There were already two computers in our kitchen but that wasn’t enough for Fallon, age three, who needs his daily fix of YouTube Scooby-Doo clips. So for Christmas Fallon (who refers to himself as “the small boy”) got a Dell Vostro A90 netbook running Ubuntu Linux. That’s the business version of a Dell Mini9 with a black case and Bluetooth installed. Fallon would probably have preferred the more colorful Mini9 but he got the Vostro, instead, because I was able to buy a new one from Dell for $199 with free shipping.
Heck of a deal.
Alas the little Dell, with its perfect tiny keyboard for Fallon’s perfect tiny fingers, wouldn’t charge correctly. The AC adapter would charge the battery to 100 percent then the Dell would forget the AC adapter was attached and discharge completely unless rebooted, starting the charging and discharging cycle all over again.
An hour on the phone with Dell Tech Support determined that the little Vostro had to go back for a motherboard replacement. Dell sent a box by FedEx and we returned the netbook for repair.
According to the arrival and departure log, which Dell kindly sent me by e-mail, Fallon’s Vostro was received, the motherboard replaced and the system reshipped in approximately 10 minutes. Wow!
Too bad they didn’t actually repair it.
When we got the netbook back it was worse. Now it wouldn’t charge at all.
Dell Tech Support said this time it must be a problem with the battery or the AC adapter, both of which had been in their shop a day earlier and gone untested. Rather than have me send back the Dell, they decided to send me a new battery and AC adapter, which didn’t help.
FedEx had come and gone again, I had Fallon’s little Dell now running on a fading battery, but I also had a second battery (only charged to 34 percent, sadly) and a useless AC adapter.
More time with Dell Tech Support determined we needed to send the Vostro back for another motherboard replacement, so they sent a second empty box to ship it back. That box arrived this afternoon along with a an unexpected second box from Dell containing yet another AC adapter and battery (giving me three of each) and a motherboard.
Was I now supposed to replace my own motherboard?
The Vostro and its two extra batteries and two extra AC adapters and the spare motherboard are again with FedEx on their way back to Houston, to be returned to Fallon sometime next week, hopefully repaired.
We’re up to three hours on the phone with Dell Tech Support four chat sessions, and nine FedEx shipments so far. If everything goes perfectly from here on out the total will be 10 FedEx shipments, but there could be more.
The Dell people have been uniformly helpful, friendly, courteous, and kind.
I just wonder what the profit picture is for Dell on these $199 systems?
No wonder Fallon looks tired.
I got a cheapie dual core Everex SA2053T for $600 a couple years ago and alas it worked perfectly out of the box, to this day. Naturally, they went broke.
And based on what I believe your time is worth, that $199 notebook has now cost you about $1000. You’d have been better off getting him a MacBook which would have been trouble free from the start.
That’s the thing Windows users don’t get about Apple. Sure they charge more. But the things they make just work. You don’t have to mess with them. And in the rare case something does go wrong, as long as you live within driving distance of an Apple store, you’ve got a good chance of standing in front of a real person and getting some help to solve the problem.
From my perspective, I happily pay more for a Mac or just about any other Apple product because my time is valuable and the quality of their products makes them the best value around.
Geoff: This has absolutely nothing with Mac vs. Windows (vs. Ubuntu, which is what this netbook was running). This is a hardware issue, and the same argument you just made works just as well for any other higher-priced piece of hardware. Apple’s hardware may (or may not) “just work”, but so would any other high-quality expensive piece of hardware from other companies known to be reliable. Apple is not the only one on the entire planet.
The lesson here is not ‘don’t get anything that isn’t made by Apple’; it’s ‘don’t expect a $199 netbook from Dell to “just work”’.
David,
I think what Geoff’s really referring to, is the fact you can take your laptop in to a real person, and get it fixed on the spot. Correctly. The first time, not potentially on the 9th shipment. And dealing with Apple’s support generally doesn’t take 9 shipments either.
Even I spent serious time considering what computers to buy the family members this christmas, as I don’t have time to be their in-house tech support this coming year. They all got macs.
Apple’s happy, my wallet is not.
Um, have you actually been to a “Genius” Bar? I used to be the IT Manager for a publishing company and find Apple’s hardware to be just as flawed or just as good as anyone else. They’ve just managed to create a far better illusion of this not being the case.
I read something similar about Nissan or Toyota a few years ago… that they spend a lot of money managing reliability and recall issues so that they aren’t apparent to the buying public.
As a long time IT director, I’ve used ALL types of hardware/software since ’79 which most IT directors can’t say. At one location I dropped the budget cap in order to purchase 5 so called “great” Apple Macs for demos that our sales department swore up and down needed Macs to run. Well, never in the 3 years I had those pieces of crap did I have all 5 working at the same time… every thing imaginable went wrong with them and the fact I had to go to Apple every time for them to attempt a fix was maddening. I actually held 3 commercial quality display monitors that were supposed to be loaned to Apple hostage until their tech team came down and got at least one of the anchors running for the graphics show.
Bottom line, Apple is about the hype, not quality…. I found it was easier for me to just order the components and build my own systems and maintain them myself, work and home, rather than deal with ANY of the major manufacturers out there.
It’s a shame Fallon hasn’t had a chance to use the Ubuntu system yet, my contention is that Windows users will never know how good hardware can actually be… I’ve got an OS/2 server that’s now entering it’s 8th year of uninterrupted uptime, and it still does things Microsoft can’t… but Linux is close.
Hang in there Fallon, home built laptops can’t be that far away….
Apple is based on their own financially backed, managed, and carefully scrutinized linux(minix or smily linux 92-2001,2) with the utmost professional support crews. This is simply Dell’s fault.
I use Ubuntu 9.10(purposefully broken-I call it Ubuntu: Broken Linux) which was sold to Google to be based for The Chrome Operating System.
Google says it will be released Late during 2010, I will bet that the Netbooks and The Chrome OS(only to be used via netbook purchase) will be released alot earlier than that!
Rest assured, my friend, Apple doesn’t have some secret plant in China pumping out flawless systems…
David hit it. This is why Apple doesn’t make $199 netbooks and most likely never will. It will cost them more to maintain low-cost hardware and it does nothing to help their brand image of making quality machines. The same reason Maybach will never make a $50,000 automobile.
Of course it is a Mac vs PC issue, insofar as the realities of the PC market mean that every box is built of the absolute cheapest components available on the planet. As others have pointed out, the reason Apple doesn’t produce bargain-price PCs is not simply that they want to preserve their profit margin, it’s that they don’t believe they can create the experience their customers are paying for at that price point.
Look, this low-end price competition is great for everyone, even Apple users. Ongoing attempts to lower prices mean cheaper PCs for everyone.
But it is simply ridiculous to claim that the pressures on Apple, and the consequences for the machines they ship, are identical to those for Dell.
I’d actually consider this a Support failure. Computers fail, but there is *no* excuse for a repair/replaced unit to be sent to a customer untested, and in a verified working condition.
Absolutely! The issue is that Dell simply did not repair the netbook the first time or the second etc. If Dell had spent two days with the computer, fixed it, tested it and then returned it, this would be a non issue. In fact Cringely may have written an article saying that while the product is iffy, the tech support is great.
Also Macs don’t just work! Thats a nice marketing myth. I had a next office colleague who like Macs and I a Linux and Windows user was his first line of tech support.
emk
Desperately NOT wanting to inflame the whole Windows/Mac thing, but we support several thousand computers of which approximately 1/3 are Apple. We see slightly higher failures/computer for apple equipment, and significantly higher failures/computer/yr of age for Apple kit (it tends to be newer).
But then, lies, damn lies and statistics eh?
Man I wish that was true for my experience. Dell has been exceptional (minus a loud and rather hot running fan), but the build quality of my Mac has been superior. Just flip the case and look at all the heat vents on my Dell and Toshiba explains that. I can’t put my XPS in my lap, its just too damn hot. Leave it on a soft surface like a chair and it overheats instantly.
Whats worse is that unlike the Apple store, I can’t take my Toshiba directly to them, instead they parse out their warranty service through a third party called ServiceNET.
3 motherboards 2 hard drives and an 3 AC adapters and a fire (yes, real flames not from the battery but a defective AC adapter short).
Let me also mention that this “Qosmio” laptop was kept in a cold room on a metal and glass desk? Thats minimal dust, and virtual no wear -its the only thing that contained the fire.
Now on my Mac there isn’t a vent to be seen much less a few screws on the case, so I have a tendency believe that just the time it takes to unscrew the 100 screws or so on my Toshiba, pretty much made up for the extra cost had I bought a mac from the get go. But thats just my experience. If I have to get a PC I’d stick with Dell (also with all those loose screws and vents), avoid Toshiba (like the plague). But more realistically there is a new uni-body mac book with my name on it next year.
My boyfriend bought a $4,200 Mac Pro tower. He needed a replacement part for it (which was under warranty) and Apple forced him to put it in his car, drive to the nearest Apple store (~20 minutes away…could be far worse for people who live in rural areas) and then wait for a “Genius” to fix it. Then put the thing back in the car (it’s HUGE) and drive it back home and hope it works.
Personally, I like the whole “come to your house” or “deliver to your door” thing. Which is one reason why, when boyfriend’s old laptop died, he bought a new…Thinkpad. With extended warranty so awesome that if you spill water on it and it dies, they’ll send you a new one.
Put that in your Mac pipe and smoke it. 😉
-Erica
Yes, Apple actually fixes the hardware. “Forces” is a funny word in this context, I would say requires you to bring it in.
In any case Dell sent “Roger the Dodger” to fix my Mum’s Dell. Lovely house visit, but Roger was incompetent.
Point to Apple
Except that with all due respect, Apple’s hardware is made by exactly the same companies in the Far East.
What, did you think Apple made their own hardware?
If you think Apple has better reliability then you are suffering from delusion, possibly caused by excessive gilded chains. Vis. your valuation of freedom is in error and it would do you long term credit to look into it.
Same hardware? When will DELL or HP or whomever come out with laptop with a decent processor and graphic card without so many damn screws, vents, etc?
Have you been to a Frys or Best Buy lately? Flip over any ‘performance’ WinTel laptop and you’ll see what a mess of screws and vents, fans, and heatsinks.
You see all those external fans and laptop coolers, and gizmos and gadgets to keep your WinTel PC from overheating and freezing? -they’re not for Apples they are there to supplement the other fans, vents and heatsinks already on PC laptops made from the ‘same company’ in the far east.
Its the manufactor I’m concerned about… its the blueprint. Those coolers aren’t needed on the mac design with the same specs as the pc.
It should read, “Its NOT the manufacturer I’m concerned about, its the blueprint.”
While Apple and Dell et al might use the same factories to assemble machines they don’t use the same designs nor do they use the same components.
Each company (Dell, Apple, etc) may source their own components, although they might leave that to the assembler as well, and sets the standards for the assemblers like Quanta to adhere to.
Because a Dell and an Apple may run off two lines side by side in the same assemblers factory is more coincidence and has nothing to do with the quality of the machine ultimately produced.
How has it cost HIM anything? Dell provides teh shipping boxes and shipping labels for the shipments. So it has only cost him what he originally spent. It might have cost Dell $1000 by now, but not Bob Cringely.
Time = Money. Lots of time on the phone, chatting, packing/unpacking, etc.
Yeah, but then I write a column about it and I’m in the black again.
I had a slightly similar problem with a Dell laptop I purchased a few years ago. It seemed like their contracted repair company had no interest in actually repairing my laptop but rather wanted to keep not having it work (i.e., they keep making money with additional service calls, shipping parts that didn’t need to be replaced, etc.). I finally got a brand new replacement. And decided to never purchase a computer from Dell again.
I build my own. They cost more than the average PC and about what an Apple would cost, but I know what’s in it and I can upgrade any time I want without buying a whole new machine. And I can use the best and quietest parts that I can afford. When did computers stop being multi-purpose machines and become consumer products?
You built your own laptops? Color me impressed!
A possibly better solution would have been to get an iPod touch.
Great for the little fingers, and the iTunes store has all the Scooby Doo he could want.
I was recently looking at resellerratings.com to check out some bargain-basement vendors. To my surprise, Dell has one of the lowest ratings on the site. On comparison engine shopping.com, Dell’s rating isn’t quite that bad, but it’s still not great.
A decade ago, which was the last time I bought any serious amount of Windows hardware, they were fine. Have they gone that far downhill?
The sensible thing to do would have been to order a new one and return the old one for refund, to avoid the tech-support trained-monkey circus.
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
[…] I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon's Getting a Dell! – Cringely … Categories: Computers Tags: christmas, Computers, daily, fallon, kitchen, licensed-windows, […]
In the same situation, Apple probably would have just replaced the machine with a new one, rather than forcing the owner to endure another repair attempt.
It has nothing to do with defect rates or statistics; high end products usually get higher end service. Things do go wrong at both the Ritz-Carlton and the Hyatt, but the staff at the former is likely to make a greater effort to fix the problem.
You don’t even have to set foot in an Apple store with the insufferable crowds and hipster employees, though it might be more convenient than shipping back and forth to the repair depot.
No, they probably would not have. My first Mac was a G3 iBook I had BTO for about $1600. It was brand new DOA with a logic board failure. Apple replaced the logic board with no questions asked, but when pressed they would not swap the machine for a new one.
My PC at work is Linux (Fedora Distro), and our servers are all RedHat. However, I wouldn’t bother using Linux as a multimedia desktop machine. As much as I hate to say it, Linux is just not ready for desktop multimedia.
About a year ago, we bought a cheap Dell desktop and a large 32″ monitor to use as our TV. Not wanting to use Vista, we used Linux — First the Mythbuntu edition, then Ubuntu itself when we had problems with Mythbuntu. We were originally using Boxee, but decided it was simply easier to find what we want using FireFox. We also used MythTV, but when we had problems getting that to work, we switched to Kaffeine.
We had all sorts of problems with Linux, Flash, and full screen display. We also had problems with getting our TV tuner to work with Linux. When Windows 7 came out, we got an upgrade (our machine originally had Vista on it), and are fairly satisfied with it. Windows 7 is certainly a great improvement over Vista, but it is frustrating for a power user use to Windows XP to handle.
Even at work, I can’t get Flash to work. I had installed the 64 bit distro of Fedora. That’s fast and furious with my work, but Flash isn’t 64 bit native. I could try installing all the 32bit libraries, but I simply end up using my Mac notebook.
Windows 7 runs pretty good (I still prefer Mac OS X), and the Windows Media Center is okay. However, the big advantage of Windows is that you can use Netflix on it. We have the $8 Netflix account. Yes, we only get one DVD at a time, but about 90% of what we watch is streamed. In fact, I had a hard time trying to fill up my queue with movies that I couldn’t stream.
Unfortunately, this is another case of ‘you get what you paid for’. In the ever shrinking margins of the PC world, something has got to give. That give is generally the talent of support and repair folks (along with how far stretched they are) and design/build quality.
Dell, HP, et al brought it on themselves (ok, MSFT had a small part of it too). After XP was released, hardware continued to get faster and cheaper but no one felt the need to buy. (Remember the class of hardware XP was designed to run on!) Nothing in the Windows OS space required hardware upgrades. People were happy to keep what they owned. PC vendors got into this price war to stimulate buyers. Now they’ve set a price expectation for the public. For the longest time, no one had to spend a lot of money for a PC. Now, no one is willing to. Remember, people hang onto 10 year old machines, running a 10 year old OS because they see no reason to upgrade. WinXP on a 2.4GHz Pentium IV with 1GB RAM still runs fine for the job it was intended to do (Symantec AV bloat non-withstanding).
People talk about how PC manufacturers are struggling while Mac sales are strong. More expensive computers with larger margins. In this economy, no less! Is it that Apple makes that much of a superior product? One could debate that bit all night and into the New Year. What Apple has done is created a better experience and value for the people who use their products. Is that perceived and/or real? It doesn’t matter which. It keeps people coming back and it is gaining more people into the fold. Apple has spent a lot of money on their support group. They know that OSX is generally an unfamiliar interface to the bullk of the population who think that computers only run Windows. Apple knows it has to try harder to win/retain their customer base. It is something the Linux community should take heed of instead of bickering ‘my distro is better than your distro’. IMNSHO, Linux blew an incredible opportunity for people to switch when Vista came out. But that is a whole other rant.
Apple’s success in this area has caused PC vendors to try and move their brands back upscale. Dell created the Adamo line for this purpose. Will it succeed? Time will tell. The biggest problem they face is the perceived value of Windows based PCs. Dell will have to focus their efforts on support and computing experience areas in order to show people it is worth buying a more expensive PC.
Back to netbooks. Their margins are even more constrained than regular PCs. All PC vendors must have an offering in that space nowadays whether they want to or not (Acer really kicked their butts for a while). PC vendors like HP and Dell might even be taking a loss on netbooks. Again, just to be in that space. Should it be a trend that stays for a while, they can make up for lost profits later due to efficiencies in cost and manufacturing and mass adoption. Because of this, netbooks have truly become throwaway machines. It is because it costs too much money to properly diagnose and quite frankly, it costs too much money to care. I’m not saying that you are regarded as a second class citizen because you bought a netbook. I’m saying that some beancounter somewhere has determined that support costs are at a certain level for such a machine. That is why Cringe is experiencing “Let’s throw this part at it and see if it fixes the problem.” The parts are cheaper than the support of it. Sadly, you get a lot of guessing games in the process.
You can guarantee that an Adamo owner would not have the same experience. Sure, the hardware could fail right out of the box as well but how it gets handled would have been A LOT different.
I learned a long time ago not to buy anything from Dell.
Just return the damn thing for a refund while you still can.
Agree about the Dell’s cheapness. But here’s the best option of all for a 3-year-old: Give him a book. Or toys. He’ll be looking at a computer screen his whole life so why start this early. (Yes, I have two kids Fallon’s age and no, I’m not Amish.) Seriously….
Looks like Bob isn’t the only one having problems with Dell. There is a report in The Register that defines Dell as “The Grinch that stole Christmas 2009”
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/31/dell_delays_holiday_card/
My Mum had a Dell that didn’t work with Windows for the better part of 2 years.
Gentlefolks: Life is too short to do Windows (any flavor)
Apple produces a superior product and experience: is your time and energy really worth so little that you want to squander it on inferior hardware+software?
Frankly, what the first Geoff wrote above could have come straight out of this Geoff’s mouth, as any of my friends can attest.
I am very proud to say I have neither owned nor used a Windows machine for any real purpose in my ENTIRE life – and I am 51 with 38 years of computing background.
Hooray for me!!! (I do smell sweeter…)
I’ve had a MacBook Pro for little over two years now. Before that I had a Dell Latitude laptop. Is the Mac better? Yes. Is it insanely great? No. In the 3 years I had the Dell, the screen, harddrive and motherboard got replaced. So far the MacBook has had a new DVD drive, new keyboard and maybe (it’s in repair right now), a new motherboard.
I am seriously considering a lightweight ‘netbook’ type machine when I change next time. If it breaks – oh well, cheap to buy a new one. I travel a lot so a smaller and lighter machine would be welcome.
The PC has become a commodity item, almost like a cellphone.
I do my ‘serious’ computing on a ‘home built’ PC running Win 7. No fan of MS but I must admit they’ve got it pretty much right with this one.
So you got bit by the “total cost of ownership (TCO)” bug: cheap to buy, expensive to own. Next time search out quality.
I’m actually more interested in your take on Ubuntu. I’ve been happily using it for years but I’m always interested in hearing an ‘outsiders’ opinion on it.
These Apple fan boys crack me up. Dell, PC’s in general and Windows are all EVIL because they have too many problems, see, this hardware failure is PROOF! Unfortunately, it’s a straw man argument. Apple’s products are good, and their quality and customer service are good, perhaps superior. However, if you had a similar problem with an Apple problem and took it back to the Genius Bar, more than likely they would just swap it out with another unit, they wouldn’t actually try and repair it, they’re not trained for that. That’s what Dell should have done.
Apple is all fat and happy shipping their 5 million units or whatever, while Dell, HP, Acer, Lenovo, etc., etc., etc. are busy shipping 50 million. If Apple has 1% or so defect rate they may have 50,000 problem products while the others have 500,000 (or more). They may not be better quality, they may not have the greatest customer service, and they may not have space age-looking hip stores, but Dell, Microsoft and Co. aren’t the AntiChrist, either. Get over it. Get a Life.
Dell, just like Apple, outsources most of its actual manufacturing to companies overseas. Perhaps they aren’t paying enough attention to quality control. I’ve used a succession of Dell and IBM/Lenovo laptops over the last 4 years and had less problem with the Dells. But hell, a $199 netbook is a great deal and I’d pick one up. If I had a problem, I’d complain long and loudly until it was fixed or replaced to my satisfaction, and Cringe has his bully pulpit right here. I wonder how long it will take for Michael Dell to go tell someone to send Fallon an upgraded unit at no additional cost and by the way, do it now?
When Steve Jobs can ship a $199 netbook to compete, or even a $299 netbook, I’ll take a close look at it. I respect Apple and their products, but other than iPods, I’ve never owned any. Do you pay more and get more? Arguably. You get a tightly controlled ecosystem that inherently has less problems than the open system, either Windows or Linux. Electronics these days are extremely complex, and sometimes they just don’t work right. It doesn’t matter what the label on the outside says. One gap in a microscopic solder via and your charging system doesn’t work right. QC charged the battery and allowed the unit to ship. Maybe Apple’s QC would have performed a more stringent check, maybe not.
Parroting the ‘Buy Apple’ mantra just displays your ignorance.
Don’t know how much traveling Fallon does but for general home use I think I would have just doubled my investment and gotten him a middle of the road laptop. While my youngest grandchild just became a teenager, all four of them have been using inexpensive laptops for years and have hauled them from coast to coast without complaint.
On the OS wars: I was a Mac only user until about ’97 when I switched to GNU/Linux because everything about it just seemed ‘right’ to me. I never minded having to edit the kernel just to get sound and printing, if it supported my hardware at the time, and considered that part of the fun of computing. I’ve administered Win, Mac and Linux boxes and all three have their foibles and problems but the Linux boxes I could usually ‘fix’ myself. I never recommended Linux to anyone but the geekiest of family and friends until Ubuntu came along but the majority of folks just don’t care what’s under the hood.
Fallon adapted quickly to Ubuntu. Most of what he does is browser-based, anyway. If he absolutely needs Flash he can reboot from a second SSD partition and use the Dell as a Hackintosh, which gets him to Netflix, too. Netflix requires Silverlight, which isn’t on Linux.
I’ve read that ‘Moonlight’ is getting close to Netflix ‘Watch Now’ capability and that Miguel de Icaza is waiting for some sort of crap DRM deal between Microsoft and Novell at which point Linux purists heads will explode.
BTW, I have a confession to make. For the first time ever, I have tainted a Linux kernel by installing a proprietary ATI graphics driver. I payed for the Radeon card in my Toshiba laptop and I felt I had a right to the free binary driver provided by ATI/AMD. If he came over, I’d probably let RMS talk me out of using it as it really doesn’t add that much over the free/open driver. For me, the guilt is real.
I have always found that tech support is polite, kind, trying to help, etc.
However, they have _never_, _ever_ solved my problem.
This is all too common these days. Last summer we had a Samsung upscale cell phone act up. Our cell phone carrier decided the best course of action was to replace it outright with a refurbished model of the same phone. Okay fine. Last night, about 5 months later that phone stopped working. Our cell phone carrier tells us we only get a 3 month warranty on replacement phones. Fortunately I saved several of our old phones. My kid is now running on one of our old phones. He just turned 18 and it didn’t take our cell phone firm to figure out he was a kid and could be pushed around. On Monday I start negotiating a better solution with our cell phone provider.
My wife’s camera stopped working a few months ago. We bought it from BestBuy with their extra warranty. They decided to “fix” the phone, except they didn’t. When we took the phone back they told us there was only a 1 month warranty on repairs, starting from the time the camera left their shop.
Our worst experience was a Microsoft Xbox 360. Our kids bought a “refurbished” unit a year or so later I suffered the dreaded 2 or 3 red light problem. The problem was so common and so bad, Microsoft extended the product warranty and offered to replace units with this problem. Because our Xbox had been fixed once, they wouldn’t honor the warranty. But the unit was fixed by a Microsoft certified repair center???? Didn’t matter. When the unit first failed Microsoft offered to replace the unit, no question. When they received the unit, checked the serial number, and found a record of it being serviced — they shipped the broken unit back.
I have this fear the quality of consumer electronics is getting really bad. While I wouldn’t mind replacing a $10-20 clock radio, I do expect my $250 camera or cell phone to last through a normal service life. My Canon AE-1 is still working great after 35 years. Why can’t my digital camera last 2 years?
Now lets look at “the small boys” laptop. If the unit cost $200. It probably cost Dell $125-150 to make them. A new unit breaks and the customer calls. When one calls customer service, it probably costs the company $25 to $50 an hour. So the more time one calls and the longer the calls the faster the money stacks up. Okay Dell decided to have the netbook shipped to their service center. How much does it cost them to receive and process a unit. More money stacks up. At what point would it have been cheaper for Dell to ship a complete replacement unit? Wouldn’t it be a good idea for Dell’s service center to fully check their products before returning them to the customer? How much did it cost them when they shipped a defective unit?
The problem is almost EVERYONE is doing this.
The cheapest solution for Dell (and every one else who operates in the same manner) and the best solution for Fallon is to ship a new unit and request the old unit to be shipped back in the same box. Dell could have diagnosed the faulty unit at length to determine the issue causing the problem and take corrective action to increase profitability.
I find it insane that some companies stop thinking when a customer experiences a hardware problem with new products and just follow their established customer service policies. It kills the experience and definitely does no good to customer loyalty. The fact that the product has a low margin is not relevant. The only thing the supplier needs to do is to check if the replacement unit isn’t experiencing the same problem.
Always act what is best for the client. Take a look at Apple (and some others) and see the effect.
The real problem is that consumers, in the large, do not care that the products they buy are junk, and in fact are willing to play the I-need-a-new-one-anyhow game. If consumers would exercise some self-discipline and just go without crummy products, manufacturers would change their ways.
It also probably says quite a bit about the overall success of the “green” movement: people will be green as long as it is convenient. As soon as inconvenience comes along, out goes the green attitude.
“A new unit breaks and the customer calls. When one calls customer service, it probably costs the company $25 to $50 an hour.”
support centers, fedex and so on are usually fixed costs, so having 1000 units coming back or 10 doesnt change anything.
Glad I follow your Twitter feed, Mr. C. The iTunes podcast subscription hasn’t been getting your last couple of audio columns.
Re: Dell netbooks. You get what you paid for. I’d love to see Dell’s quarterly profits on these netbooks side-by-side with the support costs. Anecdotally, they seem like more trouble than they’re worth. Were I to buy a Windows-only device, I certainly wouldn’t shop from the bottom of the price scale.
Re: Apple. You get what you paid for. My one Genius Bar appointment (for an in-warranty iPod touch battery problem) was addressed helpfully and efficiently. I generally bring Mac hardware repair stuff to a reseller in New York City called Tekserve. I haven’t had to do that very often in 19 years.
Re: Fanboys. Anybody who has a good personal story to tell about a company you’re predisposed to dislike is a fanboy. Enjoy your dogma and market share.
Apparently most commenters here missed the point and tried to accuse the manufacturer (Dell vs Apple) or the OS (wrongly, *hint* there is no Windows according to the post, but Ubuntu), while this is all about the cost of the warranty due to a failure of the manufacturer (or its subcontractor) to repair the first time, and/or to actually have better quality control. But that last one require numbers more than a single person experience, while the first one is just it.
Yes, too many shipments, too many back and forth. If the repair company had tested the repair, then it would have been over. They didn’t. One goes to wonder if they are not just paid by the repair (attempt) and let Dell deal with the bill. In any case it surely did cost more than $199.
Well what a customer to chose if you’re going to mess-up big-style! 😀 I hope Fallon hasn’t learned the angst-ridden disappointment thing yet 😉
More seriously no company should be bragging about it’s “carbon-footprint” policy with this level of back-and-forth shipping. Not saying Dell does. Just a hot-topic thought though.
No company seems immune. My new iMac was shipped directly from Shanghai to the UK! I was, bluntly, shocked! Didn’t believe it, but checked the carrier tracking. Yup. China, Korea, Dusseldorf, UK. In a couple of days. All because I chose to have an “old-fashioned” cabled and wide keyboard along with my spiffy new Magic mouse (which, incidentally *is* the bees knees!) Cripes, I felt guilty as a customer!
PC’s fair no better, usually being built from a lot of separately-shipped components from the Far East, perhaps assembled more locally, then shipped to the customer. These days most computers must cost the environment a lot (and no, I’m not a noisy foot-stamper)
It worries me now. Much more than it did before I upgraded my iMac. The previous one, with no modifications, came in 24-hours from relatively near by, geographically.
From a cost point of view, an environmental point of view, a sanity point of view, Dell should just have shipped a new box and taken the old one back PDQ.
Best of luck with this one, Bob!
Bob,
Why would you do this to your kid??
You want him to end up in therapy, talking about his (Dell) dad/!
Buy the kid a Macbook and be done with it……….
He sort of does. I partitioned the SSD and made the second partition a Hackintosh — one of the reasons for choosing the A90, which is very easy to Macify. That has nothing to do with the charging issue, however, which persists under either personality.
[…] Fallon’s Getting a Dell! Fallon would probably have preferred the more colorful Mini9 but he got the Vostro, instead, because I was able to buy a new one from Dell for $199 with free shipping. Heck of a deal. […]
I purchased an Acer Netbook, refurbished, from Tiger Direct. It came with Windows XP. It has worked perfectly. I use it mainly for travel, which I do a lot, it is light weight, whilst still providing basic computing capabilities (I added Office 2007) and giving me reliable network access either through WiFi or 3G. The only downside is the webcam. The Intel Atom processor, and maybe the 1 gig of RAM are not enough to run the built-in webcam in a satisfactory manner through Skype. I am about to try one of my Logitech cameras to see if it makes any difference. I wonder why you bought the poor kid Linux. My first netbook was also the first Asus out the door with Linux and it was nothing but trouble, including Asus not being set up to accept software updates.
Apple does make a $199 computer – it’s called an iPod touch. My girls 4 & 6 regularly appropriate my wife’s and mine to play and watch. Our portable DVD fir the car has broken (the 2nd time) and if the iPod was $99 I’d get two instead.
It’s amazing how loyal, often to a fault, Apple users are. I use a MacBook Pro every day of my life. I also use a Sony Vaio Z (with Blu-Ray) and Windows 7. My Mac is a fine device. My Sony is a fine device. Neither has given me a hint of trouble since purchase. My Sony will burn Blu-Ray; my Mac will not. I can work–as in do the work of my livelihood–on my Sony.
I can’t on my Mac without running a separate OS with boot camp. I doubt very seriously that I will ever switch to Mac exclusively. To limit myself to a single plaform would be foolish, and I’ll never be a fanboy for anyone.
Of course, all of this is beside the point. Since the iPod Touch, and presumably the iPhone which I don’t possess, are capable of video out, it would be relatively simple to provide a platform using this hardware even if it’s not in the same form-factor. Of course, this would diminish Apple’s cachet somewhat and largely cannibalize whatever demand there is for the Mini. I don’t know if they’re going to do this, but they could.
Still, if Apple wanted to provide a dirt-cheap platform, the pieces-parts are already in place with little or no additional development required. Drop a basic “office” suite (Google docs, anyone?) and you’ve got something with a built-in ecosystem of users.
Of course, the latest Jobsian surprise may be just this, but with a touch screen. We’ll see.
You had a bit of bad luck with the Dell, Bob, However, you needn’t the expense of a Mac for your kid’s tiny hands. A semi-disposable $199 netbook, provided it works out of the box, is a great purchase for the child. When the day arrives–and it will–that his sticky fingers spill apple juice into the netbook, you’re not out too terribly much cash.
Buy a Macbook, and you’re out the extra cash and in for more than you bargained for.
Gosh, the comments I have read responding to this article, scare me a bit.
Dell, HP, Acer, Apple, and Walmart have several characteristics in common :
They don’t design anything.
They don’t manufacture anything.
They purchase their products from the same companies, in the same countries, in the same part of the world.
The batteries, mainboards, LCD panels, and keyboards are all the same. They are high tech. The technology used in these items is beyond the reach of us in the United States. We can’t build them or fix them.
Who at Dell (or Walmart) could possibly determine if a sealed battery, or sealed power supply, is faulty or good?
Since this is Cringely.com , let me make a wild and unprovable assertion:
Every item that contains an LCD display (cell phone, ipod, notebook, monitor, television) costs five times more to manufacture (in Asia) than it costs us to purchase (in North America and Europe).
This wild estimate may be low by several times.
The manufacturing countries are engaged in a war of attrition amongst themselves. They are Command Economies, what we used to call the USSR.
How can a Notebook Computer that used to cost $1500 a couple years ago, now cost $500 ? Cheaper labor costs? There is no significant labor cost in high tech.
“They don’t design anything.” — I believe Apple does design their own hardware and software. It’s their entire premise.
“They purchase their products from the same companies, in the same countries, in the same part of the world.” — Same parts of the world yes, but very different OEMs and different design and build standards.
“The batteries, mainboards, LCD panels, and keyboards are all the same. They are high tech. The technology used in these items is beyond the reach of us in the United States. We can’t build them or fix them.” — Actually they are not very high tech, which is why you can get a factory in China to make them reasonably well. We don’t make them in the US because of labor costs.
“Who at Dell (or Walmart) could possibly determine if a sealed battery, or sealed power supply, is faulty or good?” Apparently an Apple person, because he is paid to do so, can see these things. A Dell or outsourced service person could surely spot a bad seal if he or she were trained, paid, and asked to do so. There’s no knowledge gap here.
“Every item that contains an LCD display (cell phone, ipod, notebook, monitor, television) costs five times more to manufacture (in Asia) than it costs us to purchase (in North America and Europe).” — In dollar terms, not at all. Not even Chinese factories will operate at a loss, much less Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese ones. If anyone is taking the loss it’s the Dells competing for share and there’s no way they could work at a 500% loss with shareholders poring over their books.
“The manufacturing countries are engaged in a war of attrition amongst themselves. They are Command Economies, what we used to call the USSR.” — No they’re not. The USSR was incompetent, as was pre-Teng China, but now China runs on market principles, albeit with added state protectionism and control. They don’t “command” output of steel and grain like they did in the Mao days. The Chinese model may be flawed for many reasons, but cash flow is not one of them.
“How can a Notebook Computer that used to cost $1500 a couple years ago, now cost $500 ? Cheaper labor costs? There is no significant labor cost in high tech.” — There is a lot of labor in assembly. And how can a VCR go from $1500 to $99 in ten years, and a DVD player do the same in five years? Improved technology, larger volume, cheaper manufacturing, competition. And Moore’s Law.
You should do some more reading.
i’m a little scared by the way things have gone down for you, i’ve not bought a prebuilt computer in over 10 years, and i tend to build 5 or so a month for family and friends(and their family and friends, and their family and friends…), and in about 5 years i’ve had 3 complaints, all three have been fixed for free by the store i buy parts from, the first was a broken hard drive, that was replaced right away, the second was a capacitor falling off the mobo, they didn’t have it in stock, so i got an upgrade free of charge, and the most recent was a broken dvd writer, after they confirmed it worked in their machine they sent me hope with a replacement ide cable, 5 dvd+rs of the brand that they tested it with and a dvd they had burnt in the store. after the drive failed to work at home again i returned it, and it was discovered that the problem was the drive simply didn’t work when set to cable select, i received a replacement right away after this was discovered(without any further questioning).
i find it disgusting that anyone would treat a product you’ve paid for with anything less than full attention to be horrible, i understand that the support i have always received at my local parts store is exceptional, but 9 deliveries/collections and no progress? it should have been fixed first time.
“I was able to buy a new one from Dell for $199 with free shipping. Heck of a deal.”
Um…yeah…Looks like a great deal you got there. Yep.
What is a three-year-old doing with his own computer? What’s wrong with sharing?
I’m guessing you have no experience of having three sons, ages 7, 5, and 3. Sometimes you just give-in.
No mention of OLPC or Sugar? Don’t you want Fallon to learn?
Dell knows they have a problem with these. The most cost effective solution is to just send another unit when the purchaser experiences new in box failure. The old unit is returned after new unit is received and Dell can disect it for cause of failure. Bad publicity and poor customer experiences have plagued Dell and others continuously. Refusing to learn from past experiences and repeated poor performances of hardware, software, and service after the sale is just sad.
Sincerely,
John and Dagny Galt
Atlas Shrugged, Owners Manual For The Universe!(tm)
.
I actually think your problem may be in the software. I have an identical problem (charging fully, then refusing to acknowledge the AC adapter), in a Dell Inspiron 700m (five or six years old) running Fedora 12. It came on quite suddenly after a system update, then disappeared after another, and is now back.
Since Windows doesn’t do this, I’m pretty sure it’s somewhere in Linux, but I’ve no idea where. Hibernating (suspend to disk) fixes it, but is not much more convenient than rebooting.
Time to invest in FedEx. Seems like they made over $199 from Dell already.
Great article about the quality of macs. wait, how did apple come up? I guess you can’t escape blind zealots. They will be the first against the wall.
Bob, isn’t it amazing how easy it is to start a PC vs Apple war. Bet you didn’t think this would spiral out like this???
Happy New Year!
Bob, I’m sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. I had the same charging issues when I received my first Ubuntu Vostro A90. After much searching I came across others who claimed that Ubuntu did not charge the battery while in “airplane mode” (?). I’m not sure if that was my particular issue or not (I installed OS X and it now charges fine as a Hackintosh) but it may be worth looking into for your situation. Good luck!
That does not apply in this case. The A04 BIOS changed the airplane mode, but still didn’t make my A90 charge.
Why are computer geeks so willing to cheap-out on computers? Seriously.
It’s like they never grew up from their college days when they had to buy the bottom line of everything to get by.
Pay more. You’ll get more out of it and encounter less hassle.
How much should you spend for a child’s computer? Something that is likely to be left out in the rain one day…
I can just imagine when Windows opens up their different stores and people who have hardware problems take Fallon’s computer there. It would be tempting to actually see someone and blame this problem on the OS (although Fallon’s is GNU/Linux).
reality check: manufacturers dont want to give no support. i work in support, so i know 😉
to them is just a hassle, a cost to minimize, so they offshore, outsource and so on until it costs the least possible amount of money, being the quality of the support given of no importance at all. PC manufacturers support employees are usually useless, spares and faulty parts are often mixed up and reused. and the final goal is to keep that faulty piece of HW out and the money in. i had a buddy who was selling PC’s, when a customer brought one back because of some fault he was directly given a new one, and the faulty one put back on the shelf ready for the next sale…
this is the harsh reality of a commoditized market. do you bring back to the supermarket a yougurt that went bad before expiry date? i doubt it.
your USD199 laptop doesnt work? get the money back if you can, otherwise just throw it away, forget the USD199 and get another one of another brand. all the rest is a futile loss of time.
btw, my expensive, top of the line, company issued laptop also has problems with charging and battery. do you think i called their support? 😀 they day it gets too bad for real use, ill backup the data and then drop if from the 2nd floor and ask for a replacement. i got no time to deal with the incompetent kids who populate the IT support.
My personal experience with the charging system on Dell laptops is terrible. I know of five relatives and close friends with mid-range Dell laptops purchased in the last year or two. Of these five, four have encountered a problem where the laptop refused to charge the battery, requiring a motherboard replacement. Fortunately all but one of these was still under warranty, but an 80% failure rate is ridiculous.
[…] My mini 9 purchased new was issue free. Been reading I, Cringely though and a been hesitant…. I, Cringely Blog Archive Fallon’s Getting a Dell! – Cringely on technology mini 9n | 2GB RAM | 16GB STEC SDD | 16GB SDHC | BIOS A05 w/ USB Legacy ON | No Bluetooth | […]
Seriously? The first commenter solution is “you should have bought a Mac”.
You must be kidding. Nice discussion. See you later.
Bob any updates? Does Fallon have a netbook yet, or is he still having to bother the rest of the family for his daily computer fix? Don’t leave us hanging!!
Thank you for the excellent article. Best thing I read all day. Look forward to reading more from you in the future
[..] A little unrelated, but I rather liked this site post [..]
On Sale ASUS UL30A-X5 Thin and Light 13.3-Inch Black Laptop (12… – Computers at Electronics Sale…
: : URL: :…
It has to be really hard to provide any sort of level of support on a device that only costs $199 and make a profit.
Very interesting post.
thanks for posting, very useful
Nice introduce! I recently have new choice to order new laptop battery tools.I have new laptop and I would like laptop battery .
Hi, When I add a web-page to my Favorites in IE8, it is added at the end of the already established list. I can sort them by name*manually. But I’d like IE8 to do this automatically. Can this be done ? Thanks
Hi. I wanted to thank you for the awesome details you’ve posted on your website. I will surely come back to visit yet again and have subscribed for your RSS feed. Have a good day.
My English communication is not so great butprobably I realize every thing. Thank u so well for that amazing blog message. I jolly be glad reading it. I believe you might be a superb author. At this time added your website to my favorites and will come back once more to ur web website. Hold up that magic work. I home to see more soon.
Admirable weblog! I’ll almost certainly be referencing some of this data in my next speech. I would appreciate it should you visited my blog at
Hi. I wanted to thank you for the good facts you have posted on your site. I will definitelycome back to check it out once more and have subscribedto your RSS feed. Have a fantastic day.
Wonderful read. I observed your internet site from a google search, and was glad i did. The data has helped me immensely.
I got your page searching for atlas hardware.topic I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Fallon’s Getting a Dell! – Cringely on technology was interesting. Please Keep posting on atlas hardware.
Admirable website! I’ll most likely be referencing some of this info in my next speech. I would appreciate it if you visited my blog at
Hey ! Love your blog.
Chemical engineers design processes to ensure the most economical operation. This means that the entire producing chain needs to be planned and controlled for costs. A chemical guy can either simplify or complicate showcase reactions for an economic benefit. Utilizing a higher pressure or temperature makes several reactions easier; ammonia, for example, is easily produced from the component elements in a high-pressure reactor. Otherwise, reactions with a low yield can be recycled continuously, which would be complex, arduous work if done by hand in the laboratory. It is not unusual to build six step or even 12-step evaporators to reuse the vaporization energy for an economic advantage. In contrast, laboratory chemists evaporate samples in just one step. Wowwee BugBots
gotta say this blog is awesome
linkncntjuugdwrwhk, kathy van zeeland, IDrkCBMdTFHHXTQNTAtf. byadmojwxrwbbbheoz, the sak, NBICulsVYGgYbviPKlyP.
Proficient blog! I’ll probably be mentioning some of this info in my next paper.
I approve of the work you have accomplished here. Most of the cases you have given is something most can associate to. Perhaps this will help me in my work.
I am not in reality sure if greatest practices have emerged nearly stuff similar to that, except I am definite that your great work is obviously discovered. I was wondering if you offer any subscription near your RSS feeds since I would be extremely interested.
great thanks man…
good thanks o/
good thanks o/
good (article|information) thanks
It looks like you have gathered yourself quite the little following these days. I’m happy to see it!
Could not have come at a better time. Awesome posting.
Thanks so much for your downright post.this is the words that sustains me on track through out my day. I have been searching colse to for this site after being referred to them from a colleague and was thrilled when i was able to uncover it after searching for long time. Being a demanding blogger, i’m hopeful to glance addeds taking initivative and contributing to the community. Just wanted to comment to show my appreciation for your website as it is extremely provocative to do, and many writers do not obtain acknowledgment they deserve. I am confident i’ll be back and will transmit many of my friends.
This is some sweet blogging software. Which is it?
You are so funny!!! I have become obsessed with your site and I spend most of my time reading all your archives. And I made an account JUST to post comments. I wish I had found you sooner, and I wish you posted as much as you once did! You must be always busy now though because you’re so famous!!
This is the reason I keep coming back to this place. I can not believe how many entries I missed since I was here last!
I feel your annoyance. I never had any good luck with this kind of thing, either. So relieved to find out I am not by myself!
Just wanted to give you my insights on the amazing work you did. I honestly enjoyed glancing through your articles. I hope there will be more to come.
You are so funny!!! I have become obsessed with your site and I spend most of my time reading all your archives. And I made an account JUST to post comments.
good quality post thanks
I just found out that I most likely have pulsatile tinnitus. (thumping sensations in the ear that go along with heartbeat) most of it is linked to vascular abnormalities near the ear. I just want to know if this is something that I should have checked aby a doctor. Pulsatile Tinnitus
Your website is magnificent.
Wow! Thank you! I always needed to publish in my internet site a thing like that. Can I take part of your publish to my blog site?
Amazing website & writing skills. You my friend have TALENT!
cool web-site. Offered me a even better understanding of the particular marketplace. Regards friend
Nice for being visiting your blog once again, it has been months for me. good this post that i’ve been waited for so long. i want this post to complete my assignment in the college, and it has identical subject with your post. tkank you, wonderful share.
sex tube online Great Post. Really it will help lot of people. Thanks for the post.
I start visiting your site and i have to say that is done with knowledge. I adore it.
Hey Bob, you seriously need to add a captcha to stop all this spam coming through the comment box…
On another note…. Interested in buying a fake Rolex?
Fantastic info. I’ve bookmarked this internet site.
Cheers, it’s been bugging me that i are unable to find this out. Say thanks a ton again!
From all the sites I have been to covering this subject matter, I think you do that best at explaining it, so very well done my friend.
Thanks so much for your downright post.this is the words that sustains me on track through out my day. I have been searching colse to for this site after being referred to them from a colleague and was thrilled when i was able to uncover it after searching for long time. Being a demanding blogger, i’m hopeful to glance addeds taking initivative and contributing to the community. Just wanted to comment to show my appreciation for your website as it is extremely provocative to do, and many writers do not obtain acknowledgment they deserve. I am confident i’ll be back and will transmit many of my friends.
There is perceptibly a lot to identify about this. I believe you made various good points in features also…
When I add a web-page to my Favorites in IE8, it is added at the end of the already established list. I can sort them by name*manually. But I’d like IE8 to do this automatically
Wanna buy some cheap and good watches? then replica watches are your best choices, these cheap watches can save you a lot of money, to buy replica watches the best way is to buy watches online, you can find the best replica watches online, there are many fake watches for you to choose, such as replica rolex watches and replica rolex watch, and replica omega watches and replica omega watch and replica cartier watches and replica cartier watch.
We known that beats dr dre pro sale Online become more and more popular. We are a professional retailer of selling all kinds of beats dr dre studio headphones.
High Definition Wallpapers websites offer images in different categories which include celebrity, fine art, digital fine art, nature, animals and many more choices.High Res Wallpaper websites offer exclusive creations that have been created keeping in mind the use of images as wallpaper
Tonight I want to talk to you on a subject of deep concern to all adidas predator x and to many people in all parts of the world, the war in Vietnam. https://www.soccers-cleats.com/ PZZ
Really cool post, thanks for this useful stuff! Keep on posting.
Good job! useful for me!
Great website – I really like it!
Superb idea, great content.
Hello my friend! I wish to say that this article is awesome, nice written and include almost all vital infos. I’d like to see more posts like this .
Endo Motor is the supplementary instrument which can assist the dentists to shape more standard root-canal in the process of root-canal treatment based on the micro-electronic control technology. This instrument contributes to alleviate the dentist’s working intensity. lyj