This is a column about Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, but it starts with an old story about Intel and Monsanto from my book Accidental Empires. Stick with me here and you’ll soon understand why…
There was a time in the early 1980s when Intel suffered terrible quality problems. It was building microprocessors and other parts by the millions and by the millions these parts tested bad. The problem was caused by dust, the major enemy of computer chip makers.
Semiconductor companies fight dust by building their components in expensive clean rooms. Intel had plenty of clean rooms, but it still had a big dust problem, so the engineers cleverly decided that the wafers were probably dusty before they ever arrived at Intel. The wafers were made in the East by Monsanto. Suddenly it was Monsanto’s dust problem.
Monsanto engineers spent months and millions trying to eliminate every last speck of dust from their silicon wafer production facility in South Carolina. They made what they thought was terrific progress, too, though it didn’t show in Intel’s production yields, which were still terrible. The funny thing was that Monsanto’s other customers weren’t complaining. IBM, for example, wasn’t complaining, and IBM was a very picky customer, always asking for wafers that were extra big or extra small or triangular instead of round. IBM was having no dust problems.
If Monsanto was clean and Intel was clean, the only remaining possibility was that the wafers somehow got dusty on their trip between the two companies, so the Monsanto engineers hired a private investigator to tail the next shipment of wafers to Intel. Their private eye uncovered an Intel shipping clerk who was opening incoming boxes of super-clean silicon wafers and then counting out the wafers by hand into piles on his super-unclean desktop, just to make sure that Bob Noyce was getting every silicon wafer he was paying for.
There is a business axiom that management gurus spout and big-shot industrialists repeat to themselves as a mantra if they want to sleep well at night. The axiom says that when a business grows past $1 billion in annual sales it becomes too large for any one individual to have a significant impact. Alas, this is not true when it’s a $1 billion high-tech business, where too often the critical path goes right through the head of one particular programmer or engineer or even through the head of a well-meaning clerk down in the shipping department. Remember that Intel was already a $1+ billion company when it was brought to its knees by desk dust.
The reason that there are so many points at which a chip, a computer, or a program is dependent on just one person is that these tech companies lack depth. Like any other new industry, this is one staffed mainly by pioneers, who are, by definition, a small minority. People in critical positions in these organizations don’t usually have backup, so when they make a mistake, the whole company makes a mistake.
Which brings us back to Facebook and its founder, Mark Zuckerberg. Facebook has been getting a lot of bad press lately because its platform has been a particularly effective medium for pushing extreme political positions backed by provable lies. The problem, say Facebook critics, is the company’s resistance to controlling such posters if they are, say, the President of the United States of America. While Facebook might shut down you or me if we tried to do the same thing, they haven’t shut down or edited President Trump, which the company says is all in the interest of free speech.
Yeah, right.
Facebook is under a siege of sorts as advertisers boycott the company’s platform over this issue. Facebook lives or dies by advertising so this is a real threat to the company if it grows and endures. It would be easy to solve the problem if Facebook just took a more rational policy, treating all posters the same, Presidents and paupers alike.
Why doesn’t Facebook just make this problem go away?
One theory is that the company fears President Trump, who is always happy to threaten any outfit he perceives as throttling his political message. If Facebook can just keep shuffling its feet until the election, the thinking goes, then Trump will lose and his threats will lose with him.
But I have a different theory. My theory is that Facebook’s policy on political free speech is entirely — and deliberately — attributable to Mark Zuckerberg. Facebook’s position is Zuck’s position and it will only change when Zuckerberg feels he has made his point, whatever that is.
To understand why this is the case, just look at Facebook’s stock structure. Yes, stock structure.
Facebook has two types of shares identified as A and B. A shares are the common shares the company sold when it went public in 2012. Each A share carries one vote at the company’s annual meeting. Facebook B shares are original founder shares, which aren’t traded on any exchange, but each B share gets 10 votes at the annual meeting.
Through his B shares, Mark Zuckerberg holds 57.9 percent of all possible Facebook shareholder votes. He, as an individual, has voting control of the entire enterprise. He can’t be fired. He can’t even be effectively opposed. Facebook will never face the wrath of an activist investor.
Looking back to that story about Intel and Monsanto, Mark Zuckerberg engineered a lifetime position as Facebook’s key man with every critical path going directly through him. Like de Gaulle said of France, Facebook literally is Zuckerberg.
Jump now to 2020 and we can see that Facebook’s free speech position is Zuckerberg’s position because of this Faustian deal. So why doesn’t he change it and be less of a dick? Because power doesn’t exist if it is not wielded.
Even if Facebook changes policies, it will do so very slowly, because Zuckerberg doesn’t want to look vulnerable.
I don’t know what’s happening inside Facebook, but I’d guess that this is an instance when Zuckerberg wants to remind everyone who is the boss.
That’s how Tony Soprano might have handled it.
First comment – no comment
LOOK WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE . KNOW AND YOUR CLONE AND YOUR AI ..THAT LOOK LIKE YOU . A KILL SWITCH IS PUT IN PLACE .I HAVE PROOF ON FLASHDRIVES ALL OVER THE PLACE . YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.ID ADVISE[!] TO SHUT DOWN F.B. AND SLITHER AWAY . DONT PLAN ON The allies think you have . 2HYB . INTEL OUT
LOOK WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE . KNOW AND YOUR CLONE AND YOUR AI ..THAT LOOK LIKE YOU . A KILL SWITCH IS PUT IN PLACE .I HAVE PROOF ON FLASHDRIVES ALL OVER THE PLACE . YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.ID ADVISE[!] TO SHUT DOWN F.B. AND SLITHER AWAY . DONT PLAN ON The allies think you have . 2HYB . INTEL OUT
So please tell us how to get rid of this malevolent little ‘stupid fuck’ before it’s too late.
Vote November 3rd, but not for the malevolent little ‘stupid fuck’
Not american and not talking about the other stupid fuck
Interesting point and probably right. One minor detail: Facebook doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the ad boycott. Last time I saw numbers, they alleged that only 6% of FB’s ad revenue comes from its top advertisers. That revenue is diffuse and with an incredibly long tail, so the departure of even the majority of the biggest household names wouldn’t have an appreciable effect on the bottom line. Zuck is already taking it on the chin in terms of publicity so there’s no downside there to advertisers leaving.
If Zuckerberg ever wanted to win a Nobel Peace Prize for himself, he only need shut down his rotten little enterprise.
Thank you. This needed to be said.
Putin is the devil Zuckerberg made a deal with, not Trump. And Putin is President for life.
Normally these columns are great.
But I call BS on Bob’s conclusion that this is a power play. He offers no evidence except that Zuckerberg *has* the power.
More likely, Zuck is afraid of Trump, as Bob mentions.
I agree with Bob. The thing that bothers me most is the hypocrisy. If President Trump can get away with saying things on Facebook, that I-and-others cannot, then Facebook has no rules. This reality then makes Facebook a very-corrupt enterprise. Of course, maybe it just reflects human-nature on a worldwide-scale? Sad.
No hypocrisy here. In the words of Big Dan Teague, “IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY BOYS!” Until you figure that out, you don’t understand.
Re: “Facebook has no rules. This reality then makes Facebook a very-corrupt enterprise” Doesn’t corruption require breaking rules? I can’t imagine a situation where some entity is actually corrupt, yet broke no rules.
So if I engineer the law – by say paying a whole load of legislators a bunch of money – to make it lawful to accept money in exchange for convicting someone in a death penalty case, then you’d be happy with judges getting paid off for that?
I wouldn’t. Simply being lawful or not is not the appropriate discriminator here.
I was talking about the absence of rules or laws, not the presence of bad ones.
This is reply to your next post. Posting here because button to reply below is missing:
There is no such thing as “no rules”. Every decision is made by some rule, even if that rule is to roll dice to decide or every man for himself. Hence your quandary does not exist. The questions/quandary may be: What then is corrupt rulemaking, or corrupt application of rules?
Re: “every man for himself”. I was including that under “no rules”, but perhaps I should have said “no clear published rules that others can use as a guide as to what is or is not permitted”.
The problem with the “truth” is deciding who gets to decide what the truth is. Everyone is biased. Even the “fact checkers” like Snope are biased.
So is it you? Is it me? Is it some large committee? Is it the government? (Of course it’s not the government. They’ve already told us Oswald was the lone shooter.)
Instead, it should be like it always has been. Anyone can have a voice, and the recipients get to decide what they want to believe based on the evidence presented. Nobody should be blocked no matter how ridiculous their claims are.
I am not aware of any media org that has ever censored a major political figure, let alone a US president. It would set a dangerous precedent.
I know democratic operatives would love to see this happen. The problem is what happens when it’s your guy they are censoring? That will happen soon enough if that precedent is allowed to be set.
Freedom of speech is too important to allow some corporation to rule over it. We just have to live with freedom being messy sometimes. Zuck deserves respect for seeing the big picture.
“L’état, c’est moi,” Louis XIV not de Gaulle, n’est-ce pas?
De Gaulle
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17817/did-de-gaulle-really-say-i-am-france-je-suis-la-france
I saw Mark Zuckerberg at a grocery store in San Francisco yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
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He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
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I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
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The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
That was almost meditative. I really enjoyed it.
Many people have before, it’s a well worn copypasta, if memory serves first told about Gates.
The story about Gates that I think you’re referring to is that he was in a line at the cashier (decades before self-checkout) and was trying to find a coupon for 25¢ on a pint of ice cream that he thought he brought with him. After several minutes of him going through his pockets, a guy behind him tossed a quarter on the counter and said, “Here, big shot, pay me back after you make your first million.” It was also in Bob’s “Accidental Empires.”
See, I keep telling you, we don’t have the problems that we think we have. The problem (singular) we have is the way we treat crazy people.
We ought to put them someplace safe — with, for example, crayons. Instead, we put nearly all of them in unsafe situations, while making sure that no one has any way to cope with any of the collateral damage; and a select handful, we put in positions of unlimited power, while making sure that no one has any way to cope with any of the collateral damage.
It’s a shame, in the most literal sense of the word.
Read you all the time when you were publishing it years ago. Always interesting and full of facts.
More of the same here. The special stock new to me.
Keep it up
Chuck Azar
Q for corporate lawyer: If DoJ gets the sack to break FB up, can they shatter this B stock structure?
I am not corporate lawyer but I can tell you under the basic premise of law Department of Justice can regulate only relationship between company and other companies and company and state entities and criminal investigation within the company (which is not the case what you are talking about here).
Any court can not order you and your wife to divorce no matter how bad the marriage is.
To make long story very short answer is no.
There is nothing in the article which the world didn’t figure out some time ago. The problem has been to engineer enough social and business and legislative support to do something about it. Cringelys article misses all this to claim he thought of it years ago.
@granville
If you wanted to take a picture of me you’d need to navigate my T&Cs. I hold all the rights and only authorised equipment can be used in an approved way. Like Cringely I could claim I’m smarter or thought of it first except I didn’t. I learned off professional photographers and producers who have been years in their business. I also very likely know the law better than anyone who may try to dodge this. While I do make a healthy profit from porn pictures and videos I would make a loss on the work which takes up a lot of time or has a large production expense. Depending on what I do any media is essentially advertising. As long as nobody is charging for it or building up a following on my content it doesn’t matter if it’s shared. By chance I stumbled on another British escort and analysed her websites and content. She has a different approach to the standard output and it works well. We’re in different market segments so not competing at all. With some work which I need to do anyway I think I can borrow from her approach too. It’s the same with book authors. Really there is no competition because it’s all about growing the market. Do men spend money on games or books or sex? With economic growth back on track men can afford any or all and that’s fine with me.
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I suspect Cringelys blog isn’t too far removed from this either…
“If you wanted to take a picture of me you’d need to navigate my T&Cs. I hold all the rights and only authorised equipment can be used in an approved way.”
In your private areas, this is true. Here in the states, however, (where Zuckerberg & Granville are), if you’re in a public place, anyone can take your picture. There are limitations on how that image can be used (no commercial use, mostly) but they can take the picture and share it, perhaps on Facebook.
@Todd
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Murdoch is another one who pulled this B stock stunt as well. I suspect legislators and regulators or law enforcement will do something about it.
Nobody will do anything about that because it is completely legal. Government is not interested in ownership structure and should not be. Lot of billionaires – majority owners of Liberty Media and CBS and others have same ownership structure. Those are all big corporations listed on Nasdaq NYSE or London Stock Exchange or wherever and before they went public NYSE or Nasdaq or London Stock Exchange lawyers took a hard look at it and found that everything was according to rules besides each corporation has small army of lawyers who are paid everything to be according to rules so forget about that.
I’m not too up on this story, but wonder if this is a legal liability thing. If Facebook starts policing its content, then is it a publisher and no longer a platform? Thus might new legal regulations apply to it as a publisher? So the real motivation is to avoid being subjected to regulations that might place additional requirements to their business practices. I’ve heard this argument elsewhere.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act.shtml
Thanks for the clarification. “To be a bit more explicit: at no point in any court case regarding Section 230 is there a need to determine whether or not a particular website is a “platform” or a “publisher.” What matters is solely the content in question. If that content is created by someone else, the website hosting it cannot be sued over it. Really, this is the simplest, most basic understanding of Section 230: it is about placing the liability for content online on whoever created that content, and not on whoever is hosting it. If you understand that one thing, you’ll understand most of the most important things about Section 230.”
Good link!
“If Facebook starts policing its content, then is it a publisher and no longer a platform?”
Even if that were true, FB already polices its content. I know plenty of people who have been put in “FB Jail” for a week because someone reported their post.
@John
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For work I use some platforms and monitor user content and comments attached to my own content. I don’t need to complaint or delete anything very often but I have done this in the past. Does this make the platform or me a publisher? I live in the UK and the current platforms I use are overseas for various reasons. I don’t use a US platform.
I suspect a lot of high priced lawyers are responsible for any mess. All of these big social media companies are monopolies due to how US regulators interpret monopoly law and the companies know exactly what they are doing. The law is there but it’s like acute versus chronic conditions. It can be very very difficult to prosecute a case without a deep dive on evidence collected with a very wide net. Now we have the evidence and the arguments and action is being taken so the noose is tightening. I personally want to see them prosecuted for hate crimes and terrorism. Put it this way. No matter how hard they dodged they took the money.
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I can think of another cheat and liar who took the money…
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act.shtml
I think John has the right answer. Facebook has a crisis, no doubt.
You can’t sue the post office if you get a “dear John” letter. They can’t shut down the phone company because Tony Soprano called someone for a hit. These are common carriers.
If FB looses the status of “just a pipe”, they are doomed. To be responsible for policing every single post is the existential crisis. It destroys their ability to operate at scale.
AI won’t help, someone has to tag images for training. There are horrible people out there. If there are 2.6 Billion (https://www.statista.com/statistics/264810/number-of-monthly-active-facebook-users-worldwide/) on the platform, some will be bad. It is easy to find articles about Facebook contractors with PTSD from looking at the images posted. Multiple that by 1 billion and the business is dead.
Zuck gives in on one political cancel request, and the whole house of cards falls.
The difference is that the Post Office doesn’t choose to send you the Dear John letter through their algorithm.
Facebook doesn’t force you to follow anyone. That’s the viewer’s choice. Their algorithm only surfaces the most popular posts from those you follow so you would stay there longer, and be more likely to see their ads, which you’re free to ignore. Also, the post office puts stuff in my mailbox from people I don’t “follow”, whether it upsets me or not.
I think it is ridiculous to expect social media websites to be responsible for censoring content. It is an impossible task.
A better solution is a reader-voting and reader-post-flagging system for determining what is mostly read and what is mostly ignored.
So, is it just the Right that misrepresents things? Or does it go both ways? Perhaps Zuckerberg recognizes this truth…
Sure. Apply the same standards to everyone on both sides. That’s what we’re saying.
But you’ll find that 95% of the outright lies, bullshit, hate speech, and incendiary propaganda comes from the right.
You said: “But you’ll find that 95% of the outright lies, bullshit, hate speech, and incendiary propaganda comes from the right.”
Lots of people on the right would say “But you’ll find that 95% of the outright lies, bullshit, hate speech, and incendiary propaganda comes from the left.”
Both are opinions. Both are probably wrong too. (My guess is that the percentage in both is more like 50% instead of 95% — but that too is only an opinion.)
“The problem, say Facebook critics, is the company’s resistance to controlling such posters if they are, say, the President of the United States of America.”
Bob, please spare us all the sour grapes. All politicians lie. Only one side doesn’t like when the other does it.
Besides, Facebook fancies itself a platform (ie a common carrier), not a publisher. Its attempts to skirt that line by exercising anything more than a light touch with firmly defined standards (moderation, not editorial control) is not legal, as will become increasingly clear in due time.
Have you been following the way Owen Benjamin is taking down Patreon? Maybe you aren’t, but I can assure you Facebook is, as well as all the other social media giants. They got into extinction-level event trouble for doing what you want. They will all be brought to heel, and not those who make the site what it is.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act.shtml
I would say this more properly dates back to Ellen Pao (Reddit), circa 2013. The slippery slope concerning ‘discretionary intervention,’ ‘absolute non-intervention,’ or ‘corrupt institutionally-biased intervention’ within social media has been brewing for twenty-ish years (UseNet), and really ‘hot’ for the past seven or ten.
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I think the linkage to “big alpha CEO wanting to stay in charge” is unsubstantiated and overblown. My strong preference is to allow private business to remain private business. Facebook is not _yet_ a journalist service (though one could argue it is drifting close, by sheer dint of subscriber headcount); it will remain neither fish nor fowl until it is co-opted by conspiracy yielding attributable damages (i.e., death threats) or propaganda yielding measurable institutional harm (i.e., election fraud), and how that gets verified or quantified I’m dipped if I can tell you. We can’t re-do elections every time a faceless Internet entity claims to have minorly tampered.
If Zuckerberg can’t afford to pay to clean his mess up he could always quit. The rest of us don’t owe him a living. In the UK there is plenty of law covering malicious communications and duty of care. I say tax him or fine him until his pips sqeak. We have laws for a reason even if Americans think they are a special case.
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I also don’t take my opinions of randoms who lifted their talking points off websites. Honestly, you lot. Make an effort.
Nor does Zuckerberg owe the rest of us anything. It’s a free service. If you don’t like it, leave.
> just make your own facebook
“It’s a free service. If you don’t like it, leave.”
It’s not about individuals, it’s about the effect on society.
Not so simple. Facebook maintains profiles of people even without accounts. If someone puts your e-mail and phone number in their contact list, they Facebook now has that available to make sales pitches.
Every account has a shadow profile that maintains information you did not give to Facebook but which the company has learned about you from other accounts.
^^ Bruce Schneier has previously used this argument — with which I happen to agree — to conclude that “Even if I [Schneier] refuse to use Google [Gmail], it doesn’t matter, because 50% or more of my co-correspondents use it, therefore the bulk of my activities and communications are Google-harvested no matter what I do.” It’s a sobering admission concerning the shadowy by-products of monoculture.
Meanwhile Twitter has gotten more aggressive, and is now censoring accounts that put a Star of David in their profile.
Twitter isn’t banning the Star of David. It’s banning the yellow star that resembles the patch that Jews had to wear in Nazi Germany. THAT symbol has been used by a lot of anti-Semitic hate groups.
The Jerusalem Post says it also included “a white Star of David in a graffiti style” : https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/star-of-david-deemed-hateful-imagery-by-twitter-635847 . But the article concluded: “While the majority of cases were correctly actioned, some accounts highlighted recently were mistakes and have now been restored. We’re grateful to @antisemitism @ADL @CST_UK and others for bringing this to our attention and for their partnership in tackling antisemitism.”
Facebook might not be worried too much by advertisers withdrawing but might not want Trump supporters to withdraw en masse. Who knows, maybe they earn the company a lot of money?
Mark Zuckerberg is a major prick, even more so than similar billionaires. We all knew this already.
As for people saying that Facebook shouldn’t police posts – it already does. Just not Trump’s. (Look up Facebook’s Community Standards. They moderated nearly 10 million posts from Jan-Mar 2020.)
Twitter, on the other hand, has moderated Trump’s tweets.
Exactly. It’s the self-serving double-standard that irks.
Right wing talking points grabbed off the internet are always obvious even if the person parroting them doesn’t disclose their brain is switched off and they get their opinions from Breitbart or the Daily Mail. It’s also pretty depressing reading Cringelys slide to the right after his boasting about being a real journalist.
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I’ve had to deal with clients who fancy themselves as the boss or who have unpleasant attitudes. I’ve found it is fairly easy to pick up who is a decent person and just a little wrong headed versus those who are just bad. I have had a minority of clients who really aren’t suited to using escorts and a thankfully very very tiny minority of nasty pieces of work who I get rid of. I also have clients who dislike the idea that I’m fucking them just for the money or it’s all about the physical without emotional intimacy. So yes I pre-moderate and also edit the experience. Just because I work as a prostitute doesn’t mean I will fuck anyone. If I wanted to be a “general carrier” and fuck anyone life would be pretty horrible and messed up.
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I actually read this whole article as Cringely trying to say things without saying them. There’s this whole “yeah minserver is a fuck up” and “yeah I’m dodging legal obligations” and “nah not gonna say anything to appear weak” and “anyone who disagrees is gonna get a smacking”.
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P.S. Tony Soprano isn’t a real person. It’s television.
> Right wing talking points … from Breitbart or the Daily Mail.
I don’t know what definition you’re using for “right wing”, but those are practically indistinguishable from the New York Times or Washington Post. All of the mass media are hard left, and trying to make distinctions between them is like Communists splitting hairs between the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks.
It’s amazing how some twat thinks they know more about the law than anyone else or that US law applies overseas and shoves a “section 230” weblink in your face like a smartass. Not everyone swallows American bullshit or takes random jerks at face value. I couldn’t give a flying fuck about your first amendment or section 230. America is a cesspit in a lot of ways and I simply don’t do business in America or within anyone based in America. Surprise, I can actually sue in an English court so I hope you have no business interests or assets held over here and yes I still have the paperwork on House of Commons stationary to prove it Secondly, I know politics and with a little pressure from Prime Minister Blair got the law changed in America which created a huge amount of stink among “free speech” advocates on Slashdot when it happened. Random shitheads I couldn’t care less about. They are ten a penny and easily ignored.
Except Trump didn’t lie, you just didn’t like what he said.
I’ll be very, very glad when section 230 is amended to recognize platforms which are not content neutral as publishers (as twitter, facebook, google, et al. are not) and holds them accountable for their editorial decisions.
Trump is a sleazy conman, a glorified snake oil salesman. You would have to be blind, or choose to be blind, not see that.
There’s a term for people who treat Trump as their Dear Leader and think that the sun shines out his ass – ‘useful idiots’.
The game is to throw out some racist, sexist, fascist dog-whistles in order to hook the idiots. Then flatter them and feed them opinions and slogans, because they’re not capable of thinking for themselves and will believe whatever you say. Then sell them down the river.
Trump has never cared about another human being in his entire life, and has an unbroken record of treating everyone who works for him like shit. But strangely enough, his dupes seem to imagine that he cares about them and will do something for them.
It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
> Trump is a sleazy conman, a glorified snake oil salesman.
I’d guess many see this as just what the doctor ordered – a loud “screw you” to the political establishment.
Best thing next to “none of the above” sweeping the ballots.
Off topic but do you have a reference for the Monsanto-Intel story? (I have your book and there is not reference there.)
Took me about 30 sec to go to the book on Amazon, search inside and find it’s on page 50.
I knew the actual text, thank you, Green, and Monsanto is also in the index. But what I meant to ask was: What is the source of this story or this purely apocryphal?
Cringely makes things up which is why no respectable publisher will touch him. The fact Cringely is giving off a whiff of a slide to the right and has openly angled for a Fox News job he’ll be writing for Breitbart next. I guess some people will do anything for money.
I don’t see where you’re getting a slide to the right. I don’t get that that impression at all.
@GreenWyvern
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Maybe it’s because I’m seeing Cringelys macho posturing with this column differently or maybe I’m just European and reacting against the American worldview. Even your most “left” political parties are pretty right wing for most European countries. The fact Cringely even entertained hoping for a job with Fox News was a tipping point and I had my suspicions about him on and off for a while. But yah know he has a dick between his legs so gets a free pass from the boys.
As it happens, I’m not American, or British, or European. So I have an outsider’s view.
But I lived and worked in the US for about 5 years – long enough to be familiar with it, and to know that I would never want to live there permanently.
The headline of Cringely’s post is ‘Zuckerberg’s Pact with the Devil’. The Devil is Trump.
Cringely has his faults, and perhaps he would consider selling his soul to the Devil himself if the price was right, but I don’t believe he has ever been a right winger.
I don’t know if I could work for Fox no matter how much they paid me and I wouldn’t even joke about it. They’re a pretty evil company and I have no wish to be a useful idiot. How some in the UK can work for the right wing press and keep a straight face and live with themselves I don’t know given the toxic bilge they write. Then there is Nick Clegg who went to work as head of global policy and communications for Facebook. The devil pays well.
To be honest I’m not made of titanium and might fold myself for the right offer. There are limits though. The US is also too frantic for me. I can imagine a million different places I’d rather be.
This is really such a surreal place. I sometimes used to wonder what some of my favorite blogs from 10 years ago would be like if their authors hadn’t abandoned them, but then I read here and now I don’t wonder about that anymore. They would just keep writing the same takes, with the same anecdotes, over and over again, oblivious to the passage of time. Just to confuse you, they would even illustrate them with photos from 2007 (pinched, of course, what professional columnist has time to ask a professional photojournalist if they can use their work?)
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https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/technology/03facebook.html
That’s interesting… I wonder if Crookely paid Craig Ruttle and the AP for the use of that image? It is possible that Getty (or one of the other agencies) owns the rights and Crookely has a license but…
Based on his track record, I kinda doubt it.
Yeah, you’re right to doubt. I kinda guess someone with a license to a photograph would title it “Screenshot-2020-07-22-11.06.04-300×169.jpeg.”
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Note I tried submitting this 7 times through the filter. This high technology blog is powered by fucking gerbils.
Re: “Note I tried submitting this” Did you succeed or fail?
@granville
I’m guessing technology changes faster than people. But then fashion changes a lot and there isn’t much new in technology when you think about it. The more things change the more they stay the same? It’s all very confusing. I’ve looked deeply into “fair use” law and it isn’t what people think it is. There are a few snags in it for the unwary. Speaking of copyright did Cringely ever secure the rights for the Jobs documentary he did off the back of footage pinched from Channel 4? Just because it was found in a crate belonging to an ex Channel 4 employee doesn’t mean Cringely has the rights to use it. It will be interesting to know what the contract says.
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I’ve been doing some cam chats and trying some new stuff and asking for feedback. The results are pretty good but then people who like it will say that. I can pinch ideas but any photos or video has to be original and there is no way past this. New stuff is good as guys get tired eventually of the same thing. The worst thing about trying to get quality feedback is if guys like it too much conversations tend to just halt because guys get a carried away with the effect it’s having on them. Then again I’d complain if they didn’t. When I actually do write a blog it’s with a 90%+ suspicion nobody is reading it for any highbrow content. That can actually be very wearing but it’s really nice when a client comments on content.
Since Roger didn’t say it:
“Why doesn’t Facebook just make this problem go away?”
Why don’t you make the MineServer problem just go away by letting people know they will never see them on KickStarter?
This depends on where you live. Here in Spain, FaceBook has chosen a company with close ties to the Spanish Socialist party, so you can guess what content gets a free pass and who gets blocked.
Re: “FaceBook has chosen a company”. What do you mean by “choose” a company? Choose for what purpose?
Google search gives only one relevant search
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/facebook-takes-down-far-right-groups-days-before-spanish-election
What confused me is the fact that a “group” is not a “company”, but you helped me realize that the post came from a non-American-English-language native speaker. I even have trouble understanding the foreign language they speak in the British cop series “Bulletproof”.
EG, from Bulletproof: “My old man lost the plot” and “What are you saying later”.
https://www.cwtv.com/shows/bulletproof/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=google_kp_watch
The Intel story is made up. Somehow we are to believe the manufacturing techs didn’t notice the packaging from the wafer vendor was ripped open, sterility broken? No. They didn’t need a private eye to figure that one out. Just like a doctor wouldn’t accept meds from an open container. Dumb dumb dumb.
If cringely did another kickstarter 3/4 of you would fall for it with open check book. Again. Readers here prove over and over that they will believe anything they’re told. He should write a book about the gullibility of mankind.
It might be worth going through Accidental Empires once again and just picking out all the stories for which there is no other corroboration or reference.
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The Intel story sounds suspicious, but I’m also thinking about the Bill Gates buying ice cream and the 25 cent coupon one. Why has nobody else ever told that story? There are probably lots of others.
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It’s a shame, because I remember it being a good book, but now I wonder if my memory wasn’t colored by all the “amazing” stories (like Cringely being Apple employee #12) that later ended up to not be true at all.
Somehow I knew this would happen. But I was certain it would have been fronted by Roger.
Whelp, as a friend used to say “WRONG AGAIN!”
Oops! Almost forgot . . . while you’re vetting Accidental Empires, could you also vet Mark Twain (Samuel L. Clemens), Abraham Lincoln and Albert Einstein. I’m particularly curious to know if Einstein was responsible for the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. When I was growing up ( if such a thing were possible and if I am human ) doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result was called “attending school,”
https://www.history.com/news/here-are-6-things-albert-einstein-never-said
What result do you think I am expecting, exactly?
I’m just curious. My research skills are rudimentary, at best. On days when I’m bored, I try to track down something to see if its true or at least, reasonably truth adjacent.
Sometimes, I look for old friends I haven’t seen in 40 years or more. Sometimes, I find them. But not always.
Thanks anyway!
I can’t make any claims about the veracity, but it hasn’t aged very well. Read the first chapter and you’ll find out Asians can’t make good computers because they are too grown-up and business-like, and Europeans focus too much on how devices look rather than how they perform. No fault of his — I don’t think he wrote it with the expectation it would still be valid and entertaining 25 years later.
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But it’s always puzzled me why there was never a follow-up. Or 5. How do you go from Accidental Empires to the collection of blog comments and cut-and-paste forum rants that is the IBM book? Maybe he doesn’t care — which, fair enough, but then how do you explain this blog? Been writing it for years and his grasp of today’s technology industry is virtually non-existent, and subjects like this appear to be just padding (75%+ is a copy/paste). To sell text links to casinos for $75 a post?
That’s the other weird thing– there have never been any ads on this site. The traffic is not amazing but it’s not nothing either. Alexa ranks the site at #1,295,303, which would be (very approximately) about 350-400 daily unique visitors. It used to be much higher, of course. Bob has always said that the blog is a way to support and bolster his real career, which is being a technology advisor for startups, or something.
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Which is fine, and makes sense (and adds some context over the years for doing crazy promotions for even crazier ideas, like foil-based hard drives) but it doesn’t explain going off the deep end with the Mineserver debacle and lying about purchasing all the Mach 2.2+ aircraft in the world while posting an obvious Photoshop of someone else’s plane.
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That’s what I can’t figure out. Why would anyone do that? That’s like the opposite of what you should do if you want startup companies to hire you for your expertise.
[Important Up-Front Proviso: what follows are empirical observations only, no provable correlation]
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Cringe’s financial positions + activities are not at all clear from his own descriptions — if his words are even halfway truthful [I am highly skeptical of same], he owns no stocks of any kind, holds no traditional full-time employment [drawing some annoyance from Mrs. Cringe], flies and maintains expensive aircraft, apparently home-schools two of his three kids, and engages in sundry backstage ‘joint ventures,’ including but not limited to orbital launch vehicles [at least twice], storage-drive innovations [at least once], 3-D manufacturing [as part of some San-Fran regional alliance], and the much-talked-about video game platforms.
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He’s under no obligation to disclose any of these to us — except, possibly, as proof against conflict of interest, which is again up to him given the informal grass-roots nature of this blog — but there is, perhaps, the slight sense of fly-by-night huckster [advisor] [co-founder] [investor] [partner], who jumps from one sinking lily pad to the next, or, worse, actually uses claims from Venture #6 to fund and/or influence equally-shaky Ventures #7, #8, and #9. It’s precisely this blurry evasive-linguistic delineation between “I’m a private citizen doing this for fun” vs “I’m a legitimate still-vestigially-relevant tech entity doing modern business” which irks me.
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These are the folks who slowly fade from the sector, because investors just can’t trust or use them anymore.
You know…I’m too lazy to look it up, but as I recall, Cringely started the chapter on Steve Jobs with something like “At such-and-such restaurant sits the most dangerous man in Silicon Valley” and went on to say that most people are doing stuff to get rich, but for Jobs it was like a religious crusade. And keep in mind that at the time he wrote this, Jobs was close to the nadir of his career. Next (or NeXT) had recently released their gorgeous and way-overpriced computer and was floundering. And Pixar was also hemorrhaging money. The smart money at the time was that the guy was a washed-up has-been.
While I completely agree that Facebook *is* Zuckerberg, I don’t think his motives are opaque or tough to suss out.
In 2016 Trump comes out of nowhere to win an election, largely propelled by misinformation spread on Facebook. In 2019 — a year before the next election — Trump and Zuckerberg meet in private and the topic of conversation isn’t shared with the public. In 2020 Facebook seems disinclined to do anything to stop another disinformation campaign led by Trump and Russian bots. And we sit here like bad stage actors scratching our heads and lamenting loudly what on earth the motive could be.
Trump rewards his partners in crime richly.
I am not fan of DJT and I think GreenWyern description of him above is right on the spot but I also think that Facebook influence in 2016 election was/is overblown.
I can be wrong here because I have no social media accounts so I have no idea what was on Facebook at that time but I personally agree with Michael Moore who said that people in Bible Belt were just dissatisfied with the way country was going forward.
There is no middle class any more – this is just another Latin America – you are either rich or poor. As Michael Moore stated the best job in Bible Belt you could get was truck driver and you made $ 35K/year, never at home and what kind of money and what kind of life is that for a family ? At the same time you have Democrats like Clinton, Obama, senators who talk in the name of so called middle class that does not exist any more and they enriched themselves overnight. At least Republicans never claimed something they were not. I think Michael Moor’s view on the 2016 election was spot on.
^^ This is my read as well. Lower middle class America (and neighbors) were presented with a choice between “same old corrupt hypocritical elite” or “rich guy who says he’ll buck the system” — insert whatever spin you like, I’m sure there was plenty — and they (marginally) chose the latter. Future messaging will be more… nuanced. (cf. Democrat debate where three candidates spent ten minutes arguing over who owned fewest houses.)
Yes. Michael Moore basically encapsulated this voter before the election even happened in his one man stage show. It was so accurate that Trump supporters actually cut it into a pro-Trump video with no editing. It resonated with his supporters who heard it. I don’t know what else people need to hear but they’ll still keep going on with it. But it’s been 4 years and this isn’t going to change their mind.
This is where, at the dinner table, someone really cultivated would make a cogent remark about Populares and Optimates.
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As it is, I’ll just drop a link 😉 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populares
One problem Bob, Trumps platform is Twitter not FB.
I remember when John Dvorak jumped the shark about 20 plus years ago when he started writing stuff was factually incorrect and easy to check and after that he was no longer worth reading.
Now the great thing about the internet is you can check primary sources and on pretty much every Trump “lie” pushed by the MSM since 2016 the MSM angle was factually incorrect. Usually an outright fabrication. Add to that the fact the Trump is a Master Troller of the MSM which accounts for most of his combative attitude and you have the current situation where an old time New Deal Democrat like me immediately treats as untrue if not an outright lie every single new Trump Outrage Story the MSM is pushing.
The MSM has done this to itself. In the case of the NYT it was Pinch Sulzberger who destroyed the NYT’s credibility starting in the late 90’s. Which is why circulation / viewership has collapsed. MSM numbers are down up to 80% over the last two decades. There is a very good reason for this. Insulting the opinions and intelligence of the people who buy your product and pandering to the opinions and prejudices of the people who dont and wont. A winning combination.
Bay Area bubble people tend to be least aware of this in my experience. I know lots of Trump voters in SF. Its just they have all leaned to keep very quite as so many strident “progressives” are such nasty obnoxious people when faced with people who dare disagree with them. No matter how politely.
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MSM
.” MSM numbers are down up to 80% over the last two decades.”
Numbers are down because all content they provided became available for free on the internet not because for the reason you want to believe.
Each gas station used to have 20 copies of several newspapers in the morning and they would be sold out around 10 a.m. and now you can not find any gas station with them.
Same with tv stations too. If you really want you can find whatever you want for free on the internet.
Thanks, I should’ve guessed MSM = mainstream media.
With regards newspaper print circulation, which is all that matters for ad-rates, circulation of all the big dailys is down about 70%/80% in the last 20 years. The local SF Chronicle (even thought its now by Hearst) has had a catastrophic collapses in circulation. Not even top 30 now. Unique visitors count and online subs make up little of the loss for the JOA newspapers. Ad revenue has followed circulation down pretty closely.
Of the main newspapers the NYT which has a large trust fund to burn thorough and the WSJ are the only ones that are barely solvent. The WaPo and LA Times are billionaires vanity projects. I think the Chicago Trib is probably the only other top 20 newspaper that might still be around in print in 5 years time.
Of course what really killed newspapers was craigslist taking all the classified revenue but thats another story.
As for network TV news prime time news ratings are down about the same. Online viewing of single stories really does not replace the revenue that could be generated by a single 30 sec even 10 years ago. Local TV news is the same story but unlike the newspapers still has a viable career path so not all the good people have left the business. Which is not true in newspapers.
Not everyone swallows unfiltered news headlines and I consume a lot of none US based media and material so have a different view and atttitude.
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I had a burst last year of UK based “Trumpian” escort clients (as well as fielding discussion forums when subjects outching sex discrimination came up. Without going to deeply into things I suspect most of those with “certain worldviews” had their gripes but I also know for a fact they never bothered reading material which touched on “women’s issues”. The right wing is very adept at “dogwhistles” and polarising platforms which doesn’t make easier. I’m not going to waste my time with people online with attitudes especially those who have swallowed the “blue collar” right wing propoaganda book and carrying grudges. As for escort clients with “Trumpian” attitudes there wasn’t much I could do other than nod along and listen and understand how they had been got to and why they had emotional issues with progressive worldviews. In my view the progressive media in the UK at least has got the major analysis right both of policy and the marketing aspects. Some of the US media have got other things right. Now is it wrong to call Trumpians and their ilk in the UK and elsewhere stupid and vulgar? Perhaps it’s not the best choice of words but when faced with people with such blinkers on and toxic atttiudes you really can lose your patience. The right wing hide behind a smarmy artificially polite facade when it suits them and are quick to lash out and escalate when called “stupid and vulgar” but in all honesty 99% of the toxicity is coming from the extreme right and others on the extremes including the extremes of the left who are as bad as them.
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Thankfully most of my clients aren’t complete pilchards and I take some care to filter out clients who may be so my views may be skewed. Put it this way – when a man is paying to stick his thingy somewhere and cries out in passion like he’s had sex for the first time before falling to the bed exhausted and spent it’s really not the time for two-faced moralising.
Scott Adams posed two fantastic questions yesterday:
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1) if Facebook removes factually incorrect medical information from its own platform, is that censorship?🤐
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2) should Facebook get to decide what’s factually incorrect medical information?🚑
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Even if we assume the best of intentions …
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2a) is Facebook even capable of knowing what’s factually correct medical info? Is anyone, in the fog of uncertainty during a plague of a novel virus?
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Man, this future is WEIRD.
Scott Adams has been a weird, scummy, lying nut job for years.
If his point is that it’s not possible to tell the difference between the truth and lies, between facts and propaganda, between science and conspiracy theories, that’s nonsense.
Trump promoted a video by a woman who believes that fibroid tumors and cysts stem from demonic sperm, that alien DNA is being used in modern medicine, and that scientists are working on a vaccine to prevent people from becoming religious.
Yes, no exaggeration, that’s all in Dr Stella Immanuel’s public statements on YouTube.
…and Scott Adams says that’s fine, because it’s not possible to tell what factually correct medical info is? LMFAO
Yet, there was a time in the history of mankind that people believed the earth was flat, and was created in 6 days. Facts never change, but the acceptance or rejection of them by most people does.
If you’re going to pretend to be on the side of rationality, maybe you should remember when Carl Sagan defended Immanuel Velikovsky, one of the most egregious scientific crackpots in the 20th century history of astronomy.
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Sagan said:
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“The worst aspect of the Velikovsky Affair is not that most aspects of his ideas were wrong or silly or in gross contradiction of the facts. Rather the worst aspect was that some scientists attempted to suppress Velikovsky’s ideas. The suppression of unpopular ideas may be common in religion or in politics, but it is not the path to knowledge and there is no place to it in the endeavor of science. We do not know in advance where fundamental insights will arise or come from about our mysterious and lovely solar system. And our history of the study of our solar system shows clear that ‘accepted’ and ‘conventional’ ideas are often wrong. And that fundamental insights can arise from the most unexpected sources.”
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Here it is, the man himself saying these exact word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MlN7iVIuhk
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It’s sad that a bunch of neckbeards have decided they know better than Carl Sagan and engage in the type of activity he condemned in the name of “good science.”
Amen to this. Exactly what I was recalling while reading the preceding comments. Sagan’s first wife, Lynn Margulis, was arguably considered to be a crackpot (unorthodox) scientist when arguing her symbiogenesis theory, which has now been accepted in mainstream science. Of course, this doesn’t mean that crackpot science will eventually lead to useful science.
@ Vijay that is very true. Those who criticized Velikovsky for the then outdated ideas of “catastrophism” were also wrong on those grounds when things like the giant impact hypothesis began to gain currency. Velikovsky was not the spark of insight that lead to a reconsideration of catastrophism in the formation of the Earth but those who ruled him out on those grounds were wrong too.
Is the word “Moon” banned here too? Having to come up with 5 ways to say something to figure out what comments will slip past the filter is crazy!
Name-calling isn’t helpful. Scott Adams never said her kooky ideas were fine. He asked if it’s appropriate for a social media company to weed out what’s false, especially when – in the ever-shifting factual sands of pandemic – just knowing what’s false, period, is impossible.
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Dreams of witches, demon sex, alien dna, that’s all easy. Now tell me which facts about HCQ + azithromycin + zinc are beyond doubt right or wrong, and that you’re comfortable deciding what everyone else is allowed to see. Or, that you’re comfortable with someone else making that decision. Tell me how comfortable you are that anybody’s knowledge of these things will be unchanged 2 years from now.
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On that note, tell me also what’s proven about masks. Actual hospital data from Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, and the USA gives a murky picture of whether paper or cloth masks work, and show even N95 respirators depend on face shape and correct application (while noting trained physicians only apply them correctly 66% of the time).
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I would point you to Slate Star Codex’s blog post where I learned that last tidbit, but his blog is gone thanks to NYT threatening to dox him. Go figure.
https://slatestarcodex.com/
Huh. Blog posts are present. Nice. Thanks!
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Alrighty then, here are the posts for you, @GreenWyvern … it’s a lot to process.
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The main post: “Face Masks: Much More Than You Wanted To Know” from March 23
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Very long, very very very well documented, and the short version is “masks probably work some of the time” (with lots of data to support this wishy washy conclusion).
See also part III of this one: “A Failure, But Not Of Prediction” from April 14
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One highlight from the second link – a group of doctors in a medical journal went into PAINSTAKING detail to discuss the lack of RCTs (randomised controlled trials) involving parachute use, therefore – by medical standards – the lifesaving ability of parachutes IS NOT PROVEN. For good reason – they’ve seen “common sense” ideas fail far too many times, and there are too many quacks out there selling a special vitamin cocktail or colloidal silver colonic.
It’s a tongue-in-cheek joke of course, but one that points at solid facts over how the medical establishment avoids “common sense ideas” like the plague (pun intended) and sometimes go too far in the other direction of demanding irrefutable evidence.
@granville
Sure. Nobody is saying we should take down Stella Immanuel’s videos, or those of flat earthers, or whatever.
But she is not president of the United States. She is not in a position of power, and deliberately giving out misleading public health advice in the middle of a major pandemic while 1000+ people a day (and rising) in her country are dying. She is not cynically promoting lies to boost her chances of re-election, regardless of how many lives are lost.
There’s freedom of speech, and then there’s shouting ‘Fire!’ in a crowded movie theater.
Brother, they are literally saying that. That was precisely what Howard was referring to.
It’s Trump’s endorsement of her video and promoting it to his followers that’s the problem, not her nonsense video in itself.
> that’s the problem
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Okay, you’re talking about the problem you have. That’s great. That’s not what Howard or the rest of us are talking about, which is what you were replying to. When you say “Nobody is saying we should take down Stella Immanuel’s videos” that is exactly what we’re talking about. People are not only saying they we should take down Stella Immanuel’s videos. They are doing so.
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When you say “that’s the problem,” you’re not talking about the issue Howard brought up which is being widely discussed. You’re talking about your problem with it. More power to you but we’re talking about a video that was taken down, responding to the people who are saying we should taking it down, and explaining why we have a problem with it.
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FYI, I haven’t even watched it. I doubt I will. Doesn’t matter.
It’s America’s problem.
When deliberate lies and the promotion of conspiracy theories cause harm to others, they should not be protected as free speech.
You may not have a problem with Trump promoting pseudo-science, and you can split hairs to justify it as much as you like, but you need to consider carefully your ideas about the limits of free speech.
I think we need to be a bit careful about appealing to Carl Sagan’s memory so that we can promote videos about alien DNA and dream sex with demons, that are already being promoted by the President of the United States. Sagan, god rest his soul, would never in a million years have imagined that kind of situation could ever exist.
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Sagan was correct to criticize colleagues for trying to suppress Velikovsky’s work. His reaction was to instead dismantle Velikovsky’s arguments, piece by piece, by showing how they repeatedly violated multiple laws of physics, and even basic sanity checks. He used mathematics to do this. I read his debunking and it was exquisite and devastating.
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But how do you mathematically disprove claims of alien DNA and dream sex with demons? In this case, Sagan would have argued instead, as he often did, that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. He wrote quite eloquently that you can’t just say that invisible pink unicorns exist in your garage, that you have to prove their existence, and if you can’t provide any evidence, then you must withdraw your claim.
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None of this is saying that the crazy doctor’s videos should be wiped from the Earth, but it also doesn’t mean that Facebook, or any other company, necessarily has to host them or promote them. If Facebook doesn’t want to host a video, you can put it on YouTube. Or Vimeo. Or any of a hundred other video hosting sites, or even self-hosting as a last resort. The cries of “censorship” don’t really hold true here. These sites are paying for storage and bandwidth in order to host videos. They already have terms of service and can and do pull down videos for violating them.
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The “Disinformed to Death” article that GreenWyvern posted is really interesting, and everyone should read it. A pandemic is not the time to allow misinformation to spread freely. Societies, as they always have done, need to decide where the limits are.
> you need to consider carefully your ideas about the limits of free speech.
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That totally doesn’t sound ominous at all, GreenWyvern.
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You need to carefully consider that I don’t give a fuck what words make you afraid.
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> Sagan, god rest his soul, would never in a million years have imagined that kind of situation could ever exist.
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Jeremy: Oh my goodness, I disagree with that entirely. Velikovsky’s book was a phenomenon.
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Sagan did what everyone should do: rationally dismantle pseudo-scientific arguments. He devoted WAY more time to demolishing Velikovsky’s Worlds In Collision than anyone could have expected.
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I don’t know how to tell you guys this, but suppressing ideas gives them the cachet of cool, forbidden knowledge. It’s not a good thing. Centuries later we have people attempting to reconstruct pagan religions (ironically mostly from the descriptions of the people who suppressed them) because the occult is fascinating. This is what happened with Velikovsky: his ideas were demolished, yet the act of suppression led his supporters to compare him to Giordano Bruno.
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Making wrong ideas into occult ideas is a dangerous tactic that has massive potential to backfire.
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> None of this is saying that the crazy doctor’s videos should be wiped from the Earth, but it also doesn’t mean that Facebook, or any other company, necessarily has to host them or promote them. If Facebook doesn’t want to host a video, you can put it on YouTube. Or Vimeo. Or any of a hundred other video hosting sites, or even self-hosting as a last resort.
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For clarity, it was deleted off Twitter, Facebook, Instagram (including right off the profiles of people who reposted it, including Madonna) and their website revoked their hosting. This was not merely one platform. It was nearly all of them.
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Note Carl Sagan didn’t appeal to libertarian principles here. He didn’t say “Government suppression.” He was talking about scientific suppression – by definition, non-state interference. He was specifically speaking about OUR attempts to suppress.
I wasn’t aware that there was an attempt to remove the videos from that many platforms. I’m still don’t think it’s the worst decision in the world, though. You can’t stop Trump from saying stupid things and promoting stupid ideas from stupid people. But perhaps the leadership behind these platforms were able to suddenly agree with each other that some stupid ideas have a very real cost in terms of human life when we are in the middle of a pandemic. Velikovsky’s crazy theories were never going to kill anyone. These ones just might.
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I’m not saying I agree with all their editorial decisions–far from it. But occasionally the rallying cry of “we can’t censor any speech because then it will just become ‘forbidden’ and thus more popular!” is misguided. As a society, we set limits on things. We have to. If you allow absolutely everything, then the worst people in society will abuse that tolerance and flood the airwaves with hatred and incitements to violence.
Zuckerberg pretty much dumped himself in it. Emails have been discovered where he was plotting to buy companies to remove competition before they got too big and also mop up the competititors who may follow. We all know this is why monopolies like Facebook and Google and Microsoft etcetera pay over the odds for competitors. It is worth ten times or a hundred times more to them to do this even if the initial offer sounds ridiculously overvalued.
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/29/21345723/facebook-instagram-documents-emails-mark-zuckerberg-kevin-systrom-hearing
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There are also lots of women who feel they suckered themselves by voting for Trump and now see through all his lies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/29/women-who-voted-trump-who-regret-decision
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Who hand on heart works for people like either of this pair? Who? You have to be a major cretin or emotionally messed up.
I think this is an interesting opinion piece. I would move Zuckerberg over to any other social media platform at present. Each of the corporations have gotten rather big for their britches and might benefit from being trimmed down just a little bit.
The New York Review of Books has an excellent and thoughtful article about disinformation in politics in the US. It’s well worth reading.
Disinformed to Death
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2020/08/20/fake-news-disinformed-to-death/
It’s interesting how the thoughtless and very conservative minds are showing their hands in this topic. There comes a point in life where dealing with this level of persistant stupidity gets to be rather too much and you tune out. The thing is I don’t just find this kind of mindset controlling but also very lazy and boring.
@granville, so you think there should be no limits to free speech?
Suppose a cult leader gathers a crowd of followers and stands outside your house shouting, ‘Kill @granville, he’s a traitor! He’s a reptilian alien spreading covid-19! Burn down his house!’
I’m sure you would have no problem with that, because they have an absolute right to free speech. And you never know, they may be right. 🙂
Incitement to violence is not protected speech.
“@granville, so you think there should be no limits to free speech?”
I don’t see where @granville said anything like that. Perhaps you can enlighten me …
You have no idea what free speech is. Educate yourself a little. Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
GreenWyvern: “you need to consider carefully your ideas about the limits of free speech”
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Granville: “That totally doesn’t sound ominous at all, GreenWyvern. You need to carefully consider that I don’t give a fuck what words make you afraid.”
I have found some people can showboat or become awkward or stick their heads in the sand when something doesn’t effect them. I have also seen these same people do a 180 when it does. The odd one will continue with their zealotry. Part of my job is marketing and fielding customer enquiries. I’ve had a few put their foot in it or try any one of a number of timewasting dodges. As much as I like to put the effort in and talk things through or work with people ultimately time is money as well as being my time I could use with something else.
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As per Jeremys comments about drawing a responsible line I decline lots of potential clients. They either want something I’m not selling or there is something off about them or I’m not in the mood. Accepting business just for the money is almost always a mistake.
Facebook rules also depend on the employees that it has. As in any large company, small bosses can set the tone, and this is not the case in scientific terms. Anyone can have a personal opinion and a small boss of a large company may dislike with you.
What is wrong with this blog ?
What kind of bullshit is this Bob ? Are you banning people now from posting comments here ?
He isn’t banning anyone from posting. There is, however, a hidden list of “banned words” that will make your post mysteriously fail to post. There is no feedback–no indication that you’ve done anything wrong, nothing at all– the page just reloads as if you had done nothing.
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The list of banned words is arbitrary and can change at any time.
Kickstarter Kickstarter Kickstarter. K___S______. K___S______.
Beetlejuice, Beetlejiuce, Beetlejuice
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“IT’S SHOWTIME!”
I am definitely banned that is why I have to use variation of this name every single time again.
Bob loves North Korea. He needs to change his name to Kim Jong Cringely go to North Korea and do threesomes there with Dear Leader (Kim Jong whatever) and Kim Jong Rodman.
What is this ? I have to quit my job and guess what words he does not like ?
My comments are PG-kindergarten and that is not enough ?
Testing a post as user HAL 9000 — note I am *not* the typical user of this handle, simply trying a text string.
Now trying the same user name without the space.
What happened to Cringelys set of “last predictions”? They shrivelled up pretty fast.
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From time to time I have laughed when with a client due to the absurdity of things. Spontaneous and unexplained laughter can put a client off. This is one reason why I never do BDSM. There was also this time when I was lounging provocatively on a hotel bed as a client returned with some wine. I felt like such an idiot. He was such a sweetie too.
Man, that seems like decades ago. Let’s review:
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Prediction #1: IBM sells a division and disappears into Red Hat. Didn’t happen. The reverse is happening instead.
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Prediction #2: The Deep State has a last laugh at Trump. Didn’t happen. The political calculus remains the same: no matter what Trump does, no matter what is revealed, McConnell won’t ever repudiate him because then he would lose his seat.
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Prediction #3: COVID-19 will suck like 9/11. Well, it was far worse, but yeah.
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Prediction #4: COVID-19 will kill a ton of startups. Yeah, especially startups founded on Photoshops of stolen pictures of airplanes.
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Prediction #5: 2020 brings the death of IT. Didn’t happen. If anything the opposite happened, as IT was suddenly super necessary to keep the office running remotely, deal with VPN issues, etc.
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Prediction #6: Not just the end of IT, the end of IT contractors. Didn’t happen. Not entirely clear why it would happen.
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So, Cringely was two for six, or 33% accuracy, and the two “successes” were just saying that COVID-19 would suck, which was like, duh.
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Looking forward to the 2021 predictions!
You are into it so when did he predict Apple to become hedge fund ?
Was it in 2019 or 2018 ?
That was his 2019 prediction #1, which he posted in February of that year.
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It started out as a “prediction” that Apple was going to do what it was already doing (offering its own financing on the iPhone, rolling out the Apple credit card), and then just right at the end veered into “Apple is going to become a hedge fund! Yeeeaaaaaaaaaagh!” which of course never happened, and certainly not in 2019.
It will NEVER happen. Security and Exchange Commission will NEVER give them license to do it.
From the NYT:
What Years of Emails and Texts Reveal About Your Friendly Tech Companies
The EU is having a go at Google for taking over Fitbit. They don’t believe Googles “assurances” nor their arguments they are not a monoply because it’s about hardware not software blah blah. In other words Googles lawyers not only have got lazy and are just copy-pasting tired arguments which worked in the US in the past (which has a different legal environment) but they also assume the EU is asleep on the job.
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Hah!
Hello from one of those Monsanto engineers who spent 18 months of his life chasing down Intel’s dust problem. Your story is 100% correct. I saw the photo’s from the PI. There’s an expression that has served me well in life. I borrowed it from Wilford Brimley who passed away this week. The saying: “It’s the right thing to do.” If you know your business has been hijacked by state actors and is being used to spread misinformation that hurts people, what’s the right thing to do? The answer isn’t a business decision. One can hide behind a legal argument. Many big companies face a crisis that could jeopardize the business. Many times that crisis is due to the company failing to do the right thing. If they don’t figure this out, Facebook’s crisis is coming…
Just wondering if there are any articles out there that talk about this. It DOES seem like it’s something that would have been caught pretty quickly. But I’ve worked in large corporations and know how the bureaucracy can make things…goofy…
It seems some other guys are wondering that too. Link:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/48194/did-intel-have-low-chip-yields-due-to-a-clerk-hand-checking-blank-wafers
One person commented : “On the website Cringley says that this story is taken from his book ‘Accidental Empires’ “
It’s a little fishy that we get this mysterious “John” who just shows up and says “OH YES CRINGELY’S STORY IS 100% TRUE UH HUH I WAS A MONTSANTO ENGINEER FOR 8 MILLION YEARS”.
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I seem to recall another no-last-name “John” in the comments a few years back saying “OH YES IT’S ME JOHN AND I TOTALLY KNOW THAT CRINGELY’S HOUSE BURNED DOWN” in a thread full of evidence proving otherwise.
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There’s always a “John” out there ready to provide “proof”.
And for another example of how one person can make a similar difference, look at Ginni Rometty.
For those who do not follow slashdot.org here is an interesting article:
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/08/07/1951233/why-we-have-a-tiktok-problem
It seems Facebook kisses the ass of Chinese Communist Party first and after that Trump’s ass whatever it takes to achieve their goal and keep them off monopoly rules.
This “story” is some weak tea.
This is just Facebook’s version of what Jack Dorsey is doing. What Trump says on Facebook is important because Facebook is important. Never mind the fact that POTUS has a large taxpayer funded apparatus for saying whatever he wants to say. If Facebook held trump to the same standards as everyone else, he’d never post on Facebook. The ad dollars from the eyeballs he brings would just go to Twitter instead.
It’s stupid to think trump’s Facebook posts are about Zuck demonstrating strength. It’s about him demonstrating weakness.
@Jeremy
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I won’t name the company but one company within the broad tech sphere was hitting roadblocks and whenthe pitchforks were out a tame journalist was brought in to say “Yes I have seen the vaourware and it’s real. Honest!” It turned out if not to be a pack of lies but a very tilted exaggeration. I had doubts at the time and called them out a bit close for their liking. The truth took until after the company collapsed to be known but yes their friend had been lying.
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I’m a bit doubtful of this “John” too.
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Post #metoo and following on from Magnum reappraising its photo library I also have concerns about Cringelys cruder history and his infamous naked family christmas cards.
I think this is an interesting opinion piece. I would move Zuckerberg over to any other social media platform at present. Each of the corporations have gotten rather big for their britches and might benefit from being trimmed down just a little bit.
Zuckerberg is great. In his place, I would have done the same. And any of the above unsubscribed.
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Bob, you’re wrong. Zuck is a naive, uneducated clod who was caught by surprise when Russia took over his platform, but he is now way too invested in the profits that propaganda generate to stop. He was too stupid to stop it in the first place, and now he’s too rich to risk the stock price. He’s not wielding power for the sake of wielding it. Zuck has neither brains nor balls: he has painted himself into a corner, but he has no awareness of the damage he’s causing, and he doesn’t have the courage to act on behalf of the investors, or on the behalf of society.
What if Zuckerberg is being blackmailed?
Considering his immorality and all scandals about Facebook (including those we don’t know yet), it’s clear that he has built his empire by playing dirty and asking favors, so it’s very plausible that someone in the Trump administration is in the position to blackmail him…
Anonymous15 November 2020 at 16:45
WikiFreaks – Racism Today
https://issuu.com/albertsmithirishindependent
Britains Secret anti semitic publishers
WIKIFREAKS NANO PAGE
How about calling yourselves microlinux?