor tweaks and upgrades from time to time all in a big fake-out to keep everybody else distracted.
It seems pretty unlikely.
Cringely missed the story on Cornwall and the UKs space programme which appeared on Slashdot. The UK actually has a deep history when it comes to rockets as well as supersonic planes and the car industry and jet engines and computing. Just because the Tories are a gang of chancers propped up by spivs in the City and Cringely Nerds 2.0 was a piss take doesn’t mean it isn’t so. In facta huge amount of UK technology was way way ahead of the rest of the world including the US at the time of WWII. There was a massive technology transfer from the UK to the US including the “crown jewels” to pay for lend-lease and without the UK the NSAsimply would not exist. There’s the Black Arrow rocket, ahead of their time planes like TSR-2, the Vulcan bomber which nuked the US twice during exercises, and go knows what else. Arianne is based in large part on British rocket technology. The UK continues to manufacture some of the most advanced civil and military satellites in the world and plays a huge role in both European and NASA space programmes.
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There is nothing in the science which says the UK can’t launch from its own territory. I forget the exact number (I think it’s 5%) but a rocket engineer could confirm the extra fuel load and access to various orbit patterns. Others can comment on flight paths and safety over land.
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France has developed new battery technology which takes a huge step forward as well as the EU voting for a 60% carbon emissions cut by 2050. These wereon Slashdot too and guess what? No Cringely in sight.
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Shoehorning Cringely into the IBM topic is pure backstratching. Someone in Slashdot is really really keen to get Cringelys bullshitting back on to the front page. I smell agenda.
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I’m a hooker and I know this stuff and yes I do read academic papers. Some of my clients are university professors, mechanical and electronic engineers, and a few other things I won’t mention. Not that this matters in the scheme of things but clueless head in sand dummy I am not.
@Gnarfle
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The Atlantic has an article on Americas weakness for grifters. Mind you we have enough spivs in the UK. The Tories have positively institutionalised it. If stupid people bore me I certainly dislike liars. As time goes by I would certainly like to hear less of America online and in the news. From where I am sitting it’s a big bullshitting aggressive money sucking machine. Any system based on gatekeeping and ripping people off always heads for decline. Always.
“real life isn’t a simulation”
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I thought the jury was still out on that.
It is. Anyone who says otherwise is blinded by their own ego.
> there is no god
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> there is instead a big computer
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> made by… other computers
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> who are running this simulation for… reasons
Re: “I thought the jury was still out on that”. There’s no need for a jury, since it’s a matter of definition, not theory. One could argue that it’s also a matter of point of view. Our universe could be a simulation created by another universe to try things out. To them, we’re a simulation, but to us, it’s real life.
So, like the “ding an sich” issue – we cannot know, and it does not matter?
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Didn’t keep the pros from getting a lot of mileage out of that one …
Am I the only one who read about the limited beta? C’mon guys. Wake up!
Bob,
I’d like to hear your current thoughts on what IBM did, and where you think it will lead.
Please write an article on it, if you have anything to say on it.
Waymo has launched a driverless taxi service in Phoenix.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/waymo-finally-launches-an-actual-public-driverless-taxi-service/
It was mentioned several days ago on the Forum-that-must-not-be-named. As I noted there, the ‘driverless’ cars have remote human operators monitoring them.
Also, it was major exercise for Waymo to set up this one tiny, easy-driving area. It took them 3 years.
This post was dated December 2018: “Waymo has officially launched its commercial self-driving vehicle service called “Waymo One” in the Metro Phoenix area which includes Chandler, Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert. Initially the service will be available to former testers called “early riders” who will use an app to call the self-driving vehicles 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. At the start of the program, Waymo-trained drivers will ride along to supervise the customer experience. Some early riders are testing fully driverless rides on the service. Up to three adults and a child can fit into the vehicles. Riders will see price estimates before they accept the trip based on factors like the time and distance to their destination. Eventually the general public will be able to experience the autonomous vehicle service as Waymo One rolls out to more areas and adds more vehicles.” https://hardforum.com/threads/the-waymo-one-commercial-self-driving-vehicle-service-has-officially-launched.1973052/
Driverless cars are an invitation for naughty business on the go. There is one small problem though. In the UK and other jurisidctions it is a criminal offence to record such goings on without consent. It is extremely unlikely the law will allow any form of duress in contracts and certainly not signing away your legal rights. This may put somewhat of a question mark over passenger monitoring software. There are also human rights including privacy caveats.
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I have been in taxis with clients before and things are generally well behaved especially with a driver present. I imagine things may be a lot different if there is no driver present. I wonder if the peeping Tom software developers have thought of this.
“naughty business on the go. … it is a criminal offence to record such goings on without consent”
It seems fairly straightforward for the customer to sign a T&C in order to use the service and that it would include a clause to the effect of “all activity in the vehicle will be monitored and recorded for customer service training purposes.”
>It seems fairly straightforward for the customer to sign a T&C in order to
>use the service and that it would include a clause to the effect of “all
>activity in the vehicle will be monitored and recorded for customer service
>training purposes.”
If they don’t want their robo-taxis used as “party cars” or subject to other
abuse, they’ll have to be monitored anyway. In any event, users will have
to consent to being recorded “for customer safety.”
All this talk of Tesla and Waymo and so on seems rather silly to me. We all know that Crookely is secretly working on repurposing the Mineservers to control driverless cars.
:) Mineserver controllers for driverless cars will be shipping in the next few weeks.
I thought he was manufacturing driverless Mineservers. Creeping featurism?
@Roger
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The law in other jurisdictions is different as per comment. I know men like to woosh past womens opinions but I’m quite sure I know what I’m talking about.
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For the curious I’ve opened for business again.Yes I know we’re in the middle of a pandemic but I have reasons. Trade has dropped off a cliff for eeryone and after looking into the conditions under which the pandemic spreads and clustering I feel that I’m experienced enough now to tell the VIP clients from the careless. In fact 90% of clients I wouldn’t want to see pretty much select themselves out for one reason or another even before the vetting and background check stage. I haven’t done a formal risk analysis but reckon the risk of an event is 1% or less. The majority of my clients are retired or married. I avoid younger single clients because they are a headache. The retired are locked up in their support bubbles and the married wouldn’t dare step out of line with routine safety unless they want a quick divorce. For now the way forward is going upmarket while keeping my rates the same. Longer higher quality bookings much less often. No riff raff, obviously. Live-in squeeze is obviously available for the independently wealthy. POA, of course.
“…it is a criminal offence to record such goings on without consent”
I didn’t disagree with you; I just noted that it is a simple matter of obtaining consent. Unless the intended use is for something illegal (e.g., you can’t advertise “rent an unmanned murder-car to do your business!”) there is nothing illegal about requiring consent to monitor as a condition of use.
As for women’s opinions, I have no idea what your gender is, nor do I care. Sometimes you have good things to say and sometimes not. Sometimes you make egregious grammatical or spelling errors that irk me and sometimes not.
A little story… back in the early days of the internet and its precursors, a bunch of friends I’d met online and I decided to meet up in person. This was back in the ’80s. I arrived a little after the rest of the group and spotted them sitting together (it was obvious who they were). I walked over and one of them went around the table introducing people I was excited to see IRL for the first time. Lastly, she pointed to someone and said “and this is Amy.” Amy had long, flowing black hair… and an impressive mustache. “Amy” was actually Robert and had been doing an experiment to see if he could make us think his alter-ego was in fact female. He had us all fooled. (He was really super smart.)
So I have loads of experience of understanding that either online or in person, one shouldn’t make assumptions about gender and of not really caring what someone’s gender is.
Hey, Bob … care to comment on this?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nishandegnarain/2020/10/18/japan-to-release-radioactive-fukishima-water-into-ocean/amp/
@Roger
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Stop thinking like a lazy American all the time. Consent cannot be attached to a condition like that. I know plenty of people try it on with inertia selling and whatnot but this has no force in law either. GDPR actually makes a huge noise over this.
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If functionality can be limited so the law is observed so consent and privacy are respected that’s another discussion. I’m glad someone finally spotted it so this line of discussionc an be teased out. Personally I’m leaving this to the people building the technology and lawyers to sort out. If you’re selling into the UK and/or EU then leaving it to the courts to sort out this doesn’t wash. Those things really need to be sorted out before a product is shipped. We all know what can be done with so-called anonymised data or data which which has been abstracted. We also know more than one company has gone “Oh, whoopsie” when caught.
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It’s usually privilege talking when someone says sex and gender doesn’t matter. The implied default is always assumed to be male for some reason most likely because it reinforces the power relationship and implied norms and standards of the usually male person who says this. I also don’t know what you’re trying on with your other comments. Plenty of women play online in games as men because it’s not worth the grief to use any other identity. Don’t even get me started on social media. The whole an opinion doesn’t exist until a man says it (usually an effing bluetick asshole) really got up my nose. The other problem was Z-list men who would only ever appear to disagree with something. That got boring very fast. I think I had limited viewing comments to people I followed or engaged with so saw bot much trouble atall on twitter. Doing a search which dug up everything showed a firehose of toxicity being sprrayed none stop attacking everything from my appearance to every sexistor politically obnoxious comment yuou could think of. I doubt this happens if you’re a man online. Yes that was my picture in the avatar. No I don’t want to fuck you or marry you and yes I have a higher IQ than a squirrel, thanks.
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I actually quit one well known multiplayer game because the dominant gameplay favoured men especially griefers plus I wasn’t keen on the game having a mechanism for slave trading and sex trafficking. The company behind this game also scalped my personal email address via a free Steam DLC in contravention of EU privacy laws and used it to send me marketing junk I didn’t want. That was another reason for quitting.
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No you don’t have a lot of experience at all. You have a US-centric online mucking about with your male friends experience. Life is very different when you’re on the receiving end of this shit.
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As for managing escort clients during a pandemic? God give me strength… I have some life goals I want to reach than I’m out.
Um, stop thinking like an entitled Karen. Either companies will be able to say “you agree to let us monitor what happens in our self-driving taxis” or there will be no self-driving taxis. How many trashed taxis would it take for a company to completely pull out of the European market?
You missed my point completely. Sex and gender absolutely matter (and, btw, should be self-determined) but when dealing with an online personality (such as “trashtalk”) one cannot make assumptions about that personality’s gender. Perhaps you are the high-paid British courtesan you claim to be. Perhaps you are a 14-year-old boy from Kansas who gets off on writing racy posts while pretending to be said courtesan. Maybe you’re Crookely. Maybe you’re me. None of us will ever know.
I post using my real name and link to a website I put up… or do I? Maybe I’m really Abe Froman, Sausage King of Chicago. Maybe I’m Crookely. Maybe I’m Crookely’s wife who can’t stand him but can’t afford to divorce him so instead just posts here about the Mineserver debacle. Anyone could have grabbed my info to impersonate me. I could be Devin Nunes’ Cow.
So, while you say you are female (at least that’s the impression I have; I’m not entirely sure you’ve explicitly stated that, so my apologies if you are not), I don’t know that for sure. I have no reason to doubt it, but when it comes to the internet, I don’t let gender influence me.
btw, I don’t play online games, so thanks for that stereotype.
“Life is very different when you’re on the receiving end of this shit.”
I am well aware of the issues that women face, both online and in the real world. HOWEVER, I never mentioned any of that. What I said, if you care to remember, was “It seems fairly straightforward for the customer to sign a T&C…” after which you accused me of discounting your opinion simply because you’re a woman. In actuality, what I was doing was following up on your comment that “it is a criminal offence to record such goings on without consent.” I simply noted that the taxi companies could get around that by asking for consent. You, however, didn’t like that I failed to completely agree and pulled out the victim card: “oh, I’m a woman so you don’t listen to me, you big mean man, you! And I’ve been bullied online so your thoughts and views don’t matter!” I’m sure that your experiences online (and IRL) have not always been what they should have been and I am truly sorry for that, but, really, that has no bearing on what I said.
As for signing away one’s rights…. I am fairly certain that films and TV shows are made in Europe and even the UK (as I’ve watched many of them) as are adverts. How is it that the film companies get away with recording those actors? Oh, right, they get their consent (in exchange for payment).
If *I* were running a driverless taxi company, in Europe or anywhere, riders would have to agree to a contract prior to getting in the car that would say they agree 1) not to damage the vehicle, 2) they cannot commit any crimes, and 3) there would be no hanky-panky. Further, they would have to agree to be monitored and/or recorded. If they don’t agree, well, they can take the bus or the train.
P.S., you *say* you have a higher IQ than a squirrel, but I’m pretty sure most squirrels could understand and use threaded comments and, furthermore, would actually care enough about others to do so.
@Roger
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You can leave off the framing. I also said weeks back I post flat file because threaded doesn’t work. Really it doesn’t. Nothing anyone says is important enough to waste half my life scrolling up and down. Threaded is just more bother than its worth. The legal picture is quite a bit different in the UK and EU to what you imagine. There’s also lots of caveats and ifs and buts and maybes. Lawyers are very fond of the words “reasonable” and “it depends”. As well as all this there is now a layer of Covid-19 protocols and I understand intimacy coaches are now a thing. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but there is also something called artistic rights which cannot be signed away. This is especially strong in France. The US tends to ignore artistic rights and has fewer legal safeguards generally but money talks especially when discussing Hollywood stars with a history. So while things go a different route in the US the issue of artistic merit and reputation and casting couches and so on is pertinent to discussion.
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Yes the money I receive is an entire magnitude greater than the average but then expenses. Once you take account of time and additional costs plus various investments and marketing the net figure is lower. I also, especially during a pandemic, limit my availability quite drastically. Now the signal to noise ratio does vary but I’m getting better and more experienced with filtering timewasters in all their forms. Really it’s a never ending process as timewasters have a certain chameleon quality but there are obvious tells. This mornings client was fresh off the golf course with others in his support bubble and was a very pleasant man. I told him to stay away from them for the next two weeks just in case. I rarely drink coffee and the coffee I had bought for clients had gone off (whoops) so he generously skipped the hospitality while I imbibed a cup of tea. I was really dressed for an evening lunch but was a presentable eyefull. No kissing, sadly, due to the pandemic but ooh lah lah. A good undressing and introductory feel got things off to a good start. There’s something about a pair of skimpy lace knickers hitting the floor I like. After retreating I gave him a slow and gentle semi socially distanced massage and am feeling quite mellow so less snappy than my earlier draft.
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At least one of my other clients is a member of the same golf club.
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I caught an article in the Guardian yesterday which mentions the work of Rosemary Basson. Her papers on the subject plus a lot of the surrounding work in the field seems worth reading to better understand clients needs and relationship needs. Unfortunately a lot is hidden behind paywalls but I found one good article explaining the main points of her thesis on lifeworkspsychotherapy. A snap impression is I tend to agree with her idea that engagement is a matter of approaching and cyclic not the linear waterfall style model. In fact today two things I discussed with the client really fitted in with this. Not rushing, emotional comfort, and going around rather than straight to the honeypot or being sucked in by pornographic imagery is really the way to go.
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I’ve read other essays and comment by photographers and I’m sure there are others discussing this kind of formula with their work which is very similar in principle. While writing this I had another call today at the other end of the spectrum and had to decline. On the surface it is easy money for ten minutes work and an hourly rate equivalent to a top lawyer. In practice it’s as much work as an hour and not the quality of work I like to provide plus there is the issue of pandemic safety. I’m not a street corner photobooth.
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TMI maybe but this is the real thought processes going on behind the scenes not what you will read in the media or in marketing blurb.
Re: “Nothing anyone says is important enough to waste half my life scrolling up and down. Threaded is just more bother than its worth.” Those sentences also apply to non-threaded discussions. When I first read your @Roger post of October 19th, I couldn’t figure out to which of his posts you were referring until he responded with some key words, discovering you were referring to his post of October 14th, five days prior. I do know what you mean about threaded being hard to follow sometimes, but I learned a trick from when this column (before there were any “blogs” or “bloggers”) was very active, to the tune of 50 or more posts during the first 24 hours. What I did, and still do out of habit, is to write down in Notepad the number of posts I’ve read so far for each article. The next day, I look at the new total post count for an article, and note the difference, so I know how many posts I have yet to read. Then I search for the current date phrase like “ober 20,” which immediately tells me how many new posts happened today, which may be less than the number I have yet to read, meaning the remainder must have been posted the day before (or earlier). Then I change the search term to “ober 19,” and quickly click through (not scroll through) all the posts from the day before, stopping to read the unfamiliar ones. After finishing “ober 19,” I change the search back to “ober 20,” and read all the remaining new ones. When I’m done reading and posting I change my Notepad file to reflect the new total comment count for that article. The important point is that you never have to “scroll through” comments, just “click through” “n” date searches, where, these days, n is usually 1 or 2.
It seems to me that been in a cab is like been in a hotel-room. A certain amount of privacy is expected, but also a certain amount of security. The security may be necessary for counter-terrorism purposes. It is a balance that exists today. I think “Uber” may have cameras in its vehicles for the purpose of security of both the driver, and the passenger.
I think Bob Cringely is correct about “Tesla” winning the self-driving-car-war. I do not know if it will really-matter, though. But the benefit of starting from a clean-sheet design cannot be denied. Judging from the “iPhone”, that appears to be the best-way-forward when a new-technology is introduced. The jet-engine, and the “Boeing 707” are good examples of this. The “Comet” may have been first jet-airliner, but the standard design of future jet-airliners was set by the “707”—with it jet-engines mounted under its wings in nacelles. “Tesla” has set ‘the standard’ for future automobile design. Whether it matters that much to be the standard-setter, still,remains to be seen.
@Christopher
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There is a yes and no to all the angles. In the EU and other jurisdictions covered by the European Convention of Human Rights (post Brexit this still includes the UK as well as Russia etcetera) you have to consider freedom of expression and privacy. Security is a bigger topic as is investigating and preventing crime. You have to tie up all the loose ends including implementation to ensure no cheating. There’s also the society you live in to consider and a healthier and more equal society is by and large a safer society which reduces the need for invasive measures. More guns and more cameras isn’t always the most productive path to go down. Things like social policy and mental healthcare have roles too as well as the overarchging political and legal environment which sets the tone. I mention all this simply to open up avenues for discussion as well as to question invasive measures by default which people may not consider on first look.
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I personally think the idea of winning is a mugs game. When you slide into zero sum games you’re on the path to hell. As an example a side-effect of the Comet disasters was setting the standard for air investigation. New Airbus prototypes which I mentioned some comments back are setting new standards. In some ways this builds on the earlier work of Lockheeds B bomber projects which were based in part on the Horten flying wing. The upshot really is civilisation depends on a lot of interconnections and things going around in circles.
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As for today I could have been run off my feet but this isn’t the sensible or social thing to do. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
@ronc
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When forums are flat file it’s easy. Start at the top and work down. There’s this thing called comprehension and having a memory and economy of movement. There’s other issues too like building narratives where one thing is built on another. Threaded only works when you have an interface designed around it which this blog doesn’t remotely support. Most hightraffic forums (aka bulletin boards) with involved discussion which suport threaded typically turn it off because it doesn’t work. Usenet supports it but even then discussions tend to follow a flat narrative. Who has all day to create search terms and bounce back and forth? You do apparently yet you are too lazy to provide preambles with context and opinion to blind weblinks you dump probably because you’r expending time and cognitive effort with searching and bouncing back and forth.
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Journal of Educational Technology Development and Exchange( JETDE)
Asynchronous Network Discussions asOrganizational Scaffold Learning: Threaded vs.Flat-Structured Discussion Boards
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1.2 Learning Impacts
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https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b2d3/57ebd7a2c7baeaf89ba5501cd951ec6dc898.pdf
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Human thinking, knowledge presentations, and constructions may not be as simple as hierarchical forms. Human thinking may be symbolized as a more networking, weaving format (Educause, 2008). In other words, humans reflect and synthesize various types of ideas/viewpoints to construct a new set of knowledge. Hillman, Willis, & Gunawardena (1994) emphasized the importance of learner-interface interaction. Branching and replying cause threaded discussions to become off track, and following a thread that has branched can be discombobulating and unnatural, which commonly, forces participants to initiate a new thread if they want to return to the initial topic. Flat-structured discussions require participants to read all postings to promote meta-cognition and self-regulated skills to achieve higher learning.
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Coding Horror
Discussions: Flat or Threaded?
https://blog.codinghorror.com/discussions-flat-or-threaded/
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Q. OK, but can’t you at least have branching? If someone gets off on a tangent, that should be its own branch which you can follow or go back to the main branch.
A. Branching is very logical to a programmer’s mind but it doesn’t correspond to the way conversations take place in the real world. Branched discussions are disjointed to follow and distracting. [..] Branching makes discussions get off track, and reading a thread that is branched is discombobulating and unnatural. Better to force people to start a new topic if they want to get off topic.
Re: “Start at the top and work down.” That makes sense when each comment is related primarily to the original article or the “OP” (original poster), but if you’re responding to a specific comment made by a vociferous poster, it helps to put the reply next to the comment. That way regardless of when someone joins the discussion, whether starting at the top or in the middle, the context is close by. Most technical forums have discussions spanning hundreds of pages over many months, with each thread a separate tangent. Keeping each tangent separated, makes it easier for the reader to skip over tangents not of interest. As I pointed out earlier, it wasn’t much help starting your post with (@Roger) when Roger has made numerous previous posts, only one of which you are responding to. Putting it in as a reply not only puts it in the right place, but also obviates the need for the “@name” heading.
I posted ages ago about Teslas full autopilot beta and this was days after I first spotted the news and Slashdot only just noticed?
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One of the things which puzzles me is why Tesla and other manufacturers of these systems use so much hardware. Your average human being only has two eyeballs and limited movement and also a very limited by technology standards field of view and performance under conditions like fog and heavy rain. This makes me wonder if as understanding improves and the algorithms behind this improve whether autopilot systems will be drastically simplified as time goes on.
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I know the UK has done a huge amount of research into road safety as well as driver comprehension of signs and road markings. To my eyes UK and other European road environments seem better designed or safer than the US. It’s obviously near to impossible to re-engineer national infrastructures in the kind of time frames and costs which are politically acceptable but I’m also wondering how much environmental issues like this have been considered.
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Another stray thought is given the issues of climate change and mass slaughter on the roads from human driven vehicles whether the issue of technology patents will come within the remit of the United Nations. I imagine profiteering and protectionism might give rise to charges of crimes against humanity for the careless and those with feet of clay.
On threading, @Trashtalk linked to a 2006 blog post by CodingHorror. He is one of the chief developers of the Discourse open-source forum software.
As it stands today, Discourse gives the best of both worlds. You can read posts either sequentially or threaded as you choose – both are always available.
All posts are listed sequentially, but if a post is a reply to an earlier post, there is link to that post, which you can click to read it in place without scrolling, or you can jump straight to it.
If a post has replies, it shows the number of replies, and you can likewise click to see all the replies in place without scrolling, or jump to any of them.
Since the SDMB switched over to Discourse, I’ve been using it a lot and I really like it. It’s the best forum software I’ve used.
Here, the problem is that if you reply a post from a few days ago, the reply will be high up the page, and most people won’t see it. I think most people don’t scroll through the whole page each time, but jump to the bottom.
I had no idea there was dope available for straight people. I thought only dopes used dope.
@GreenWyvern
I jump to the bottom then page up to where I left off. It’s simple and effective. I also have this thing called a memory. There are few excuses for following a discussion on this low conversation traffic blog even if you have to scan through from the top to get the meta context. One thing I hate is driveby comments which clearly don’t get the history or context or read around the subject before leaping in.
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Its things like this which explain why we have court proceedures and case law covering inadequacy and negligence. It’s so people pay attention and have no excuses for laziness. You also have to counter for abuses and power and discrimination and lack of due diligence. Additionally, this is also why you have things called appeals to higher courts because courts themselves are not immune to error
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The biggest source of complaints leading to legal cases in the UK is old men over the age of 50 (usually but not always in the state sector with timeserved seniority) being obstinate sods. It’s easy to forget how dense old farts can be which is why I’m flat out refusing to read through @ronc latest comment let alone reply.
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As per my comments on Usenet Discourse is built from the round up to support both formats. At the same time I don’tsee many in depth conversations on anything touching Discourse I ever read (which is minimal).
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Technical conversations are easy. Anyone can be clever or appear to be clever with these. Conversations involving softer topics especially topics which depend a lot on individual perspective and social influences don’t fit into threaded formats at all because they rely on a cumulative narrative development which can draw on a lot of multi-disciplinary and background work. Both links I supplied don’t explictly mention this but they are alluded to in the academic paper I linked to. Other scientists in other fields will conduct their own research and cite this paper so the overall scientific narrative moves forward. Ultimately this is why you have meta studies (or synthesis) which roll everything in the narrative up. A synthesis usually lists not tens but hundreds of citations because of this. It is not work for the lazy. Both technical subjects which ultimately depend on what the manual says and science have arbiters in place which keep everything sane. Most none technical discussion is largely ill-informed and formed by a general population with wildly varying competences. The academic paper alludes to this and the discussion surrounding Discourse only alludes to it indirectly. Without a meta narrative everything falls apart.
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I have procedures in place for filtering out undesirable clients. They are almost always caught out by their own laziness. I reject 70% of prospective clients. I had a very good new client this week who also passed all my pandemic checks. Another four who tried to make demands and take short cuts chanced it and got a flat no. So, basically, don’t be thick and unsociable and last but not least don’t lazy.
Re: “The biggest source of complaints leading to legal cases in the UK is old men over the age of 50…being obstinate sods.” I just thought that was an interesting statistic about the UK, which deserved repeating.
@Ronc
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Don’t edit stuff so it changes the meaning of what is said. You’re also skipping past the whole science and law thing too which gives history and context. I’m not going to spoonfeed you so you can read around the subject and do your own research on your own time lazybones. There’s enough pointers there for anyone even mimimally competent to get started.
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Justwondering if anything on this crappy blog software works…
Re: ” You’re also skipping past the whole science and law thing too which gives history and context.” That’s why I used the “reply” threading feature, so my response is close to the original post, where the full context is available.
This is a very-good article on autonomous-cars. I especially agree with the part titled: “ Interpolation vs extrapolation“. I think that is the problem to be solved.
https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/08/06/why-elon-musk-is-wrong-about-level-5-self-driving-cars-syndication/
I found this very-good article on autonomous-cars. I especially agree with the part titled: “ Interpolation vs extrapolation“. I think that is the problem to be solved. It is in perception of the world where autonomous vehicles fail.
https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/08/06/why-elon-musk-is-wrong-about-level-5-self-driving-cars-syndication/
@ronc
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No. You changed the meaning with your edit of the original text. This has nothing to do with flat file or threaded format but an attempt to manipulate perception.
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I raise you a blockquote.
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P.S. Stupid blog software.
OK, I can’t delete my post, but let’s just make it clear that your meaning was not correctly conveyed by the sentence: “The biggest source of complaints leading to legal cases in the UK is old men over the age of 50…being obstinate sods.” For that, I apologize. (There was a brief period of time when Cringely’s blog did allow for edits. If that feature returns, I’ll come back to delete it.)
I just saw this article on my “Goggle News” feed. It is the latest “Tesla” ‘self-driving’ uses the most recent ‘Beta’-of-the-automonous software.
https://electrek.co/2020/10/24/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-30-minute-realistic-trip-video/
Enjoy the video. 🙂
@ronc
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Fair enough. Apology accepted.
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I find the lack of preview button is really irritating.
@trashtalk
I just read this article. Interesting that there is no mention of the customer by the “Mercedes”-spokesperson, in it. I wonder if Bob Cringely had been informed-early that this announcement was coming?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-mecrcdes-benz-quits-autonomous-driving/
The article that I posted may be ‘fake news’, but because it is the Germans—I will have to wait to finally find out the truth! LOL! 😺!
Christopher
The article now shows an update at the top that reads: “Update: Head of Digital Transformation at Daimler AG Sascha Pallenberg has noted on Twitter that the report from RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND) is false, and that Mercedes-Benz’s autonomous program is still ongoing. A quote previously misattributed to the Mercedes-Benz head has also been corrected.”
@Ronc,
I think whoever did make this original statement, assuming that it was real—and I think it was in fact, real—was probably talking to a group of investors. I think it is real because Mercedes has not really released a statement, that I can find—that says they never made any statement like this. In other words: a real-denial. I think there’s some truth to what was said in the original statement. It is very hard for a company like Mercedes, and many others, to adjust to this new-technology because they are in original equipment manufacturer (OEM), and they are very diversified. In this day-and-age, though, everything is changing so rapidly that what used to be a strength is now becoming a major weakness for all the ‘legacy’-automakers. They are so tied into ‘the old ways’ that they have no way of adjusting to the new-environment they find themselves in.
Everyone is missing the fact that legislative and business environments can be different in different jurisdictions. There is also more than one way to skin a cat. There are youtubes with Mercedes demonstratign their projects and a signficant number of academics and others are doing a lot of research into automated driving and infrastructure and social systems which isn’t captured by lazy media chasing snappy soundbites by Musk et al. As for public policy getting anything done in three years is greased lightening for government. Mercedes also supply a lot of critical parts to Tesla without which Tesla cars would grind to a halt. I have no idea if Teslas free patent use promise still holds true or how the EU or governments will legislate the critical components of automated systems in the future. It could just be the actual automation bits are forced into being open sourced under none prejudicial schemes or even, basically, free as partof a scheme to combat monopolies and abuse of market power or simply to meet safety and environmental legislation.
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The fact anyone published this nonsense shows there is a line between journalism and mere chatter. Rush to judge polarised echo chambers really aren’t the best format for expansive discussion. Yet another reason for Europe to give the US and social media etcetera a sharp elbow.
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I’m not forgetting GW Bush’s comment about “Old Europe” a hurry or quite nasty American comments about the French being “cheese eating surrender monkeys”. It’s not exactly going too well post “Mission Accomplished” in the new colonies is it?
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/10/28/2130225/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-a-distant-second-to-gm-super-cruise
Be sure to read the fine print as to where the GM system scored much better: “The system uses lights and sounds to aggressively alert the driver if they stop paying attention.” My guess is without that annoying “improvement” Tesla would’ve scored higher.
https://www.benzinga.com/tech/20/11/18313294/waymo-suggests-orders-of-magnitude-more-advanced-than-teslas-full-self-driving-approach
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I follow tesla with great excitement
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