Readers have been clamoring — nay demanding — a Mineserver update, so here it is. The gist of customer complaints is that they feel cheated and under-informed and we’re sorry for that, but please read-on.
This is our 25th update on the Mineserver project. That’s a lot of updates for people who don’t do enough updates. We’ve detailed so far every step and misstep in the project except one, which is coming in the next paragraph. Nothing about those earlier updates has changed or is incorrect. We’ve learned a lot and we’ve done what we had to do to get to this point.
The major change that has been, to this point, unannounced, is that we ran out of money. Yes, we raised $34,000 on KickStarter which netted us $30,000 and has many people pissed-off, but we’ve spent just under $90,000 in all, which is as much as my poor old retirement account could stand purely for the vocational education of my children. Not a penny of this went for salaries, by the way. If it seems like too much money then you haven’t started a company lately in California.
Those who criticize this project for being run unlike a Silicon Valley startup should understand that if it was such a startup we would have long ago declared bankruptcy, leaving customers with nothing. But I’m not going to do that to my children, just as I don’t allow them to read your comments.
Facing a financial crisis (you can’t ship products if you can’t afford to pay for shipping) we were forced to fish or cut bait: did we intend to pursue this business long-term or not? If we did intend to pursue it then we’d need to raise more money. And that money wasn’t going to come from a horde of KickStarter backers who were already carrying torches and pitchforks.
We had a company meeting and decided to go for broke, which means changing into a true startup. That began with hiring a real business lawyer, Herb Fockler from Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati in Palo Alto. Herb has become our guru, though if you want to sue us please go through our litigator, Claude Stern of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan in Redwood City. Our entertainment deals are handled by Chuck Hurewitz of Isaacman Kauffman & Painter in Los Angeles. Yes, we’ve lawyered-up. That’s how it’s done.
Herb told us to turn Mineserver LLC into Mineserver Corporation, a Delaware C-Corp like all the other Sand Hill Road darlings. That took time and money we didn’t have. Then we set about raising seed money. This is where we had to be quiet, because publishing the details I am sharing here could have imperiled negotiations. You can’t very easily tell 100,000 people about your screw-ups while trying to find an investor at the same time.
But that wasn’t the only reason for keeping quiet. We were held up waiting for suppliers who were giving us 90 percent discounts: you can’t blame them in public and expect them to take it well. How would you have handled that?
Deciding to grow the company complicates things a lot. We had to come up with a plan for mass production. One of our hardware suppliers simply wasn’t capable of growing with us so we had to replace that supplier, which wasn’t easy especially since it involved numbers that were increasing by 100X.
Based on what we learned from the $99 Mineserver and $199 Mineserver Pro, we had to come up with a single follow-on product to replace both that was cheaper to make yet more powerful. This will be the $99 Mineserver 2, designed primarily by Fallon, who just turned 11. The $99 Mineserver 2, which has nearly the performance of a Mineserver Pro, will be a four-core 64-bit machine running at 2.2 GHz with two gigs of DDR3 RAM and a 16-gig eMMC card. This machine, prototypes of which will soon be in testing, will be assembled overseas, not in the Man Cave.
All this is nice but what’s the investor pitch and which kid gets to be CEO? I guess they are all CEO at this point because no one is better at that job than his brothers. But we’ve brought on a few advisors who’ve done the job before, notably Doug Carlston, co-founder and longtime CEO of Broderbund Software.
The investor pitch is simple: 1) we have a great product that’s unique in the industry; 2) it’s unique because we’ve accomplished something heretofore thought impossible, which is true zero-configuration networking with any home router in America or the world; 3) we accomplished this because we were too ignorant to know it was impossible; 4) we have a brilliant marketing program (two of them, actually) that will lead to rapid direct sales growth; 5) with 125 million licensed Minecraft players in the world we see a market in the next two years for approximately one percent of that installed based or 1.25 million Mineservers worth more than $100 million, and (finally); 6) Mineserver Corporation is literally the ONLY way to invest in the Minecraft ecosystem other than by buying Microsoft shares.
Which company, between those two, has the greater market cap growth potential?
And the pitch must have worked because we’ve found just enough investors to move on to the next level, which is first shipping our current orders (with 16-gig SD cards instead of 8-gig) then ramping-up Mineserver 2 production overseas.
Eventually the plan is to sell the company, probably to Microsoft. After all, we’ve accomplished what Redmond could not.
So that’s the update. If you are among our KickStarter backers we’re sorry for being so late, but we’ll also remind you that the average price you have paid for a $99 Mineserver is $63 and our average cost to deliver them will be almost exactly $99. You get a deal but in return you, as backers, assumed some of the risk.
Finally, if Herb says we can legally do so, we’re going to attach some Mineserver Corporation warrants to every late KickStarter order (twice as many for the Mineserver Pros) so you can share in our success, which we are sure is about to be realized.
Thank you! Hopefully this will put an end to the relentless damned moaning comments (though I suspect it won’t).
Hasn’t stopped you yet!
Easy to predict… nothing will happen. EVER.
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Why? Cringely is a huckster and sociopath, who does nothing but promote himself. I’ll believe it when I see it.
I’m replying here because it’s the top comment.
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Starting a business is hard. Keeping it running is hard. Growing it is hard. Business is hard.
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Taking a kid’s holiday activity and turning it in to a profitable and viable business commands respect. Especially when it’s costing tens of thousands of dollars to do. Few people now seem willing to take such a risk, and the world is poorer for it.
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What seems like a long time between updates is a blink of the eye to business. They suck up your time like nothing else, especially if you’ve got exams too. Gates had to drop out university to start Microsoft!
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Seems that the project took a life of it’s own, and that only makes business even harder! So let’s lay off the criticism and see how the Mine Server develops – They’ve already had to re-spin the design, making it better, and that can’t be bad.
I’m calling all you complainers out for having hidden agendas. Especially Roger Sinasohn who, in all likelihood, never put in any cash at all. Certainly not enough to warrant the time and effort he puts in to filling this space with his venom. Ask yourself, is he an IBMer who can’t stand Robert’s (forcefully put) views on that company? Who knows what his beef is but I’m not buying that this amount of vitriol from all of you is tied to such a minor investment for an individual. Fake news, I call it. Now that you all have a response, albeit words rather than product – yet, it’s time for you to shut up and wait for it to arrive in the mail.
I wish you the very best of luck.
Having worked for tech startsups for more than 30 years I thought that something like that must have happened and that this accounted for your silence despite the utterly boorish haranguing by a few people on every thread over the last year or so. Your response has been utterly professional at all times despite the uncalled for personal attacks by some.
What these repeated posters dont realize is that to us in the business, who understand what is involved in doing this stuff and have been around the block many times, immediately recognize them for what they are – the crank customer. Dealt with them many times. Even when you go to exceptional lengths to deal with their complaints, the listen to them, they are never satisfied and usually when you offer them their money back the wont take it. They just like to complain and be unpleasant.
My first problem customer is very typical. This was back in the mid 80’s at the height of the last AI boom and I worked for a startup that wrote AI languages and tools. It was a very small market so any negative comments published were exceptionally damaging. We produced products that allowed you to do on a $3K computer what had previously needed a $120K computer. The vast majority of our customers were very very happy with this. Because they knew this.
Then one day we started getting repeated irate tech support calls from one guy back East. We patiently answered all his questions but it soon became obvious that he was not a terribly bright or competent programmer. We were used to dealing with beginners as it was a new technology but everyone else seem to catch on pretty quickly. We offered this guy his money back but he refused. He wanted his “problem” to be “fixed”. Even though the problem was due to his lack of basic understanding of how to use the technology.
Then several months later there is a scathing review of our product in one of the few magazines covering our particular market. Written by this guy. Now experts knew the reviewer did not have a clue but as most of our potential customers were just getting into this technology they were left with a very negative impression of our product. Sales were very badly hurt by his reviews. A lot of probables became maybes.
As I was young my first reaction was – lets fight back, lets reply pointing out the guy is a clueless idiot and the product does exactly what it claims. But the more experienced guys knew that does not work. Getting in a public slagging match with a very vocal idiot reviewer rarely makes things better, almost always worse. So the damage was done. And although the company later failed for other reasons that idiot reviewer did some very serious damage to the prospects of the product. Without him, they would have stood a much better chance of success. In a small marker one bad review back then, even from a complete incompetent, could do enormous damage.
Now the postscript to this story is very interesting. Searching around online many years later for references to this particular AI product up popped a very recent online discussion. Where the very same guy who wrote the very negative review all those years ago is still trashing our product. So I join in the discussion, introduce myself, and point out some of the most glaring technical errors in his postings. I get a very snide reply from our reviewer so I promptly tore him a new one. Even after 30 years of supposedly using this technology he was still making beginner mistakes. All his complaints about the product were based on his own technical ignorance rather than on any technically informed expertise. In the subsequent exchange it turned out that not only had he never used the technology professionally he had never actually worked in any relevant tech area and that his interest in this technology was purely a hobby. The classic crank.
So in future whenever you search online for our product of long long ago not only will this guys negative reviews (he wrote several at the time) turn up at the top of the list. But right below it will be my exchange with this guy showing what a complete and total fool he is. That he had basically zero technical competence.
He was the first of quite a few I met in the next 30 plus years. Saying that, the vast majority of the customers I’ve talked to over the years are great. The sort of people who make the whole drama and stress (and often failure) of getting product out the door all worthwhile. There is nothing like the kick you get from seeing someone do something useful with software you were involved with. Being able to say, I wrote that. It makes all those pointless interminable meeting almost worthwhile. Almost.
And the moral of this tale for those people who tried to hijack every thread here for the last year. When you do stuff like this the vast majority of readers here (people like me) recognized the type and classify you as a crank and an idiot. So the best way to be not considered a crank is not to act like a crank.
Anyway, best of luck Bob with the new venture. Fingers crossed you’ll at least get your money back. You have acted with the highest of business ethics during the whole saga. I hope when you kids grow up that they will learn to appreciate just what a good guy you’ve been. Because you’ve certainly got my respect.
Your anecdata does not apply. Bob never shipped his product so the technical competence of his customers never came into play, the complaints were all about a long string of broken promises (NOT “utterly professional” behavior) to keep backers updated on the progress, and it was a hell of a lot more than one “crank” customer complaining – it was a horde (in Bob’s words), all with the same complaint.
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The moral of this tale for those with extremely poor reading comprehension is to seek out someone who understands the issue to explain it to you instead of making yourself look foolish with the childish use of ad hominem and ridiculously inappropriate analogy.
Sorry guys. A crank is a crank is a crank. And you guys sound remarkably like cranks. Who dont ship product and have deal with the thankfully very small number of cranks out there. People who actually have done this for a living for decades understand exactly what Bob has done and I suspect, like me, are a little amazed that he has gone to the lengths he has to act with the highest business ethics. My attitude would be, you guys tried a punt and as is usually the case with Kickstarter it did not turn out as expected. Tough luck. Maybe next time.
If it had been an Inc touting vaporware I would give you guys a bit more credence . But it was not. It was a Kickstarter play with full disclosure of its origins from the very beginning. Just because you put in a little bit of cash in does not give you any rights whatsoever to go on and on like screaming harpies month in month out about your stupid little tech toy has not been delivered yet.
If it had been some substantive piece of tech, you know, something important , again I might have given you guys some credence but Mineserver hardware? Are you joking. Its a damn toy for gods sake. A piece of interesting technofluff. How damn childish can you be making such a big deal about so a trivial item.
If you guys had just chirped in every now and then, and with a less hectoring tone, then maybe you might have garnered a bit more sympathy but as the months progressed and you guys hijacked every single thread, with your incessant whining like spoiled brats who always wanted to be the center of attention, quiet soon you lost any possible sympathy I might have had. Bob gave an exceptionally valid reason why he had to keep radio silence as long as he did. Sounds perfectly good to me and I suspect all the rest of use here who are actually in the business.
I’ve seen customers screwed over by companies in the past. And screwed badly. We are talking real products here with real serious money up front, products that would and could never work. But this is not one of these cases. This is just the case of a very vocal minority who *gambled* a small amount of money on what was openly described as an experimental project from the very beginning and you guys act like hysterical toddlers because you cannot get your toy right now. Stomping your feet at every opportunity.
I know exactly sort of people you are by your public behavior. In the old days of doing my time on trade show stands we would have thousands of people stream by everyday, hundreds stopping, a few dozen having chats. Got to meet so many nice and interesting people over the years that way. Of those hundreds passing in a day maybe one or two a day would have a real attitude problem. Just itching to be obnoxious in some way or other. With some snide little put down or other. To show off what techno gods they were. Of course they were invariably utterly ignorant fools. After a year or two you could spot them from two or three stands away. What I learned from experienced sales people was how to spot these people and head them off. And how you never ever wanted these people as customers. They would never ever be satisfied, would be impossible to support, and would very vocally and very publicly bad mouth our product at every opportunity. Later on I got to recognize the initial signs of these type of people on the phone so you just short circuited the whole process at the very beginning by offering a full money back refund and FedExing the refund check out that day. And if it was not cashed immediately. Resend again. Life’s too short to deal with these people.
So I’m just telling you what people in the tech business really think about the type of customers who engage in the incessant and very public toddler tantrums. Just like the ones I have seen by a few posters here over the last year or two. Basically you are little more than a*holes. Because ultimately you have been making such a very big deal about something as trivial as an experiment Kickerstarter project done by a bunch of you kids.
How pathetic can you get.
Just saying
The only upside of the incessant complainers and crank customers is that make you appreciate even more the vast majority of customers who have proved to be such a real pleasure to deal with over the year.
“It was a Kickstarter play with full disclosure of its origins from the very beginning. Just because you put in a little bit of cash in does not give you any rights whatsoever to go on and on like screaming harpies month in month out about your stupid little tech toy has not been delivered yet.”
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First of all, if you’re going to use so many of them, you might want to learn which words you should be using and how to string them together coherently.
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Next: “Full disclosure” — Bullshit. Crookely stated from the beginning that if he had the cases, they could ship immediately. Then it drags on and on and on. Then he goes silent — how is that “full disclosure”?
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No, having contributed doesn’t give us the right to “go on and on like screaming harpies” (nice visual, btw) — that right is related to the kickstarter project. I have as much right to say what I like as you do. I just do it with proper grammar.
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Lastly and most importantly: No one that I saw has been complaining about our “stupid little tech toy [not being] delivered yet.” Instead, and you would know this if you actually cared to read any of the complaints before shooting your mouth off, backers are upset about the lack of communication, especially from one who earns his living as… wait for it… a communicator.
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Yes, people are upset, but not because they didn’t receive a product. They’re upset because Crookely hasn’t written anything on Kickstarter (still hasn’t, btw) for over six months.
I disagree. I started out arguing against the Mineserver folks, but eventually I came to the conclusion that if Cringely is lying about one thing then he can’t be trusted on other subjects. It is a way to evaluate his competence, and was OK with the Mineserver commenting.
Mineserver isn’t just Kickstarter. Cringely advertised it here.
@jmc you are so misinformed on this topic that it’s likely not worth correcting you, as I assume you already have decided what you believe and no further reading is going to sway you.
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I just wanted to make sure it’s known to others who managed to sift through your novella there, that you are plain and simply incorrect and your analogy does not apply in this case. Bob was not professional in his gross lack of communication, continued empty promises that yielded nothing (not even apologies), nor his constant berating of those who helped fund this venture that will likely bankroll him into retirement.
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If you would like to know more, simply read previous posts (and don’t just cherry pick those that are convenient to your cause).
Perhaps “imc” stands for “I’m Cringely”.
No cherry picking. Just been reading Bob, or rather Mark, since the ’80’s. The Infoworld days. Bought his first book in ’92, still the most accurate history of the whole crazy period. And have been reading him online since he first set up shop. Back in the 90’s sometime. And been following this whole sorry saga from the very beginning.
Never met him in person although given how long we have both been in the business, and in the Valley, I’m sure there are quite a few one / two degrees of separation. Its a very small world.
“No cherry picking. Just been reading Bob, or rather Mark…”
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Yeah, we get that. What you *haven’t* read is the complaints from Crookely’s backers.
Re: “have been reading him online since he first set up shop. Back in the 90’s sometime. And been following this whole sorry saga from the very beginning.” Me too.
Ditto.
I invested in both a concept and a personal reputation. The concept tweaks were understandable and very well documented. Your history and personal reputation sustained faith through the radio silence.
Now it’s time for Herb to come through.
This has been a great soap opera. I’m looking forward to the last act.
Way to go, Team Cringely!
I’m so excited your project has taken off. My kiddos will be thrilled to hear the update.
When you have a moment please document this adventure in more detail. The book should be titled “Elementary MBA” and I need it for my 4 little barbarians.
Congrats!
Ben
“This is our 25th update on the Mineserver project. That’s a lot of updates for people who don’t do enough updates.”
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It’s been 28 weeks since the last update. That’s NOT a lot of updates for people who promised weekly updates. Let’s not pretend communications have been hunky-dory for the 86 weeks this ready-to-ship-as-soon-as-we-buy-custom-cases-you’ll-have-it-by-Christmas-2015-no-wait-week-after-Thanksgiving-2016-no-wait-who-knows-when vaporware.
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So now we have another excuse and another promise to ship current orders. 28 weeks ago the last update proclaimed the project complete with just a bit of software testing left to do before shipping in two weeks, and now we’re told “We were held up waiting for suppliers who were giving us 90 percent discounts: you can’t blame them in public and expect them to take it well. How would you have handled that? “? Does not compute.
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We finally completed the original project but couldn’t afford to ship so we hired three lawyers and a few advisors, re-incorporated at considerable expense and very privately (because who would invest in us if we were to foolishly demonstrate honest communication with previous investors) raised enough seed money to finally ship “current” orders which are very publicly 73 weeks late? Raises more questions than it answers. How did Bob prevent potential investors from reading comments publicly posted here and on Kickstarter? Will we see him and the kids on an episode of Shark Tank?
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Thanks for the update Bob, it’s what everyone’s been clamoring for and at least it’s something, hopefully enough to quiet the civil war going on in comments. I’ll do my part and go back to reading and occasionally commenting on the subjects of non-mineserver-related posts. Here’s hoping you vindicate yourself with roaring success, but I’ll believe it when I see it.
Good luck Bob and team. It will be a great product. People should be reminded that most startups fail and bankrupt. Thank you for keeping it alive.
Oh hey! Say “HI” to Doug for me! I worked with them when Broderbund was in Eugene, OR. It’s been a long time…
Edwin! (né Brian Crouch)
Good luck! I assumed that was what was happening, or that Microsoft was buying you 🙂
I signed up to support your kids, not drain your bank. How can I send you another 50 bucks?
There’s a “donate” Paypal button on Bob’s website…
Not sure how you’re counting the MineServer updates but the last update SIX Months ago was #25. This should be #26. You would see that if you ever logged into YOUR Kickstarter project. Please put this update #26 on the Kickstarter site for those that refuse to visit your blog now.
Thanks for giving us an update. However, it sounds like another just wait for something great to happen, added to the list of broken promises. I truly hope this one happens. Can we get back on the schedule of some update every week? At least once a month?
Amazing. I did a very casual search for Kickstarter success/failure rates. They happily disclose the number of funding targets met. What I’d love to know is how many Kickstarter projects actually make it to market. I’m confident the numbers are pretty bleak.
I’ve sat back and silently observed the disgruntled “investors” who have turned your comment section into some kind of customer service forum. They seem to believe they purchased a product from NewEgg or Target! No awareness or concession of risk whatsoever.
I vividly remember reading the initial announcement thinking–what a lucky group of kids, the lessons they will learn! One lesson they are learning is that entrepreneurship is hard, and like comedy, it isn’t pretty! If only your customers, ahem, INVESTORS understood that. I have great admiration for your parenting methods Bob, and the best of luck to the whole crew.
@DSC you, like your other 3 initial-named brethren (JMC), are so misinformed that it’s likely not worth correcting you, as I assume you already have decided what you believe and no further reading is going to sway you.
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I just wanted to make sure it’s known to others that you are plain and simply incorrect about why many of us are upset (and if you read the majority of comments over the past year you’d know that). Bob was not professional in his gross lack of communication, continued empty promises that yielded nothing (not even apologies), nor his constant berating of those who helped fund this venture that will likely bankroll him into retirement.
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Notice that NOTHING I complained about above has ANYTHING to do with the lack of a product. People aren’t upset there is no product, it’s how the campaign was run, which was needless to say, horrible.
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If you would like to know more, simply read previous posts (and don’t just cherry pick those that are convenient to your cause).
“They seem to believe they purchased a product from NewEgg or Target! No awareness or concession of risk whatsoever.”
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Uh, no they don’t. I won’t say that there aren’t any that think that, but the majority — and I would say that very nearly all ‘the disgruntled “investors”’ — know exactly what Kickstarter is all about.
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That’s why the complaints have centered around the lack of communication rather than the lack of product.
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But, yeah, you do your “casual search” and think you know all about it.
“They seem to believe they purchased a product from NewEgg or Target!…”
When in actuality, they bought it from Circuit City.
But, didn’t Bob say in his article that he has given 25 status updates? He then went on to explain why he couldn’t report any new updates for an extended amount of time.
Jeez, how much did you guys invest, like $99??? He told you at the start it was a project for his young kids. You should have expected back when you invested that you’re odds of success would be about the same as placing a bet in Vegas. The main benefit of the project was most certainly a valuable learning experience for his sons.
@No One Oh my goodness, who opened the door and let you in?!? You should not be here! Do yourself a favor and please exit this conversation. You are not ready…
“But, didn’t Bob say in his article that he has given 25 status updates?”
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Yeah, I bought a dozen eggs and when I got home I opened the carton and there were 4 eggs inside. I went back to the store and the guy said “what do you want? There are like 4 whole eggs in there!”
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Yes, there are 25 updates on the kickstarter project. A quarter of them were posted while still in the funding phase and another quarter+ in the next three months. Then came a period of the occasional update saying “Hey we had a problem, but we were too busy to let you know. We’re shipping in a couple of weeks and we’ll update you more often.”
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It has been 19 months+ since the project was *funded* (that doesn’t count the “please give us money!” phase) and, in that time, (iirc) there have been 18 updates, most of which were in the first three months. For comparison, I ran a (much simpler) kickstarter project that was done (100% shipped) in 6 months and I put out 21 updates.
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So, yeah, 25 updates is *nothing*.
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“He then went on to explain why he couldn’t report any new updates for an extended amount of time.”
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He gave a barely plausible explanation. But tomatoes/tomahtoes.
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“Jeez, how much did you guys invest, like $99???”
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It is not and never was about the money. It’s about the integrity.
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“He told you at the start it was a project for his young kids.”
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Kids are not allowed to run a kickstarter project for exactly the reasons you imply. Whether or not it was his kids’ ideas and whether or not they were doing the work, he was ultimately responsible.
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“The main benefit of the project was most certainly a valuable learning experience for his sons.”
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I’ve got three kids of my own. Why is he asking me to fund his kids’ learning experiences? (Hmmm, maybe I should send him a bill for my kids’ dance classes…)
@Cringely I’m torn between pleased to hear news, displeased with you completely down playing things and essentially throwing all of the backers under the bus as the unreasonable ones, and skeptical simply because it’s another promise with very few supporting details other than your word.
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To be clear, I’m ready for this to be done and will happily go away once it is, but it’s NOT done yet. I don’t have a mission to make your life hell, as you did what we (or I at least) wanted and came clean. What I didn’t expect was for this circus to continue and for you to actually ship us anything so now I’m in a weird limbo where you did not admit defeat, but you also have not shipped me anything, so instead I simply wait and hope you can follow through this time.
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I will say that you could do with some courses on how to communicate with people better. You have a horrible knack about talking down at your consumers and complaining about them. They are the reason you have the privilege of being able to potentially capitalize on this and go into profit down the line (despite the current speed bumps and personal investment). Complaining about how much of a nuisance we were while “working on it” is not good business. For the record, you should also learn to work on transparency.
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Speaking of which, I’d like to point out two things:
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1.) If your investors had no idea what was going on with the KickStarter then they may be idiots and you should question going into business with them. Anyone with any experience with the internet can google “Mineserver” and be taken to this blog and see a flurry of comments outlining everything. If they could not find those and you being “radio silent” was trying to cover that up, then I truly question them as investors.
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2.) If you think your kids haven’t read these comments you either are delusional or you have your kids locked away in a basement somewhere for the same reasons as above. They can google Mineserver or your name (Cringely or Mark Stephens) and this is one of the top results. Sure, maybe you have Net Nanny or something on your local network at home, but if any of them have phones (which most kids do these days, and you being a techy I assume your kids do) they can get it there. Even if you managed to block that, their friends (this is me assuming they have friends) are not blocked and would voice these things to them because kids LOVE stuff like that. So I’m just going to let you know that this is not true. Your kids have read the comments, whether you wanted them to or not. If they told you otherwise, spoiler, kids lie to their parents. It’s part of growing up.
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I hope you can follow through on your promise, though until we get a survey saying “have you moved? What’s your new address” then I won’t hold my breath, lest I be holding it for over 6 months again…
@NotOutoftheWoodsYet I would add that Cringely could have easily called it quits on the Kickstarter when the funds ran out, told us the KS failed, and most of us would have walked away content with that response. Cringely did not need to invest $90k of his own money into the project.
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He throws that out there as though we are supposed to feel sorry for him and like he’s doing us a solid, but the truth is that he sees an opportunity so invested $90k of his own money in an attempt to turn it into millions, or at the very least hundreds of thousands, and get his investment back, pay for his kids college, and walk away with a nice pad to his retirement fund.
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So while it’s great that we “may” get a product (eta unknown), please don’t play the victim like you did it for us. It was all in your best interest and you know it. And hey, that’s fine, it’s smart business. But your language and tone here is all backwards and we’re not buying it.
Has anyone checked the State of Delaware corporate filings? Seems to be some interesting search results there.
https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/Ecorp/NameReserv/NameReservation.aspx?s=n
https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/Ecorp/EntitySearch/NameSearch.aspx
Enjoy!
What are we searching for? I don’t understand. I looked up Mineserver LLC and it says available? Please elaborate.
Simply stating that the blog post is either false or far from transparent.
Meaning that the corporate filing in question is said to be in Delaware with a corporate name of Mineserver Corporation. Neither the corporate filing nor the company name exist.
This is not how one builds trust back with a skeptical group of backers.
Ahhh I see. Yea, that is a little suspect. Hmm… :\
This is welcome news Bob. And I do agree with you on one point – I wouldn’t let my kids read the comments either. I don’t like to look at them myself.
Kids are going to do what kids want to do. You can’t MAKE them not read the comments. If they want to read the comments, they will find a way. If you have a family conversation telling them not to, they may resist for awhile, but curiosity will get the better of them. If you think otherwise you either have never had kids or are in denial.
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This is up there with the parents who think their kids have never watched pron, experimented with drugs, or had sex. Not to say all kids do these things, just giving an example of things parents say but to which a kid would simply deny if asked. To adamantly say it’s been stopped at the source so is a non-issue is delusional.
I’ve seen pron. Good sci-fi movie. Wasn’t that keen on the sequel.
Okay… I’ll have to see how this box runs. I have an Odroid XU-4 to run a server under Linux. My brother is running a server on a desktop system. If this is as easy to use as you’re saying, and Cuberite makes the server faster, I may end up getting a Mineserver 2 also.
P.S. Make sure to get updated addresses. I’ve moved since this started.
Just want to put in a plug for MicroVentures: https://microventures.com/
as a possible funding source
You’re massively late, massively over budget, haven’t successfully shipped a product, are assuming you can capture 1% of a market based on pretty much nothing, and are already planning to be bought out.
Your kids really are getting the Silicon Valley startup experience!
That’s pretty funny, but he’s not actually assuming capture of 1% of the market for his product, he’s estimating a market size of 1% of registered Minecraft players for devices that serve up to 20-50 players each. There might actually be more rational basis for relying on that estimate than anything else in the sales pitch.
I see IBM senior management jobs for Bob’s children in the near future.
If you’re addressing parts of this to your backers, you should probably post it on the Kickstarter page, where they’ll actually see it..
Thanks for the update Bob – Speaking for myself, I figure Kickstarters are inherently risky and no one can know whether or not a great ideas will survive the journey to fully workable product. It is like backing an early stage startup: A gamble against the odds that engineering can overcome all obstacles. There is an expectation to work hard, even incredibly hard to make it happen but it is not an open ended arraignment where you have to keep pouring in your own money. You gave a very thorough description of proposition up-front and have gone above and beyond to make it work – I hope very much you succeed and if you don’t I was happy to be a backer of the idea, share the journey & learn the lessons you documented very readably along way – thank you!
@Steve What was not learned and will continue to be brushed under the rug was the complete and utter lack of communication as well as the overconfident empty promises made time after time without any apology and usually followed with a public berating of the backers themselves. People went in knowing this could fail. People were okay with it failing. People were NOT okay with radio silence for months after promises it would be shipping next week, being ridiculed publicly multiple times, and disappearing for months while continuing to post on his blog and allowing all of the backers and blog readers to fight among themselves. His reasoning for why he had to be hush about it is completely bogus as many have already stated. Anyone who wanted to know what was going on could do a quick internet search and find out.
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Additionally, saying “I can’t speak on it right now but will update when able” would have been sufficient, but he could not do that either. So while I think many will be happy to put this behind them, saying Cringely handled this professionally is a huge overstatement.
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@Carl Like I said I was just speaking for myself. I’ve got no problem with your view and the view of the people you are speaking for. It doesn’t change the way I feel about it though. I find it hard to get angry or upset about frequency of the updates and I do appreciate all the effort and extra $’s that have gone in to trying to make it work. To try be completely clear: I write this with no implied criticism of anyone that did care about the timing of the updates.
Re: “I do appreciate all the effort and extra $’s that have gone in to trying to make it work.” Since previous statements Bob has made about the project have been false, how do we know that any extra money or effort has gone into it?
“Finally, if Herb says we can legally do so, we’re going to attach some Mineserver Corporation warrants to every late KickStarter order (twice as many for the Mineserver Pros) so you can share in our success, which we are sure is about to be realized.”
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*waits for Cringely to follow-up* “Well I tried, but Herb said this can’t be done for [insert legal reason here], but I tried. Yay me” *end PR stunt to make a saint out of Bob*
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For the love of all things, I hope I’m wrong but that’s what I took from that comment.
@PR Stunt – I agree with you that this sounds like a PR stunt since if he issues warrants to all 388 backers, it puts him close to the point where he could need to go public to meet SEC requirements.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-sec-will-force-facebook-to-go-public-2011-1
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TLDR: there is a soft cutoff around 500 investors where a company can be forced to go public.
I’m sorry, but you go dark for months at a time (after taking our money) and it’s a problem that we complain? You’ve got to be kidding me. You made commitments and missed them. Nobody cares that you had delays. That’s understandable and expected. No big deal when you explain yourself, but when you go dark on all of us, not even giving us a simple “we’re still here” update for months, that’s why its a problem. Bragging about 25 updates over a two year period is OK for Kickstarter campaigns? Ridiculous.
This has taken so long that my kids are really no longer playing Minecraft. So stop trying to make us look like bad guys for complaining.
I cannot post image of the breakdown, but 10 of the 26 posts happened within the 1st month, 8 of which were when they were trying to obtain funding. Don’t be fooled by the averages…
More than half of Crookely’s updates on Kickstarter were either during the campaign or in the three months following. 25 updates is not a lot.
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Heck, my own project (100% finished in under 6 months) had 21 updates. In less than six months. Yes, my project was simpler, in a lot of ways, than the Mineserver project, but even so, I posted *21* updates just for a LEGO chess set. This project should have had a *lot* more than 25 updates over the course of a year and a half.
@Roger Sinasohn – Everyone keeps making the point about why the investors haven’t paid attention to the negative comments about his follow through on this project. Mark is probably counting on the fact that the investors will be in hurry and will only read his blog posts and not see the negative comments that are buried in the comments. If you only look at the blog poss everything seems OK,
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village
“This is our 25th update on the Mineserver project.”
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No, no it’s not. This is an update on your personal website which most of your backers don’t bother reading.
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“That’s a lot of updates for people who don’t do enough updates.”
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Again, no it’s not. That’s not a lot of updates at all, for a project that has gone on so long. In fact, if you check https://www.sinasohn.net/Mineserver/ you’ll see it’s been over six months since your last update.
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Note also that nearly a third of *all* your updates on the Kickstarter project occurred during the period while the project was live and still accepting backers. Another 7 (out of 25) occurred in the first three months or so after the project was funded. So, no. No, it’s not a lot of updates.
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“We’ve detailed so far every step and misstep in the project except one, which is coming in the next paragraph. ”
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So you couldn’t post a simple update saying “Things are in the works but we can’t update you just yet?” Just lots of lies like “more on that in a few days”?
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Also, what happened to “ready to ship if we only had cases?”
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I hope your investors know what they’re getting into.
I want your blood. And I want your souls. And I want them both right now!
@J. Ringo – Mark will get right on that “in a few days.”
“Then we set about raising seed money. This is where we had to be quiet, because publishing the details I am sharing here could have imperiled negotiations. You can’t very easily tell 100,000 people about your screw-ups while trying to find an investor at the same time.”
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So, what you’re saying is that you’ve lied to your investors?
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Frankly, I’m not surprised given all the lies you told your backers and readers.
What “details I am sharing here” could have possibly “imperiled negotiations”? What new “screw-ups” were revealed here that weren’t already very publicly available? Cringe says “The major change that has been, to this point, unannounced, is that we ran out of money.”, but in the “Devil’s in the Details” post over a year ago he said “But $7500 in the hole is not much cost to start a technology business”.
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So much of Bob’s post doesn’t add up:
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“you can’t ship products if you can’t afford to pay for shipping”
Coulda done that for $1k. USPS business rates run under $3 for a 5 lb parcel not including volume discount. Instead they hired three lawyers and reincorporated (allegedly – as David mentioned above searches for Delaware corporations named Mineserver are coming back unregistered), THEN sought more funding. Does not compute.
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“You can’t very easily tell 100,000 people about your screw-ups while trying to find an investor at the same time”
Hope your prospective investors won’t notice the available public record of project screw-ups while making it far worse by completely ignoring previous investors for month after month, or spend a measly grand to have a successfully shipping product to show, converting irritated backers into satisfied customers in the process? As the man said: “How would you have handled that?”
“you can’t ship products if you can’t afford to pay for shipping”
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But what he *could* have done is post an update (remember those, Bob?) on Kickstarter saying that and asking if folks would be willing to chip in an extra $5-7 (USPS Priority Mail shipping for a small box — they give you the box! — is a little over $7 retail).
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He didn’t do that. Still hasn’t.
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(Not that I’m saying that would have solved all his problems and made everyone happy, but it would have been something. It would have been better than just not saying anything.)
When I backed the Mindserver project, it was more to ride along on the journey of the project. That is what I feel we missed out on. When it came time to go big or go home, I wish Bob would have talked about the decision with the backers and let use experience and contribute to the outcome. As far as expecting this to be in item from a retailer, most backer did not see it like that but like myself, this was the first (and last) crowd funded project backed. I only did it because I too have been following Bob since the 90’s.
It sounds like the hardware and the software on the box was ready. It was the gold plating of the phone app that derailed the project. These are thing we could have talked about on Kickstarter. I think most would have been happy with the box. The fact he put in more money and investors was his choice. I don’t see why that is the Kickstarter backers fault.
“When I backed the Mindserver project, it was more to ride along on the journey of the project. That is what I feel we missed out on. ”
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EXACTLY!
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For those who don’t get it, take a look at the DoubleSix dice project. There were snafus up the wazoo and yet the project creator kept everyone in the loop, asked for advice, and ultimately came through *with* his backers, not in spite of or even contrary to. At the end of *that* project, he had his backers wanting to send him money and buy him beers.
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I think there’s an MBA thesis in here somewhere.
Great news. I was assuming the Bob was being sued by Microsoft and being strong armed into selling his product to them for a rip off price.
Unfortunately I fear that Microsoft may possibly be Bob’s ultimate potential enemy… not the whiny, clueless posters. I noticed no mention of a patent and/or trademark lawyer.
“I noticed no mention of a patent and/or trademark lawyer.”
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There’s nothing to patent — the Mineserver (the original, anyway) uses off-the-shelf SBCs and while one could trademark (I suppose — IANAL) “Mineserver”, some of the other folks using it (well before Crookely came along, in a number of cases) might have something to say about that.
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The only original idea behind the Mineserver is the server control panel that is supposed to be a part of it (the sexist bit about the clueless mom who is at home in the kitchen still trying to figure out her microwave.) But even that’s nothing new and, until there is some actual product showing that, there’s nothing for M$ to care about. Even then, they could simply write their own. It’s not rocket surgery.
Indeed. The whole 2nd investor pitch fell completely flat for me. “we’ve accomplished something heretofore thought impossible, which is true zero-configuration networking with any home router in America or the world”. Nothing new – practically every web-enabled security camera / nanny cam / baby monitor out there does that with the scan of a QR code. I’ve had several deployed for years but I’ve had to go to great lengths the average consumer wouldn’t know how to do to prevent their self-configuring behavior to keep them off Shodan and block direct access to them from the internet because of ridiculously easy to exploit vulnerabilities in their very-popular-because-its-very-cheap embedded webserver firmware. These Miner-Servers, should they ever appear in physical form, could easily become part of the next IOT DDOS botnet if the team hasn’t spent at least as much time working on security as they have on functionality. So far the functionality aspect is all we’ve gotten reports on.
:'(
Age quod agis.
I would like to begin by thanking you for the update. You’ve given us a status of what has been going on, explained the state of how things currently are, and renewed a little hope (in myself, anyway) that everyone may be able to soon put this all behind them (ideally with Mineservers in hand).
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That said… At this point, my only real issue is how you belittle us backers. You act like we’re completely in the wrong. While you state the words “we’re sorry about [backers feeling cheated and under-informed],” it seems you’re more apologizing/feeling sorry that we’re apparently so out of touch and wrong about you (is the story you’re painting), instead of just owning up to your behavior. Ask yourself one simple yes/no question – is it acceptable to promise regular updates (weekly, updates in a few days) then disappear for weeks/months? No caveats, no buts, the question IS as simple as that. And by far this is the ONLY question most people have been raising (in some fashion or another), over and over, questioning (lack of) communication. “Cheated” and “under-informed” (via infrequent/unreliable updates), sure, but it’s lack of simply talking to us. Especially after you tell us you will. Where’s the fault in wanting to hold you to your word?
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If yes, you find your behavior wholly acceptable, and backers don’t even deserve a “working on it, can’t talk, update later” (even if that’s repeated every couple weeks), then say that. And then people are free to agree or disagree however they’d like. But don’t paint us as the unreasonable ones with your backhanded “oh that’s a lot of updates for supposedly not doing a lot.” Childish much?
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If you don’t find that behavior acceptable, if you wouldn’t want your kids acting like that, or be treated that way yourself…. Just own up to it. It is quite liberating to simply apologize, no strings, and say you’ll do better – and then actually deliver on it.
Unanswered technical questions: When are you planning on answering the technical questions that you have been ignoring since this project began?
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Since you supposedly inserted the batteries and glued the cases shut over a year ago, what is the expected lifetime of these units?
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Supposedly the SD cards were also inserted before the cases were glued shut. So how are they being replaced?
Well obviously they’ll need to cut the cases open. Then they’ll need some more cases, which is what the original fund-raising was ostensibly for in the first place. Whaddya bet he told his new investors “If we had cases we could start shipping tomorrow”. Why not? Worked the first time, which the new group obviously had no way of discovering, what with Bob being so quiet about it for so long and all.
At first, I was smiling. I was surprised to even see a post. But the details quickly went south. Idle threats, unsubstantiated promises, and no timelines once again.
At this point, your particularly poor communication and belittlement of your once fans and backers leads to this: I don’t want the Mineserver. I don’t want a warrant for your potentially fictional new corp. I will take my $63 and then you won’t have to ship either one. Something I’ve been asking for months with no response. You’ve already made it so the bank says I have no choice but to call authorities or file small claims because of your negligence. Bad form Bob. Bad form.
Alright Lunger…then do it.
Well he has provided his lawyers details, why not fire off an demand for payment.
Best of luck to Bob and his kids!
Bob says he couldn’t give any updates for good reasons. That doesn’t ring true to me.
He could easily have announced, “There are good reasons I can’t say anything at the moment. But don’t worry, things are still happening in the background.” That wouldn’t have prejudiced anything, and it would have satisfied most of the anger here.
“We were held up waiting for suppliers who were giving us 90 percent discounts: you can’t blame them in public and expect them to take it well.”
You don’t have to blame anyone in public. What’s wrong with just saying, “We are waiting for certain supplies”?
“You can’t very easily tell 100,000 people about your screw-ups while trying to find an investor at the same time.”
So what were your screw-ups? You still haven’t told anyone. Nor was there any reason for updates to contain accounts of the screw-ups.
These are rather pitiful and devious excuses. Add to that the fact that no ‘Mineserver Corporation’ has been registered in Delaware, or even the name reserved, various vague promises, and pie-in-the-sky dreams of shipping a million mineservers and selling the business to Microsoft, and I’m left rolling my eyes.
I wouldn’t bet on any mineservers ever being shipped, especially ones that work as claimed.
One wonders how they expect to get Microsoft’s attention for a product designed for a market that might reach $100M in size, with their revenues running around $2B/month.
I may have missed it, but did Bob mention when we should expect our Mineservers?
Well done Bob! An explanation and expansion. People need to realize that kickstarter or indigogo or the others isn’t a store….it’s basically gambling, or as some say investing, in an idea that may or may not come to fruition and to get angry when it doesn’t is just plain silly…
I’m sure your boys learned a lot through all this, which is really the reason I supported it! I’d love to have a Cringly available for the next generation when the time comes…
I’ve enjoyed all your updates and wish the company the best for the future. Again well done!
Rick Beetham
@Rick Beetham There are so many of you Cringely loyals saying the exact same thing without reading/understanding what is happening it is astounding! I’ll say this slowly for you since you’re having trouble keeping up:
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We are not complaining about the lack of a product. People aren’t upset there is no product. I don’t think that sunk in so I’m going to say it one more time…there is no product and that is OKAY! The problem is how the campaign was run which, needless to say at this point, was horrible.
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If you would like to know more on the matter, simply read previous posts (and don’t just cherry pick those that are convenient to your cause). I’m sorry for being a bit blunt but there are literally 4 exact same statements in this post alone so I know you all are either not bothering to read or just don’t care.
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People attacking others without any research/understanding what is truly going on here – you sound just like Bob. I have been here for years and HAVE read every single comment from the multitude of sites this war is raging, so I feel confident that I am aware of the issue(s). But please, continue to ignore all I said and show your ignorance.
“But please, continue to ignore all I said and show your ignorance.”
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Don’t mind if i do.
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For gods sake just stop moaning and groaning , cant stand these professional complainers who get what they wanted (an update from Bob) but then just cant shut the heck up and move on with their lives.
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You really just need to be happy that some time in the future you may (or may not who gives a rats ass) actually get a product.
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I’ve not seen such whinging and complaining since Hitler invaded Poland and we all know how that ended, with Mussolini hanging naked from a lamp post.
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Thank you for proving my point.
“…cant stand these professional complainers who get what they wanted (an update from Bob) but then just cant shut the heck up and move on with their lives.”
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No, we didn’t get what we wanted — there is *still* no update on the kickstarter page. Writing here is all well and good for the handful of backers who also read his column, but does nothing for those who either never read his blog or gave up after this fiasco. So, no.
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Also, his blame-the-victim prose doesn’t sit well with a lot of us. “Oh, those silly backers, gee, how they must hate me! haha! Aren’t they so silly?”
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“You really just need to be happy that some time in the future you may (or may not who gives a rats ass) actually get a product.”
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Clearly, you don’t care. You only care about yourself, I guess. That’s fine. Now ask me if I care about your precious little comment section being overrun by disgruntled backers?
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“I’ve not seen such whinging and complaining since Hitler invaded Poland and we all know how that ended, with Mussolini hanging naked from a lamp post.”
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And here we go. I forget, are you the same callous bigot that lost via Godwin previously? Uncaring *and* ignorant. What a lovely combination.
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It’s all about Roger, hey everyone look at Roger!!!!!!!
Roger is my spirit animal. Don’t be jealous.
Seriously? You couldn’t even add the link?
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Sorry, not impressed.
The ODroid-U3 was discontinued and the dudes giving “90% discounts” (on the software required to turn this from a lump of metal into something functional) ran into problems? Perhaps the Odroid-XU4 is being tried but the software is still lagging?
The claim this product cannot be replicated because of the secret woo-woo sauce?
$90,000 on this??
My guess it it will bomb or be cloned in a week.
Bob, thanks for finally speaking up.
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I’ve always enjoyed reading your blog and look forward to the day when this distraction will be in the past. I’m not surprised one bit it went way over budget, and way over time. Welcome to the realities of manufacturing real-world things. Hopefully this thing gets off the ground quickly and you prove can finally prove all the naysayers wrong.
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Mr Sinasohn,
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I know you wont shut up, so I wont even ask. You were correct in saying that Cringely should have been communicating more, shame on him. But you made that point several months ago; since then you’ve just resorted to name calling, bullying, and accusations (none of which are proven fact). We get your frustration, but now you are just discrediting yourself.
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And for everyone else complaining about Bob’s comments towards backers, he is correct in what he said. Sorry it was not the groveling beg-for-mercy can you ever forgive me type of apology you were looking for but he did finally give a detailed update, just like you were asking for, so can we all just chill for a while now?
Hi Fishlet,
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The next time a coworker asks you a completely reasonable question – say, a status update on something you’re working on – ignore them. Or better yet, tell them you’ll have it done in a week. And when they follow-up and ask you about it, THEN ignore them. Talk to all your other co-workers, do all your other work, but ignore this one person. They may begin trying to respectfully get your attention, just wanting a status update. Eventually maybe they’ll get a little belligerent (can you blame them?), maybe lose their respectful attitude, MAYBE even start name-calling, just trying to get your attention, get an answer, since you clearly are there and hear them.
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Finally, after weeks or months, give them an answer. But as you’re answering, give them a full-armed slap across the face. Please give us an update on how that goes.
You left out: Give them the lamest, most ridiculous excuses for your behavior that you can come up with. Something like “I was bucking for a promotion! You can’t very easily tell a bunch of co-workers why your work is late while trying to impress the boss at the same time”.
While I may not disagree with you… I WAS intentionally trying to keep it as unbiased/unemotional as possible, to try to limit ammunition people can use to ignore/throw out the argument…. 🙂 But that said, yes, that particular reason (excuse) is pretty much what we were given.
Hey Brian,
Yes Bob’s handling of this project was bad, And it’s too bad you all didn’t get the kind of apology you were looking for. Funny you used that analogy of coworkers looking for an answer, because I am in that situation every day. When you get 100+ emails a day, sometimes you have to take a very deliberate approach to your communications. On the rare occasion that someone gets pissy with me in an email, that correspondence goes to bottom of my priority list… I don’t reward bad behavior.
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For those folks who come here to post their “Bob sucks” rants after every new article, you are not only abusing Bob, you are abusing the readers who come here to enjoy Bob’s articles and the resulting discussions. If this were a moderated board, your posts would be deleted as off topic (except this time). Some say Bob’s lack of response justifies their behavior, No, it does not. As a person who has no stake in MIneServer, I did nothing to deserve having my experience on this site ruined.
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Lastly, for those folks who justify their bitching in this forum as “informing the readers about Cringlys character”, what is your point? I don’t see any proof that he took the money and ran (aka Crookley). I just see someone who didn’t handle his project very well, and maybe got in a little over his head. Maybe Bob is not a Saint, but I still respect him more than all you character assassins who have joined this forum.
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* Sorry Brian, not all of that preceding comment is directed at you personally
Brian, I’m glad you started that analogy….it’s a good one. Let’s take it a step further to be truthfully representative of what’s happened here: let’s take that one co-worker who Fishlet wronged and, since he can’t get any satisfaction from Fishlet, he starts bitching and moaning and bothering his OTHER co-workers….co-workers who had no involvement whatsoever with his interaction with Fishlet….about what a bad thing Fishlet did.
He pokes his head into Bob’s office 5 times a day to tell him what a scoundrel Fishlet is. At the water cooler he continually pesters Maria and berates her to agree that Fishlet sucks because of what he did. In the middle of a project meeting with his team members (let’s call them Moe, Larry and Curly) that are trying to make progress on the project, he insists on continually trying to dominate the discussion by making it a discussion about how unfair Fishlet is (to the detriment of making progress on the project).
If the imaginary co-worker you brought up has a problem, the right thing for him to do is solve his problem with Fishlet if he can….and maybe he can or he can’t. But the WRONG thing for him to do is to try to make HIS problem into EVERYONE ELSE’S problem. That will turn his co-workers against him and, eventually, they’ll be on Fishlet’s side. And that’s what’s beginning to happen here.
As someone who is NOT a mineserver backer but also not a long time Bob follower (started reading a bit before all of this happened) – this is my unbiased take on the situation (and I’ve read every single comment about it to date):
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I actually feel the analogy is more akin to we all work for Bob, as this is his site. Sure, some operated out of a satellite office (Kickstarter backers) and others worked at head quarters (this site), but ultimately Bob is the owner of the company. Bob sends out an email and says anyone who wants to put in a little OT this year will get a sizable bonus check this year, respond if you’re interested and we’ll get you set up.
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So sure, many sign up (pay Bob to back his KS) and in fact, some workers from HQ offer to do some OT even though they aren’t interested in the bonus check, they simply love the company and think Bob is a great CEO, so want to help contribute.
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Bob says if you put in x hours you’ll get a bonus check within a few weeks. Everything is great for a month or so until Bob starts to backtrack a bit. The company was hit a bit harder than expected so he can’t afford to hand out bonuses just yet, but he wants the satellite employees to know that he’s working on it. Some people are a little frustrated as their family had been counting on that bonus for Christmas that year, but most of are understanding, as it is par for the business (Kickstarter).
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The weeks go on with more and more reasons why employees won’t receive our bonus checks and some people approach Bob and say they would love to help. Can they work more OT or have a meeting with Bob to see how they can help? Others ask to see the books, as they have experience in accounting/business and may see something Bob does not. Bob does not respond however. He shuts off the lights to his office in our satellite office, closes the door, and never returns.
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Many try to reach out to Bob via phone and email and it just goes to voicemail and they never receive a response. A few check in with HR (Kickstarter) to see if they can track down Bob to which they reply that this is not something they can help with. So while most of the company continues to run operations in the satellite office, a few take it upon ourselves to visit HQ where they are amazed to see that Bob is working here regularly as though nothing is amiss in his satellite office.
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The satellite employees try to follow up with Bob about the bonus checks to which many of the HQ workers overhear and tell them to go back to the satellite office and if we have business with Bob, send him and email or call him, but coming to HQ to talk to him is “inappropriate”. Some leave, but many stay as they feel brushed off.
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Ultimately Bob gets tired of their presence there and sends out an email (only to HQ employees, not the satellite employees) stating how annoying he finds the satellite employees and that he IS working on getting them their bonus check, it’s just…complicated. The email is posted in the break room and many satellite employees see it and are annoyed. He has not only not delivered, but now he is complaining that they are being unreasonable.
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Many satellite employees call Bob out on it and he stops talking to HQ employees by the water cooler because they keep trying to get involved in the conversation just to get a quick word with him. Bob, once again turns off the lights to his office, closes the door, and starts working from home – no longer participating in water cooler discussions with anyone. BUT as he walks out of the office, Bob sends out an email to all of the satellite employees stating that the money is in and within a week or two, they should expect to receive their bonus checks. But the checks never come and no one can find Bob anywhere.
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Bob stops by the office one more time because he forgot something and as he’s walking out the door a few satellite employees stop him and ask about the bonus checks he promised to which he responds publicly so all employees standing nearby can hear “more on that in a few days…” to which no reply ever comes…at least not for 6 months.
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Many of the HQ employees get a little annoyed at this, as their families were still promised bonus checks, so they admittedly step a little far and break into Bob’s office after hours and start to rifle through his desk because they believe something isn’t right. They find a few bits of evidence that COULD lead to some pretty damaging allegations, but nothing solid to stand on.
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They believe Bob many be embezzling the money and illegally employing individuals to simply turn around and not pay them. With Bob MIA and not responding to any direct communication and HR washing their hands of the problem, the satellite employees begin discussing some of their theories with the the HQ employees, both out of frustration and out of worry that if he is embezzling, perhaps his entire company is corrupt and we all should warn others before they take up employment here.
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Some employees hear them out, but many dismiss it and begin to state that they started working for Bob when he was a small startup and they know and respect him as a CEO. Additionally they do not feel this is appropriate workplace conduct, to which they respond that they admittedly would agree during normal situations, but they have tried all other avenues and received no response and find Bob’s actions very suspect.
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As you all know, this work place drama goes on for MONTHS. Most have moved on and never expect to receive their bonus check. It’s no longer about the bonus check. Bob occasionally sends out work emails but has not been seen in the office for over 6 months. Then he sends out the memo of all memos – he explains that he has been out of the office because he has been meeting with potential investors for the company to help get us out of the hole and believes, with their help, he will be able to pay the satellite employees their bonus checks after all. Additionally he believes he may be able to give them a little bonus cash for having to wait so long.
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This is all great news, but unfortunately if you continue reading you will see that Bob goes on to complain about the satellite employees which doesn’t do much for already poor employee morale, and also gives no estimated timeline of when this will happen. Additionally, a few cautious satellite employees look on the shared drive where Bob says he saved some documents outlining the new business partnership contracts to which we see nothing in the folder (re: Delaware Corp scandal).
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This leaves us close to exactly where we started – satellite employees feeling like they are receiving more empty promises from a CEO who has not been conducting himself well and has been berating them and HQ employees who state – if you are unhappy at your workplace, just quit. Stop trying to bring us down with you.
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Honestly, I can see both sides of the story and believe that BOTH sides have some ground to stand on and make very valid points. I believe both sides have made mistakes, and both sides have some legitimacy, but I also believe that at the core of all of this – Bob is the one who through his actions, and inactions, led everyone down this path and that, with proper communication, better transparency, and more decency to which he spoke to some of his employees, could have avoided all of this, irrelevant to whether the bonus checks were handed out or not.
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At this point most don’t care about the bonus checks, they just want to make sure Bob knows they feel mistreated as employees and to ensure that no one else ever works for Bob again unless he’s willing to go through some training courses and prove he’s reformed and learned from this ordeal. I’m sure I overlooked some analogous things but that’s my take on it. Do with it what you will…
Not bad! I would nitpick the paragraph about breaking into Bob’s office after hours and rifling through his desk because nothing remotely like that ever happened – the character research you’re referring to which was reported on these pages was sourced from publicly-available records.
Well said.
Thanks.
“But you made that point several months ago; since then you’ve just resorted to name calling, bullying, and accusations (none of which are proven fact). We get your frustration, but now you are just discrediting yourself.”
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I didn’t think I was bullying anyone (except maybe Crookely) and the only name-calling I’ve done is directed at Crookely (oops, there I go again!). I don’t think I’ve made any unproven accusations either. But, if I did, I apologize; please point me to them and I will post a reply apologizing there.
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You say I made my point several months ago and perhaps I did, as far as you are concerned. But apparently, Crookely didn’t get the point. So while I may be tilting at windmills, as long as my typing speed holds up, I’ll keep trying to make that point.
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Lastly, I doubt anyone here has ever heard of me — any opera goers? (I did three operas with SF Opera and sang with the SF Symphony.) Any vintage computer collectors or historians? (I used to be pretty active in that world and have some rather collections.) Howsabout parents? (I used to write for some high-profile parenting blogs.)
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But these days the only credit I look for is for producing three amazing, intelligent, talented kids. So I really don’t care what anyone here thinks of me. I’ve got my kids and, frankly, they’re better than yours. 8^)
Ah yes, your resumé—we’re all so, so impressed you found a way to tell us more about yourself. (yaaaawn). We knew you at “Ass, Narcissistic Ass”.
Silly rabbit – ad hominem is for kids!
This still does not count as a Kickstarter Mineserver updated because it is NOT on the Kickstarter Mineserver project site. Last update Update #25 Nov 10 2016 AMP is finally ready!!!!
From Kickstarter- About the creator: Mineserver LLC Santa Rosa, CA, Mary Alyce Neader Stephens Last login Sep 15 2016 Is the Kickstarter project abandoned?
One other point.
I often talk with early stage startups, pre funding, seed funding stages etc ( I’m the guy who churns out real prototypes, proof of concepts, proof of technology, ports, weird stuff very very quickly ) and quite frankly I’d been in this game far too long to take Kickstarter seriously when it first popped up about 5 or 6 years. Sounded very much like a typical fad idea. Over the years I’ve heard Kickstarter mentioned by some clients as a potential seed fiance source but in future I will direct anyone thinking of going the Kickstarter route for seed money to read this site as a warning as to why you never ever want to go the Kickstarter route. If what I have seen here over the last few years is any indication of the sort of obnoxious crap you have to deal with from your “investors”.
You guys make dealing with the sleaziest dot com bubble 3’th tier bottom feeder VC look good in comparison. Thats how bad you look.
Hi jmc,
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Please advise your clients to make promises to their investors. Then tell your clients to NOT fulfill said promises (hey, there could be a good reason for it). But then lastly, advise your clients to, under no circumstance, communicate to their investors. For at least a couple months. But still publicly talk to everyone else, about any other topic. Make it clear they’re alive and well and living life. But ignore their investors.
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Please update us on how the investors reacted, and what your clients thought of your advice.
You’re not damn investors. You’re just people who bough a lottery ticket that had a potential payoff of a product. Thats all. That is what Kickstarter really is. A product lottery. You put in your money, and maybe there will be a product at the end. Or maybe not.
You know exactly the what and the why of the company. It was a kids project. To go on and as if your little pre-purchase option is anything important just shows how pathetic and small minded you people are. What a bunch of losers. Because thats what you guys really sound like.
As I said, what the last few years of reading you guys whine on and on about this subject has convinced me is that Kickstarter is totally toxic. Like so much online, the large majority of people are reasonable and nice but the very small minority of cranks and moaners ruin it for everyone. So just not worth it given the small sums involved.
If any company came to me with a problem like the one Bob has got himself I would tell them , give a full refund to everyone who complains. And dont make it optional. To make them go away. They will never be satisfied and will just make your life a misery and greatly reduce the chances of the quiet majority actually getting the product in their hands if it does work out in the end.
It was your Cringely camp who initially compared us to investors and started calling us that outright. So we start to use your vocabulary to ensure that we’re all speaking the same language and we get ridiculed for it? This is a fun song and dance we’re doing…
This site is not Kickstarter. People complaining here(about 1%) likely paid based on Cringely’s posts here. So now you are blaming Kickstarter for what happened at Cringely’s blog.
Here, here JMC.
Where, where, Byron C. Rochester?
(No, I’m not going to apologize for pointing out an error of literacy.)
Or, in today’s world, quite possibly a voice to text translation error. I’ve had that same one happen to me before. 😉
I’m not sure “hear, hear” makes anymore sense, when it comes to the written word. 🙂
@jmc – Kickstarter launched on April 28, 2009, by Perry Chen, Yancey Strickler, and Charles Adler.
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Not 5 or 6 years ago. Your math is a useful as the rest of your comments. Even though you have now written more on this project than Mark has in the last 6 months.
Except it is not typical. This site is not Kickstarter, and from what I gather, Cringely gave very little in the way of updates on the Kickstarter site. So you should advise people, Kickstarter is OK, but don’t make promises you can’t keep, and if you do get into trouble don’t be quiet about them.
@jmc
Kickstarter has had a TON of success stories. Pebble got their start there. MST3K funded an entire new season of episodes there that are now on Netflix. I’ve funded about a dozen projects there and only one has gone nowhere. Some of those projects that I funded were a year late. It happens. If you go into it thinking that you are potentially burning your money in the fireplace, and the creators have no obligation to tell you anything at all, you will be much happier in the long run.
I did not fund Bob’s Mineserver project, but it seemed just as reasonable as any other, and apparently is still active. Hopefully the backers will get their product.
Under those terms, no, Kickstarter is not a fad. Please don’t make the fallacy of sweeping generalizations from your view into one data point.
the update has happened. now there are mineserver folks engaging in arguments with non-mineserver folks with the apparent goal of convincing them of their righteousness.
guys, your argument is with Bob/Mark, not other cringelydotcom visitors.
he’s not commenting here. not even sure he’s reading the comments.
but you’re not improving the dialogue at all, not changing anyone’s minds. i don’t understand the purpose behind anything other than “thanks for the update,” or “i still want a ship date,” or “when can we get the next update” comments…IMO, they’re just wasted effort.
if a non-mineserver commenter says something supportive of Bob/Mark, it’s not a blight on your character. why do you feel the overarching desire to convert everyone to your perspective? seems like your time could be better spent elsewhere.
…and this is coming from a mineserver backer…if I don’t agree with you, what likelihood do you have to convert folks outside that experience?
can we ALL just move the eff on?
@Ray T:
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Are you responding to someone in particular? Who do you think you’ll convert?
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What I’m seeing are commenters initiating unprovoked attacks on backers with stuff like “If what I have seen here over the last few years is any indication of the sort of obnoxious crap you have to deal with from your ‘investors’.You guys make dealing with the sleaziest dot com bubble 3’th tier bottom feeder VC look good in comparison.”, as if yet another round of lame excuses and vague promises to ship on the old Ponzi plan in any way invalidates their complaints, and the backers (often politely) defending themselves.
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Lucy’s spotting the football again and everyone’s giving Charlie Brown shit for complaining about the last time.
I’m just commenting on how you guys sound to someone in the business who has followed the whole sorry saga from the very beginning.
I suppose my lack of any sympathy for the incessant whiners is also colored by the fact that I’ve had direct experience of the music business, from the tech / engineering side, for almost as long as I’ve been in hi-tech. So as a result I make a big distinction between audience, ordinary folk who go to shows, have a good time, and are always pleasant for the performers to deal with, and fans, who are usually Ok’ish, but have a very strong tendency to think that just because they “buy all your CD’s” and “go to all your shows” that they somehow have some sort of special relationship with the musician.That they can make intrusive and usually unreasonable demands on the musician and their time.
And the small number of persistent posters here sound and act remarkably like the far too many crank music fans I’ve had to deal with in the past before and after live shows. While acting as a buffer between them and the musicians. In fact the fastest way of getting the contempt of people who have to deal with this stuff on a regular basis is to say to a performer – I’m you biggest fan in a slightly breathless tone and with that scary glint in the eye.
So yes, fans, cannot stand the annoying bastards. And the same seems to go for those who continue to make a big deal about what is such an unimportant subject as some punt they made a few years ago on a very experimental tech project.
You are too busy presenting your bonafides to read what people are writing to you.
Nobody is mad that they don’t have a Mineserver yet. They’re mad because of the drip feed “hey, its right around the corner now” updates that seem like they must have been riddled with untruths in retrospect, followed by months of radio silence.
I started a website/entertainment product many years ago that now has thousands of readers and users. Over that timeline, I have occasionally been too optimistic with product timelines and been blindsided by unforeseen events which caused delays in a product. That is never fun and it always sucks. But I’ve found that I’ve gotten the best results when I spend a few minutes every so often letting the customers know a bit about where we’re stuck and what we’re doing about it. If I’ve already accepted money from them, that becomes all the more important (again, we’re not talking about shipping the completed product, we’re only talking about communication about production status). And the incidence of customers feeling overly entitled has not been common; basic communication is more than enough for most.
I’m sorry you’ve had such a difficult time with certain fans in your previous professional history but I do not think that is what is going on here.
@jmc:
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“I’m just commenting on how you guys sound”
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I can’t help about the shape I’m in
I can’t sing, I ain’t pretty and my legs are thin
But don’t ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to
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Oh Well…
Bob said
“…we’ve accomplished something heretofore thought impossible, which is true zero-configuration networking with any home router in America or the world”
Mate, you’ve accomplished NOTHING as yet. Not one router/server/doodad/whatever has shipped.
We know what single board computer matches the specification and videos. We know zero configuration networking is a solved problem. I am trying very hard to square Bob’s Hollywood accounting with the fact a single box hasn’t shipped.
Is there any independently verifiable proof Bob’s Kickstarter promo vids aren’t just very carefully staged mock ups?
To quell rumours Bob should offer to have whatever he does have working at this point in time be independently audited.
Secrecy is not confidentiality. What is Bob hidiing?
This entire enterprise seems to me little more than a sad reminder of precisely what the Road to Hell is paved with.
This could very well be! I wondered about this yesterday when I pondered similar trials and tribulations some or all of us have lived through and how on earth did I wind up being a prostitute. It’s kinda easy to judge, yah know? It can also be a very small world too.
Now., a £50 micro-desktop (and/or four bay NAS) based on a Raspberry Pi iteration as and when it gets a specification bump this I would buy.
@Bob/Cringely Since you are no longer in hiding, I would like to propose that you take some time out of your day and address some of the concerns on this post/blog. You could either do it here directly or there has got to be a site where people can log on as a big forum/chat and we can try to have a conversation with you. We would invite both the Kickstarter backers and the Cringely readers to the conversation. It could get hectic, I will admit, but at least we can get some things on the table and get acknowledgement from you that you care and want to rectify this.
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You stated why you were in hiding, but those reasons are no longer in effect so you should officially be out of hiding now and be willing to post in the comments section again (like you used to do semi-regularly). I would love for you to act on that and begin a dialogue with the backers as a sign of good faith so we can start to move past this.
“This is where we had to be quiet, because publishing the details I am sharing here could have imperiled negotiations.”
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“But that wasn’t the only reason for keeping quiet. We were held up waiting for suppliers who were giving us 90 percent discounts: you can’t blame them in public and expect them to take it well.”
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Okay, let’s stipulate, for the moment, that you needed to maintain radio silence. But now I’m confused. If that were the case, why would you say “Touché. More on that in a few days.” on January 10?
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Were you trying to keep your backers quiet long enough to get your funding? Were you taunting your backers? Was that prior to your “lawyering up” as you put it?
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I’m sure, if what you say about not being able to update your backers is true, that there is an explanation for that rather enigmatic comment. I’d love to hear it.
As a self-proclaimed expert with irrelevant credentials, I don’t see any problem. He said more on that in a few days, and then only 132 days later he’s delivered an honest, credible and complete update addressing every imaginable legitimate concern his backers might have had. He’s even offered a humble, sincere and heartfelt apology for the minor delay that made me weep. You degenerate ingrates are just too stupid to understand Kickstarter. If you want timely updates for why your order, promised in two weeks (for the umpteenth time) over 28 weeks ago, is late, you should shop Amazon instead.
If you read and understood the information contained in the comments and dedicated websites about the problem, you’d realize that the issue has nothing to do with the risks of Kickstarter, but with Bob’s credibility. If the credibility is lacking, this article, and everything it says or promises, is meaningless.
@ Ronc,
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Hey that was me trying to be funny again. Catch the name I used. Musta been a pretty good impersonation – it had you going!
I’m a little confused as to what suppliers would give 90% discounts and why.
Dealer: “This battery only lasts 9 months but can be purchased for a 90% discounted rate. It’s good enough to get the product out the door, get your money, and wash your hands clean of it far before anyone realizes any corners were cut.”
Cringely: “Sold!”
I note the plural. He’s claiming that more than one supplier was giving 90% discounts. Walmart doesn’t even get rates like that. I wouldn’t find that very plausible coming from my most trusted source. If there’s any truth at all in it, there must be a lot more to the story.
Anyone tried contacting Doug Carlston for verification?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Carlston : “In May 2017, Carlston was announced as a principal advisor of MineServer Corporation, which produces servers that autoconfigure to routers for the purpose of playing Minecraft.”
If you look at the page history, you will see that the source of that Wikipedia info is this post, right here on Bob’s blog.
“Added position at Mineserver as announced by Robert Cringely on his blog” – May 25, 2017.
See xkcd:
Citogenesis
Great observation! Is it possible that Bob added that himself? XKCD is saying even Wikipedia can contribute to circular reasoning.
That’s funny, because there is no MineServer Corporation. At least not a Delaware Corporation as claimed. According to the state’s website, anyone who wants to can reserve that name for $75.
You too can own a Mineserver Corporation for the same price as a discounted Mineserver.
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So we basically bought one for Bob and he/his lawyer couldn’t bother to file? Or is Delaware just being lazy and not updated their site?
Well the Delaware site states that the website database is updated in real time.
So either the paperwork was filed but has not finished process/approval. Or…nothing was actually done but the the discussion.
“Herb told us to turn Mineserver LLC into Mineserver Corporation, a Delaware C-Corp like all the other Sand Hill Road darlings. That took time and money we didn’t have. ”
Parsing the above one could infer that it was eventually done since the follow on sentence is in the past tense. However, nothing is explicitly stated that Herb’s advice was actually implemented. (Which it apparently was not…at least not yet…)
Hopefully we’ll see an entry out there soon. I want Bob to ship these Mineservers so that these Kickstarter comments will end in this blog.
@S.Gloom:
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There are several claims in Cringely’s post that could have quite different (opposite, even) meanings depending on how they are parsed. The wording is very unclear, particularly coming from someone with his linguistic background. I can only assume that is intentional, and designed to mislead.
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“we’ve spent just under $90,000 in all, which is as much as my poor old retirement account could stand”
Several people took this at face value, assuming that Cringely had invested $90k of his own money, even though it’s part of the same sentence acknowledging the collection of $30k from Kickstarter and elsewhere in the article more successful fundraising has been claimed, so it is completely unclear how much of that $90k came out of some “poor old retirement account”.
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“(you can’t ship products if you can’t afford to pay for shipping)” and “we’ve found just enough investors to move on to the next level, which is first shipping our current orders”
Many of us assumed this meant the original Mineservers and Mineserver Pros are finally complete and ready to ship. But he didn’t actually come out and say that, and nobody has reported having received one yet or even email confirming the ship-to address, so probably not.
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Even given the fuzziness of the corporation claim, it doesn’t make sense that the corporate name has not even been reserved yet when it only costs $75 to do so and not reserving it leaves it open for someone else to take. I see no other alternative but to chalk this up as yet another false (or at least unverified when it should be verifiable) claim.
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“Hopefully we’ll see an entry out there soon. I want Bob to ship these Mineservers so that these Kickstarter comments will end in this blog.”
I’d like to see that too, but I’ve seen enough shenanigans so far that I don’t hold out much hope. This “update” doesn’t really bring us up to date on the current status of the original Mineserver project at all. As far as anyone can tell, the current status is exactly the same as it has been since the most recent update on the official Kickstarter page from last November, same as it has been since at least mid-December 2015: 99% complete and shipping “soon”.
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Speaking of the official Kickstarter page, the fact that he has failed to update there after being reminded multiple times here confirms my suspicion that his “radio silence” should be more properly attributed to petulance rather than the incredibly (in the literal sense of the term) lame excuses he gave here for 6 months of refusal to communicate. I can only assume that he’s decided he’s done with Kickstarter altogether and will never update there.
Actually, I added that. I wanted to see if it would change with Wikipedia’s biographical edit rules, maybe someone would try and verify it.
[…] And then finally Cringely stepped up to the podium and posted an update on his blog. […]
Well said! Thanks for taking the time to write this out.
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I agree, especially appreciate you breaking down the prices and Cringely trying to play the victim with that. Many Kickstarters either take a hit to get the product out, knowing they will profit from it in the future, or they get closer to break even/minimal profit. If he screwed that up, that’s on him. Don’t guilt us about it…
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Also very true about Cringely’s style of communication. He likes to talk at you, not with you. Kickstarter doesn’t work well with that dynamic when shit hits the fan and people want answers if no one is listening.
Well said! For those who are old and clueless like me, click on the linked user name “Mineserver – It Could Still Happen | The Ancient Gaming Noob” above.
Excellent summary of events and a well-stated argument for the position that Cringely and his apologists, forever trying to tell the rest of us how it works, just don’t get KickStarter.
Maybe the first time I’ve seen a trackback here and clicked on it. And it’s true: Bob has been complaining about his unsatisfied kickstarter backers almost from the beginning:
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1. Telling them he didn’t post any updates for weeks because “there’s nothing to report.”
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2. Almost exactly a year ago he was calling them “unforgiving,” implying they were “unreasonable”: https://www.cringely.com/2016/05/31/first-seeking-alpha-post-ran-today/
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The first comment deserves an extensive quote:
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“Actually, Kickstarter backers tend to be very forgiving. They were just expecting someone that supposedly ‘communicates’ for a living would actually provide communication during the prolonged Kickstarter journey. If there had been a posting every two weeks during the period I don’t believe any backer would have been upset. So denigrating the backers for your failure to communicate seems grossly unfair. I’m surprised that you just don’t seem to ‘get it’.”
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3. Kickstarter’s terms of service bar the distribution of shares of a company or kickstarter being used as an investment vehicle. While this seems to imply that any the crowdfunding itself isn’t meant to be used to sell shares in something, the language is porous enough that I can’t imagine a real lawyer would think that handing out warrants/options/shares just for funzies because you still can’t manage to afford $500 for postage or even the $0 to ask people’s current address to send their bonus Mineserver LLC shirts (which doesn’t seem to exist in Nevada, either) is a good idea. https://www.kickstarter.com/rules
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“Investment is not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can’t offer incentives like equity, revenue sharing, or investment opportunities.”
This whole thing is a mindf#ck of the highest order. I can only guess that Bob is making a transition into an obnoxious, Andy Kaufman-style comedian who plans to antagonizes his audience as part of a routine.
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The aggro attitude is totally out of key for a post that presumes to be informative and constructive. You got half of them anyway. A “what we’ve learned” section would have been appropriate and most likely have a grudgingly positive response. Instead: pitchforks, angry mobs! This isn’t even the first time you’ve talked about them like this.
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Most of these people only bought this because they’re your fans, Bob. Seriously, let that sink in. It isn’t like you gave them a little and it wasn’t enough. You gave them nothing and then went out of your way to refuse to comment and then yelled at them for not being more understanding.
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Second is claiming this pitchfork-wielding mob *of your fans and customers* weren’t satisfied by his 26 updates. Bob, the project is by my math 19 months old. The last SIX months were completely silent. For 1/3rd of the project you just refused to talk to them. I would have been one of those fans that bought it just to support you had I known about it.
I’ve been awaiting your take on this post and I must say, you did not disappoint. The Andy Kaufman parallel – so apropos!
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I know I’ve given the guy a hard time, but still I would REALLY like to root for him, and especially his kids. I truly hope they succeed in the end. But then comes more of the same ol’ same ol’ – the tone, the excuses that don’t quite make sense, the famous techie consultant name-drop, the vague promise to finally deliver who knows when, the fact-check failure where searches for the new corporate name asserted thrice in the update come up empty for both Delaware and California. As you’ve often observed, this whole thing has been surreal, taking on this weird performance-art aura. Who can guess what will happen next?
[…] And then finally Cringely stepped up to the podium and posted an update on his blog. […]
Backing this project didn’t bankrupt anyone. Nor was it bought for a backer — it was for their kids. Like mine, who’ve remembered and ASKED why this wasn’t under the tree — TWO YEARS IN A ROW!
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This wasn’t a “gamble”, it was sold as a READY-TO-SHIP project, by someone with a long history in the field, on the basis of reputation. Failure to ship ANYTHING is bad; failure to communicate with backers rubs salt in the wound.
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Cringely is a writer, not a businessman. He has deadlines to meet, not payroll. He pleases editors, not customers. He crafts words, not products.
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Don’t hold your breath on delivery — of anything.
When are you all (both sides of this war) ever going to realize that this Kickstarter makes more for Bob unfinished than completed. He gets more hits, more commentsn, and more action on a downward trending website. The “complainers” and the “complainers of complainers” are playing right into his hand. There is only ONE reason to post an update about Mimeserver to this page and not even reference the post on the actual Kickstarter site…. he doesn’t get credit for clicks there.
If you want this war to stop on this blog… stop playing into it. As parents tell their kids, as hard as it is you have to ignore the bullies and they will eventually go away. The reason complainers come here is they are just people that want to have their voice heard. Bob COULD manage that on the Kickstarter site or even delete posts here, but he doesnt… Why? Because he needs these hits.
Actually, the reason “complainers” come hear is because if we can make the comments section of Crookely’s blog so unbearable for everyone else, perhaps they’ll go elsewhere, cutting into Crookely’s clicks. Eventually, if his bottom line bottoms out, perhaps he’ll take notice.
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Or, since we don’t have a mineserver to play with, we come here.
I get it Roger; really, I am one of the earliest “complainers.” I can not fathom another reason that he A. would post updates to this site and not Kickstarter, B. filter NONE of the complaints, and C. continues to proclaim that the project is still “alive.” There is no logical reasoning in it.
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Hell, I only come her FOR the moaning and bitching.
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Before you whiners came this was a pretty standard boring blog, now its so cringey I can’t not watch. Like a fat guy falling over or Donald Trump.
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So kept it up I say, even when (if, whatever) you get your toys, I’m loving the drama.
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Pretty sure Bob hasn’t monetised his blog though can’t recall seeing any adds or links.
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People come here for a nice cordial dining experience, but we are making the wait time horrendous, getting in fights at the bar with the locals, and generally making the restaurant detestable to visit, which once was a hot destination.
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While you are correct that the restaurant sales may boom for a bit with the packed seats, eventually the loyal diners will leave if they find their once pleasant experience is ruined (except maybe for those who swear by the food or love the drama). If Cringely doesn’t do anything he will find his restaurant vacant and irrelevant given enough time. As it currently stands, we’re not going anywhere. *plants butt firmly in seat*
@Backer 826 – As much as I’m not a defender of Mark, I have to ask the question “why do you think that he ‘needs’ the hits?” There aren’t any ads on this site and since it only consists of his writings, I doubt that it would have much resale value without him. Of course, more hits could just be feeding his ego. Also, maybe one of his postings will get someone to hire him for a consulting or speaking project.
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I’m figuring that he is hoping that anyone that finds this blog will only read his posts and ignore the comments. If you only read his posts, he comes across as a saint that knows everything and everyone.
I think we have a corollary to Sayre’s Law: “This thread is so intense because the stakes are so low.”
LOL – after reading all the thread comments, that made me laugh. I’ll have to remember that!
Caveat: I’ve invested in other kickstarter projects both those that have had no updates and no product, lots of updates and no product, few if any updates and a product, lots of updates and a product, and frankly, I’m still living, and never, not once, has the the lack of an update or status of a product impacted my behavior or attitude . There’s things to worry and care about. For me, Kickstart projects has never been one. Enjoy!
FWIW: “Sayre usually stated his claim as ‘The politics of the university are so intense because the stakes are so low’ ” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law
1. There is nothing in the article about having solved the various technical issues that cropped up (on what was SUPPOSED to be a ready-to-ship product).
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2. There is no explanation for how they managed to spend THREE TIMES what they collected. Mostly likely explanation is programmer/consultant fees, to solve tech issues.
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3. There has been no call to backers to test a working version.
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4. Were shipping cost the only obstacle, then 400 backers @5 each for box & postage is $2,000, hardly worth hiring three lawyers for; that won’t cover even ONE retainer. Not even double that amount.
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Q.E.D. The product still isn’t ready. A fact conveniently left out of the article, which smells like a “Hail Mary” pass.
Kaftan fiyatları işçiliğe ve işlemelere göre farklılık göstermektedir. Özellikle son zamanlarda bir çok kişi çoğunlukla kiralık kaftan fiyatları hakkında bilgi sahibi olmak istemektedir. Bunu nedeni ise bir gün giyildikten sonra daha çok anı olarak saklanmasıdır.
http://bagdatkaftan.com/kaftan-fiyatlari/
My comment keeps being marked as spam, so I’m going to try splitting it into two parts.
Part 1.
Here’s my take on the Mineserver situation.
Bob is a writer and media person, not a techie or a businessman.
He’s been writing about tech, making documentaries, and chatting with and interviewing top people in the industry for decades. He’s written a lot about startups, venture capital, industry-changing products, etc.
… Yet there’s also a lot of sensationalist crap in his writings (e.g. Fukushima sinking into the center of the earth or whatever, recently on this blog), and he has a slippery relationship with facts… they tend to shade into fantasies.
But let’s forget about all that, because his tech gossip, news, inspiration, and insights can be superb. That’s probably the reason most of us are here. He’s like the little girl who “when she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad she was horrid.”
However…
◦ There’s no evidence that Bob has ever written a line of code in his life.
◦ He has never founded a startup, or run any tech business venture before.
◦ He has never managed a tech project where there were programmers reporting to him.
After decades of writing authoritatively and grandly about startups, and being on first-name terms with tech billionaires and highly successful people in the industry – he finally decided to dip his own toe into the water with a very tiny, relatively simple startup.
Interestingly my reply (short & largely agreeing with your idea of a book) has been disappeared too. I’m more inclined to blame it on the commenting plug-in.
I too have had many comments flagged as spam. I have gone into the practice of copying and pasting everything into a text editor just to ensure that I don’t have to retype it all should it be flagged as spam for whatever reason. I’d be curious to see what their spam criteria is…
Outsourcing would be brutal after all his columns complaining about it, including blaming it for the Target hack.
Part 2.
My best guess about what’s happened is this:
The Mineserver boxes don’t work for some reason. They ‘should’ work, but there are various problems. Bob can’t fix it, and he doesn’t even know where to start. He is not a geek, he just writes about geeks. His kids are smart and cute and computer-savvy, but they are not professional software developers. They can’t fix the problems either.
Bob hires someone to fix it. Maybe he goes to an outsourcing site and hires someone from India, or Singapore, or the Ukraine. (That way, when it’s done he can claim he did it himself.) But the problems still don’t get fixed. For every problem that’s fixed, two new ones crop up. He hires somebody different. The money goes down a black hole and the product is still not working.
Bob doesn’t want to admit this failure to himself, to his kids, to his readers, or to the people who invested in his project. After so many years of covering successful startups and billion dollar businesses, he doesn’t want to admit that he’s in over his head in the baby paddling pool. He’s just plain embarrassed, and he wishes it would all just go away. So he starts peddling snake oil in an effort to cover it up.
In fact, what he should really do now is what he’s good at. He should write a very funny, self-deprecating account of this, with all the perils of going down the tech rabbit hole. He could make it into a book by adding humorous anecdotes about startup failures. We all know how Steve Jobs started in a garage (and how Bob was employee number something-or-other), now let’s hear about all the weird and wonderful startups that stayed in the garage. I’m sure that book would do well.
“Yes, we raised $34,000 on KickStarter which netted us $30,000 and has many people pissed-off”
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So wrong, and he damn well knows it.
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Besides the $1452 mismatch between what he says they raised and what Kickstarter says (that’s some weird rounding there, Bob), besides the whittling to an obviously further rounded-down net figure (my math based on Kickstarter’s publicly posted fees and accounting of the backers’ contributions comes to $32,538.24 – more weird rounding), besides the subsequent rounding UP (no way to determine how weirdly) of the money-spent figure and vague wording about where the rest of it came from – these are trivial exaggerations of the sort we’ve all come to expect.
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Nobody is “pissed off” because of the money raised on Kickstarter. People are rightly pissed off because Cringely broke a golden rule of social behavior – he over-hyped, over-promised and (to say the least) under-delivered. It’s supposed to be the other way around, Bob. Read the linked article for an excellent explanation for why so many people are so pissed off.
evden eve nakliyat ankara da evden eve nakliyat şehirlerarası ev taşıma işlemi için rumuzu tıklayın yeter.
https://betanews.com/author/bobcringley/
Someone on the Kickstarter site pointed this out. BetaNews has the exact copy of all of the Cringely.com post on their ad supported site. Do you think Bob supports this or knows about it? Maybe he is getting click money from this site and others like it that copy his posts? Or, are they just stealing his writing?
BTW- Update 26 still not on the Kickstarter Mindserver site…
haha wow, and and looks like there are people commenting, but none about the Mineserver. Maybe Bob loyalists should go there to avoid us (exactly what they want), that way Bob will lose his following and it may light a fire underneath him to get solve this fiasco.
Is there a “Whiney Little Bitches” filter that I am not aware of?
Obviously not. Yours got right through.
June 4, 2017
How do I invest in Mineserver?
Thanks, John Meidell
Go here and click the Donate button.
Gebze’den tüm İstanbul’un semtleri dahil, Kocaeli,Yalova bölgelerine normal gönderim ile 3-3.5 saat, acil gönderim 1.5 saat’de teslimat edilmektedir. Vip kurye hizmeti ile bu süre 60 dakika’ya kadar inmektedir. Süreler ortalama süreleri temsil etmektedir. Uzun mesafeli gönderiler için bu süreler geçerli değildir. Gebze kurye, 20 yıldır kurye sektöründe hizmet vermektedir.
tuzla moto kurye hizmetleri ile hızlı ve güvenli motorlu kurye hizmeti alabilirsiniz. Moto kurye’ler çağımızın derdi trafik ile başa çıkabilmeniz için son derece önemli bir hizmettir. Kurye hizmet sektöründe 20 yıldır güven taşıyoruz.
So typically American to hire a multitude of lawyers to cover behind all sorts of legal institutions, when you should have just bit the bullet and shipped your product!
Sure you would have made a loss, but at least you had a working product with happy clients out there.
There is literally no person in this world right now who will buy one of your Mineservers, after they know that everyone else who had one waited years for a product that they aren’t interested in anymore. That’s not how hype works.
And besides, pretty sure Minecraft as a Videogame is very slowly dying. By the time this product ships, if it ever does, people will have lost interested completely.
Re: “Sure you would have made a loss, but at least you had a working product with happy clients out there.” We don’t know that, from all we can tell from Bob’s current posts, the product isn’t ready to ship. Of course, a refund could have been offered but that’s not how Kickstarter works. The concern now, is whether or not Bob can be taken at his word in this column, since previous promises have not been kept, and the Kickstarter site has not been updated since November, 2016. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/583591444/mineservertm-a-99-home-minecraft-server/updates
hi. from korea.
im so sorry but i need my money back.
i cant hear any information from you
and you said that ‘you can get product when christmas’ but this is 2017
my friends are doesnt playing minecraft anymore
i really need my money back.. plz.
i live korea, dont have anything what can legally solution
what i need is your mercy.
i hope your reply (e-mail adress plz)
i want my money back please
please reply my e-mail adress
So in essence, you complain about running out of money but yet also state you couldn’t try to get more money out of Kickstarter backers because you lied to the people who believed in your product and vision enough to shell over part of your startup costs, then you state you lost major players who were helping create the servers because you lied again and threw them under the bus like if it was their fault, then you consider KS backers a complete nuisance when you disappear after stating the product is ready for shipping (back in 2016)… a product that is intended for children, mind you. Mine got so tired of waiting that they don’t even remember I bought it for them. And THEN you wonder why everyone is upset? Are you kidding? You admittedly take absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for any of your actions. You hired lawyers. I think that’s funny. All of this could have been simply avoided by being HONEST to begin with. KS backers believed in your idea, so that’s your own fault for not being transparent. You would have received tons of support and possibly more backing by being honest. I know I would have supported. I can respect honesty, but you sir, have lost all respect with your actions. I wish you would place yourself in your backers shoes, and think about how you would feel – how your children would feel. All of your actions are deplorable.