Walter Isaacson, in his new biography of Steve Jobs, reveals that Apple is planning to introduce its own televisions, attempting to revolutionize that space in the same way it did mobile phones with the iPhone. He quotes Jobs as having said that he had finally cracked the technical issues of controlling such a TV, though giving no details. This has led to a lot of speculation, but it seems obvious to me that Jobs was referring to IOS 5’s new Siri personal assistance capability. We’ll control our Apple TVs by telling them what to do.
Apple has tried to do TVs before. A few years ago, inspired by the TV success of Gateway and then Dell, Apple had an OEM line of TV’s queued-up and ready to go only to be cancelled when Steve Jobs decided they weren’t good enough. The issue was always controlling the TVs, especially if they were part of a multi-vendor home theater system. We all know the nightmare of multiple remotes, which Apple back then tried and failed to cure.
But Siri is different since it requires no remote. That means in a house like ours filled with little boys no more losing remotes controls, too.
There are two key issues here that make Siri ideal for this control function. First is what I’m calling do what I mean, not what I say. As an intelligent process backed-up by a ton of knowledge on the net, Siri can learn all the devices attached to your system then easily tell them not just what to do, but what you mean. So instead of a big sequence of button pushes, Siri will respond to your command “Get me Dr. Phil” by finding you the latest (or any other) episode of the TV shrink.
The other advantage of Siri (at least for Apple) is what I’d call bait and switch, which is to say that Siri can offer you Dr. Phil from a variety of sources, but the first one will probably be from Apple.
Bait and switch will be Apple’s way of disintermediating TV networks, cable systems, and ISPs, grabbing their TV, movie, and advertising revenue for itself.
Not to mention Google. Apple is hardly going to give up search revenue, either, and Google TV will look pathetic compared to this.
Now that big data center in North Carolina is starting to make more sense.
A reader from Israel first suggested this idea to me. Neither of us know diddly whether it is true, of course, but it makes sense to me.
So Apple’s television would be an iPhone 4S minus the display and telephone parts velcro’d to a big 1080p screen. Figure an extra $100 or so for the Apple bits on a TV that will be marketed initially toward the top of the market but will eventually be aimed, like the iPod, at everyone. Between hardware, content, and advertising there’s another $100 billion market to be conquered there, just for the U.S. Then add extensive language support to Siri and conquer the TV world.
He cracked it alright.
Note — A reader asked why Apple would make expensieve HDTVs rather than cheaper set top boxes like the Apple TV? That’s a good question. And answering it further illuminates Apple’s probable strategy.
Apple may do both, but they’ll want to make high margins for the bits they actually make so it is better to be selling $2000 TVs than $100 set-top-boxes.
Ah, but what if your TV starts taking instructions from the program you are watching. I can see a “where’s the beef” commercial would cause my TV to change channels to a western cowboy movie….
That one is simple, but requires a bit of processing power. Much like noise canceling headsets listen to the outside noise via a microphone and replay an inverted sound wave to cancel the outside noise in the headset, the Apple TV will just need to listen to the audio playback from your system and ignore it.
There are still some technical issues, or rather setup issues, the biggest being how to route all the audio traffic from your home systems through the digital input on the Apple TV. Simple setups aren’t a problem, it’s the other setups you come across that have multiple sources, receivers, etc that could be an issue, but I’m sure that there is a way to deal with that.
And frankly it should work better than the noise canceling headset approach, as the system won’t have to listen for sound to block it, it’ll already have the direct signal with no degradation from microphones. It might have to deal with A to D conversion, but otherwise it should already have a pretty clean source for what to ignore.
It could also be argued that the TV knows what sounds it’s playing and could conceivably invert them itself while “listening.”
I think to avoid confusion, the TV will be like SIRI and you will press a button and speak your commands, maybe into your “stick of gum” sized remote with microphone.
It’s called “Mute”.
I think that there might –might– be an issue that Jobs never considered: the tendency of us to talk back to our television sets while watching. Well, that and the background noise of people watching during a Super Bowl party.
Imagine the game winning drive happening with 30 seconds left in the game, and somebody pipes up “this is way better than Dancing With the Stars!”
Bam! The television switches away mid-pass to seeing Carrie-Ann grading some D-Lister’s dance routine.
I don’t think that will be a problem, however… what a great idea for an AppleTV game to enliven “normal” TV watching!
I would think there would be a remote (to send your voice to Siri, as an integrated microphone on the TV will not pick-up voices very well). The remote is also needed to activate Siri, otherwise as pointed out above, you will have Siri responding to everything if it was running non-stop. So a remote with one button for Siri, and maybe a power button and volume controls seems likely to me.
P.S. Apple might also ship a standard remote as well, just in case Siri does not understand your accent (or you are a mute). I mean, imagine not being able to control your new $2000 TV…
You may already have it. Spell it iPod, iPhone or iPad. All are on the network, it is not hard to tie the Apple products together.
Lots of nice features get unlocked, like “what are the kids watching?”
One need look no further than the hilarious “Black Clock of Time” episode of HBO’s “Bored to Death” to see the fallacy of a voice-only controller for something with so many variables as a television schedule. It’s called enunciation.
I think it’s much more likely that the primary controller is a gesture pad with voice to augment it. But I agree that the breakthrough is in the controlling. I’m not sure how they solve the business side so that they play nice with all the existing settop boxes.
There a gesture pad sort of remote out like now, in the shape of a ‘Harry Potter-esque’ wand. You’re supposed to wave the wand in certain gestures, and it will then perform a command. Kind of like marry-ing a Wii-mote to regular television functions.
Or better yet, what if Apple’s new TV listens to our conversations and tries to sell us products? I can envision a new line of shoes, the iShoes. Everytime Bob’s wife, Mary Alyce is in the room iShoe promotions pop up on their TV.
When Walmart wanted to put permanent RFID tags in clothes I had this image of Walmart figuring out who we were and tracking us through their stores. When we approached something Walmart thought we should buy, they could automagically do something to bring it to our attention.
Could Apple be going a step further and is bringing it into our homes?
I can only imagine a backlash if that happens. There are times when we don’t want to be sold things, and if an Apple or some other company does what you’re suggesting, I can only see Apple getting a lot of ire shoved its way.
After all, browser ad blockers are popular for a reason, and DVRs thrive on the ability of users to skip ads.
Lovely to see speculation and then people complaining already about something that doesn’t exist. They won’t be ruining people’s nights with ads — when have they ever? If Apple does it they’ll do it well. Period.
Besides, all they really need to do to revolutionize tv is to elegantize search and remotes.
Ah… Deep sigh! This kind of thinking gives me hope – not just for Apple but also in the faith I put in Cringely-dot-com to give me useful insights! 😉
More down to earth, I have to confess to never having (yet) bought in to TIVO and it’s ilk. Yes, I’m relatively tech-savvy but I still have a couple of DVD recorders, a Freeview (free UK digital TV) Sony TV and an extra Freeview box “just in case” and do my own mix-and-matching when needed, So far the UK has never (in my opinion for where I live) given me fast enough broadband for any form of Internet TV except in catch-up low-res mode. A good roof aerial and amplifier gives me all the digital I need. So far… If Apple can supply all this through the ether (as opposed to etherNET!) then all well and good.
Thinking this through it will have to be a technically feasible and compelling solution that makes me take on board something like this. I want to but just worry about the underpinnings…
A portable musical-player with integrated desktop software was one thing; a first-class phone another, but can TV be revolutionised so easily?
Maybe, but a TV or an add-on box for your current TV? I’d say it has to be the later, most people don’t replace their TV nearly as often as a phone, or laptop. People replace a TV to go bigger, or better picture, or to replace a dead TV. Not just to get different features. And with an add-on box, there’s the battle for HDMI inputs.
Seems like lots of thinks “to crack.”
Last time folks talked about “cracking” televisions? They meant Nintendo Wii controllers slipping loose and impaling screens.
With or without speech recognition, some point (at the screen)-and-click functionality would be an improvement on direction buttons for navigating among the endless rows of movie posters in (today’s) AppleTV and Netflix interfaces, “chapter” selection and “scrub bars,” ever-scrolling programming grids and the configuration setttings for the TV itself.
Besides, a TV can’t ship with ^only^ speech recognition navigation any more than it can ship without closed captioning.
Not sure the “cracked it” has anything to do with actually manufacturing TVs. In an interview with Charlie Rose on the new BloombergTV+ app, Isaacson hints that Jobs told him a number of things about future products that he won’t reveal and the “cracked” is just part of the story. I just can’t see Apple making TVs in all the sizes people need and it’s not a good experience if I can’t roam between the small one in my office to the big one in the living room to the medium one in the bedroom. Just doesn’t fit the simplicity grid Apple uses with product lines.
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Could the “cracked” be the realization that there are just too many entrenched middlemen (networks, cable systems, etc) in the TV space to disrupt directly and the way to do it is to sidestep them? Two data points – First, Conde Nast has said they saw a huge increase in app downloads since the new Newsstand app appeared in iOS5 – Second, the BloomberTV+ app gives you the Bloomberg network outside the cable cabal. – What if the “cracked” is that TV shows/networks each have apps and there is a TV version of the Newsstand. The system is an enhanced AppleTV similar to the current one, any iDevice as the controller with Siri, and Airplay as the transport?
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It’s an end around instead of a direct assult.
Agreed. The TV hardware is a commodity, that most people have replaced in the past few years.
The device *between* the TV and the content provider is where the magic happens.
There seems to be a problem with the CSS file on your blog. I’m seeing it in plain text on a white background without any formatting. I’m using the latest Firefox.
Please check it out as it’s been this way for a few days.
I don’t see anything obviously wrong in the page source, but the stylesheet for the WordPress theme is not being displayed.
P.S. It seems to display okay in IE.
Well, he either does not read his own blog (highly unlikely), or does not know how to fix it (more like it), or does not care (highly probable). So stop bitching and live with it.
Still having the same issue in Firefox. It works in IE and Chrome.
Steve Gibson is still a fan of Firefox but he had to go way back to the version before 4.0: “If any listeners have been seeing the same things, for what it’s worth, 3.6.23 works just beautifully. Yeah.” https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-323.htm
Siri: Show me NerdTV season 2.
or more likely:
“Siri, find the best 1080p torrent of avatar, start download, text me when completed and send invitations for Friday night movie night to the gang”
Siri will reply: “Don’t steal movies, Andy”
Just tell Seri “Verify that I, my friends in the gang being invited, and the fellow who uploaded it, all have a copy of it in their iTunes paid library; if not, invite the cops as well.”
Perhaps I should clarify:
“Siri, torrent the backup of my Avatar BluRay from my online storage…”
Or better yet, grab it from the NAS were I store way too many DVD images that I never seem to have time to watch, you know, like my Apple TV box does…wait, that’s right, it doesn’t. Maybe that would be a nice feature – no requirement for iTunes, but if you want to use it go ahead.
> Then add extensive language support to Siri and conquer the TV world.
This actually is not going to happen.
First Hungarians stop speaking Hungarian, before Siri experts add it to the language line-up.
Maybe that’s exactly what awaits us. Death of low-volume or difficult languages because of lack of access to newest technology.
I have been wondering lately why Apple lacks it’s own search engine?
They have their own app store for Macs and iPhones.
They have a music/movie store.
Microsoft has a search engine.
Why no search engine for things off the computing device?
They have really great search functionality in the MacOS. It would be logical if searching on your device if you could search beyond the device. Search your local area network, search the house, search the internet, search movies for one scene you can naturally find through iTunes.
The more I think about it, the more I find it strange Apple doesn’t already have a product in this multi-billion dollar category.
Isn’t that what Siri really is, a search engine? It’s not a generic one like Google & Bing, it’s more targeted, uses niche online websites/databases. As they expand Siri, who know what all it will be able to target/search.
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Search Italian restaurants in Google or Bing and you get a bunch of blue links. With Siri you get the ones closest to you (location) with reviews, etc. All more relevant than the generic searches.
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Siri is Apple’s search engine and it may just disrupt the generics.
If the TV has multiple microphones then it can isolate the speech from viewers versus other audio. The usual solution is to have an attention word, although that seems lame, especially if you want to do something like change the volume since it may involve saying “TV, volume up” several times.
I wonder what they will do about audio output. A thin TV will have terrible sound, but having an AV receiver means yet another far more complex device to control. Perhaps the “Apple TV” will actually be a receiver and some speakers, turning the TV into a dumb panel (hence you can use anyone’s).
“The usual solution is to have an attention word, although that seems lame, especially if you want to do something like change the volume since it may involve saying “TV, volume up” several times.”
But… even in the future, Captains Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, et al, all started their voice commands with “Computer…”
I’m already nervous about Siri. This morning I found my new iPhone 4S watching the “Hal” scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Technically this wouldn’t even be the second or third time Apple has tried to make inroads into the TV market. Probably the earliest was the Macintosh TV from 1993 which was based on the LC 520/Performa 520 chassis. It was available from a very limited number of retailers for only about 4 months. The Mac TV could even act as a rudimentary TiVo (6 years before TiVo itself came into being), although the recording resolution was very limited. The Power Macintosh 5500/6500 series also supported a TV/FM radio tuner card, with support being dropped after the Power Macintosh 6500/250. Apple had apparently planned to support a tuner card with the G3 line, but for whatever reasons those plans were scrapped. That didn’t stop some people from populating the G3’s boards to add the “missing” functionality to their own machines though, see http://web.archive.org/web/20071104111656/https://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/g3tv-1.html for one such example.
A few years ago (2006?) the creepy faction at Google announced a program which would listen to your TV program and show you “related content” in your computer.
This went away quickly at the time.
I have no doubt that an Apple created device would produce a wonderful user experience (although I doubt it would match Cringely’s vision). But the real problem is the “Go to market” strategy that Jobs talked about at AllThingsD. If he really did “crack” the television market, he was talking about that. The interface is the least of Apple’s worries. Overcoming resistance from the content providers and the cable carriers is the real stumbling block.
Thanks for bringing us back to the real problem. There are no technical issues at all (except with Internet delivery perhaps). Only political and drm issues. Remember, Mac users still can’t play blu-ray on their Apple devices but I doubt it’s because of some technical issue.
“Overcoming resistance from the content providers and the cable carriers is the real stumbling block.”
Isn’t it really “just” the content providers/producers? Seems to hinge on what contractual restrictions may be in place that wouldn’t allow they to add another distribution channel (AppleTV)
The cable industry is a $90B/year business. I don’t think the MSOs are going to take any threats to it lying down.
“Cracked” or not, there must be a better way to navigate and manage the hundreds of channels and other sources of content that are now available. The current method, picking through a spreadsheet on the TV screen is awfully tedious.
The problem isn’t the spread sheet (grid), it’s trying to use it via a TV screen. My solution is to look at several websites’ customized grids on the pc in advance, copy the specific program descriptions I plan to record into Notepad, then save printouts of the descriptions with the recordings. Doing this once a day is all it takes to keep up with all the daily and seasonal schedule changes.
So Apple has “cracked” the TV control nut? BFD, traditional network TV is going the way of the floppy drive. I cancelled my digital cable subscription two months ago. We were paying for 900+ channels of crappola, and only watching one or two programs on a regular basis. The programming/control model that Apple seeks to simplify is already d-e-a-d.
i’ve gone further, don’t watch crappola at all. just use the cable to get the “i”.
The “attention” word would be something that seldom if ever would be used in normal conversation, maybe a group of such words. Users could of course change this attention word to suit themselves.
The system setup routine would adapt the single master clicker (or voice controller) to take charge of whatever additional devices were being used. In a noisy household, the user might prefer a master clicker. In a quiet household, the voice controller might be preferred.
Automatic upgrades would be available for both controllers as new devices were introduced to the public.
“The ‘attention’ word would be something that seldom if ever would be used in normal conversation, maybe a group of such words. ”
I think that’s why they kept using the code word for “Siri”. It’s perfectly unique.
Serioulsly, are you serious? 🙂
As for wifi, imagine super-strong reception thanks to the antenna wrapped around the entire perimeter of the television!! 🙂
Apple surpassed everyone when they priced the iPad at $499. Everyone thought it would be much higher but Apple had all their supply chains set up so that they could sell it at that price and make money. Hardly any other tablet maker can do the same.
So maybe they could do the same with TVs.
Although they are hardly giving away their Cinema Displays…
I cannot help but to question validity of criticism from tech savvy commenters here. Apple’s proven forte is to create a compelling user experience for non-tech-savvy consumers, which tech-savvy users find limiting and frustrating. I’m rather certain commenters here find already existing technologies completely adequate and succeed in utilizing them in consuming media content in however way they choose. I don’t think this is the customer group Apple is intending on addressing.
I think much more relevant bit of information in judging future success would be the reaction from technophobic consumers after actually interacting with the speculated Apple TV.
Apple has lot more smarts on various ways of breaking things, and will try all of those before a product is released! That is what Steve Jobs’ credo is!
God help you if you post something that disagrees with an Apple product being the best ever with no bugs. Some fanboy will come on and say “no, you see that’s by design and not a bug. Steve wanted it that way.” One day you guys will have a tv set that tells you what to do and not the other way around. Please don’t start thinking for yourselves because the rest of us won’t have anyone to mock.
It will be interesting to see how well Siri does past the honeymoon period. Even with 95% reliability, a 5% error rate, particularly if it is persistent will piss people of to no end. It would be like a waiter with a weak grasp of english who gets 5% of the orders wrong.
As for the remote control problem, I’d much rather have tablets well integrated with my home theater installation. A remote which changes modes to reduce buttons to a manageable level while providing listings on a panel.
Maybe they won’t need that US$ 100 circuit, because it *will* have a remote: a siri-enabled iPhone 4S.
Yes, the 2M sq ft North Carolina data center piece has just snapped into the puzzle. Think Watson, except instead of wasting time on Jeopardy! trivia it does something useful, like crushing Google. The TV and movie domains will be a very small, but useful chunk of the ontology. I am about as big an IMDB user as anyone, but I will be very interested in experimenting with accessing those data through Siri.
This is how the Apple TV might actually work in voice mode…
Assumptions:
1. You’ll address the TV as “Siri” by default but you’ll be able to change that.
2.When you have a request for Siri you’ll follow this protocol (tip of the hat to Star Trek, etc.):
3.(You) Siri! (pause)
4.(Siri, after lowering the TV volume and/or providing some audiovisual indication that she is ready for a request) Yes?
5.(You) Blah blah blah
6.(Siri, after interpreting the “blah blah blah” and doing something) OK?
7.(You) “Yes”, after which Siri restores the volume and/or cancels the audiovisual indication; or “No”, to which Siri responds “Shall we try that again?”; or “Forget it!” To which Siri responds “OK” and restores the volume and/or cancels the audiovisual indication. If you say “No” it’s like you said “Siri” at the start. You can say “Forget it” at any time to cancel the request, even while Siri is “thinking”. If you say nothing, she will assume she did well.
2. Siri will only take requests from persons whose voices she has been trained to recognize.
3. Upon initial power-on/pressing a re-Siri button (with a paper clip stuck in a small hole on the upper right side of the TV) Siri will ask you to say “Siri” several times varying volume, etc. each time. She will then recognize and take requests from you and anyone else you introduce to her, e. g. family, friends and guests. Anyone can say “Forget it” to cancel a request.
4. Since a request is only taken from learned people and must follow the above protocol this should pretty much eliminate extraneous requests stemming from Siri’s misinterpretation of your or your family/friends/guests’ conversations. (The soundtrack cancellation capability will preclude program material from doing the same.) Should one occur in spite of these safeguards you can say (yell?) “Forget it!” and Siri will remove herself having only lowered the volume momentarily. You won’t miss the big play or the punchline to a joke.
It’s that simple! Besides Siri on the iPhone, there will likely also be an iPhone/iPad/iPod App with which to command and configure the TV over WiFi and to support people with speech difficulties. But make no mistake! Siri will be the preferred way to control the Apple TV.
Note that vision impaired folks will be able to operate the TV because Siri will be listening when the TV is “Off”.) Hearing impaired folks will be able to operate the TV because one of the audiovisual indications that Siri can use will be Text (“Yes?”, etc.) displays in the upper right hand corner of the TV display. This will make it easy to turn on sub-titles.
Note also that while Siri will likely favor Apple media solutions, it will also learn the kludge of media sources you have and will greatly simplify their use. To do this, Siri will likely take a look at your media sources and ask you appropriate questions after she learns your voice.
After thoughts:
Maybe unplugging and replugging the power cord vice the paper clip. In this case, Siri would ask if you wanted her to learn a new person.
Siri might ask the person’s name when she learns him/her.
Google don’t even think about copying this!
Damn, that could be sexy. Instead of passively watching you could participate. Imagine thousands or millions of people responding to Jeopardy questions. The final contestant of survivor would have to be voted on by anyone watching – in real time. It would be a blur between “TV” and the internet.
Two things of note:
1. A patent just came out that talked about controlling your iPad “from across the room” using gestures. Sure. Just like my mouse has a click wheel on it.
2. Apple has a, what, 30% overall profit margin?
Take the tv, and (a) put the iphone videocamera in the dead center of it (there’s a patent on that), (b) stick the guts of an iPhone in the thing, and (c) charge $300 more than a comparable TV.
Now you have several things. A FaceTime capable tv where you’re not looking over the person; a smart TV that can understand either gestures or voice commands; a video console that can play Angry-Birds-Meets-Wii. And for $300 more than a standard TV? Yowza.
If Apple could open Siri up to third parties (somehow), you could be speaking ‘Siri’ to a wide range of appliances (lighting systems, thermostats, etc). 😛
And the George Orwell Memorial Rotisserie award goes to those hell bent on having internet connected televisions with microphones and cameras 😛
[Me] “Siri, disintermediate the media distribution hegemony and let me buy my content directly from those who produce it and not the schmuck who keep cancelling my favourite shows”
[Siri] “I’m sorry Dave, I can’t do that…”
And the key thing here on the speech recognition fro=nt is that in the controlled audio environment of your living room/theater speech recognition can be pretty effective. This versus asking serious for closest pizza joint while standing on street corner on upper west side of manhattan.
But will Siri get me The Summer of George?
A TV that responds to voice? That’s Jobsian genius for you!
A high-profit (for Apple) TV that responds to voice? That’s fantastic! Give me three of them, now!
It will enable couch potatoes to become leaden couch potatoes. Sheer genius. You won’t even have to touch the thing. It will be an objet d’art in and of itself. Maybe you won’t even have to plug the gadget in. Admire its aesthetics; have it display a ghostly image of Steve Jobs in low-power mode.
Looks like the Steve Jobs RDF is alive and well in your neighborhood!
Missing the point, folks… Siri is only as useful as the automation behind it. On an iV the interface will be simple when you can ask to see anything that’s currently being broadcast or that has been on, and it is shown. Period. As rxc mentioned, it’ll aggregate them from Apple and other providers.
This will be wildly disruptive. Channels will be irrelevant, “networks” will simply be brands when you can get anything you want from one interface. Tivo, much as I love mine, will be toast when you no longer need to bother to record anything. There won’t be a difference between on-demand and on-air. And internet media can be the same as cable/broadcast shows.
Social influence will be huge — imagine asking ‘what are the funniest comedies?’ and getting a list of the top 10 as rated by iV users.
Another factor in making the user experience simple will be the billing model. If you have to consider which source to get media from every time, or think about the price, it isn’t simple. It won’t be free, by any stretch of the imagination.
“Siri can learn all the devices attached to your system then easily tell them not just what to do, but what you mean. So instead of a big sequence of button pushes, Siri will respond to your command “Get me Dr. Phil”
The real problem is that currently, set-top boxes can’t communicate with your tv, so Siri can’t do that as well. So Apple will probably create a new proprietary connector enabling a seamless experience; just connect the device and your TV will know what the device can do and how to operate the device. No more multiple remotes, no complex infrared solutions, etc.
Apple has done this with their iPod connectors already: every car radio nowadays comes with an iPod connector. In the future every set-top box will ship with an Apple TV connector.
Siri isn’t the key to this, it’s just a useful addition.
It doesn’t have to be a new physical connector to the cable box. It might be hdmi plus location detection using IP mappping. That would reveal the potential service providers and the hdmi could narrow it to a single one. It would also mean the iV could work with existing cable, fiber and satellite equipment. Cars have iPod connectors so the car can contro the iPad. I don’t think that is the case here.
So the reason that the iV is a TV rather than a set-top box is that it has hdmi IN rather than out. An stb would need both. Or a purely IP-based service, which is also possible.
The next connection is delivering the audio. Would that be done wirelessly? Apple could introduce its own speakers that work with the iV and all other iOS devices. They could have an enhanced version of Airplay that would allow more audio channels and managing which speaker gets which channel. If the iV can detect distance and direction to each speaker and its type, you just place the speakers in the room and the iV can assign the proper channel to each. Or they ship as a set and you place them based on a label on the speaker. Since the iV will have audio input, it can also listen to each speaker and adjust the delay and volume for each one. You can still hook up your own audio system but you will have to do the setup yourself if you do.
If Apple delivers the audio to the speakers, they will need to license audio codecs.
Then there is the Bluray/DVD playback issue. Not that iV needs it, but people have these discs and won’t be happy if they’re expected to throw them away. Apple could use its iTunes match to validate the disc, or upload it if it’s the user’s own home video. That would mean the iV has a Bluray drive option. Once you’ve played the disc it is in iCloud and you never need to insert it again.
HDMI only allows very limited communication between devices. A proprietary connection would allow advanced communications, transforming the set-top boxes effectively to apps for tv. Apple can then control the entire experience, and that is what Apple is all about.
$2000 for a tv? Neh. Apples most successful products aren’t that expensive.
What can Google do? If they go without a Siri clone, they would fall behind. If they follow Apple and implement Siri’s twin sister, their current business model is done. They will have to reinvent itself.
Siri to Google (on behalf of Steve Jobs); Checkmate.
This is my take for a universal remote. A touch screen device like a smart phone without the phone RF, but an Infrared Output device and whatever else that is common (do we have radio remote controls?). Remote Control for various devices will now be applications to be downloaded from the Iphone or Android App store. It could have an input device for learning the functions of an existing remote device. One device can then replace all of your remote controls. You can even automate your device from this intelligent universal remote control device. Call it IRemote, GRemote, XRemote, whatever.
How much is a Siri solution worth? Is going without a remote worth $100 more in cost? $500? $1000?
The question is valid because televisions are commodities, and if Apple creates a set top box, then we’re right back to the 80s with the cable box. I don’t see Apple going the set top box route, because it would be an “inelegant” solution.
In this market, even with Siri, Apple isn’t competing with the high end videophile manufacturers, they’re competing with Vizio. The stunning success of iPhone and iPad is because Apple cracked into the Vizio level market. In order for Apple to get into that market, they might have to sell their Siri solution at a loss.
Also, bypassing the cable companies has another unintended side effect. Is it worth it biting the hand that feeds Siri? Cable companies provide internet service to the majority of Americans, and I don’t think they’d be so thrilled about Apple’s solution. Hell, I could see them monitoring service to Apple’s datacenters and throttling back throughput if that meant they could keep you on their offerings. Apple will have to be ready for that sort of technical challenge if they want to keep Siri alive.
It looks like the people I called at Apple almost seven years ago listened to my rant. I called and asked to speak to a person to whom I could suggest new developments and product ideas to. I can’t remember the name of the person I spoke to. I told them that they should enter the phone market and why and also to enter the TV market and how and why.
It’s good to see that they were open to new ideas. 🙂
I should call again and give them another idea. 🙂
Do you work for McKinsey per chance?
Wow, every technical person is debating how will it work. It does not MATTER!!
Apple has a unique position. That is Bob’s point. They can charge 2x and people will line up to get the first one in the store. People do not wait for version 3 with Apple. Do any of you see how HUGE that is. All the other players are fighting over pennies, while Apple is printing $100 bills.
Apple is building a complete electronic ecosystem that customers never have to leave. Apple phone, music, laptop and now TV. It all works the same.
There is also the Netflix angle. When a friend recommends you watch Nerds 2.0, you speak it into the phone. Bip bang, and there it is on the TV when you get home. The bill comes two weeks later. Netflix better stop doing stupid things or Apple will destroy them.
Content will come when they are the biggest provider online, and can insure Hollywood the media does not get pirated on Apple ecosystem devices. The same devices the executives use every day.
Many people don’t remember that after the dot com bubble crash, Apple shares were trading at 9 dollars and change. I didn’t buy any because of Apples longtime romance of proprietary, predatory products that stalk competition and try to lock them out.
For me, the info we volunteer to smart devices and “social” media is ridiculous. If your DOCTOR asked you for some of the stuff that you willingly PAY to supply to your smart phone (pick one), you’d wonder if he was some kind of pervert.
How about just putting the velcro on the bottoms of your remotes, keeping the services separate and sticking the remotes together in one big, IMPOSSIBLE to lose lump? 🙂
“I didn’t buy any because of Apples longtime romance of proprietary, predatory products that stalk competition and try to lock them out.”
Which has made them the most valuable technology company in the world. So clearly consumers want products that are quick, look good and just work.
And it arguably that control that allowed them to negotiate with the big record labels assuring them they could control the content via DRM.
People fight to get the remotes. Who’s side will SIRI take when one person wants to watch one channel, and the other person wants to watch the other channel. Taking it to next level, can see someone will take SIRI to court over domestic disputes decisions.
Hey Bob – just and FYI but your layout/style sheet is broken on osx lion Chrome… It looks to me like the style sheet isn’t loading at all. I can send you a screenshot.
rjg
Ive two Apple TV units in my home, hooked into mye iTunes library, iTunes store, Netflix and because I’m a nerd XBMC.
Hands down the easiest, smallest and quite device I’ve ever owned. Sure it can’t hook into FTA or cable but who cares I’ve got more than enough content streaming.
[…] I, Cringely » Apple gets Siri-ous about TV […]
So who is the new Steve to broker the deal with all the content providers like he did with music in itunes so Siri can bring me my MTV or my football via ESPN or CBS or FOX or whoever? the technical issue is the least of the worries. True the ipod came along and itunes came later to bundle the music, but Steve got all those guys in the room an knocked heads – who’ll do that now? If we’re going to get the content buffet, we want a low price and Hulu and Netflix, and various boxes that already exist aren’t solving the problem. Call me when Apple gets icast for my tv and i can kiss cox and others high price providers good-bye.
Isn’t Apple late to the game for once?
You mention Google in the article, but I think in that space the biggest threat comes from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2011/oct11/10-05XBTVPR.mspx
Microsoft has a lot of assets in their pocket in this case
– Kinect for an efficient voice and motion recognition.
– Scenarios that you mention in the article have been demoed throught the “xbox bing…” (https://www.redmondpie.com/new-xbox-360-dashboard-update-brings-live-tv-youtube-bing-apps-marketplace-and-more-e3-2011-microsoft/) – offering data from several sources
– Search stack – as you mention Apple will need to go after search revenue but unlike Google or Microsoft does not have a search engine infrastructure.
What do you think?
I am no expert, but didn’t Microsoft also have great assets in multi-touch (Microsoft surface) and speech recognition (Tellme), but failed to integrate these earlier into a compelling windows phone project? Having great assets may be a necessary condition for success of this kind, but apparently not a sufficient one. My question is if Apple will be able to execute as well without Steve Jobs.
Apple is late to the game but they’re not competing directly with Microsoft or Sony. Both those companies would also like to control you TV experience through xbox and playstation respectively, but Apples product would be different in the sense that they make both hardware and software. That will kee them out of the commodity market much like with their computers. And also, much like with their computers, they don’t have to sell high volumes to make lots of money.
The big problem, as others have said, is getting content rights to stick it the cable/satellite companies and give consumers a more convenient and easier to use interface to get their TV content. Otherwise the new Apple iTV idea is just another expensive TV brand and not a “must have” game breaker. Personally, I’d buy a $2000 TV with voice recognition AND a combined service so I can ditch my cable subscription. Otherwise paying double for a fancy TV, even with Voice Recognition instead of remotes, isn’t worth the expense.
My problem with all the content over the internet sites is that I have grown attached to the control I get with my PVR. I never watch commercials. If I use Hulu, I do not have that control.
I’m with you regarding the commercials. I can avoid them with VCRs as long as I can live with a small screen and standard def. The problem with digital PVRs is the content is stuck in the recording device. So I would need a DVR with the ability to communicate 2-way with my cable provider, to decode the digital channels (all of which are scrambled by Time Warner Cable), and to record at least 3 shows simultaneously while I play back a 4th). I suppose I could do that with a kluge of boxes at each TV location (DVRs with cable cards plus Switched Digital Video boxes or just cable boxes) plus the box/card rental fees in addition to the content fees. Unfortunately, I don’t see Apple or anyone else trying to make it easy for people to skip commercials. Even if someone like Jobs managed to get agreemement on a “skip commercial” fee, it would diminish the audience for commercials, so it would wind up forcing everyone into the equivalent of paying for blu-ray disks of everything, only delivered digitally.
Siri – Record this weeks episode of Hawaii-5-0 tonight and edit out the commercials. Remind me to watch it tomorrow night.
I wonder if Seri would be smart enough to realize that it would be delayed about 25 minutes due to a delay caused by a football game earlier in the evening.
Let’s be clear, Jim: the Apple TV will tell you what you can and can’t do, not the other way around.
I remember reading an article (by Cringely?) talking about how the publishing and music industries painted themselves into a corner by becoming nothing more than the method of delivery. (e.g. How cheaply can a book be made and still be identifiable as a book?) Hasn’t television done the same by going to reality shows to save money?
Apple, Google and Microsoft could easly spend the money and replace ABC, CBS and NBC as the big three networks of the internet.
Very astute hypothesis, Tim. First the premium cable channels were doing this, then the lessor cable channels started – some with very good results. YouTube has begun the process. With the money these three have you could be on to something. It’s been said, Apple dosen’t do content, but they have a heck a lot on iTunes and not all that was negotiated with big labels.
Combining all of these ideas: Your iOS device is your remote. For those that don’t have an iOS device, they can get a special purpose remote that can interact with Siri.You can use Siri (speaking into the device rather than shouting across the room) or just use the device as a common remote. Your device connects via Air Play (built into the TV). Since most of us get our Internet and TV content via a “cable” provider, iOS selects TV content or Internet (Netflix, Vudu, YouTube, etc.) as directed since they come in on the same signal. Apple partners with the ISP/Cable provider, charging some amount between the cost of internet only and internet plus TV. Apple collects all search revenue since this is an added service. Apple serves up supplemental content (music, movies, purchased shows) via iTunes. This way Apple doesn’t have to work around the cable companies, which is too tall an order for this generation of device.
The cable companies consider any device, other than the display, as a “workaround”. “Tru-2-way” cable cards have supposedly been under development for decades…the keyword being “under”. That’s the only way to make cable TV more capable and flexible as that would allow true competition in the cable box market. It could even eliminate the boxes themselves by enabling TV manufactururers to build it all in the TV.
Typo in tags: hone theatre
I’m starting to think Apple’s biggest competitor is Amazon. Apple revolutionized music, Amazon has revolutionized a much bigger consumer market and they have the ecosystem that can go head to head with Apple. Apple was willing to make pennies on iTunes in order to sale the hardware at a premium price, Amazon is willing to give to subsidize the hardware in order to give you easy access to their whole world and make money on the products. Apple has a developer driven App store, Amazon has created the most popular ecommerce environment for products of any kind and has some very names taking advantage of it.
Kindle is clearly superior to Apple’s book offerings; Amazon’s music and video distribution is not as sexy as Apple’s, but it doesn’t require a proprietary iTune client either.
Maybe most important, Amazon still has Jeff Bezos whereas it remains to be seen how Apple does without Jobs. Bezos may not have Jobs aesthetic sensibilities, but he seems to be just as ruthless and brilliant about achieving a vision for his company. I would not be shocked if Amazon was bigger than Apple in 5 years.
The Kindle isn’t and will never be an iPad. There is more to the iOS ecosystem than Amazon can imitate and that difference is all of the difference Apple (or Amazon) needs. It can’t be bigger than Apple unless it can make computers and make them better.
The main face of the cards is young and trendy women. As long as you like the bag, as long as you worship trends.
Siri, although nothing original, is indeed a nice friendly technology, and probably easier than wrestling with remote control buttons (although really, how much of a hardship _is_ that?). It is especially well suited to tasks which have a limited vocabulary: Record x; play y at 8pm; A large but finite database of TV programs.
Where I think both Siri and Android’s attempts have gone awry is their reliance on an Internet connection. Processing of the stream should be local, and should not have to rely on an Internet connection. Perhaps a one time setup and calibration, but for reasons of convenience, bandwidth and privacy, local processing please.
“but for reasons of convenience, bandwidth and privacy, local processing please”. I agree with you 100%. But the trend has been moving away from local. Windows 98 had a very useful built-in feature called “Winpopup” that allowed comminication over the local network even when the internet was down. Ever since then, you would have to install a paid-per-user 3rd party program, which may not even work as reliably.
The problem with your hypothesis regarding a ‘localized’ Siri (speech to text and back again – with hooks for doing various things) is that the technology to do decode speech (and learn while it’s doing it – because to be most effective, like any AI, it has to learn through feedback) requires many racks of machines in a data center.
You nor I have the greenbacks to do that ‘locally’ given current technology (for instance, one 32 cpu system with 250 GB ram, FIOS connections and the like will run you upwards of $20,000 – and that system would be what I would call ‘entry level’ supporting a family of 4 – and I’m not sure that would be enough; the remote systems get the benefit of massive parallelization to crunch the inevitable beer slurred mumblings of the average Monday night football fan). Are you willing to pay the equivalent of a car payment to have this grafted onto your house?
Maybe in another 10 years when we all have 1000 core quantum computers in 1 square centimeter – then maybe this will be feasible at the local level.
Speech recognition has always been very limited. The user has to learn the computer’s quirky language, which is a real pain. I seriously doubt siri will catch on widely.
Apple won’t be able to keep up the magic without Steve. Five years from now they’ll be run by bean counters, like most tech firms. That means innovation slowly dies and turns into red tape. We will all look back and see apple peaked this year or next.
Machs Nix for me, since I still have a Scottish accent.
http://s.ytimg.com/yt/swfbin/watch_as3-vflqje1v-.swf
Or search utube for ‘Two Scots in an Elevator’
[…] lot of people are scratching their heads about what projects Steve Jobs left behind. Cringely offers the best guess I have yet seen. Apple TV that leverages Siri technology. […]
Interestingly, GoogleTV may be a more appropriate outlook. Through Android, you can get either a set top box, or a SmartTV with Android built-in.
So, while you mention that Apple may do both, Google has already done it. Now, Apple will have to have the AppleTV set top like they use to, plus offer some OEM the ability to build iOS directly into a TV. But then, how do they compete against Google/OHA with Android? Obviously cost will a consideration for that OEM, so Apple will have to either pay them or give iOS to them for free, which they don’t do; or become the OEM themselves and have a really high margin product that will have only a small market share.
Yes, AppleTV is certain, but like Mac vs. Windows, iOS will be a niche compared to Android – in TV, and mobile markets.
Whoever edits and publishes these arlitces really knows what they’re doing.
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[…]I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Apple gets Siri-ous about TV – Cringely on technology[…]…
My experience with Siri is that it does not do well with ambient noise; I have lots of trouble using Siri when my iPhone is connected via Bluetooth to my car stereo. I have to turn Bluetooth off to use Siri.
I can’t imagine trying to use Siri to control my TV in a household with kids.
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I think Tim Cook’s [and Apple’s] one post-Jobs hurrah will be the new media tablet [or TVPad or iPad 3, depending on your source] that will integrate with cloud and Apple TV this March. It will incorporate Siri, HDTV clarity, compatibility w/ Verizon, speeding things up w/ its cloud services.
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