This week my kids are off school for Spring Break. Daytona and Cabo are out of the question for three caballeros ages 10, 7, and 5, but day trips around the Bay Area to learn about this or that are easy. Tuesday it’s San Francisco to learn all about the cable car system for Channing’s report on that topic. And Wednesday will be Computer History Day for the Cringelys.
It’s a no brainer for us to visit the Computer History Museum in Mountain View. That fabulous facility happens to be run by John Hollar, the guy who hired me in 1997 to write for pbs.org. My kids have never been there. But to make a full day of it we’ll include more than just the museum, we’ll be visiting with some actual computer history pioneers.
We’ll start the day Wednesday having breakfast with Woz — Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. Then it’s on to the museum. After lunch we’ll go to Atherton to visit Doug Engelbart, best known as inventor of the mouse but of course he actually invented so much more. And we’ll end the day in Palo Alto with original Mac OS author Andy Hertzfeld, who now works at Google.
Understand that this is both an adventure and an experiment. Each kid got for Christmas a $99 Samsung HD camcorder and they’ll be bringing those cameras along. If they get any video at all (you never know with my kids) we’ll try to edit it into something and post it here if it’s even remotely viewable.
Now for your part: what questions would you ask these three men? Why? We’ll pick the most interesting and make sure they are asked and answered.
Back to you…
Can I ride along? I promise I won’t complain or ask if we’re almost there yet.
herzfeld: 28 years since orignal mac, and still desktop computer use the same desktop metaphor.
Do you see some siri like, conversational interaction (or anything else) as the next big step? who will do it?
Do you think we’re on the brink of Commander Scott’s assumption of ubiquitous control of the San-Francisco-Whale-Saving-Mac via voice commands? (“Hello computer?”)
For Andy: who else has he met with a reality distortion field like Steve’s? Who else has the magic?
I would have loved to have been your kid. Sounds like a great day. I look forward to the video.
Woz – what apple product success surprised you the most? What, if anything, would you have done differently during your time at apple? how do you spend your time lately?
Hertzfeld – did you think the Mac would be as successful as it was and why or why not? what’s bigger to you – tablets/mobile (ios/android) or voice (Siri)? what attracted you to Google? how do you compare working for google to working at apple during the early days?
To Engelbart: Why are voting rates among the general population so low, and what can be done to increase them?
Brook – I was a big fan of yours when you played for the Cleveland Indians . . .
Am curious to know if the computer museum has an Amdahl machine “yet”.
The lack thereof is a major blemish on their trying to document modern computer history.
Scott
Speaking of video & documenting, any progress on the summer startup tour project from 2010?
Three early innovators, each having quite different backgrounds and experiences leading up to those particular moments of innovation. If three young guys with similar backgrounds popped up today, in which areas do they imagine their young doppelgangers being equally innovative?
Variations on a theme:
If you knew then what you know now, how would you have:
*Woz — made the Apple II different.
*Englebart — promoted the notion of networks and hypertext differently.
*Hertzfeld — created Google+ Circles differently.
dmc
For Woz:
What motivated you during the Homebrew Computer Club days, and what motivates you now?
What an incredible experience this will be. Your kids are very lucky to get to be exposed to the greats. Want to adopt my kids (or me) for the day?
I would ask all of these inventors/pioneers this question: early in your career was there a fear you had to overcome, that if you hadn’t, you might have failed?
What ever happened to the computer museum in Boston? I visited once about 20 or so years ago. I may have some early hobbyists hardware to donate. LOL.
It moved to Mountain View.
WikiPedia is your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Computer_Museum
This question is really for your kids benefit but I’m curious too.
For all three – what is the ONE piece of advice about educating oneself (formal and/or informal) would they give to kids?
HA! Your kids don’t know how lucky they are!!!
I had the pleasure of listening to Woz talk at Gnomedex a few years ago – that alone was worth the price of admission.
Two things. Your children are the luckiest kids in the world. Also, you could do a lot for a charity of your choice to auction off a trip like that. Wow.
My question would be: Do they think that computers will eventually become part of the human body/mind? And if so, predict an unintended consequence of a computer becoming the “fourth” brain of each human being.
SO wish I could be one of your kids for a day. But, did any of these pioneers, including you, EVER imagine ANYTHING coming like it is today? I’ve read your predictions for years and they’re so-so. But what about the bigger picture? The tech, the social developments, the government, the politics, the business, etc.? Did any of you ever predict Apple coming back as it has? That we’d all be sitting here with such powerful machines in the palm of our hands? That the Net (twitter, etc.) could help change governments? Did any of you foresee this kind of thing way back when? Did ANYTHING like this even occur to you? Have fun. Look forward to your video.
Question to all….
What small and insignificant development, personally to you, turned out to be one of the biggest game changes in IT History?
e.g. It was just an idea, a fill in or a quick fix, that turned out bigger than Ben-Hur.
WOZ: I still remember the apple II, it was my first computer experience. I have to say after all of these years your design is a classic, the interleaving of processor accesses with video output was brilliant. It easy to build stuff, but really hard to make it simple. Kudos.
I wonder if you should mention to them that the Woz taught 3rd grade for a while as well as appearing on Dancing with the Stars. I’d love to see video of them asking him about teaching, why he did it, and how it was for him.
Q: If you were a kid again today what technology would you be in to? Micro-electronics and computers again? or is there something other technology on the ascendant for this century… Robotics, Bio-tech?
Me too. “What do you think would be tweaking your mind, if YOU were at the same stage today?”
For Engelbart, I wonder what he thinks of user group testing for refining a research project into a product. (Apple famously doesn’t do focus groups to design a product, but sometimes they used to test new interfaces by mocking them up and then running them by a test group.)
Also, his system had a lot of manual tagging. I wonder what he thinks of a system that maps out relationships in untagged data, like the IBM Watson.
For any of the gentlemen: What are you doing for fun these days? What tickles their fancy, now.
I have a question you can pose to all of them.
The era of the processor has been going for 40+ years. It has been a good solution for a lot of problems. And every year or two you could count on a bigger/faster part.
Now this is not the case. The top speed has been hit, and multi-core processors are very hard to program. If you look at a die of say an I7 processor. Half of the die is L3 cache and memory controller. The processor itself has the level 1/2 cache, branch prediction, out of order execution, pipe lining, etc. We are working very hard to keep the processor running. Now, you can add on top of all of this the software running multiple processes. These take time to save context and start on the next process.
It is starting to look like the era of the processor is coming to an end. I hate to use the work, but it is time for a paradigm shift in how we solve problems. When it shows up it will look like a weed eater or the Iphone. And we will all say why didn’t I think of that. So I have some thoughts on where we will end up, but I would like to hear some words from these three men.
Artificial intelligence…will it ever happen?
Both Hertzfeld and Woz:” The GUI has gone as far as it can go. What do you imagine the next successful interface will be?”
Q. What made you get into this field, was it planned or was it an accident?
Q. Do you think there are the same opportunities now as when you started work?
Q. Do you love your work?
Q. Do you think kids are different today?
So much envy from such a short post. Can you adopt me?
To Doug Engelbart:
* What other invention would you like to be remembered of other than the mouse?
* Where do you see MMI going from touch? will it be voice activated, brain, both or back to the keyboard and mouse?
Is the “Why” still intact in the Apple Culture of 2012?
I am referring to Simion Sinek’s version of why Apple do what they do.
TEDxMaastricht – Simon Sinek – “First why and then trust”
http://youtu.be/4VdO7LuoBzM?t=3m20s
Simon Sinek is a huckster NLP salesman.
Anyone who buys his seminars, and lame merch has been hypnotized. My advice would be to check out his website, and be disgusted.
How this asshat got himself to TED is truly a miracle, and a sad commentary on modern business ethics and practices. Is the business culture truly so bereft of imagination and understanding of anything but the bottom line, that his re-telling of Anthony Robbin’s re-telling of Richard Bandler’s re-telling of Milton Erickson is even necessary?
My condolences sir – you have been had.
For Englebart: Did anyone argue that the new GUI paradigm would not be accepted or not be effective? What were the arguments?
Lucky kids! May I suggest an additional and fabulous museum?
https://www.spn.usace.army.mil/bmvc/
It is the San Franciso Bay Model in Sausalito , preserved from a time when a computer was person with a slide rule and the only way to model fluid was to build a physical model. The Army Corps of Engineers where asked to answer some questions on the fluid dynamics of San Francisco Bay so they built a physical model of it. That huge physical model can now be model digitally on a PC (in fact probably on a smart phone).
My impression is that the highest point in Woz’s design genius was the apple ][ floppy drive where he did not use an expensive floppy controller chip but used a ROM chip as a state machine and made the drive run about twice as fast as the competition.
Usually innovation comes from inspiration from some other field. In the case of the floppy controller I think this reflected a common design pattern used in 6502 software (precalculating and using indexed addressing to make up for an otherwise weak instruction set) being carried into a hardware design.
I’d love to know how inspiration from other fields pollinated their innovations.
I would be particularly interested in Hertzfeld’s take on 37 Signals design ethic versus what has been created with both Google+ and Facebook?
I would like to know what Engelbart thinks of the touch interfaces now prevalent on iOS and Android devices?
From Woz I want to know what he thinks about hardware hacking today
“If you were just starting out now, what field do you think has the same possibilities for rapid change that computers had when you were young?” or “When you were 7 years old, could you have imagined what computers are like now thanks to your contributions?”
This sounds like an awesome trip. I’m jealous of your kids and I wish I got this much intellectual stimulation in MY childhood. That being said…
Please take your kids to the beach once in a while! And don’t lather them up with a ton of sunscreen, let them get a little burnt! Take them on walks and bike rides! If they don’t get enough interaction with people and the natural world, they’ll grow up to work at Google and perpetuate the gear-head culture there that writes great algorithms but fails to understand “humon” problems. Mark my words, it will happen.
Hi.
I’m 50 years old. Will you adopt me?
Pleeeease?
(and I thought it was cool being taken to the Lawrence Hall of Science once a month, in the early 70’s.
Star Trek!! Video? We didn’t need video.)
For all. In 1987 Acorn released the Archimedes with the ARM2 processor running at 8MHz. A 32-bit computer running a 32-bit operating system.
Given that the iPhone uses a later version of the very same IC, at over 100 times the speed, and with multiple cores, and that a modern PC will be several hundred times the clock speed over four cores, why do we now have so much processing power to do a similar job as in 1987? Where are the inefficiencies in today’s technology that demand such huge computing resources just for a PC?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes
It feels like the last 100-150 years or so have seen one game changing Next Big Thing technological development after another. As we move into the teens of the 21st century, it feels like this trend may be winding down – in broadly general terms, we are seeing less in terms of raw innovation and more in terms of refinement of existing technologies. Do Woz-Englebart-Hertzfeld agree with this view, or are they hopeful for / do they see signs of a new wave of truly groundbreaking who-could-have-seen-that-coming Next Big Things on the horizon?
for all 3 – what’s the biggest difference in our approach to “invention” now compared to 30-35 years ago.
Can I be your kid too?
For all three – is our obsession with computers and electronic gadgets making us less human?
For Andy: “Andy, could you describe what it’s like to start a project like Easel, putting your heart, sole and money into it and eventually see it not become successful? How does that affect you and your next venture?”
I’m interested in knowing the psychological affect on Andy as his career evolved and also, what affect it had on his desire to take risks again as an entrepreneur.
To all three of them:
What person most influenced them at an early age that sent them on their life long trajectory in technology?
I think I would want to ask each of them what they find to be the most troubling on the horizon for the computer industry (and hence, our culture) as a whole. Not just challenging, but *troubling*.
As an example, one might note the direction Apple (and probably the rest of the industry following suit) is taking towards removing individual customization and choice by increasingly promoting an entirely closed platform/ecosystem.
Another example might be trying to solve Intellectual Property rights to ensure content creators are fairly compensated.
There are dozens of possible viewpoints on what might be most troubling, but I would love to hear what these three men have to say on the topic, and to hear how they think things have changed (for better or worse) since the days when they began their careers.
That would be really cool.
Tell us about unlikely groups of people who worked well together.
“Tell us about unlikely groups of people who worked well together.”
Oh — I forgot to say why. Because it’s a question that can be answered in a way that might be interesting to kids of 10, 7 and 5 and also interesting to you.
And I care because I was part of a little group that never would have been hired to work together, but had oddly complementary strengths that matched the problem well, so it makes me wonder how often this comes about and how to spot the possibility.
For all three:
What is the most significant development in the computer industry that you have witnessed? Is it the hardware advances, and where we can connect today. Is it more the software advances and how we use the technology?
Oh, and did you see it coming before it became a reality?
I wonder how many people are now going to have breakfast at IHOP on Wed.
I was thinking the same thing, though I don’t live in the area…
“How can I program my computer to do my homework?
In an earlier interview with Andy Hertzfeld you asked him what he thought about today’s Macintosh vs. what he helped start. He replied to the effect that he was very impressed with the hardware, it had advanced beyond what he expected, but ultimately he was disappointed the software had not advanced as much.
My own theory is that this parallels the disappointment in the computer field with artificial intelligence. We thought in the 1960s computers would achieve a human level of intelligence and in the 1970s realized how hard that would be.
I’d ask Andy if he thinks computer-human interaction has plateaued, or stagnated?
Ask Woz if he has a good Pollock joke for the kids. Dude, you have the connections, that’s one super day lined up for the kids and you. Be sure to give us a good writeup.
A joke about delicious, flaky white-fish? That’s a toughie.
I did see this generic fish joke on the Internet, though:
What do you call a fish with no eyes?
Fsh!
Har har har!
Maybe he means the calulator using reverse Pollack notation.
I’d ask both Woz and Andy how they’d teach computer programming to kids. Every time I used to look into the issue, I came up with a different answer. Now my kids are too old for it to matter, I’m afraid.
There are so many satisfying options out there: Game systems like Steam, JavaScript for Kids platforms, raw hardware like Raspberry Pi — which do you choose? When I was 16, I got my hands on a 6502 “training board” that was designed for managers at a local aerospace contractor to get familiar with this new thing called a microprocessor. It changed my life in the same way that the Apple ][ did for a generation of young people.
So how do you interest kids in programming these days?
Doug Engelbart: Even though it wasn’t your own project, were you pleased to see the World Wide Web bring hypertext to the mainstream masses?
if they could go back to the beginning and divert computer development into a different direction, what direction would they have pushed it in?
I was interested to read your article about the Computer History Museum, and that prompted me to look at their website. I was surprised to see nothing on the US Navy Cryptanalytic Bombe built in secret in Dayton Ohio by National Cash Register, a secret kept, for political reasons, for 50 years. I believe the machine they built, and one or two have been found to have survived, was an improvement on British code breaker machines in that it read its data digitally rather than from positions on dials.
Perhaps I misunderstand the mission of the Computer History Museum, its not about all computer history, just some of it. Granted the Navy machines were made in Ohio, not California, but come on, there are some good things that come from Ohio, after all.
@Jim Fearing
If you want Cryptologic history visit the National Cryptologic Museum outside Fort Meade MD. Cool place with a lot of old crypto gear (Enigmas Pinks Crays). Free and open to the public. They give kids a decoder wheel and a puzzle book. Break the “codes” located throughut the musuem and fill in the answers to get a small prize at the end of your tour.
One of the things that came from Ohio (Apple Creek to zoom in a couple more levels) was… Bob!
He was a few years ahead of me, and had a different name…. but he’s from my part of flyover country!
To each,
Do you think today’s K-12 education model is broken, and if so, what can be done?
For all of them, “. . . any regrets or things you would have done differently or wish had gone differently?”
Cheers,
Alan Tomlinson
Is there an update on the new Steve Jobs interview? What happened to that project?
I second this question. I eagerly await when I could share a link or other medium with friends who could not see the film release
For all 3: what will computing be like when your 3 kids are your (Bob’s) age?
For all 3: what computer applications most impress/inspire them today?
for all three: looking back on technology from the discovery of fire to today’s one-atom transistor… what was the most important technology of its age, and what the most important of all time?
that ought to fill up all the memory you can drag along… .
Ask: Who invented the internet? Bill Gates? Al Gore?
I’m a little biased but , my answer is Paul_Baran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Baran#Packet_switched_network_design
Ask for an opinion of the khan academy
Wikipedia doesn’t do Paul Baran justice:
http://popularlogistics.com/2011/10/paul-baran-and-the-origins-of-the-internet-rand/
“May I borrow some money?”
The Computer History Museum has really changed in recent years, for the better; I remember when it was just an extension of their warehouse of “tech junk” at Moffett Field, and the tour of the “visible storage” room was mostly-confusing without a docent.
That’s no longer true.
I would like to know one thing about the Museum: why do they continue to gloss over IBM’s involvement in WWII?
(I wrote a post about this and other thoughts after my last visit to the CHM: http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2011/06/ever-onward-c-h-m/)
How about asking them about the one thing they really wanted to create, but never succeeded doing and why.
Woz – if there were one movie he could star in what would it be?
I want to hear the answer on this one. 🙂
I’d ask two questions all three about the dearth of STEM activities in high school. A lot of these activities are very niche and only involve a few to at most ten students in robotics, build a UAV, engineering club, and game design.
I’ve been involved in FIRST robotics for three years now and while the first two years of the Utah Regional competition were covered by the local media, NOTHING was covered this year in the two local newspapers or the four major TV stations and “pizza roulette” was more news worthy that weekend.
One, is it a national culture that we need to change (away from business, lawyers , stupid crap on facebook and youtube)? or… Two, how do we attract more students/parents/media to these activities despite all of the worthless diversions out there?
If today you found yourself 24 again and full of energy and optimism, what part of technology would you dig into to begin a career? What’s most interesting or looks most fruitful?
Do you think mirrors are the way to go to defend against leprechauns?
I’m fairly sure that there are many much, much better questions than this one, but… I’d ask Engelbart:
“How do you feel about the mouse wheel?”
For Woz: One of your claims to fame is simplifying the original Apple floppy controller to an almost ridiculous extent. What do you see as the most overly complicated device you see in current technology and how would you simplify it?
For Engelbart: Wikipedia says you made your primary career goal to make the world a better place. Which (if any) of your achievements, in your view, has done the most to achieve that goal and why?
For Hertzfeld: For most current applications the web browser is the foundation of the interface. If you could start from scratch, would you do away with the browser? If so, what are the characteristics of the platform would you replace it with? If not, what features do you think make the browser essential?
For all three: what was the most inaccurate information they recall being printed about them or their projects in Cringely’s column during the “in print” days (mostly 1980’s)?
And Mr. Cringely proves once again that who you know is at least as important as what you know…lucky kids, even if they don’t realize it now. 🙂
For all three: What is the single most important invention of the last 50 years? What makes it the most important?
Better yet, make that the single most important idea.
To all three: “Why has Apple been so successful and what can we learn from this?”
For Woz as he is into education:
What does he think of Khan Academy and where it is going? Is this the big break through in learning we were expecting from Computers in education? What would he do different? What is the best potential for the use of computers to improve how and what we learn?
I’ve always been a big believer in that everything is understandable, if one is given a good explanation, and I think the Khan Academy gets at that, though I think it could be better still in non-math and science areas.
For all three:
As the society and industry is changing to a mobile, gesture driven using light weight equipment, what is the most intriguing technologies you see occurring now, and what would you like to see occur in the next 5-10 years?
How close is the field of molecular biology to lighting up technology like computers did when you were doing your first great stuff?
I subscribe to the museum’s YouTube channel … and find the presentations worth watching in most cases:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ComputerHistory
My question is why don’t you offer a guided tour for us big kids? I’d pay to go on the day trip you have planned.
What an awesome experience for the kids.
Well Done Bob!
I would ask each of them where do they think that the personal computer world would be today if they each had gone into other fields. Would others eventually have done what they did, or would the industry have gone in a different direction?
1) Where’s the bathroom?
2) Do you mind if [child x] takes a nap? Seems like I planned way too big a day here.
Easy. Why was NeXT so influential when it was never that (commercially) successful? When will we see anything so disruptive again?
Also – please post pictures of any NeXT systems you see. (PLEASE!)
Enjoy.
For all three. What do you think of the Windows 8 live tile interface?
Please ask Doug Engelbart — what is the next mountain that the industry should climb? Why isn’t the industry getting it right? (I’m going to assume he doesn’t think we’re doing it right.)
Please Thank them for me.
How about a better security system so I don’t get robbed and find out way to late?
Woz :
Do you regularly pump your fists in the air,
and remark to the second person in line,
“First!”
>’As the society is changing to a mobile, gesture driven using light weight equipment, what technologies would you like to see occur in the next 5-10 years?’
This technology looks promising- Android/electric powered birdman?- if only the Big Oil doesn’t shut him down – it is electric powered after all…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgD0fYAaLq4
>When will we see anything so disruptive again?
Soon – his second test flight was successful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GYW5G2kbrKk
>When will we see anything so disruptive again?
Soon – his second test flight was successful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GYW5G2kbrKk
>’As the society is changing to a mobile, gesture driven using light weight equipment, what technologies would you like to see occur in the next 5-10 years?’
This technology looks promising- Android/electric powered birdman?- if only the Big Oil doesn’t shut him down – it is electric powered after all…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgD0fYAaLq4
How have computers empowered and disempowered people? A bit of a loaded question, but I’d love to hear their answers. There was this sense that technology would changed everything and empower the masses. It has, but how has this empowerment been viewed by these pioneers?
I have three examples of a type of question about our currently so-called “advanced” technology. Why is it that when I want to calculate the annual interest on a discounted zero-coupon bond (for tax purposes, for example) I need to pull out my HP-41 calculator that was purchased in the 80s? Why can’t I easily create and host a website from my PC as I did with Windows 98? Why can’t I reliably instant message over my local network without an always-on “server” computer or the Internet being involved, as I could easily do with Winpopup from Windows 98? (Yes, I’m using the 3rd party version, that looses network visibility at times.)
Why are personal computer devices so addictive?
Why have personal computer devices evolved so much faster and further than personal transport devices?
Is wetware the next epoch in computing?
“Why has technology advanced in your area while its stalled in others?”
You could ask them this long unanswered question about the IT World:
What ever happened to Nerd TV Season 2?
Hi there,
I was sitting next to you at IHOP with 2/3 of my kids. I didn’t know who you were but I saw Woz there. I told my boss today that I had breakfast next to Woz and I showed him a pic I took and you were in it. He pointed me to your blog. Funny.
Let me know if you want to see the pic.
we all want to see the pic
Well, his kids and one of mine is in the pic so I won’t be sharing it public. Just on Facebook.
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Does Woz prefer to scrunch or fold the $1000 bills he wipes with butt with? Coins are not great.