Starting in 1977 I bought a new personal computer every three years. This changed after 2010 when I was 33 years and eleven computers into the trend. That’s when I bought my current machine, a mid-2010 13-inch MacBook Pro. Five years later I have no immediate plans to replace the MacBook Pro and I think that goes a long way to explain why the PC industry is having sales problems.
My rationale for changing computers over the years came down to Moore’s Law. I theorized that if computer performance was going to double every 18 months, I couldn’t afford to be more than one generation behind the state-of-the-art if I wanted to be taken seriously writing about this stuff. That meant buying a new PC every three years. And since you and I have a lot in common and there are millions of people like us, the PC industry thrived.
It helped, of course, that platforms and applications weren’t always backward-compatible and that new MIP-burning apps appeared with great regularity. But to some extent those times are past. Productivity applications have stalled somewhat and really powerful applications are moving to the cloud. But there’s something more, and that’s a robust industry of third-party upgraders offering to help us modernize the PCs we already own.
When my mid-2010 MacBook Pro hit its third birthday I could have bought a new one for $1200 but instead I upgraded the memory and hard drive, going from 4 gigs and 240 gigs of each to 16 gigs and a 1 TB hybrid drive. My MacBook was reborn! It helped, I must admit, that I purely by chance had bought the only 2010 model that could be upgraded to 16-gigs of RAM. The total cost was $300, I made the changes myself, and not a penny went to Cupertino.
Earlier this year I replaced the battery for $80 (it wasn’t dead but showing signs of distress and the new battery has 50 percent more capacity). And just this week I replaced my first mechanical component to actually wear out — the keyboard. The replacement cost $25 with free shipping and included a new backlight that I didn’t actually need. This makes my total investment in the MacBook about $1605 for a device that has so far given me at least 10,000 hours of use. That works out to $0.16 per hour for my primary professional tool — a tool that somehow supports five people and two dogs.
It’s the greatest bargain in the history of work.
That keyboard had to go. First the e-key began to fade where my fingernail had pounded it approximately 200,000 times per year. But the e, itself, never failed. That was left to the a and the t, which looked fine but came to work intermittently. I’d pound away at that God-damned a, especially, until I could stand it no more.
But replacing a MacBook Pro keyboard is not a simple task, which is why I waited so long. If you go to the Apple Store they’ll swap-out the entire top case of the computer for $300+ which is crazy for a device that’s only worth about that on Craigslist. But buying a used model on Craigslist isn’t good, either, because that keyboard will be five years old, also.
Nope, I had to dig-in and replace the keyboard myself.
Here’s the problem: in order to replace a MacBook Pro keyboard you have to remove and then replace SEVENTY-ONE TINY SCREWS. No sane person wants to do that, but it had to be done. It took me about two hours to accomplish thanks to the YouTube video that showed me exactly what to do.
Blame YouTube for enabling this DIY trend.
You don’t want to know the detritus I found under and in that keyboard. Suffice it to say that I’m surprised PCs don’t attract bedbugs. Maybe they do?
Following the keyboard replacement and giving my trackpad a bath in 99 percent alcohol, my MacBook is now running better than new, which is not to say it is running as well as a new model. The 2010 nVIDIA graphics aren’t very good for one thing. I have a Raspberry Pi that streams video better. The SD card reader has stopped working, too, but I never used that until last week and an external card reader works fine.
So I probably will buy a new computer — two years from now. I hope Cupertino can wait.
My day job is computationally intensive; however, I have a 3-yr-old 16-core Xeon on my desk, and I seldom have to wait a significant amount of time for a run to finish. First time in 25+ years that I haven’t been compute bound at work. Even though we typically replace computers on a 3-yr cycle, I’m not agitating for a new machine at this time; my employer can spend that money on something else this year.
This weekend I have to decide on whether it is worth the price of an SSD to keep the Mac CUBE alive a bit longer; The hdd is dying. I find it nteresting that this box, as old as it is, had USB ports for keyboard, mouse, and DVI for video. Apple’s thinking about “new” standards — this one paid off. (Though resolution is a challenge. I am not sure I can find a monitor suitable anymore – thank goodness for ssh. )
In a similar fashion, I noted as I shopped for my wife’s new AirBook that the new model has but one port. And it’s not Thunderbolt. The old models had more–the ones one might expect.
It’s an interesting thing, I think, that the consumers rely on standards to maintain longevity and upgrade-ability, but the manufacturers have a gamble on their hands. How to sell to the world that Firewire is the next best thing? Or Thunderbolt?
Yes, buy an SSD. They are cheap, if you are a normal human a 1TB drive is ridiculous.
The performance from my Crucial BX100 is amazing, and it is far from the top end. They are less than $0.40 per GigByte. Everything on the machine is faster, application load times, startup, and shutdown. It is great.
I’m tempted to get an SSD but my main reason in the past was startup and shutdown. Now I always put my machine in sleep mode which wakes up in seconds. I’m still a little tempted to get an SSD for the other speedups but can’t quite justify it. Would the speed increases for other tasks alone have motivated you in your purchase?
Startup and shutdown were faster with SSD because access time is faster. That applies to everything your computer does except for what is already in RAM which originally came from the disk drive. So if it speeds up anything, it will speed up everything.
Dude, get the SSD. I promise you, it will change your life.
I’m not sure it’s worth it just to keep using the old machine. I tried upgrading a dual-core 1.6 GHz Pentium M with an SSD, and I didn’t notice a life-changing difference compared to running it with its 7200rpm HDD. The problem is that the CPU is just so slow. If you like that Cube and want to keep it running for fun, then go for it, but don’t expect it to become a dramatically more useful machine. Especially if it already has plenty of RAM.
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A related problem is that the Cube is old and uses parallel ATA drives. Parallel ATA SSDs are pretty much all slow and overpriced. There are PATA to SATA adapters, but they make installation a little trickier, and you can’t get anywhere near the drive’s potential if you put a fast, modern SSD in there. SATA SSDs top off at like 500 MBps, while the PATA bus in the G4 cube runs at a theoretical speed of 66 MBps. Also, there’s the LBA48 issue that makes drives larger than 128GB impractical.
http://lowendmac.com/2010/sata-and-ssd-options-for-g3-and-g4-power-macs/
In the case of a mobile device, there’s no room for adapters. PATA SSDs are still a noticeable improvement, if you want to keep the PC.
Consider an external Firewire 400 drive instead, it’s said to be faster than the internal interface and does not have the 128gb limit.
I bought my first MacBook late 2008 and did the same thing: more RAM and a bigger hybrid drive. In a few months it will be celebrating its 7th birthday. The OS was originally 10.6, upgraded twice to 10.7 and 10.9 (skipped 10.8). Something I would not even dream doing on a Windows-based PC. The only part that needs a somewhat regular replacement is the battery, it seems they last about 2.5-3 years.
While there are many new MacBooks available today, I don’t have any burning desire to replace my reliable 2008 MacBook. I think I will ‘drive’ this one until it falls apart. In the mean time I may replace the hybrid drive for a SSD.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t dream of upgrading a 2008 PC. I could have upgraded a 2006 PC to Windows 10, but I decided that its random freezes while running CPU-heavy jobs and making lots of noise were a sign that maybe I should retire that computer, instead. I had it running Windows 8 for the past couple years.
Oh puhleaze, if anything, ugrading a 2008 PC with SSD and RAM would be easier, faster and cheaper.
Not to mention every Windows iteration after 7 requires less resources.
Is Internet speed becoming the performance bottleneck?
We also buy new cars at a much slower rate. But, phones are once a year (or three times a year if you’re clumsy or a teen).
My approach for the 13 years I’ve been retired (and the hit is on me) has been to buy a fairly high end (not top end) Mac and then for several years upgrade it with bigger drives, SSDs etc. YouTube makes this possible with their great videos on how to open an iMac and install an SSD in addition to its HD, for example. My 27″ iMac is getting on for 5 years old now.
I have the same machine. Last year I went to 16g and a SSD drive. It was like a new machine.
I do miss the capability to stream video to AirPlay, like both of my daughter’s newer MacBook Pros can do.
But yeah…that TOC (Total Cost of Ownership) is sweet. Eat that, you $400 Dell laptop owners.
I upgrade my Dell Latitude laptop every three years for a net cost of about $100, either via work or Craigslist. Buy a new one, or one generation behind (depending on the deal I can get), and sell my old one for darned near what I paid for it. On my 5th series of Latitude so it works for me.
If someone would give me a business class Mac Laptop, and Mac Software to replace my Windows software I would try it, otherwise NFW.
SURRRRE you sell older pcs for nearly what u paid. After 6 months a pc is worth 25 percent original value. If you do get what you paid you are likely ripping off old people.
Bitch please, a 400$ Dell machine would run that SSD and RAM just fine, with TCO being much, much less than what you`ve paid to Jobs.
I’m still using a late 2011 17″ Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM and a 1TB 7200RPM drive. I dual boot 10.6.8 and 10.8.5 although I mostly use 10.6.8. I’ve never thought about the performance as it is fast enough for me not to notice. This particular 17″ MBP is the last 17″ that Apple made and as I love the larger screen and Apple dropped the 17″ it will be my notebook until I can no longer keep it going, which could be a very long time as none of my Apple notebooks over the years have ever got to the point that they could not be repaired.
I’ve been trailing edge for home computrons for a long time. Off lease corporate PCs and laptops have served me well. I’m hoping the next computer for my wife will be a chrome-box. I want to get out of the commercial software / anti-virus treadmill. Google docs plus web may be all we really need.
Sweet, Robert X. Cringely and I use the same computer!!!
My last upgrade wasn’t to get a better processor, it was to get SSD, and to get USB 3. I expect my next upgrade will be to get the USB ‘C’ connector. Which is why I won’t upgrade my tablet until it dies – it’s already solid state, and everything except power goes in and out of it wirelessly. Yes, I have a wireless charger, but I don’t seem to use it.
I suspect it also has to do with how much of a hassle migrating your data to a new machine is.
My wife’s 2011 vintage Macbook Air’s keyboard and trackpad failed, and she filled the internal hard drive anyway, so I got her a shiny new 12″ Retina MacBook. Even on OS X, with its allegedly foolproof Migration Assistant, the transfer failed and corrupted the main partition to the point it wouldn’t boot at all. I had to boot on the recovery partition, reinstall the OS (at least an hour’s download on my fast Comcast connection), and then redo the transfer. There are still a number of things that don’t work, like Microsoft Word asking me for the product key I can’t locate since we moved a year ago, Creative Suite complaining that Java isn’t installed on the machine, and doubtless many other niggling details.
The migration process on iOS is comparatively bulletproof, thanks to the much more tightly defined app to platform and data interface.
You were terribly unlucky on your upgrade–in 15 years of OSX I have never had a problem.
Just upgraded from a 2009 MacBook Pro to a refurbished 2013 MacBook Pro Retina! The MBR feels 10 times faster because of SSD.
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I keep 20 to 30 tabs open on Safari and about every 3 hours I have to quit and relaunch Safari (not a total reboot). With SSD on a 2013 model that move takes me under 10 seconds. The old MBP would take about 90 seconds. I am ecstatic about this simple UX enhancement. When I get my 2017 MBR in 2019 the quit/realunch will happen in blink of an eye.
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Got SSD? It’s worth it.
Many computers were purchased for specialized applications such as operating CAD/CAM machines. The companies that made the machines are either out of business or the costs of replacing them with new machines is prohibitively expensive. The older machines are repaired for as long as parts can be found to maintain them. Ebay, Goodwill Computer Works Stores, electronics flea markets, and computer swap meets are good for finding parts for old computers. Sometimes these are only places to find some relatively inexpensive but rare part like a cable or connector.
In a few offices I’ve seen old computers being used as print servers for old printers with old cables and connections. Those applications could be examples of “Appropriate technology”.
They are not used for web browsing or any other purpose.
From I, Cringley, July 21, 2005: “Where are our new mip-burning apps today?” Sorry, I Googled MIP to find out how you meant it. and there was your column right at the top 🙂 I was suitably impressed with this prediction from the same column though “Microsoft, in turn, will make xBox the center of its own iVideo-like strategy, though again they’ll be playing catch up” That was incredibly astute Robert 🙂 Back to today, Vista convinced me it was time to upgrade, One core at any speed was insufficient. That was my last major hardware upgrade. 7 is still thrilled to run on my 2.9 gig Core 2 duo with 6g of RAM. Yes, I splurged for an SSD 2 years ago, boot time went from 40 sec to 19 loaded with Office and PS etc.10 has me concerned though, I installed it on an old 7200rpm drive and it (Windows 10) Vista’d my PC. Everything takes forever. Having a hard time convincing myself that the old HDD is the whole problem. It might be that time….By the way, I still wouldn’t count out Win 8 being the reason for crashing PC sales, I guess we’ll know by Christmas.
MIP or MIPS is Millions of Instructions Per Second https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Millions_of_instructions_per_second
I upgraded my mid-2009 17″ MacBook and replaced the keyboard on it so I know what you went through. There was hardly a part that I didn’t have to remove to get to the keyboard.
Alas, more recent MacBooks can’t be upgraded. Everything, including the battery, is soldered together.
I did a keyboard upgrade on an Acer laptop and was surprised to find that all I had to do was push back 4 spring-loaded clips and unplug the ribbon cable to replace it!
Similar for a Toshiba, and a Dell. What is Apple’s excuse?
Non plastic construction. The case is milled aluminum. Keys just poke through. If Apple wanted to make cheap, crappy notebooks they could. They chose quality.
Good point. I do remember Apple’s big marketing blitz about the milled aluminum “unibody” design.
“They chose quality.” – well from my experience they choose appearance (design) first, then quality and then functionality. Completely opposite to the order I put those three measures.
I use a late 2008 aluminum Macbook, this almost 7 year old model is still going strong. I’ve replaced the 320 GB Samsung HDD with a 512 GB SDD/HDD, expanded the DRAM to 8 GB and and replaced the battery once (it was swelling). I use a silicon keyboard skin and it’s still going strong. Notice how incremental hardware changes have been over that time, while operating systems have actually evolved.
I couldn’t figure out what that first image in your article was supposed to be. I finally realized that it’s the “e” key that had faded. Actually, I realized it only after poking around in your other photos and saw this: https://cringely.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IMG_0262.jpg
Then it made sense.
Thanks. Very clever.
I’m not an Apple hardware guy, but yeah…Moore’s law. At home I have two laptops, both business class Dell Latitudes. One is a 2008/9 vintage e6500 with a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo, 8 gigs of RAM and an aftermarket Samsung 470 128 gig SSD. The other is an e6530 with an i7-3720QM, 16 gigs and a 256 gig Crucial SSD. For some things — like transcoding video — it’s no contest and I go with the e6530. But as a “daily driver” for writing, for web browsing, email and the other non-demanding stuff that I do with computers 95 percent of the time, the old Core 2 Duo has not been displaced and is every bit as servicable as the more modern processor/memory/SSD combo in the i7 based machine.
Sometimes, fast enough is fast enough. For what most people do with their machines most of the time, any later gen Core 2 or better with adequate RAM and an SSD (which is the single biggest performance improvement of all) will generally suffice. At any rate, I no longer lust after the “latest and greatest” when it comes to hardware, so I too am hurting the PC industry I suppose…
Could be … slightly … demographics.
(ducks)
You may want to look squarely in Intel’s direction. Their efforts have been on power consumption, with not too much on performance. If I replace the 3 year old processor in my workstation with a new Skylake one, I’d be lucky to get a 30% improvement. In the olden days, it would be 300% or more.
They do get a bit of a pass. The major performance competitor (AMD) hasn’t offered much of a challenge. The low hanging performance improvement techniques are all long since plucked. Frequency can’t be used since it results in too much power consumption. I can only see doing major single core ILP (instruction level parallelism) improvements by radical architectural changes – things that would make Transmeta blush. However at that high a level, you can often do the same thing in software/operating system (eg dynamically recompiling binaries to be faster).
Also note how Intel avoids ECC on the regular CPUs. People with ECC report getting errors around once a week, and it will only keep going up with the quantity of memory and shrinking feature sizes. The consequence is that computers become unreliable – they will randomly crash or corrupt data. To protect yourself against that, you have to use multiple systems (and the cloud) which then makes individual computers less relevant.
I always bought a new computer when the processing power doubled.
My 4 core Xenon may be a permanent part of my desktop.
Well I think Apple is already addressing this problem, as the latest MacBook models can’t easily be upgraded because the HD and RAM are soldered on. I haven’t actually cracked one open, but this is what I’ve heard.
This is also true of the Mac Mini line — pieces like RAM that are replaceable-by-design are now soldered. I believe Apple has said it’s required by the design but it seems dubious with the Mini product line. I think it’s in response to industry veterans seeing products that are supposed to be slightly disposable experiencing an increased longevity.
I wonder how the maker/builder set factors into this. I haven’t bought a “PC” in decades, preferring instead to build to order myself. Companies like Tiger make this incredibly easy; even seductive. There are no end to the options and if I ever wanted to go truly exotic with liquid cooling or case modding, they still have me covered. (The last one I built with 3 red LED lit case fans – tame for hard core modders, but I think it looks cool!)
I have to believe that between upgraders like yourself and people like me who built from parts, it’s taking it’s toll. But with no overwhelming incentive to buy a prebuilt system and tablets overtaking laptops, I haven’t even considered anything since the tubular MacPro was introduced and even then I got over it.
This generally has been my experience with all Macs – MacBooks as well as Mac Pros Especially the Unibody variants seem to last forever and even survive my son in college. His machine is dented and looks battle worn, but it still works.
The biggest performance improvement has been through RAM and SSDs, which really boost the responsiveness.
Dells and other Windows system including Sony Vaio seem to only have a two to three year lifespan before the cases and components give out.
We have three Mac Pros – but I have little interest in the latest model. In my mind expansion via cables and external boxes went out with the Atari 800. The classic Mac Pros are super upgradable. I always intended to sell the older versions, but ended up keeping them. They were worth more to me than you can sell them for. My ancient Mac Pro 2007 is right now crunching my son’s video sitting in the loft. It is running Yosemite on a Fusion drive. It’s 8 cores of 3.0GHz running with 24GB of ECC RAM still do a decent job. And for fun, it still boots retro Tiger!
Soooo, is that pic microscopic detritus?
It’s my mutilated letter e.
Janice posted a link (above) to a zoomed out photo of the same letter “e”.
Well, gang, this is all well and good, and it’s been wonderful while it lasted, but good luck going forward as Apple (and others) are all soldering and gluing everything in place (for a variety of reasons, some good and some just perverse), meaning we can’t upgrade, replace, and repair much any more. So I don’t know if this post is really pointing to a trend or merely an exercise in nostalgia. All this computer-as-toaster stuff means computers aren’t as much fun as they once were. Nor, I predict, will they be as good a value proposition as they’ve recently been.
Well in a sense it’s both nostalgia and caution. I’ve built a huge volume of work around these sort of issues. Look, especially, at my columns on solder, which for the most part still haven’t come to the attention of the general press. Yes, Apple is trying to solder everything in place but that has more to do with labor costs and reliability than it does with forcing us to upgrade. In the long run the hardware on our desks or laps will be completely commoditized five years from now (more on that next week). MacBooks are well built and personal computing is becoming less, not more, demanding. But blink and that will change as the cloud really comes into its own…
Everyone should relax and enjoy the inevitable.
Users could easily repair most of a Model T, but they also had to adjust the timing and clean the carburetor, and regularly grease dozens of lubrication points. Now all that is either unneeded or left to pros, but in exchange we all have far superior cars that last longer and are a far better value proposition overall. Hobbyists, shade-tree mechanics, and hardware geeks complain about this process, but most users are happy with more reliability and lower costs. In recent years office documents, video, and websites haven’t required significantly more resources, so why upgrade?
Yup, damn that PC industry for making the tasks that 90%+ of users do possible even on the lowest end hardware. It took us 30 years, but we’re here now. These days the only meaningful performance upgrade I could recommend for someone is dumping the spinning hard disk for a solid state drive. Hopefully hi dpi displays will entice people to upgrade their systems, but so far that depends on sketchy developer support. Unfortunately on Windows, proper support of hi dpi displays hinges on the success of universal apps. Macs at least have had a head start in this area.
It all depends on what one does with a computer. If you get a higher-end computer and use it for tasks that could be handled by a netbook, you’ll obviously get a lot more usable life out of the unit than if you run video encoding and 3D CAD on the side.
Apple has also failed to waste — or some might say to make wise use of — as many clock cycles as Microsoft with its newer OS’s. If it hadn’t been for the failure of Windows 8, Microsoft would’ve continued its unfailing quest for ways to make new blazingly fast hardware work just as slowly as what got replaced. Windows 10 is back in the game, thanks to “innovations” like Cortana and even more middleware to slow every API call down some more. (And don’t get me started on the clock-cycle consuming “benefits” of hypervisors and other virtualization.)
Intel also hit a ceiling when its chips broke above 130 deg TDP; but I would like Mr X to write a column here about whatever advancements have been made in parallel processing, which is the only thing I can see that would give us the burst in speed/power to take us to the next level. I recall that Intel founded a program at Stanford to develop Parallel, but that was years ago. This looks like a very hard problem to solve, but it would mean chips and boards that could do a lot, a lot faster, without bursting into white hot magma.
Another thing I’ve thought: what about several complete PCs in the same case, all policed by some master chip? Look at, for example, the new 13″ Macbook. That mainboard is so small, that 4 of them could be put on one desktop mainboard form factor. Then rather than having 4 virtual desktops, the user would have 4 complete PCs running at once, each with its own dual core CPU, cache, ram, small ssd (with connections to the main large SSD). These would work in the background and sleep as they are not used.
What is the next big level of computing power, anyway? Hollywood level CGI for videogames I can see. Other than that, really good speech recognition and the Star Trek computer you just talk to and it answers intelligently.
While I work in the technology field and use the newer systems and software, in my home I have tried to stay back a generation or so. Most of my computers have been pre-owned 2 or 3 year old models that I have fixed up.
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Keeping a MAC a long time is much easier than an a Windows system. For one thing the new versions of MAC OS run on a much longer age span of systems then their Microsoft counterparts.
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Some of the PC’s I’ve bought came with working Windows licenses. When it came time to put a fresh installation on the PC it is not uncommon for the license keys not to work. When that happens it is usually quite a hassle…
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Sometimes I’ve tried to upgrade the OS. I have often found that the special drivers for one generation of PC’s were not in the next generation of OS. Most times I could find drivers and eventually get the OS fully installed in working. However if you want to jump to a second generation, you’re usually out of luck.
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Once you get over the license key problem, the driver problem, and optionally the OS upgrade problem and get Windows installed — then comes the next challenge — the updates! There will be 100’s of them. Upgrading can take many hours, several reboots, … You can’t just download the latest version of Windows with all the updates preinstalled. They don’t exist. Microsoft does have interim versions with all the accumulated patchs. They have designations like SP1, or SP2, etc. But even with these come score’s of fresh updates. With the “sp” versions the license key problem often resurfaces. A key may work on the original version, but it will generally not work on an “sp” version.
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We’re now given the opportunity to upgrade to Windows 10. It is tempting. It is the first time in my memory of Microsoft there has been a free OS upgrade. But there is a problem. We use Windows Media Center and Microsoft has removed it from Windows 10. This too is an occasional problem in the Microsoft world. Features come and go.
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Having said all this, replacing one’s drive with an SSD helps a LOT. Adding RAM is almost always a good thing. We put all our personal data on a $100 NAS device. That is really nice. We can access our files from any device in our home. For backup I bought a second NAS device. A couple times a week I backup the files on the first NAS to the second. Even doing something as simple as that is a hassle. Microsoft’s security settings don’t allow scheduled jobs to access file shares, so my backup’s have to be done manually. I haven’t spent the time needed to find and change the settings for backup to run automatically. But as you can see, there can be hassles every step of the way.
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This stuff is my profession and keeping 2-5 year old PC’s running in my home keeps my skills sharp.
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It all comes down to how one makes their money. Apple makes their money on the system sale. Allowing users to upgrade their systems is easier to manage and doesn’t present a threat to Apple’s revenue stream. Micorosft makes their money on the OS. So anything you do with the OS could affect their revenue. So they have lots of business rules around the process which unfortunately, makes upgrading a PC hard.
I think you’re a bit misinformed.
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Except the license thing. That’s a legitimate problem. Microsoft fusses over piracy, so they tend to expire keys that businesses use. OEM keys usually work, but OEM Windows is often pretty stale. If a machine came with Windows XP, I prefer to run Linux on it. I’m contemplating what to do about my Vista computer that can’t run Linux because it’s all-NVIDIA inside.
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Longevity? Windows 10 runs on machines up to 2 years older than MacOS 10.10. Removing features? Heard of FCP X, or Photos, or Rosetta, or a bunch of other stuff? And you aren’t safe from obsolescence running Linux, either: systemd, GNOME 3, and Wayland have been fun.
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The biggest thing making life easier has been free, preferably open-source, software. Chrome, Firefox, and LibreOffice run everywhere. That covers most people’s use cases, without license keys. 7-Zip eliminates the need for WinRAR nag screens. GIMP does not require Java. And once Windows support runs out, I can usually upgrade the whole thing to Linux.
I have a pile of OEM licenses that will not work to reinstall the original OS on the original PC. Microsoft has killed them and you have to haggle with them to get them to work.
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Just because a new version of Windows “says” it will run on an old PC, it doesn’t mean you should use it. There is now a tighter time window on system and driver support. More and more manufacturers might provide drivers for N+1 versions of the OS, but not much more. With Vista Microsoft tried to make a clean break from many earlier generation drivers.
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Linux is not a solution to all problems. There are applications that have no equivalent in the Linux world. On my system you will find Visio, Project, Access, Turbo Tax, Photoshop, … Then there is the user element. People with serious PC skills can make the transition from Windows to Linux. A casual user will be uncomfortable with the change. The browser is different, the office apps are different, printing is different, many commonly performed functions are different,… It all works, its just different.
Okay, so, the hassle of Windows also depends on what edition of it you’re trying to use. Licensing Microsoft software is a major pain.
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I think you over/underestimate ordinary users. When I gave kids a selection of machines, some running Linux and some running Windows, they didn’t seem to be perturbed by the difference. Except one kid, when I replaced Ubuntu with OpenSUSE on one machine, complained just for the principle of complaining. Until he found the bouncy ball widget.
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On the other hand, none of my kids have asked for Photoshop. What is this cloud subscription-polluted thing? There’s a reason Google Chromebooks have been doing so well.
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Driver support is a problem for every OS, but still pretty good on Windows. NVIDIA may not support my 9-year-old system anymore, but their old binary driver designed for Vista still runs on Windows 10. So many times, the Apple attitude to compatibility is to ask you to buy new hardware.
Impressed that you replaced something that I didn’t think was user-replaceable! But I’m suprised a keyboard warrier like yourself isn’t using a full-size desktop keybasher (the one I’m using now is 14 years old and still going strong, and even when I’ve spilled coffee over it, a few hours later it’s back to normal!)
I’m typing this on a HP/Compaq 8510 laptop from 2008 I’ve been using for the last two years. I bought it used and put some more RAM and a new, bigger hard drive. They can be gotten off-lease for less than $150; my four kids have them, too. They are plenty fast for everything except heavy-duty gaming and 3D graphics rendering; I have a newer 6-core desktop system I built that I use for the latter.
This is the third generation of Compaq business laptops the Kids had; we started with Armada M700s and then Evo 610c’s. I put Linux on them to reduce administration headaches, which has worked out very well. I used Mepis Linux for a long time, but it seems to have fizzled out, so am moving to Debian 8…
I seldom use my PC any more. Most of the time I use my Chromebook.
One of my laptops is a G4 running Debian with an Xfce desktop. Good for traveling around and not having to worry too much about theft.
One nice feature of the more recent Intel CPUs is the AES-NI instructions which make software en-de-cryption much faster. Helps your laptop with full disk encryption… you all do that, right?
I have 2008 NVidia (Quadro FX 570M) graphics on my HP 8510w that still plays 720p at 60fps gopro videos brilliantly without any tearing while upscaling the video to the laptop’s 1920×1200 display. This is coming from a linux distro running on the laptop. The laptop does have an Intel SSD. For a while, I too wondered why my raspberry played these videos better than the laptop until I discovered that the compositor used in xfce was to blame and a better compositor found in the cinnamon desktop made play back issues go away. If your graphics hardware specs are as good if not better than what I have then I suspect your Mac’s software/OS is what’s degrading video quality. If only the 8510w’s fan wasn’t so noisy.
For me, when the computers hit about 1Ghz for the processor speed it was fast enough for most tasks; surfing, e-mail and documentation. I bought my wife and son a chrome box, and it does everything they need.
We live in a throwaway society that promotes buying new every few years. But I’m sure you could have stopped doing so many years before you did.
I’m a software developer, and while I primarily program on work hardware, I still use my 2003 (that’s two thousand and THREE – not a typo) T40 Thinkpad as my primary home computer. Since I purchased it I’ve added the maximum amount of memory, upgraded my hard drive and replaced the battery and fan. It still runs Windows XP Pro 3 which is perfectly adequate for my daily needs. BTW, the Thinkpad’s great keyboard has never given me trouble.
I also have a 2004 Dell Latitude laptop I’ve kept functional by replacing the frail hinges three times, upgrading memory and replacing the battery. And a 2002 Dell Dimension 8200 that I’ve replaced the hard drive and maxed out memory for.
In addition I still DAILY use a HP Laserjet 5 and Scanjet 4p that I bought in 1995. I’ve had to replace the pinch roller once on the printer.
I’ve updated and fixed all of the above myself using video or paper instructions.
It is a fallacy that we need to keep buying new stuff when what we have is still humming along and works for 90% of what we need.
Re: “HP Laserjet 5…that I bought in 1995” Me too. Microsoft even still had the driver for Windows 8 but the driver search took a while, feeling like they sent an intern into the basement to look for it while I patiently waited for it. Biggest problem is the fading of the white plastic housing. Need to use a parallel-to-usb cable, but well worth it.
My LaserJet 4P cost about $1200, and lasted 19 years, replaced by a used low page count P2035 on Ebay.
Yep, hooray for YouTube and its ability to teach us how to do anything. I’ve saved so much money doing my own repairs to my washer and dryer. While not Youtube, I did document one repair in photos on my own blog and years later, it’s still the most viewed set of blog posts on a weekly basis.
My work is compute-intensive so I dropped two grand on the last machine, early 2013; the second-fastest i7 of the time, 16GB, SSD, etc – I gather that by late 2016 a new line of ‘skylake’ i7 chips will finally exceed it significantly in raw horsepower. Still not a doubling or anything, but I’ll notice. By then, the DDR4 RAM and faster SSDs will help it be a distinct improvement in responsiveness.
By then it’ll be 5 years since the previous setup was purchased, and it won’t be anything like a halving of compute time. Moore’s Law may be alive and well in the low-power market, but for those of us that don’t mind a room-heater if it just grinds out a moving map at 30 frames per second, it died years ago.
Raspberry pi 2 is an awesome thin client. Vnc runs well over wifi and has no lag over 100Mbps Ethernet. However, both my boys and wife like Windows. Intel and Microsoft have a good future if they can control costs. My i5 could power my entire household computing needs. I need to get the family on-board for using Ubuntu over vnc.
Bob, I completely agree. From a financial perspective, it makes no sense to replace a PC every 3-4 years. Unless, of course, you are an engineer, digital artist or power user that requires the latest and greatest. For most casual users (the majority) it makes ZERO sense. Now, would I like to have a brand-new MBP with all the latest tech? Sure, but I’m not willing to forgo $2000+ dollars for a device that’s outrageously overpriced and IMO, not all that impressive (hardware jailed). My late 2008 MBP will be with me for a sometime to come. Got to love SSD’s! ROI keeps rolling on…
I bought a new Mac late last year after the Yosemite upgrade severely slowed down my self-upgraded MBP. The old pro was fantastic with 16GB RAM and a 1TB hybrid drive. But because Apple decided to solder the RAM chips and SSD in place when I upgraded I bought the top end machine. I really don’t like that there’s no upgrade path, especially when I read about Samsung’s giant SSDs in the pipeline. But I’ve also been moving media over to a NAS and having a VPN connection back home helps.
You nailed it. I’ve had my 17″ MacBook Pro since early 2009 and made many of the same upgrades.
I have a 2009 MBA that I love, but has only 2GB of RAM. I’m getting killed with Safari open, and it starts sucking the memory until it starts swapping pages on the SSD, which as fast as it is, still is a bottleneck (the write speeds are slow).
For that reason alone, I’m starting to think about upgrading to a newer MBA…still holding out though!
Wow. This blog and the comments makes me feel like an exception but from my Mac experience and of others I know almost everyone has jogged to Apple center to resolve issues.
I bought a Macbook Pro 15″ in August 2009 in Denver. After a year I was back in my country, India. Within a couple of years problems started. My dvd drive was replaced twice. My i/o port went for a toss. Big ones – my logicboard was replaced and so was my screen. Before the 3-year warranty got over, thanks to going for Apple Care, I started facing a weird problem – my wifi icon would shut on its own. I was traveling in India and ended up showing it three centers and none could figure out the issue.
One thing I love about Apple (in India) – customer support. Say you want to talk to someone senior and they put you to someone who IS a senior chap sitting outside the country. I was fortunate to deal with someone in Singapore, I think, who extended my warranty. However since none were able to resolve the problem, and he seemed to have got tired too, he replaced my Mac with a new one. Wow. That gentleman was a savior. And thankfully my work was back to normal. With late-2011 Macbook Pro 15″.
First thing I did – buy Apple Care. And guess what? Within two years – the i/o port went for a toss, charging port, the dvd drive and the fans. In fact, even though the a couple of points of the port were black the service guy refused to change remarking about strange protocol that we can’t replace three things at once. I went back after a few weeks, with same condition, since charging was still intermittent and he replaced.
Then…the warranty got over. And I started freaking out. And my worst fears came true. Started receiving Kernel Panics. At times ten times in two hours, sometimes once in a week. On restart most of the times the Mac would open to a black screen. Only option was to hit-&-try. Finally it got too much and a service job resolved the issue for a bit.
I forgot to mention two other issues – cursor flying randomly; initially pressing the trackpad would keep it stable but later it was like a flickering flame. I started using an external mouse to deal without paying for sorting it out. Other one – audio jack port getting stuck with red light; which results in volume keys becoming dysfunctional. Solution put the jack in and take it out; on doing it a few times the light goes off. Well, I stopped using that port too.
Oh yes, the speakers went for a toss as well; audibility affected at high level.
However my Mac finally started showing old issues. I would start my Mac in the morning and it would open to black screen. Shut down and restart would put the white screen on and proper follow through. Then I started getting horizontal lines on the screen and it would hang. Finally, the Mac refuses to start. Only difference – white screen and nothing beyond.
Resolution on the horizon – replace logicboard. That’s around $900. With a 3-month warranty. It’s all very scary now. Especially when pocket size is small. What if something goes wrong. Again. Should I try to scrape around moolah to go for a new device?
Only reason I went for Mac – FCP. I went to a film school that only worked on that. Once I started using Mac, it was tremendous experience. However when the bank balance is tight I don’t recommend it to anyone.
I have five-six pals who have Macs – Air and Pro. And almost all of them have had hassles. There’s a good amount to pay. Thankfully most of them have deep pockets. Except for a couple of pals who have been using Mac for over 6-years I don’t know anyone.
In India, the service centers are also bit off-the-mark and it can get murky, and the non-Apple, non-official market isn’t developed, as such getting parts ain’t so smooth and easy. What happens backdoor isn’t easy to map put and it isn’t all purity. So it can be tough. I wish, so much, that I never had to run to a center, which Mac was famous for, but now I can’t buy that based on my experience.
I purchased a mid-2010 MBP for my son to take to college. It got handed down to my younger son in 2012 when he graduated high school and left for college, got left with me to use for about eighteen months, and is now back with its original owner, my older son. A few years ago we replaced the hard drive and maxed out the RAM so it works better than new (also thanks to upgrades by Apple to OS X). It has endured spending most of its lifetime in college dorm rooms and being toted to classes and libraries. It even survived having a bottle of Gatorade being dumped directly onto the keyboard, after which the keyboard felt a little crunchy — eventually that wore off. At this point we have no good reason to replace that machine. I am, however, beginning to think that it is time to replace my mid-2007 iMac.
I should point out that over this same span of time I have had three work-issued laptops (1 Dell and 2 IBM/Lenovo Think Pads) that have not fared nearly as well even though these devices rarely leave the desk in my office.
I also think that in addition to the reasons you cited above, that older Macs are faring better because since the advent of the App Store, programs for Macs have tended to get smaller and less processor intensive. For example I use iA Writer, Day One and, on rare occasion, Pages for word processing. I seldom use Microsoft’s porcine Word. These mobile apps are lite even in their full OS X configuration.
my Frankenclone finally went nuts for good a year and a half ago, and my eMac P4 is only good for editing now due to changes outside the house on the web, so I had to get a Win 8 HP laptop. immediately upgraded to 8.1 when availiable, after an interminable 4 hours of upgrade downloads. it’s useable… but there is something about Windows these days that drives me more nuts than leaving XP. randomly it takes freaking forever to get past the post-BIOS loadings and get to the login screen. randomly it never seems to shut down, and to get on with my life, I have to take out the battery. it’s software screwups, not disk, I’ve checked enough times to stop worrying.
here I thought advancements in the OS would enable the world to stop red-switching the computer, occasionally useful in the DOS 4 world up through Windows 98.
nope. weasels.
2009 era Intel Atom 1.86 GHz UMPC prototype upgraded via clean instal from Vista/hdd to Win7/ssd then Win8/ssd : http://web.archive.org/web/20110725141127/https://www.oqo.com/products/model2+/features.html May go to Windows 10 some day. It’s dockable so it functions as desktop and mobile/shirt-pocket. Using original Vista drivers since the company went out of business before taking it into production. It’s a bit of a challenge getting some original specialized drivers to work on newer OSs but can be done. (OQO 2+, not OQO 2)
Wow, very nice ! I hope I’ll get one of these one day ! Is it working well, since they weren’t done on a large scale? Do they have quirks and the likes?
“This changed after 2010 when I was 33 years and eleven computers into the trend. ”
Hmm.. maybe one shouldn’t call attention to a missing word. Specially when that word is “older” ?
And especially when the word isn’t actually “missing”…
Oops… my mistake!
Sorry Bob.
Love your stuff Bob but if you want to be taken seriously writing about PCs then forget Cupertino and get back to your true roots, they didn’t go anywhere, you did.
Congratulations on the keyboard replacement! You are very brave or cheap :p
I get really upset when my $600 washer, dryer or TV does not last at least 10 years. The PC market is about to that point. Maybe its time we start thinking about paying a little more for a PC that will last a decade.
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This raises a fun subject for a future column for Bob. How would you design a 10 year PC? Given the concept of a 10 year PC, we will need to revisit how we do operating systems and applications. Would it be reasonable to pay Microsoft 50% more for 10-15 years of support?
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I have lots of ideas. I’ll save them for later…
I think for most users, the Decadal PC has been there since the 1990s (my 1998-era PC lasted 11 years running 24/7 – I only had to replace a CPU fan and upgrade Windows 98 to 2000). Whilst enterprise users will probably need software support, I don’t see why the average home user should need it (my current PC is 7 years old and runs Windows 2000, and even when that OS was current, I only updated to SP4 – never bothered with any patches and have had no problems whatsoever).
The decadal PC did not start in the 90’s. I remember the 90’s. For such a long time, computers would be barely enough to run current software, let alone any future software. A typical late-90’s PC could be upgraded to 128MB max, maybe 256MB. (The 1998 PowerMac G3 could be upgraded to 384MB, officially.) Of course, some people are completely undemanding, and they’ll use the same program on the same computer until it falls apart and you can’t buy parts for it. This is use as an appliance, not as a computer.
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Now, unless you are going for top FPS with DirectX 12, there is no technical reason to upgrade from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10. And nobody actually uses TIFKAM (Modern) apps, so every program that anybody actually wants to use will run on Vista, released in 2007.
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However, there absolutely is the need to keep software currently supported. The way I think of it, you don’t need security updates if your computer is never exposed to anything new. Connect your computer to the Internet, and it will be exposed to new malware *all* *the* *time.* It will become infected, and it will join a botnet, and it will contribute to the background level of pollution. That is why I strenuously object to running Windows XP or earlier, or any other unsupported operating system, on the Internet.
You know, I seriously considered the 1998 PowerMac G3, but eventually plumped for an Pentium-II 400 system with 128 MB RAM (upgradeable to 768 MB). The irony is that it did get infected with a virus in 1999, despite having anti-virus and firewall software up-to-date. Since then, I never trusted such software and started using a hardware-based firewall instead.
You may not have found bed bugs, but my laptop managed to get an infestation of German cockroaches (the small ones). Very embarrassing when working at a client’s site and bugs start crawling all over the desk.
Sadly, there really is nothing that one CAN put into a Macbook Air.
Keyboard replacements (but bought me a great, external, UNICOMP one)
Memory upgrades are OUT. Not upgradeable.
CPU is out.
Screen … could buy a 2nd one, but I’m OK with one.
HD? Its already SSD and 1/4 terabyte. 244 GB capacity, 87.7 GB used, 156 GB free.
After what, 3 years? 4?
Boots in 22 seconds. But ‘rises from slumber’ in 5.
There’s not a single application I run (regularly) that feels even remotely “compute bound”
I keep it backed up on the Time Machine drive.
So… no upgrades for me. For awhile yet.
The “.” key (top) is faded.
=b=
Loved that article. Of course the 2010 is the ideal one – it was indeed the last of the “self upgradable” models and I too had to become a “mac-fixit self help” when the apple store had correctly detected a “Sprite can” spilled into my track pad. They wanted $1200 to gut and replace the whole internals. I opted for the self-help route and fond a very inexpensive track pad (with you tube video) and it turned out to be a breeze. At the same time I too upgraded the disk, memory, and did a “Steve” and pulled the optical drive to get another disk in there. Needless to say – it runs super fast. And while it’s not as svelt as the newer models, nor does it have the incredible new displays (not that these old eyes could see a difference) the current 2010 is running as well or better than it did when I initially purchased it. While I am sure the battery will go next, and then the keyboard, it’s hard to want to upgrade when the little old mac can be kept running for slight effort and minimal cash.
I had a wonderful mid 2010 15″ MacBook Pro I had purchased as a referb. It suffered from a discrete video bug that was fixed when Apple replaced the motherboard for free. I maxed out the memory and put in a hybrid drive. That laptop would’ve lasted me for many more years BUT it was stolen along with my iPad3 when guys broke into our garage and took my backpack from my car. The real kicker is that when the Detectives caught the two perps, they admitted that since they knew little about computers they threw the laptop and the iPad in a dumpster behind a strip mall. Now they’re in a landfill somewhere. Very sad.
” The real kicker is that when the Detectives caught the two perps, they admitted that since they knew little about computers they threw the laptop and the iPad in a dumpster behind a strip mall. Now they’re in a landfill somewhere. Very sad.”
Those criminals may have watched you use the computers and place them into your backpack. They have followed you home specifically for that backpack.
No, they were not thrown into a dumpster. You have to understand how criminals think. They either admit nothing or only admit to possession of the stolen property they were caught with. They sold off, “fenced” the other stolen property to their criminal associates. Maybe they gave the computers to their relatives who will admit nothing.
The criminals do not want to “rat out” their criminal associates that they sold their stolen property to. Those criminals might be organized criminals, violent gang members, or even their own relatives. The thieves will not admit to selling the stolen property because that would lead to more charges, possession, transporting, selling, and more. Their criminal associates would probably threaten the thieves if they told the police about them. If they were caught with more serious charges, maybe they would have taken a plea deal where they name the fences. If they have 2 strikes, the criminals will admit nothing.
Take note of the 3 strikers who get interviewed on TV. They will only admit to the 3 incidents where they were prosecuted for a strike even though they had long histories of criminal activity.
If they’re not admitting anything why would they say “they threw the laptop and the iPad in a dumpster behind a strip mall”?
Wow… don’t you cheapskates care about Apple stock it’s falling and all you care is bout a new HDD [PEOPLE STILL USE THOSE]
WWSJ DO?
“WWSJ DO” What does that mean? Also, stocks go up and down all the time, so why should that matter?
thanks for this useful article
Very embarrassing when working at a client’s site and bugs start crawling all over the desk.
Loved that article. Of course the 2010 is the ideal one
I have a dedicated notebook for writing microcontroller programs with. Party because I’m already using my desktop for doing far too much stuff I don’t wish to burden it further, partly because I like having it separate and portable too.
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Unfortunately XP got dropped by MS, and it was far too slow anyway. So I changed from a Lenovo Z60m to a used Lenovo T520 (Already have one for general work). Alas, the problem was the screen resolution. Many only have 768 lines deep, as this one did. So a search and I found a 1080 deep screen and changed it over. The computer is now better than new as it’s got a terrific screen now!
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I believe I got a faster computer for less money than any new alternative could have provided, at least half the price doing the used with screen change. Why don’t more notebooks come with a decent screen resolution?
Türkiye’nin en kaliteli resim kursu olan Taksim Resim Kursu ile eğitimlerinizi alarak hayal ürünü eserlerinizi somutlaştırabilirsiniz.
3 şubemiz ve onlarca atölyemiz ile eğitimlerimizi sanatsal bir ortamda üretmekle beraber yeni sanat eserleri üretebilecek bir ortam ile yeni ürünler ortaya çıkarmaktayız.
Taksimdeki şubemizi Zafer GAZİOĞLU hocamız yönetmektedir. Asistanları eşliğinde eğitimleri yürütmektedir. Taksim Güzel Sanatlara Hazırlık konusunda eğitimlerimiz için sizleride bekliyoruz.
https://www.arkhesanat.com/
Sabit telefonunuz varsa ve internet kullanımında sıkıntı yaşıyorsanız vodafone adsl ile sıkıntılarınızı bitirebiliriz. Bir çok avantajı paket ile sizleri mutlu etmekle beraber vodafone adsl kampanyası kapsamında 3000 dakikaya konuşma dakikalarından yararlanma fırsatlarıda sizlerle. Uygun fiyata kaliteyi seçebilmeniz için web sitemizdeki formu doldurabilir yada beni ara formuyla sizi aramamıza vesile olabilirsiniz.
Vodafone yapar !
İnterneti ışık hızında kullanarak zamanı kısaltmaya ne dersiniz ?
Vodafone fiber internet ile optik hızında internet ile kesintisiz bir internet kullanabileceksiniz. Milyonlarca kullanıcısı olan ve her bir kullanıcısının isteğini dikkate alan şebeke ağımız sayesinde ihtiyaçlarınıza uygun paket seçenekleri sizlerle.
İster konuşma dakikaları isterseniz de internet paketleri ile sizlerin ihtiyaçlarına karşılık vermekteyiz. Vodafone size kolaylıklar getiriyor !
Telefon değiştirmek istiyorsanız binlerce kampanya ile faturanıza ek ödeme seçenekleri ile akıllı telefonlara sahip olabilirsiniz. Vodafone yaparsa en iyisini yapar sloganı ile çıktığımız bu yolda sizlerin isteğiyle bir çok avantajlı tarifeler sizlerle.
Yeni kampanyamız vodafone supernet hakkında bilgi almak için sitemizi ziyaret ediniz.
http://vodafoninternet.com/
http://vodafoninternet.com/vodafone-net-kampanyalar/vodafone-fiber-internet/
Sınırsız internet seçenekleri vodafone ile sizlerle…
Vodafone net ile internet hızınız diğer alt yapıya ait şebekelere göre 3 kat daha iyi olduğunu biliyormuydunuz ? 23.000 yeni şebeke noktası ile çok daha hızlı bir şekilde interneti kullanabileceksiniz. Anı yaşamak hakkınız bu yüzden kaliteyi bizlerle yakalayın
Vodafone supernet kampanyamızdan haberiniz var mı .? Yeni yıl hediyesi olarak GB , Dakika ve Mesajlaşla miktarlarını arttırarak fiyatları daha düşüğe çekti. Çok uygun fiyatlar ile sizleri memnun etmeye çalışmakla beraber kullanıcıların dikkati dahilinde paketler ile yüzünüzü güldürmekteyiz.
Vodafone evde internet seçeneğimiz ev ve iş yerleriniz için en ideal seçim olabilir. İnternetten dolayı kasmalara son verin ve bizi seçiniz.
http://yellowmileadsl.com/vodafone-supernet.html
http://yellowmileadsl.com/vodafone-evde-internet.html
Evinizdeki sabit telefonun masrafları çok oluyorsa ve önüne geçemiyorsanız üstelik birde internet masrafınız varsa derdiniz büyük !
Vodafone adsl ile sabit telefonunuza ayda 3000 dakika hediye fırsatları ve vodafone internet ile 49.90 TL sabit fiyat garantisi versek nasıl olur ?
Herkes konuşur biz yaparız vodafone ile anı yaşamak dileğiyle.
http://yellowmileadsl.com/adsl.html
Spam to be deleted.
Tüm Hristiyan aleminin Noel bayramını kutlarız…
Biz müslümanlar olarak her dile ve her inanca saygımız var ve islamın hoşgörü anlayışı sizi sarsın…
Resim kursu ihtiyacınız varsa taksim resim kursu ile irtibata geçebilirsiniz. Sanatsal bir ortamda eğitiminizi tamamlamak için bizi tercih etmenizi öneriyoruz. Sizden aldığımız destek ile 3.şubemizden sonra 4. şubemizi açma düşüncemiz bulunmaktadır.
Spam to be deleted.
Yeni yılın ilk şansını yakalamaya ne dersiniz ?
Bakırköy Güzel Sanatlara hazırlık kursları adı altında verilen eğitimlerimizde %50 ye varan indirimli fiyatlar ile siz sanat aşığı bireylerin resim kursu muza gelebilmelerine vesile olmaktayız. Sizleri Eşsiz sanat eserleri ürettiğimiz atölyemizde görmek isteriz. Eserlerimizi incelemeniz ve sizlerinde sanata olan ilginizi bir çok kesime göstermenizi istiyoruz.
Avcılar Metrobüs durağının hemen yanındaki atölyemize haftanın her günü gelebilirsiniz.
Sevdiklerimiz ile bir yılı daha iyisi ve kötüsüyle geride bırakmaya çok yakınız . Yeni yılın ilk şansını ayağınıza getiriyoruz. Taksim Resim Kursu ile resim kursu ihtiyacınızı eğitmenlerimizce inceleyerek en kaliteli eğitim modelimiz ile kişisel gelişiminizi tamamlamaya çalışmaktayız.
Güzel Sanatlara Hazırlık Fakültelerine hazırlanmak istiyorsanız en ideal adrestesiniz çünkü Mimar Sinan Üniversite mezunlarından oluşmakta olan ekibimiz sizleri ideal yönlendirme ile geleceğe hazırlanmanıza vesile olacaktır.
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Sanat aşığı bir çok kişinin özel günlerde sevdiklerine karakalem çalışması, yağlı boya çalışması, kuru boya çalışması ve bir çok çalışma hediye ettiğini hiç şüphe yok ki hepimiz biliyoruz. Peki hediye edeceğimiz aracı kendimiz yapıp hediye etsek nasıl olurdu. Manevi yönden çok değerli olan bu hediyeyi bir ömür boyu saklayacağınızdan eminim.
Bakırköy resim kursu ile sizi manevi duygularınızı, hayallerinizi isteklerinizi soyut ve somut ortamda geliştirip ifade edebilmenize , resmemenize yardımcı olmak istiyoruz. Bakırköy güzel sanatlara hazırlık kursları arasında en ideal seçim olan kurumumuz 2016 kayıtlarına devam etmektedir.
http://ruyaavcisi.com/
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====================== WTF ?! Delete those turkish spam posts ! ======================