We call it The Red Devil — a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee V-8 I bought online earlier this year mainly to pull a trailer filled with airplane parts. But perhaps we should have named it Stinky, because that’s what this column is all about. When buying something on the Internet, how can you make sure it doesn’t smell terrible?
You can’t.
I should have known. The price was too low, the pictures too good, but the seller had sold hundreds of cars online and boasted a 100 percent satisfaction rating. So did I, but my 82 transactions had taken 13 years to accumulate.
When the car arrived it looked great but it smalled like a thousand mice had been camping in the back. No make that 2000 mice. The seller maintained that it smelled great when they put it on the truck headed west. “We treated it with the ozone machine just to be sure,” he said. That meant nothing to me at the time but it means plenty to me now.
Ozone is used to treat intense odors in vehicles and homes. A $1000 ozone machine and fresh sheets can turn a smoking hotel room into a non-smoking room in an hour. Use a big enough ozone machine and use it long enough and it can kill outright things like mold, mildew and bacteria. But you don’t use an ozone machine without a reason which told me the seller probably knew the car was stinky and hoped ozone would do the job.
I know now that ozone will take a away the mouse smell until the next warm day. So will wintergreen oil, by the way (mice hate wintergreen oil — us it to repel them). So will Oust Extra Strength. But once the sun comes out and the car gets warm, the mice inevitably reassert their will. Two thousand mice will not be denied. No, make that 3000.
I got nowhere with the seller. Yes, we both had 100 percent ratings at risk but he was the sales professional and I wasn’t. He chewed me up and I was on my own. In this case Mutual Assured Destruction of 100 percent ratings worked to his advantage. Keep that in mind for the future: all is not always as it seems.
It would be great if there was a technical way to get around this problem, to add some olfactory component to the original ad. I’d want a 1-10 rating for odor. And it turns out there is technology for this with people actually building electronic noses. But they are even more expensive than ozone machines and can temporarily be fooled by the latter.
The only real answer was to remove the seats and replace the carpet and padding — a thankless job that I farmed out to a local car upholstery guy who charged me several hundred dollars, making the Red Devil less of a bargain and more of a devil than I’d hoped for.
There are times when buying things on the Internet isn’t the best way to go no matter how low the price.
I was stuck for a week with a smoking hotel room in a major Las Vegas Casino. As a non-smoker, I found the room so bad I couldn’t take it. So the hotel hooked me up with one of those $1,000 ozone machines.
It didn’t really help. It could alleviate the smell for a few hours, but eventually, the entire room once again reeked of stale cigarette smoke and ozone.
So every day I would wake up, shower, turn on the ozone machine and leave for work, come back, go to dinner, set the ozone machine on once again, come back and smell ozone.
Bob, what about rinsing the entire inside of the car with something like Simple Green to purge the odors. Or straight vinegar. The car is a loss, so you might as well try something creative to purge the smell.
What about Soylent Green instead? Made from the seller. 🙂
“I got nowhere with the seller. Yes, we both had 100 percent ratings at risk but he’s the sales guy and I’m not. He chewed me up and I was on my own.”
Well that’s capitalism for you.
Would he have faired better under some other form of government?
Would he have faired better under some other form of government?
Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It’s an economic model.
Well, if I were you I’d let all of my readers know the name of the seller.
I used this sort of cloud-notification threat with a well-known purveyor of MP3 players near you and, when they figured out I wasn’t just bluffing but really am an INFLUENCER in the digital audio world, they quickly sent me a replacement unit at no charge.
That’s exactly what the Freakonomics author did in one of the last chapters of the book. He described how a local restaurant had served him rancid chicken, and then – after tasting it and considering the situation – decided to make things right by merely making his drinks free, but still charging for the tainted meal.
The author figured this analysis of risk made sense to the restaurant manager at the time … but then the author gave the restaurant name & address in the book.
This article gives 10 ideas of how to deal with such situations. Note – my AVG claimed it blocked a threat on the page.
https://www.itstheroi.com/rant/10-ways-consumers-can-get-revenge-online/
Nice family. Congratulations.
The rest … you alreday fixed it, so your aim was accomplished: beautiful kids. I have a beautiful son too (he’s 20, law student).
Regards
“I got nowhere with the seller. Yes, we both had 100 percent ratings at risk but he’s the sales guy and I’m not. He chewed me up and I was on my own. In this case Mutual Assured Destruction of 100 percent ratings worked to his advantage.”
I don’t understand why he was able to “chew you up” (or what that means exactly).
Is it because if you ding him with bad feedback, his 100s of transactions mean 1% change in rating? I.e., he can ding you more than you can ding him with the feedback game?
A seller’s score is inherently more important than a buyer’s score (unless it’s really low and sellers refuse to sell to you, which clearly wouldn’t be the case here). I don’t think you had much to lose by risking your 100% score.
I’d still run it through CarFax. That’s one of my requirements PRIOR to buying any cars on line. You want to make sure it wasn’t a flooded car. If it was, then you have to keep an eye on the electrical components.
The Achilles’s Heel of mutual feedback systems is exactly that problem. The seller should get a bigger hit than the buyer in the event of a failure of a good deal, with the exception of bad paying customer complaints. If you actually had a segregated fault system with different hit levels, the seller would not be able to react like that. I’ve had the same problem with audio equipment on Ebay and some books on Amazon.
I did. The CarFax was clean. They don’t have a category for smell, either.
There’s really no reason for you not to name the seller. You have nothing to lose, and he has a bit to lose.
eBay does arbitration… but too late for that this time.
You should have dinged the seller, and IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!
What can the seller say, the car didn’t stink and you’re crazy?
(By the way, “Capitalism sucks”: How’s your life hating capitalism working out, since you apparently don’t participate?)
You did the smart thing by replacing the upholstery instead of trying to douse the vehicle with air freshener. You definitely don’t want your kids inhaling that amount of air freshener, and who knows what kind of microbial nasties were lurking inside the upholstery of that truck?
How about letting your kitty sleep in the car? She of course loves mice, so she’ll be thrilled to be there. The mice have a reputation of not being very fond of cats… .So there you have it: a nice solution to your problem and a happy cat too 🙂 Case closed.
We have no kitty, also no mice because the damage was done long before. Only the smell remained.
How about letting your kitty sleep in the car? She of course loves mice, so she’ll be thrilled to be there. The mice have a reputation of not being very fond of cats… .So there you have it: a nice solution to your problem and a happy cat too 🙂 Case closed.
Sorry about the double posting…. It takes forever to get a response after hitting the Post button… so I hit it again … of course, no way to delete the second post…
Seriously Bob, do something about this pitiful server or host of yours. If you can’t find the reason why it is so slow, you surely must have a friend or two who know about these things and could take a look at it.
We’re changing hosts in about 10 days, which should substantially improve many things.
While you’re at it, please remove the “return-to-top” button and the “Howdy, Robert…” bar at the top. When the page is zoomed in to make the comments easy to read, those get bigger too and overlap the text. By the way, thanks for the word-wrap. (I guess the new date for the new server is June 4th instead of May 15th.)
While you’re at it, please remove the “return-to-top” button and the “Howdy, Robert…” bar at the top. When the page is zoomed in to make the comments easy to read, those get bigger too and overlap the text. By the way, thanks for the word-wrap. (I guess the new date for the new server is June 4th instead of May 15th.)
Prior to this comment, the count at the top reads “29” even though there are 33. Another problem to blame on the server or the browser? Looks like something else is amiss. Last year’s (and prior year’s) setup was fine, perhaps it was too expensive to keep it. Perhaps you could let us know what you were using back then, just to satisfy our curiosity. They at least deserve a plug.
Prior to this comment, the count at the top reads “29” even though there are 33. Another problem to blame on the server or the browser? Looks like something else is amiss. Last year’s (and prior year’s) setup was fine, perhaps it was too expensive to keep it. Perhaps you could let us know what you were using back then, just to satisfy our curiosity. They at least deserve a plug.
Prior to this comment, the count at the top reads “29” even though there are 33. Another problem to blame on the server or the browser? Looks like something else is amiss. Last year’s (and prior year’s) setup was fine, perhaps it was too expensive to keep it. Perhaps you could let us know what you were using back then, just to satisfy our curiosity. They at least deserve a plug.
If anyone is curious, it’s been 10 days since the last “new server” expected date. Comment count is still way off. Let’s see how quickly this post integrates with the others.
I had a customer that was a development chemist tasked with finding the best odor absorber for his company. The best and also the cheapest is activated charcoal. quoting him nothing is better. take some 3″ high cardboard flats ( short boxes) and fill them with charcoal briket set these under the seats and in the cargo area. change them out a few times. you may have to have a detailer cleen the carpets and upholstry. Jim.
Bob, a seller can’t leave negative feedback for a buyer anymore, so ding him if it’s not too late; your pristine score is safe…
http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/sellerprotection.html
So when buying a car online, how do you pay? I would want a check to clear before I deliver.
I wired the money.
Wow. You’re braver than I realized.
My brother in law is an attorney in Houston TX who buys cars all the time on eBay. He says the overwhelming number of sellers are good folks, and it is fairly easy to check them out in advance. He also has a lengthy list of federal civil and criminal penalties for wire fraud that he shares with the seller prior to each transaction, just to make things very clear, and the seller signs his sales contract before he wires the money. A terrible odor is not the same thing as wire fraud of course, I will have to ask him about that kind of thing to see if his sales contract addresses that situation
I wonder why he “buys cars all the time”. The last time I bought a car was 1993. It seems once he got a good one he wouldn’t need another for a long time unless he’s in the used car business.
I bought a used Honda Accord from a dealer for a really good price. He had just gotten it as a trade-in and hadn’t yet had it inspected or qualified it for the Honda used car warranty. It had a slightly musty odor and he let it go for a lower price than he would have otherwise. I took it home and cleaned out 3 years worth of accumulated decaying leaves from the air intake area near the windshield wipers. I put some boxes of baking soda under the seats. The odor vanished. My wife had been happily driving it for the past 6 years.
I agree air fresheners are a waste of money and do not destroy odors, only temporarily reduce your olfactory sense. However, the fabric spray Febreze does seem to remove some odors. The original Febreze does this. I now see many products with the name Febreze that appear to be air fresheners.
Buying a used car without looking it over? Not me.
Try Odo-Ban (avail most big box stores) eucalyptus – has gotten the most horrendous smells out of car mats soaked with noxious lattes spilled by teen and nasty closed refrigerator smells and closed room mildew. Remember the Da da da VW commercial where the kids pick up the “free” chair and dump it a block later?
Contact the Miyachi brothers (sp?) https://www.cartalk.com/content/our-show they have done several on stinky cras. Can’t remeber the chemical/brand recommended.
The only thing worse than mouse urine, is cat urine.
The good thing about those mid-late 90’s Grand Cherokees is the AC has long since failed, so the open windows will help clear the air over time.
Hey Bob, perhaps we should give some credit to Jimmy Durante: “Durante had a famous phrase that is also fitting in the world of physiology….. ‘The Nose Knows’.” http://info.rogersathletic.com/get-strong/bid/67305/The-Nose-Knows
My bad smell was mouse pee throughout the insulation lining my used but newly installed oven which poured yellow smoke the first time it was turned on. The mice bailed out and momma mouse took her litter into my sock drawer where the family was reunited. The cat had a nice snack later that day.
Mice in the vehicle? While I’m sure the odor is bad, I’d be more concerned about chewed wiring.
The odor is secondary. Mouse infestation may lead to you or your family members contracting Hantavirus.
See: https://www.victorpest.com/advice/rodents-101/rodent-dangers/rodent-transmitted-diseases
It can be deadly. Cleaning it out requires technicians in hazmat suits. It can cost thousands. You may be better off burning your bargain!!
The odor is secondary. Mouse infestation may lead to you or your family members contracting Hantavirus.
See: https://www.victorpest.com/advice/rodents-101/rodent-dangers/rodent-transmitted-diseases
It can be deadly. Cleaning it out requires technicians in hazmat suits. It can cost thousands. You may be better off burning your bargain!!
I sold an HDMI extender on eBay. For a decade I’ve kept a 100% feedback. And the feedback I’ve received has been absolutely top notch as I only sell items that are clean, absolutely as described, packed well, and shipped super quick.
Due probably to the terrible nature of HDMI compatibility the buyer couldn’t get it to work. I gave him a bit of technical support, and also offer to look at them and check them over again (they were tested before sending). He’s still not happy, so I offer to refund them if he returns them to me. A month later he comes back, still not happy. I re-offer a refund and ask several times for him to return the items to me for the refund.
But apparently offering a full refund still wasn’t good enough. I’ve no idea what else I could have done for him that was fair and reasonable. Yet, I still got negative feedback for a $16 item! eBay of course aren’t interested in fairness to their sellers.
The next items I’m selling are going on Gumtree. Which will be my MacBook Pro 13″ as I’ve just bought a 15″ replacement. That will be about $ 100 of fees eBay won’t see.
Use a carpet cleaner on it (the kind that sprays liquid and vacuums it back from the carpet). Run a lot of water through it.
I’m sorry to hear it, but I’m surprised nobody at least mentioned it’s funny to read this given the similar (sort of) Seinfeld episode (which also actually based on a real life incident).
I’m guessing you’re not telling the seller’s name in your article because you’re concerned about libel? Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but there is no libel liability if you’re telling the truth and not making a personal slur. If I’m right about that, then let it rip!
Perhaps Bob just doesn’t want to go to court to prove he’s telling the truth. Perhaps he can’t prove it since it’s been cleaned up. Some professions keep a team of lawyers on the payroll to protect themselves from truth-tellers and liars alike; even the lawyers don’t know who is telling the truth, which doesn’t matter anyway since they are paid to defend their client.
How much do you want for it?
Either you’ve thrice been cloned, or your kids all have the same haircut as you. I think it’s the former.
“making the Red Devil less of a bargain and more of a devil than I’d hoped for.”
Thousand Dollar Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb4A4q4zYyM
MythBusters has a good episode related to this that surprisingly no one has mentioned – the myth of whether or not one could sell a car that someone died in. They put a dead pig in a Corvette, sealed it, and store it in a shipping container for some timer period (3 months IIRC). Then they tried every means know – including professional cleaning agents – to get rid of the smell before attempting to sell it. In the end, they sold it for parts – I forget if they labelled it “Plausible” or “Confirmed”.
Sorry you ended up with an equivalent scenario.
Not sure that was a valid test since the pig didn’t die in it, nor is it human. Also, I’m not sure about the 3 months either since if someone died in a car they would likely be discovered in much less than 3 months. Mythbusters needs to be more careful about the description of the myth they are investigating.
Car Fax is only as good as the information submitted. Last week I traded locally for a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 52,000 miles. Car Fax was clean and the vehicle too perfect. I decied to go dumpster diving so to speak. .
I learned it had front end and quarter panel damage that had been repaired. And I learned the dealer where I bought it, bought it from a dealer the previous week and their deal was funneled through a third dealer who had allegedly not been in business for 7 years! I had it checked out by a Cherokee owner/auto mechanic to learn all is clean, in good working order, and wear/tear is normal for the miles. But. Four years earlier I bought a Dodge RAM with 19,000 miles and replaced the transmission twice in the following 11,000 miles. Only time will tell if I bought a lemon or a peach.