I’m sorry this year’s predictions seem to this point to mainly have to do with policies rather than products, but I don’t get to make the future, just predict it, and in this case I’m predicting that immigration reform will have little actual effect on H-1B visa abuse.
For those of you who aren’t already asleep I’ll start with the Cliff Notes version of the H-1B issue, which I have written about ad nauseam as you can read here (notice there are three pages of columns, so dig deep). H-1B is a U.S. immigration program to allow 65,000 foreign workers into the USA each year for up to six years, which means that at any moment there are almost 400,000 of these folks working at the desk next to yours. Some people claim that H-1Bs take jobs better filled by U.S. citizens and some feel that H-1Bs are essential for the functioning of technology industries that would otherwise be devoid of needed talent. I am clearly on the side of the former folks who see H-1Bs as a scam intended to take jobs away from, well, me.
Few people who like to express opinions about the H-1B program actually understand it. That’s in part because both industry and government tend to lie a lot. Lying in this case isn’t strictly a Trump thing, either: the Obama Administration lied about H-1Bs, too. One lie commonly told about H-1Bs is that the visas are for geniuses whose unparalleled abilities mean we as a nation absolutely must have them working here. That’s not true. There IS such a visa but it’s an O-1 Extraordinary Ability Worker Visa, not an H-1B. If these H-1B folks were actually so accomplished they’d come to work here as O-1s, which are unlimited in number.
Rather than being supremely accomplished, H-1Bs are just supposed to be competent and able to do jobs for which U.S. citizen candidates can provably not be found. Say a company needs an IT specialist, for example, and finds that it can’t somehow recruit any U.S. citizens for the position despite extensive outreach and advertising. In that case if a comparably skilled H-1B candidate is available they can get the job. The more common trend, however, is for a company to really prefer H-1Bs over U.S. citizens because they tend to work for less money and absolutely work for lower benefits, so zealous human resource people, often working with consultants, manage to write job descriptions that preclude U.S. citizens and/or bury the announcements such that qualified U.S. candidates never know they even exist. This, too, is a form of lying.
One more lie is that we even have a shortage of technical workers (this is what the Obama Administration liked to claim). What we have is a shortage of technical workers who will accept shit wages.
Another mistake that often comes up in H-1B discussions is the difficulty H-1Bs have in getting green cards (permanent resident status) or applying for citizenship. Some critics think H-1Bs are being discriminated against in these regards. And lo, this is true, but that’s because the H-1B visa program has always been for candidates not on a permanent residence or citizenship path. It’s not like these people come to work in the USA thinking they’ll become citizens or get green cards at some point: the program specifically and always has precluded that. Want to become a U.S. citizens? Then try for a different visa like an EB-1,2,3,4 or 5.
Immigration reform is coming, we’re told, and the Trump campaign said a lot about H-1Bs, especially about eliminating the lottery system that is used to allocate those 65,000 yearly slots. About half of those slots have gone to foreign outsourcing companies, especially from India.
Once the H-1B reform legislation appears I think we can expect the lottery to go away in favor of a system based strictly on worker qualifications and the dire need to fill the position, which sounds egalitarian and terrific, eh? Probably not.
You see the point of this H-1B reform will be mainly to get rid of the Indian outsourcers so their H-1B slots can be used by American companies hiring directly. It’s for this reason that the Indian companies are hiring U.S. citizens as fast as they can. And the U.S. companies are preparing, too, by practicing all those techniques that will allow them to appear to seek qualified domestic candidates and yet not find them. Toward that end, for example, I’m hearing that one big company that rhymes with IBM is starting to use recruiters whose native language is not English. This is not to say that non-native speakers can’t learn wonderful English or be consummate H.R. professionals, but the track record of big companies that rhyme with IBM is not good in this area.
For all their billions in profits (and billions more in repatriated profits) these companies, which include biggies like Apple and Google, just can’t seem to bring themselves to pay market rates for labor if they can wriggle out of doing so. The Trump Administration sure isn’t going to make them do it, either. And for these reasons I predict that the H-1B visa program may change in 2018 but its problems will remain pretty much the same.
The one simple solution that I’ve considered is, instead of pretending to make the companies go through hoops to prove that they can’t find workers, simply require that any H-1B be compensated at a rate 50% higher than market for that position.
That is not a horrible idea but instead of going to the employee it should be an added payroll tax. That way the company pays as much for an H1-B worker as a higher waged US worker but the extra tax would benefit everyone.
At that point most companies would prefer to get their monies worth and have the US worker and H1-B’s would only be used when really needed.
Surely this would simply depress the market rate for the job.
I like Jame solution with one twist that would make it legal. Require the company trying to fill the H-1B position pay an additional 25% payroll tax (Social Security Taxes are 15% and is a similar tax) to be put into the FAFSA system (for college tuition awards) to provide additional scholarships for the STEM programs. Secondly, require the company to comply with the requirement that they pay the H-1B a rate comparable to the national average pay for the same position in the US (not the state of the employment). This would provide a legal incentive to truly attempt to locate local talent.
College STEM programs are worthless. There is an intractable gap between what people study in university Computer Science programs and what IT companies actually want to hire people for. If you doubt this, do any quick survey of IT hiring managers for what technical skills they are currently hiring for, then see if you can find a single university program at any respectable university that actually has degree-program classes for those skills.
I think you’ve entirely misunderstood what a university education is for. Its purpose is, or should be, to teach students how to apply critical thinking to any task within their chosen problem domain, to test the student’s depth of learning by requiring them to undertake research and to present the results for evaluation. Additionally, for technical degrees, students should be taught how to understand and apply the scientific method. Universities should build on what a student has learned at school.
Any good school system should teach its students three basic skills: how to learn, how to read and write clear, concise English, the use of basic mathematical skills and numeracy. If they have been taught how to learn, then acquiring facts becomes little more than stamp collecting and is something anybody should be able to do by themselves.
If somebody wants to learn a specific technical skill, they should go to a polytechnic, night school or other institution that’s set up to teach specific skills. Or do an apprenticeship.
+1000
The “vocational sation” of uni courses is exactly why we find ourselves in this situation.
In my opinion, I think at least half of my college/university education was worthless. For a different and interesting perspective on this everyone should read the recent book by Bryan Caplan “The Case against Education”.
The hiring managers are the worthless ones in this scenario. The purpose of a University education in liberal arts and science is to teach one how to become an expert in something.
Conflating science education with engineering training is a mistake: an engineering curriculum is 4 or 5 years spent drilling applied methods with as little theory as can be gotten away with to get the point across. A science curriculum starts having slots the student must fill in no later than the 3rd year. The engineer is being trained in their field. The scientist is learning how to become an expert.
I understand that many engineering specialties can make productive use of new graduate hires within weeks. In software development (meaning the kind of work that involves writing executable code to implement algorithms to produce results), I expect even a competent new graduate hire to need at least a year before they’re really producing, and 2 to work without supervision.
I like your idea. Even if STEM education is junk, it is politically acceptable. It could be the key to make a change palatable and get the bill made.
One reform I would like to see is the lottery changed to a salary based system. The first visa goes to the company offering the highest salary. It is fair, if you need a specialist, you should be willing to pay.
The second thing the government could do, right now, is make companies put the job description, pay, and so on into a database. The database can be indexed by Indeed, Monster, and all the online job search sites. These jobs would show up online, where people are actually looking, not just an ad in an IEEE magazine no one reads anymore.
Good idea, but it won’t really change anything. It will still be 400k extra people competing for salaries. If that happens to be the right number, then companies will not need to raise any salaries. And of course they are asking for more visas.
Companies are currently not required to pay the matching portion of SS and FICA tax for H1-b employees.
That’s a savings of 7.45% right there.
The challenge with US companies hiring H1B directly instead of going through the big outsourcers is, how would they actually realize cost savings? As direct-hire employees, H1B’s would be under the same benefits plan and salary range as other employees, unless they tried to put them on a different tier, which would be risky. As opposed to the current arrangement, bringing them on as consultants / temps through outsourcers at a flat rate, where the US company is insulated from the benefits / pay those consultants are actually getting, as well as legal benefits that added layer provides.
The savings aren’t direct like that. If you have an H1-B then you can’t quit. (More precisely, if you do quit then you have 10 days to find an alternate H1-B company sponsor, or you have to leave the country.) So the employer doesn’t have to treat you well, doesn’t have to give you pay rises, can give you work and conditions that American employees would not accept etc. They can also promise path to green cards and then drag their feet making the process as slow as possible. Many find the conditions similar to indentured servitude.
I’ve been working in IT since 1981. Arrived in the US in 1990 on a H1-B, so have looked at this from both sides now. As an H1-B I earned about half of a US salary. As soon as I got a green card, I left the company I was indentured to, and doubled my salary. H1-Bs have never been paid ‘prevailing rates’, as the law requiring it has never been enforced.
As Mark Langenhoeven says – take away the indentured leverage, and that would fix a lot of H1-B abuses.
In 1990 I went down to the Social Security office, to get a number issued so I could pay FICA taxes. The nice lady at the counter asked, “are you a circus clown ? the last H1-B was for a clown”. Highly-skilled indeed.
I’ve been looking for a job for a few months now. Headhunters with Indian-sounding names have been a bane of the industry for a couple of decades now. And I can independently verify that they are now recruiting for a company whose name rhymes with IBM, but so far they seem to be limited to the 💩 show that is Services. The z operating system folks still are US-based.
I have been surprised at the actual number of non-Indian names with emails written in American English and syntax that have contacted me during this time. I’ll say that the pendulum is swinging back at this time away from 100% subcontinent staffing.
But the crux of Bob’s argument is spot on: Americans won’t work for 💩 wages. And many that I have been offered have been so low for my experience and knowledge that they aren’t even worth the seconds to reply politely “no thanks”.
H1-B is corporate welfare, it’s that simple. The program should be abolished.
I’ve been outsource by Canadians, Israelis, Indians, Slovakians, Belgians, Germans, and Portuguese. About five times now, I reckon. And I’m no slacker: I survive the first couple of rounds of staffing cuts, but eventually your number is up.
I’m not bitter towards these other people who now have opportunities they wouldn’t have had they not worked in the U.S. Instead, I am disillusioned about a government that is supposed to be “by the People, for the People”. Voters have to quit buying the crap that anything that impacts corporate profit is going to necessarily reduce jobs. Profit is derived from people who have money to spend.
One issue, though. No high-tech company I’ve worked for (and I’ve worked for more than a few) has offered anything other than exactly the same compensation and benefits package to H1B workers that I’ve received. They may or may not have been lower on the pay/grade scale but they were on the same pay and grade scale as everyone else and subject to the same raises and bonuses.
My boss once gave me a stack of resumes and told me to pick out the Asian ones as he could get them cheaper.
Let’s get to the underlying problem. Big companies bribe or coerce Congress for any number of undeserved benefits that also harm the average person in the US. If you don’t have the riches or power to bribe or coerce Congress, your future is looking very dismal.
Personally I think that:
1. The election campaigning system needs to be revised to greatly decrease the money required.
2. The act of bribing or coercing Congress for undeserved benefits needs to be severely punished. To me it is the same as treason since it prevents the proper functioning of government.
3. The top dogs in big companies need to be sent to jail and personally fined when they commit massive fraud such as the 2008 real estate mortgage collapse.
@Mark Stephens – and the Mineserver comments aren’t going away either
In the contrary, they seem to be disappearing since I stopped Rogers pocket money.
Make a change so that an H-1B holder can change jobs at a moment’s notice without relying on an employer to do anything. That sounds counter-intuitive but then the employer wont be able to coerce these employees to do anything. Once that indentured servitude leverage goes away then the H-1B holder has to be treated as well as the local employee.
Suddenly – no incentive to hire the H-1B unless they’re really better than what you can find locally. This means all this junk of checking to see if there are local people available and verifying degrees and experience all goes away.
I believe that part of the H1-B process is a $10,000 application/sponsor fee.
Isn’t the number of H-1B visas issued each year 85,000?
20,000 reserved for graduate degree graduates.
Does that mean only local (American) graduates?
The simplest reform is to award H1-Bs as an auction rather than a random lottery today. This way the higher-paid offers at Google et al would win over the bottom-feed body-shop outsourcers.
The article is incorrect, BTW: H1-B holders are perfectly able to apply for a Green Card. usually they need to be sponsored by their employer to qualify, but there are no restrictions against H1 holders applying. Perhaps Bob is confusing this with the J1 student visa where in some specialties like medicine, J1 holders have to return home for two years before they can apply (in order to alleviate the brain-drain aspect of having foreign students come to the US).
There is no restriction against applying, but the intent is for the visa to go to people who are not planning on applying.
For example, embassies will also reject applicants for tourist visas if the official feels they are planning to not return. You are asked to provide evidence of family connections, property, etc.
Don’t forget Facebook.
After working with HR a few years back, I made up a new saying:
There are many ways of not telling the truth
Lying is merely the most obvious.
I’m stealing that 🙂
Me too!
Me three! That one’s on a par with “Lies, dammed lies & Statistics”!
I work in a building that is about 80% occupied with technical workers my company has brought into the country with H-1B visas. They are doing jobs that American employees used to do.While I do not like this, the fact is that there are smart and well educated people in the world willing to do this IT work for less pay than U.S. workers will accept. And so my company has three options: 1) hire only U.S. IT workers and make the company non-competitive due to high cost of labor, which might drive our company out of business, 2) outsource the IT work entirely to India (in this case, all of the H-1B workers in my building are from India), or 3) bring the workers here on H-1B visas where at least they are paying U.S. taxes and putting a sizable chunk of the money they earn back into the U.S. economy for food, living expenses, transpiration, etc. I have to confess that I think option 3 is the best.
But is that true? Can they really send it away? What they do is have so many Indians here and they direct Indians back there.
Heh:
Coalminers and workers in other dying industries need to be retrained so they can get high-paying tech jobs.
American tech workers make too much, to be competitive we have to import techies who will work for lower wages.
Catch-22 is already taken, which one is this?
The key thing that most stories about H1Bs miss is this:
A company is NOT required to interview even 1 US citizen to fill an H1B job. This means they can hire without local competition. We do not know if there is a shortage of talent if they do not even interview US citizens. This is bias and discrimination.
They can hire H1Bs without any attention to EEOC laws. They can hire all one race, religion, sex without considering any other candidates.
Even if a US citizen would take the salary offered, they are basically not allowed to compete in an open market for jobs slated for H1Bs at a company.
And like a bunch of hypocrites, most women-in-tech groups will not advocate for H1B reform although it effects women in tech a lot as analyst, project manager roles, and other jobs are pulled out of the market for US citizens and reserved for H1Bs or their spouses, without competition with local candidates. Unfortunately, these women in tech groups are complicit in the discrimination by actively shushing and controlling and shaming any chat about it, particularly by their older members, even when members report their own personal stories and say its an important issue for them.
But then, women-in-tech groups have never led any change and were for decades ignoring the MeToo issues of sexual harassment. You hear them weakly chiming in on sexual harassment now, but it is pulling them by the hairs. All of the effective activists are NOT representatives of these women-in-tech or STEM groups. African American in tech groups have been the only groups addressing the issue of H1B bias. You cannot fail to notice that the drop of percentage of women in tech that began in the 90’s rides in tandem with the rise of H1Bs.
For tech people at entry level or older, when ageism creeps in, contract work was a way to get a job, but when a corporation only uses H1B agencies to supply contract labor, the US citizens are shut out from competing. Again, how can you say there is a shortage when you don’t allow the local citizen to compete without bias for the job?
Most of the talk about H1Bs is about wage. But this is really at the heart about being able to compete without bias for that local job. The H1B issue is not like Mexicans ‘takin my job, that I didn’t want and wouldn’t have. You aren’t even allowed to interview for the H1B job or even take the “lower” wage.
Why do you completely ignore the changes that have already been made?
1) Obama illegally gave EAD to spouse of H1B(H2 or H3 visaholder while dependent is H3 or H4).
This had the effect of adding potentially another 100K to the employment pool.
2) OPT limits were changed.
3) A vague memo was issued about how merely having a computer degree is not enough. Companies must now show that the skill level matches the specific job. At the time, some places in India reported it as ‘Trump Admin cancels H1B visas’.
I think the last one will have no effect because cheaters cheat.
Although only temporary workers, H-1B visa holders are supposed to have SSI and Medicare withheld from their pay. Supposed to since some of the foreign outsourcing firms don’t actually make the payments to the Government. I am in favor of H-1B visas being provided as an auction. To me a true open auction would set a fair market price for an H-1B visa.
I believe the lottery in Trump’s sights is the “diversity visa lottery”, [*] not some lottery associated with the H1B system. The whole point of the diversity lottery is to even out the immigration system by admitting people who have nothing more than their cultural heritage to bring to the table. The diversity lottery has literally nothing to do with merit, unlike the H1B which at least theoretically is supposed to have something to do with merit.
[*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa
Yes, Cringely isn’t very knowledgeable about this subject either. Makes me wonder if all his IBM stuff is made up.
Companies also put in way more applications than they actually need just to make sure they have a chance at getting some of the H1B permits.
MikeN states what I also have read that the spouses come also and so it really doubles that number and they are additional supply to the job market.
I worked at a big company and I saw going some strange practices with some of the Indians. I worked with contracts and had a supplier call me because of an issue that came up where an Indian manager at my company in the US was trying to pressure her to only hire Indian candidates for the positions here in the US for some contract positions. As we discussed what he was trying to get her to do was illegal. I told her I would take care of it and immediately called HR. The HR rep took care of the situation and “educated” this manager about US employment laws.
Outside of the H1Bs, one of things they do not talk about is that within the Indian culture, a person such as an Indian PM will bring on some Indian consultants. They have an under the table agreement where he pays the consultant $80 per hour and then the consultant pays him back $10 per hour or whatever they negotiate. This is totally acceptable in India and they bring the practice over here. The only time you find out about it is when the person paying the person who hired them have a dispute and then it bubbles up but is rare you hear about it. The PM or whoever did the hiring brings on several people who are paying him back under the table and he is getting all this money tax free. I have no idea how often it goes on but it explains the incentive to hire only Indians and made me wonder if this is what the Indian manager at my company was trying to do. After having seen this in action, I wonder now when I see an Indian PM or some other person come in and start hiring a bunch of contractors that are only from India if this is what is going on. A corporate investigator confirmed to me that he had also run across this scenario.This was several years ago.
Yes they do that. Or they will be owning the company themselves thru intermediaries that is providing the staffers.
In my experience, the people online who complain about H1B are the same people who complain about restrictions on immigration from Mexico and elsewhere. As long as its someone else’s job that’s affected and they save a little money on gardeners and housekeepers, it’s fine with them.
[…] https://www.cringely.com/2018/01/31/2018-prediction-5-h-1b-visa-problem-will-not-go-away/ […]
I’m to the point where I ignore emails and LinkedIn requests from Indian recruiters. I worked for Wipro here in the US and there was constant pressure to move the workload to the offshore component, and they would frequently bring in Indians to ‘train’ by shoulder-surfing their US counterparts, which would then be laid off a month or two later. Wipro and these other companies build their own ‘universities’ where they train massive numbers of people in skills like Node.js, Mongo, Python or whatever the flavor of the month is. That way they can claim and present to a client a large pool of ‘qualified’ bodies. Our universities train programmers or managers, not MCSEs or CCNAs or even CISSPs. The local community colleges have some great programs in some of the ‘hot’ technologies. But in Chandler, Arizona, home of several large Intel facilities, a GM tech center and dozens of data centers, Indian markets and restaurants are growing in number.
I’ve been in IT long enough to see the industry crash twice. Back when experienced coders and PhDs would have taken burger wages just to get enough money for gas and the electric bill, they were still unemployed…and the H1B hires went on.
For that matter, you can “outsource” work within the USA. Back in the 1980s several large software companies set up subsidiaries in Alabama and Mississippi. If you wanted a job, with the company, you moved and accepted the local pay scale. (in the days before e-mail and nearly-free telephony, it also helped keep your skilled workers away from headhunters)
There’s a problem here, but it’s *not* – or at least not entirely – money.
Merhaba değerli takipçilerimiz ,
Yeni adresimizde en son tasarlanan kiralık kaftan modelleri ile sizlerin hizmetinizdeyiz. Sadece İstanbul’un değil Türkiye’nin en geniş kaftan tasarım modellerini üreten firmamız ile yeni yıl siz değerli gelin adaylarına uğur getirecektir. Amacımız müşteri memnuniyeti ile sektörün bir numaralı firması olmanın yanında hızlı, güvenilir ve müşteri memnuniyeti de öncelikli prensibimizdir.
İstanbul Anadolu yakasında bulunan mağazamıza ulaşım çok yönlü olup web sitemizden adresimize ulaşabilirsiniz.
Kaliteli kaftan mı arıyorsunuz o halde doğru adrestesiniz…
http://bagdatkaftan.com/
Employers arguing that no skilled Americans exist is a circular argument. If salaries could rise, so would the supply of US born skilled IT workers. Similarly arguments about competitive forces are junk. If the H1B1 was reformed all US employers would be in same competitive landscape so there is no incremental advantage given/taken.If paying US IT workers really puts a dent in profitability the CEO can always take a pay up from 1000X to 100X since without IT these companies cease to function. The owners of the company (stockholders not CEO) should not care how labor cost are distributed between professional management class abd professioal “getting it done” class of employees.
Internalization of positive network externalities drove the demographic shift of SV from native-born to, now, over 2/3 foreign-born. Such externalities, sometimes called “network effects” are the essence of economic rent. Rent seeking, whether in the public or private sectors, exploits a bug in civilization that arises when the tax base shifts from liquidation value of net assets and onto economic activities (like income, capital gains, sales, VAT, inheritance, etc.). Since this is a bug that benefits the powerful, the powerful are generally prone to introduce it into the tax system once the foundation of civilization has been laid and they can coast on the economic rents. Older cultures are, therefore, more highly evolved toward rent seeking than is the settler culture of the US. It was bad enough when Gates became the richest man on MS-DOS’s economic rent stream but when the Internet opened up literal networked business models, the race was on to capture the economic rents and guess which cultures won that race?
The indigenous rent seekers of the US are rapidly being replaced and ever more of the social policies centralized, as evidenced by the centralization of wealth and power in the counties around DC now outstripping SV. It’s a land rush. THAT is why there is no reasonable hope of reforming _anything_ regarding immigration into the US until the US is dragged down to the level of the rest of the world.
Agree, as outlined in Chrystia Freeland book “Plutocrats, The Rise of the new Global Super-Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else”
Several newspapers have reported that as many as a million Indians are waiting for green cards. They’re allowed to extend their h1b indefinitely while they wait. The backup is seventy years long so Congress has a bill to speed it up. No wonder so many jobs are gone.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article197603139
L1 visas are also a big issue. These are supposed to be for managers or other highly skilled employees, that you bring in. They are working for you in another country, but their skills are just so vital that you need them here. They get paid in their native country. Well, surprise surprise, these companies are abusing that and just using it as a source of cheap labor. 25K salary or so, you get a per diem(that the workers then commit fraud with the restaurants to get more).
Great article but you’re wrong about one thing. The H1b is a “dual-intent” visa, meaning, and employer can petition a foreign worker for an EB green card. This is the major problem and part of the reason why there’s a huge backlog – a lot of these consultancy companies have accepted briberies to sponsor workers for green cards. Several foreigners I know paid over $20,000 to the employer cash under the table to get the GC sponsorship done. Furthermore, at companies like Microsoft, LinkedIn, or Universities for that matter, EB green card sponsorship is done on day 1 of the foreign worker’s employment! It’s not just outsourcing companies that’s the issue. It’s also major tech corporations that are abusing the H1b as well. When Indian students come here an enroll in some low tier university for a crapshoot masters degree in electrical engineering, they are doing it to one day get a green card. For example, from myvisajobs.com, I was able to pull up data on how many Green Cards Intel petitioned for for their Folsom California office. Quite a lot of India sponsorship at that office. And which university did the majority of those Indians attend? Sacramento State University- a low tier un-ranked university. In other words, these aren’t the best and brightest folks.
The fix is simple: (1) Reduce H1b quota from 85,000 to 20,000.
(2) Increase the prevailing wage requirement and remove the tier wage scale on the Labor Certification Application (LCA).
(3) Apply country quota restrictions so India and China don’t unfairly take all the visas.
(4) Add the requirement that an employer has to prove that it tried seeking an American worker, but could not find one. This is where I think the Department of Labor gets involved for setting up a job portal listing. They need to list this job opening position and list it on the DOL portal if they are seeking an H1b. This also allows a mediator (DOL) to really asses and scrutinize if the employer really advertised the job in an appropriate manner that Americans could see the job listing and apply. Currently, an employer advertises a tech job in a freaking newspaper!!
(5) The foreign worker should have such a visa that it allows them easy ability to switch companies. The new company would need to follow the above steps, and then update the system to ensure that the H1b worker is now transferred to the new company.
(6) As long as the H1b worker has maintained proper legal status, worked in the required specialty occupation for the entire 6 year period, and never been laid off for a period of 2 months at any time of their visa, they should get an EB GC without any issue.
I got a masters from cal state. It’s not a joke. From a legal perspective it’s worth as much as Stanford. My sister actually got hers from Stanford and she can’t change her own oil. She’s an auto engineer.
You are right about one thing. These state grad programs have filled with foreign students. They lower the English requirements. The big schools do that too. Mit admitted their data was all off cause they didn’t count English scores for foreign students.
Since my undergrad degree was not in computers I had to take all these prerequisites that were harder than anything at the grad level. They’re not a joke but typically slightly harder than the undergrad classes. But they’re all computers, while undergrads take several math classes.
I think there’s some bribery going on too. This is normal in india. Plus financial aid fraud. My brother teaches statistics at a uc campus. He was complaining twenty years ago that they were directing aid illegally to foreign students.
Many of the profs in those fields are foreign. They control these schools now. Also, ta positions, they go to foreign students even if the undergrads can’t follow them. And as you said it’s all tied to h1b and the visa system. They get in state tuition in most states.
It’s more to do with experience and qualification. These foreign students getting masters degree at cal state universities are not that bright. The degree doesn’t make them smarter. Their only reason to enter these schools which have such an easy entry requirement compared to say Stanford, is to get the OPT work permit, and then get an H1b visa. Most of the hiring managers at Intel are all Indian. Hence, they hire their own. Massive discrimination.
My program required 75 percentile for math and verbal on the GRE. That’s easy for an engineer in math. The UC schools, ucla, Irvine required 90 percentile. Thats high for an engineer in verbal. A law school score. But the foreign students could have 50 percent. There was a written requirement but they got special treatment there too. They weren’t judged on grammar. It actually said that on the test.
I went to cal state cause I couldn’t score 90 on verbal. That’s the basic score they mention in their info. The real number is higher. Didn’t use to be like that. My brother wasn’t better than me. In the 1990s there weren’t so many foreign students. Now they have different requirements for foreign students and it’s much harder for Americans.
The foreign students I had encountered told me they weren’t required to do the GRE at the CSU. That shows you how relaxed the admissions are for international students. There’s a famous scandal once upon a time where CSU Hayward (now CSU East Bay) would only accept international students for the masters program. It was bad. International students are preferred because of the huge Out of state revenue universities can make off them. Florida Tech has 35% international students at their university. 95% of international students at university of central Missouri are Indians. None of them find jobs in large Silicon Valley companies. Just shows you how fraudulent the system has become.
I’ve been contacted by all the major outsourcers since trump won. Never before that. But I haven’t heard from IBM. I did interview at some big American companies but didn’t think the American companies are eager to hire me. So it makes sense now. The Americans are planning for the h1bs that the outsourcers lose. Suppose they could work out something to keep them under any quota. Hp could directly hire Wipro h1bs already working for hp. They could pay something for the cost like they do an agent.
Lou Dobbs: Law Firm teaches how to avoid hiring Americans
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx–jNQYNgA
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PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans to secure green cards for H-1b workers
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
In addition to our government and corporate leaders selling out American tech workers
in regard to H-1B visas, it should be noted that complicit in perpetrating this fraud is
the local paper of record, the San Jose Mercury News. For literally decades, their
coverage of H-1B issues has been overwhelmingly sympathetic to corporate interests.
Any dissenting views are buried deep at the end of articles, with just a sentence or
two that amounts to “some people don’t like the H-1B visa program because they think
it hurts American workers.” There’s never been any critical examination of the program,
and certainly no “investigative” journalism that might bring any problems to light.
Norm Matloff’s excellent H-1B page:
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html
https://mobile.twitter.com/senorrinhatch/status/956995352636293121
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/7uuwz2/the_rate_at_which_the_applications_are_flooding/
[…] "U.S. immigration program to allow 65,000 foreign workers into the USA each year for up to six years" https://www.cringely.com/2018/01/31/2018-prediction-5-h-1b-visa-problem-will-not-go-away/ […]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA
There should be NO benefit to hiring a foreign worker over a qualified national/citizen.
Benefit is excluding Americans, driving wages down, increasing poverty, and consolidating power, South Africa had apartheid to bring in foreign workers, we have h1b and Hindus instead of blacks
There are a couple of key points to remember about the program. The “sh-t” wages, as Bob so eloquently expresses, is not a function of the market, but of the enabling legislation. In the ’80’s the minimum salary requirement was set at $60,000/year, certainly a strong number back then. A central problem is that number hasn’t changed. If it were set at a number commensurate with the US jobs for which many of these workers are hired, somewhere between $100,000-$150,000, much of the savings, and thus incentive to use the program, would evaporate.
In addition, the vast majority of visas are used by foreign (mostly Indian) outsourcers such as TCS, Wipro, Cognizant, and their ilk. And the vast majority of those jobs are lower-level programmers, data architects, and such. So while these firms are talking about more US citizen hiring, is there likely to be a one-to-one replacement of up to 400,000 HB-1s for US citizens? Not likely. As Oracle advertises almost every day in the Wall Street Journal, it’s all about automation and “no human interaction.” The irony is that the machines are now starting to get cheaper than the humans. The marginal bump in US citizen hiring won’t match the increase in the offshore centers needed to maintain competitive pricing.
We’ve certainly reached a tipping point on this visa issue. It will be interesting to see how the current administration’s plan to eliminate spousal ability to work will affect the environment. Absent a significant change in the base salary requirements, not much will change.
So Oracle is advertising that a machine can replace a $100K – $150K programmer? I’ll be the maintenance on that machine would cost even more.
I’ve seen Oracle’s software and I’m not surprised that they think a machine could do an equivalent job.
Foreigners today. Machines tomorrow. Corporate malfeasance and greed always. You can pick from bête noire number one or bête noire number two or bête noire number three.
That’s just corporate propaganda
And it’s not just foreigners, it’s American corporations firing Americans and importing Hindus to replace them, after the Americans are forced to train them
America was founded on slavery and apartheid and Hindus are just the new modern politically correct face of apartheid, they want you to believe they are doing the Hindus a favour the way they did with the blacks
They are trying to make it politically correct to force Americans into joblessness and homelessness
It’s abut destroying local jobs
Hey didn’t the moron in chief promise to fix this?
The big thing to keep in mind, companies have just found that they can live with not paying people the going rate or give raises. Simple as that!
A former co-worker of mine has been an H1B 17 years. His application for his green card has been in the system for many years, and each year it does not get approved thanks to his employer who keeps him effectively enslaved. His daughter came here at 1 1/2 years old. She is now part of DACA and is in college. This system is completely to hold down wages. What I don’t understand is why employers don’t just pay the H1B (lower) wages to everyone? Actually, several companies do this. I worked for a S&P 20 company a decade ago that did just that. For 2 1/2 years, I worked 70 hours a week at 30-40% less than the market pay for the job, mainly to obtain a new skill set, which paid me quite handsomely after I left. My wife and I figured out that hourly, I was making less per hour than she was as a hospital birth instructor. My next job paid me 40% more, overtime, and I never looked back after that. My Co-workers either had no experience (I trained them), or were contractors where no one would take the job. Somehow, we managed to maintain and upgrade the supply chain software a of major worldwide wholesaler. The VP went sailing with the software vendor’s Account Executive and we paid 4x for their software thana competitor’s software which actually worked much better. Later he went to work for the software firm itself, a huge conflict of interest IMO. I am at the point now where I just do my job, try to ask decent questions, and hope that I can keep making what I’m making until my last kid is out of college. My wife and I already looking forward to the day when we pay everything off, even if it means living in a low cost of living state in a hut. I’m angry about all this, and would move to Europe if I did not have 4 remaining living elderly relatives and in-laws. This country has become the “United Corporations of America”, and they are bent on world domination and lowest possible labor costs, even if their employees are on government assistance. Well, at least (for now), I have my 401k.
Looks like you answered your own question, when you said “paid me quite handsomely after I left”. Those companies that want continuity hold on to their employees with H1B slavery and by paying more to non-H1B employees.
Bob,
What is your take on the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Agency’s newly announced “adjustments” to the polices/processes for H1B applicationants? At first blush the “changes” seem like the agency is retrenching its enforcement of much of the H1B’ original intent, but I’d like to hear from someone who has more than a surface familiarity of the subject (me, that is).
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2018/2018-02-22-PM-602-0157-Contracts-and-Itineraries-Requirements-for-H-1B.pdf
– Tenaya