Bill Joy used to say, “not all smart people work at Sun” (he was right). Max Levchin is making a killing in Web 2.0 by resuscitating Web 1.0 projects that were too ambitious for 1999 but — thanks primarily to Moore’s Law — are just right for 2009. Sometimes all it takes is a change of scene or season for something that was a failure the last time to be a big success today. And that’s why I’m predicting the eventual return of Teledesic or something just like it — some new form of Internet in the sky.
This is the first of probably three columns about what will be in coming months the huge story of how the Obama Administration reinvents the Internet. They are obliged by law to do so and are required, in fact, to submit a grand plan to Congress by February 16, 2010. This National Broadband Plan is intended to accomplish the very same goals as the Clinton-era National Information Infrastructure (remember Al Gore’s “information superhighway?”) only this time it might actually succeed, again thanks mainly to Moore’s Law.
I’ve written before about the last time we went through an exercise like this. It wasn’t pretty, with the big telephone companies essentially stealing $200+ billion in tax credits in exchange for, well, nothing. That’s why U.S. broadband, which used to be the best and cheapest in the world is only middle-of-the-pack today. The National Broadband Plan is supposed to fix that, though at a cost some are predicting (hoping?) will be more than $100 billion. This time the cable TV companies will be joining the telcos at that trough.
In the broadest of terms what the Obama Administration wants to do is to bring 100 megabit-per-second Internet service to every home and business in America. They will task ISPs to provide such a service in exchange for being allowed to continue operating as ISPs. In places where such services can be easily provided at reasonable cost with an acceptable level of profit, which is to say in urban and higher-density suburban areas, this will be no problem. Ramp-up fiber-to-the-home, fiber-to-the-curb, and DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem services and we’re there. The simple business expedient of putting local TV stations out of business and grabbing their advertising income will, alone, more than pay for the upgrade costs.
Where there’s a problem is providing this same level of Internet service (100 mbps) in all the more sparsely-populated parts of America. It is from those areas the telcos and cable companies will come, hat in hand, to ask the government to cover the difference between what they can charge and what it actually costs to provide the service.
Serving these non-urban areas is what I see driving a return to satellite projects like the ill-fated Teledesic.
For those who don’t remember it or have forgotten, Teledesic was one of a number of 1990s plans to use low-earth orbiting satellites to provide wireless Internet service almost everywhere on Earth. By being closer to the ground than geosynchronous communication satellites, the Teledesic network could support many more low-power users (analogous to having more cell towers) and support low-latency services like Voice over IP (VoIP) which won’t work on a geosynchronous satellite link. The original Teledesic plan called for 840 satellites, later reduced to 288 satellites that would be flying in somewhat higher orbits. Craig McCaw, Paul Allen, and Bill Gates were all involved in the project, which eventually died when the Internet bubble popped and it couldn’t be financed.
I know I am putting this all too simply, smartypants, but for the purposes of this column that is enough detail.
Teledesic died because it was too ambitious, too costly, and the people behind it made some fundamental mistakes, some involving rockets and the true cost of sending stuff into space, which I know something about. Remember my Moon shot? Well it is continuing and I’ve learned quite a bit about space economics along the way.
For Teledesic one key requirement was getting 840 or 288 satellites into orbit for a good price. Toward that end they standardized on a satellite design that could be launched by any space-faring nation which was supposed to put all those nations in competition, fighting for Teledesic’s business. To set an aggressive baseline price, Bill Gates personally flew to Russia to cut Teledesic’s launch deal himself.
The Russians saw Bill coming.
Gates was negotiating for use of former Soviet SS-18 intercontinental ballistic missiles to launch scads of Teledesic satellites at a time. Bill’s negotiating position was a tough one (or so he thought) paying no more than $7 million per launch.
Let’s pause for a moment to understand something about those SS-18 missiles. These were (and still are) the biggest ICBMs around, each capable of lofting 10 independently targetable H-bombs over the pole at the U.S.. SS-18s were launched from underground silos that were designed with a different philosophy than U.S. Minuteman silos: SS-18 silos are hardened to survive a U.S. nuclear attack and then make a second strike. This second strike capability made the SS-18s the scariest mothers around. Forget about mutually assured destruction (MAD), the SS-18s made possible mutually assured RE-destruction, killing any survivors of the first wave. In the eyes of U.S. generals and diplomats, those SS-18s simply had to go.
And they did go, or were at least intended to, as a major condition in the Strategic Arms Reduction Talks (START and START-2). In exchange for certain favors including chopping the wings off American B-52 bombers, the Russians agreed to destroy 100 SS-18s, taking 1000 warheads out of the game. There were a number of ways to accomplish this, but the cheapest by far was to launch the SS-18s into space. It’s easily verifiable, almost impossible to spoof, and might even accomplish some good, like providing the world with 100 mbps Internet service.
Back to that $7 million launch price negotiated by Bill Gates. For the Russians, launching SS-18s came with a negative price, since each launch eliminated the need to disassemble, destroy, and verify the destruction of a missile, the total cost of which could easily reach $1 million. So launching satellites, while it incurred certain costs for modifying the missiles to replace H-bombs as cargo, began with a price of negative $1 million. The cost of the missile, itself, was zero. And Bill Gates‘ $7 million would have been nearly all profit for the Russians.
The Russians could have launched the entire Teledesic network for free and still come out financially ahead.
Had Teledesic been able to cut the right deal with the Russians, their satellite constellations would have been launched almost for nothing and we might have satellite Internet service today.
Speaking of today, a decade later, technical and political realities have changed. Where Teledesic was a $9 billion gamble that didn’t pay off, there is right now $7.2 billion sitting in the FCC’s Universal Service Fund — money the telcos and cable companies are going to try to claim to provide National Broadband service to indian reservations and logging camps. To serve all of America’s 110 million housing units will cost a lot more than $7.2 billion, which is where those numbers approaching $100 billion came from. There’s going to be a financial food fight at the FCC to pay for rural broadband service.
But not if a Teledesic-like satellite system were revived. What would have cost $9 billion in 1996 would cost less today because digital technology always gets cheaper. Where the 1996 money was coming mainly from private capital markets, $7.2 billion could come from the FCC this afternoon. By embracing a bold satellite initiative using low-orbiting satellites with low latency the Obama Administration could sidestep dozens of local and regional boondoggles saving tens of billions, providing a solid service that would not only reach every remote part of the U.S., but the rest of the world, too.
Imagine the international political power that would come with having such a global network. Friendly nations could get cheap Internet, unfriendly nations would find it difficult to keep their citizens off the net. It could be a bully pulpit in space.
And I know a thing or two about pulpits.
Great article Bob as usual. I’m not sure all of the details fit but certainly worth looking at. And the possibilities…Radio America on steroids, and Jimmy Buffett’s Victoria Secrets Catalogue plan for world domination all rolled into one.
But wouldn’t the cellular companies view this like a dagger through their heart? And the ISP’s will pull out all the stops to lobby this into an early grave.
This is great to hear from you. I met you in New-york when I was working in this ambitious project called African Sky. Back then,one of my inspiration was indeed Teledesic. Like Teledesic,African Sky disappeared for luck of support and funding but I never give up in the project.Quite the contary.I become more involved than before although I have to re-write the project and adapt it in a bankable one.
To read your piece after those years is just encouraging,to say least. Bob! If you remember me,as I hope you do,I will welcome your advice today as I did then
Best,
Soifoine
Here’s what I don’t get.
Sure, launching 800 some odd satellites into space for 100 mps service sounds like a great idea.
But.
How long will it be before we need more than 100mps? As with every technological advance, not as long as we think.
They we have 800+ worthless pieces of junk floating around the planet doing jack. We’re basically moving consumerism from citizens to governments and the military, who overpay for everything and are even worse than citizens at cleaning up after themselves.
How is this a good thing for mankind? For that matter, how is this a good thing for anyone/anything other than the executives of the company that eventually pulls it off?
Deserves repeating “governments and the military, who overpay for everything”.
In regards to communications satellites, the bandwidth bottleneck isn’t in the hardware, it’s in the breadth of the radio spectrum allocated for use by the satellites. The transponders in each satellite can be designed to tune into a wide range of radio frequencies, and they can be programed remotely to properly handle various modulation schemes. Most importantly, each satellite can carry an almost arbitrary number of transponders, the only limiting factor is weight. So to expand the satellites’ capabilities, the operators simply tune the transponders to use broader radio bands and activate transponders that weren’t being used before. And once all the transponders have been activated (hopefully before) they will simply launch more satellites into orbit. Data rates can be expanded without replacing hardware.
Paul – I’m not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying because advancements will someday make this technology obsolete we should not invest in the technology in order to forestall advancement?
Do you realise just how much 100mbit it?
100mb will be enough for a very long time. The biggest bandwidth hog for the next few decades will be HD video. 100mb could stream 10 1080p videos into your home at a time. Or download a full movie in the time it takes to make the popcorn and go to the toilet.
It’s enough. Lets just build it.
Maybe for you… but I make immense amounts of popcorn resulting in substantial visits to the toilet. FYI.
> They we have 800+ worthless pieces of junk floating around the planet doing jack. We’re basically moving consumerism from citizens to governments and the military, who overpay for everything and are even worse than citizens at cleaning up after themselves.
Was launching every satellite ever a bad idea? If they’re in low earth orbit, then that means disposal is trivial – wait a few decades for the orbit to decay and shallow reentry will utterly destroy it, or put a very small rocket on the satellite and push it down early.
As long as they aren’t bigger than Skylab or filled with hundreds of pounds of hydrazine, reentry is the perfect disposal method.
I just LOVE your thinking, Bob!
Some would balk, but I think you’re gonna be proved right. Of course it’ll take a little longer than expected… 🙂
The biggest issue with satellite communications is latency, which is a fundamental limitation that can’t be resolved unless we some how can change the physics constants of this universe. The biggest issue for a fast web experience today is not bandwidth generally, but latency.
That’s an interesting and intriguing observation, Craig, though I’m not sure I understand the practical implications. Would you explain a little further why you think this?
Response times in games, voice traffic and remote control would be affected. So over a satellite network, you might be trying to kill a zombie that’s already eating you from the server’s point of view. Attempting to compensate for this at the server level doubles the latency penalty (round trip) and impacts all users, not just the ones on the satellite connection.
For remote control, delay in the feedback loop increases the instability of the control solution, and can lead to control failures. Kind of like a drunk driver with slow reaction time weaving across the median, then swerving all the way back onto the shoulder.
There’s a good article on latency vs. bandwidth here:
https://www.stuartcheshire.org/rants/Latency.html
That’s why Teledesic was a LEO (low-earth-orbit) satellite. Low hundreds of miles, not 23,000 miles.
LEO would reduce it some, but not enough. Most satellites are roughly LEO orbit – yet, they still all incur about 500-600 ms latency. Additionally you have several other satellite related issues that even LEO can’t resolve: (i) connection drops – something (a bird, a plane, a cloud) gets in the way of the signal and the signal degrades. Remember 500-600 ms latency is the BEST performance – it only gets worse after that. (ii) traffic manipulation – all satellite data traffic has error correction applied extensively, and TCP sessions are converted to UDP sessions; additionally if a packet fails to make it through, then the packet is for all intents and purposes FAKED (based on the forward error correction but faked nonetheless). For example, FTP has a very big problem with data corruption over sat-comm. (iii) sat comm traffic is regulated by channels, each channel is 64 kilobits per second in size; and you have to saturate one channel before you are allowed to have a second. Suffice it to say – Teledesic was doomed from the start; Sat comm SOUNDS good, but fails dramatically; and it will never solve the high-bandwidth, low-latency issues – it’s just a fundamental part of the system, and as earlier stated – we’d have to learn something entirely new, entirely different about physics in general to be able to over come the problems in satcom for such tasks – more likely than not, we’ll sooner achieve quantum communications technologies before satcom issues will be resolved.
The info at the Teledesic link Bob provided indicates the satellites would be at 700 kilometers. This works out to under 2.5ms (one way). Even with up down and back (ACK) we’re still under 10ms R/T. Adding 10ms to your existing connection hardly seems like a show stopper.
That’s exactly along the lines of what occurred to me when I read this. Any sort of orbital radio communications are very unlikely to beat the reliable vanishingly-low latency inherent to fiber optics… Let alone the fact that a few hundred satellites simply aren’t going to be able to provide broadband to hundreds of millions (or more) of people and businesses simultaneously — at least, no satellites anyone could presently imagine. Do you know of a technology simultaneously capable of receiving, routing, and transmitting that many signals at once, within the size and power constraints of a few hundred satellites, that would be cheaper to implement and better-performing than just stringing fiber to the hinterlands? Those LEO satellites would have to be regularly refueled to maintain orbit, too. All several hundred of them. We should throw a nuclear reactor in each of them, and go ahead and implement Ronald Reagan’s Star Wars program, while we’re at it. Wait — I know!!! We should just modify our submarine fleet and launch it into space. Free Internet for all, and damn the torpedoes!!
latency is not going to be 2/3 second with a low-orbit system as it is with high-orbit geosynchronous satellites. 186,000 miles per second is not just a good idea, it’s the law. 830/186000 = .00045 seconds up, .00045 seconds down, = .0009 seconds traversal time = .9 mS.
that’s less time than it takes for the internal switch in the satellites to cut a packet from port 0 to port n. insignificant compared to the maze of line, switch, router, and buffer delays between you and, say, microsoft.com. traceroute them, from where you are, it’s fractions of a percent of the present time.
that could work in the market. we just need another round of arms control talks to get some cheap lift capability 😉
Bob,
What about the Wimax possibilities? All we need are towers, Wimax relays on them, and reliable power sources to keep them going out in the rural areas. I am running on Wimax in Springfield, Illinois right now for almost 2 years with nearly no connection issues (Xandoo). Speeds range from 256 kilobit to 3 megabit locally (I am at 768 kilobit), and isn’t Sprint/Clearwire running in Boston as well? Seems to me the buildout for Wimax would be far less expensive than the satellites and far easier in terms of maintenance/upgrade costs as well.
Care to add this into the discussion in another column?
Judging from what you and Bob have said, Wi-Max is 100 times slower than the satellite system.
WiMax will likely easily out perform any sat-comm network. Event 803.11g out performs sat-comm; 803.11a performs similarly per latency, but still has better qualities – though both are far more distance limited. WiMax overcomes the distance and ups the bandwidth, so it’s likely the best winner. Don’t know what the latencies will be like, but it’s not hard to beat sat comm.
In other words, you are pointing out that Bob’s interposing of the Obama administration’s 100 mbps objective with a LEO satellite systmem is misleading since in your opinion LEO satellites are never going to be capable of doing that. Why not?
Just go back up and read about latency, an irreducible time-delay of data moving in a pipe. Read also the article (“It’s the latency, Stupid”), linked out of one of the comments, about latency. What the latency argumenters are saying is that regardless of the throughput it affords, a satellite pipe of any quality is still too slow in terms of latency to be an acceptable replacement for terrestrial broadband. And I agree.
Mobile broadband suffers the comparable built-in throughput-killing problem of multipath. Multipath is what will keep whatever broadband speed and latency you enjoy at home and at the office practically unduplicatable on an urban mobile platform. Digital TV has problems enough with both ends of the path standing still.
And yes, I have read all the stuff about latency but that is a separate issue from the speed objective for large file transfer. Latency is also important for small file interactive transfer which is why it’s LEO, not 23,000 miles away.
6th
Bob,
What about all the “700 mHz spectrum blocks” recently made available by the swith to DTV
from analog? Wouldn’t that be a bit more “down to earth” (pardon the pun) compared to
filling the sky with another 288 to 800 satellites?
On a side note, is that how Verizon managed to “flesh out” their 3G wireless network? They
did place the winning bit on the “C” block, then seemingly overnight they had more 3G coverage
than any competitor…Just curious.
Darn…can’t spell!
“swith” should be “switch”
“bit” should be “bid”
Seems like a good idea, but you’d have to have wired AND satellite.
840 satellites will not have the bandwidth (this is RF we’re talking here) to support more than a few thousand connections globally. That’s one of the problems that killed Iridium.
Cable broadband providers don’t seem to have any trouble serving dozens of internet subscribers in the space of a single cable channel. Why shouldn’t any one of a few hundred given transponders on any one of 800 given satellites be able to achieve the same feat?
My thought (like paul in kirkland) was the limited useful life of the satellites — and the ever-growing problem of orbital debris. But I confess I don’t know how many satellites per year get launched for other reasons and how this number compares.
Paul in kirkland is right, but only for a year and a half. Moore’s Law for computers says that you have to double the bandwidth of all 288 satellites every year forever, or until the law hits its limit. Moore’s law for networks says that the doubling time for network backbones is 9 months. That’s a lot of launches….
In theory, I like this, but: 1) Whenever Consumer Reports rates the high-speed internet services, the satellite services always get the worst ratings; 2) The last thing NASA needs is more junk is space to keep track of; and, 3) Why would anyone need 100 Mbps internet service?
@cloudsandskye current satellite broadband internet service uses geosynchronous satellites and those satellites are way out there. This causes nightmare levels of latency for many applications. If the LEO (low earth orbit) satellites do manage to provide 100 mbps internet service as promised, then they would not be space junk. The “answer” to your third question is the possibly apocryphal quote from Bill Gates: “Why would anyone need more than 640K of memory?”
While I agree with your first two points, point #3 kinda sounds like “who would ever need more than 10MB of disk space?” (IBM PC XT, 1983).
The idea of using low orbit non-geosynchronous satellites sounds good, but is there anything to back up the claim that they can deliver 100mbps per user? They have the advantage of line of sight communication (no buildings or hills blocking the signal) but they have some limitations:
– Even at low orbit they are a long distance from the receiving antenna and therefore cannot deliver much signal power to it.
– You cannot compensate for this large distance by using a directional receiving antenna (a dish) because the satellite is moving.
And as suggested in Andy Krouwel’s post, the more users there are, the more bandwidth and power required.
Sounds great, but Grand Pa McCain (god bless him) and his politics (read: beauraceacy) may throw a wrench in such a plan ever getting off the ground. I respect the man, his grandfather war stories -but it’s time we take away the keys to the car. Painful as it might be, these great ideas may never see the light of day. And we’re all on the side of the road at a farmers market without a roadside guardrail.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/26/rachel-maddow-boing-boing_n_333820.html
Have you checked the election results yet?
Does everyone who fails to accept Network Neutrality as the solution to all problems have to be lined up agains a wall and shot before you guys realize the ball has not only entered your side of the court but has bounced to a standstill and is waiting for you to pick it up and do something with it?
I happen to think the FCC is going to create a quagmire of paperwork for everyone that will eliminate small and medium sized businesses as players at all (to the extent that that hasn’t happened already). It will be Google, Verizon, Comcast and other filing conflicting briefs agains one another for years before any of them dare move on anything like this.
Congratulations. We are moving toward an economy where ONLY a big government entity can push something big like this forward, only unlike the NASA days there will be few if any large corporate entities to do all the actual work.
While the left salivates over finally making us look like a European socialist state the Europeans are going to wonder what they need to be doing after we are gone.
As a retired older person it’s almost amusing to watch, since I don’t have to live with (or pay for) the consequences. Good luck with this.
If I were you I’d take my eye off McCain (and Bush) and be looking for the ball.
“ONLY a big government”? More like “ONLY big corporations”. The ‘government’ you speak of (GrandPa included) is pandering to huge lobbyist and their pocket books.
Teledesic is merely another of John Galt’s engines that will never reach orbit. Even if it does, with a toll-road at every intersection (including your driveway and front door) will essentially kill its purpose.
Meanwhile “socialist” Europe and Asia will be enjoying the benefits of a very opportunistic and capitalist system of services on a network that ‘just works’.
Cutting 20,000 miles or more off the distance to the satellite would reduce the latency, perhaps enough. Still like your earlier idea for wimax out of Wal – Mart, there’s enough of them for pretty good coverage.
The FCC cannot even define what Broadband is without the big carriers permission. Are you serious about 100Mbps to each home. The FCC if I recall was looking at 1 Mbps down and 512Kbps up as Broadband. Give me a break.
What incentive does AT&T, Verizon and Verizon Wireless have to even play here??
Until they up this to at least 10Mbps down and 2 Mbps up there is no reason to discuss anything else.
Most excellent article and analysis.
Launch a satellite cloud, airdrop thousands of netbooks with solar chargers across non-democratic, third-world countries – first priority Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Palestine, Somalia.
Withdraw all US troops from these countries, for nett savings and goodwill.
If they have the ability to recharge the netbook battery, they should be able to buy or build them themselves.
The question no one has asked thus far is: why should the FCC beurocrats be deciding what kind of communications infrastructure we have? Why should the FCC be deciding how much money gets invested in our communications infrastructure?
Imagine a hypothetical island populated by four people. Each person has a job. Person A gathers wood, person B collects fruit, person C builds the house, and person D cooks the meals. Once the island family has enough wood for their fire, does it make any sense for person A to continue gathering wood afterwards? There is an unlimited number of things that the island family needs. Once enough wood has been collected, perhaps person A’s time would be better spent making clothing, or gathering more fruit, or building a boat for fishing. If the island family were to implement a central economic planning system that mandated that person A gather twice as much wood as they really needed, then the family would be deprived of the clothing, fruit, or boats that person A would have otherwise made.
Similarily, when the government dictates how much of our investment capital shall be invested in communications infrastruture, our society is being deprived of the goods and services that would have been created by that capital otherwise. That $7.2B was taken from the taxpayers. We’ll never know what use it would have been put to had it not been taken from them. Perhaps it would have been invested in communications infrastruture anyway, but that should be left to the free market to decide. You can rest assured that this satellite plan will deprive our society of something that would have been more useful.
In a knowledge-based economy, what could be more important than access to the ultimate knowledge pool? The free market has ignored the loss-making rural areas, and will continue to do so. Therefore, the government has a moral duty to step-in and fill the gaps. And providing such connectivity will actually save the government money in not having to have physical offices etc.
Thanks for the well spoken voice of common sense. What many fail to realize is that this country became great when there was 0% income tax, so the government couldn’t fund anything.
ronc,
Errr…when did “this nation” become “great”? In the history books I’ve read, there have always
been some sort of tax…sales taxes, sugar tax, tax on gold, jewelry, property…even before
the American Revolution. Here’s a couple of items that might interest you to read…
https://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html
https://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/adams7.html
If anything, the early United States was on the verge of dissolution and bankruptcy, and
didn’t become “great” until after the Civil War when some form of income tax was
introduced.
The greatness began with the constitution. I’m not anti-tax; there are plenty of natural monopolies, like the military, that must be run by by or regulated by government. But it’s also true that when the government does something it’s basically people like you and me spending other people’s money instead of our own. Hence it’s more wasteful and results in misallocation of resources.
I’m surprised Gates went for rockets over the big rail-gun design. Mt. Kilimanjaro is almost ice-free now.
Also, only about 2% of your bandwidth is over the continental US at any one time. 70% is over the oceans, and the poles (and, I suppose, the Poles) get a reasonable whack too.
Look for cheap mobile rates for fishermen and arctic explorers.
Teledesic didn’t happen for two reasons 1 – McCaw was unrealistic in his expectations and believed his hand-picked academicians who had never built, let alone actually launched real hardware, and 2 – He held onto his control of the company too long and didn’t cash in on the dot com IPO boom, which could have easily netted enough money to fully build and launch the sats.
Boeing was another (often forgotten) investor, and for a time, partner in Teledesic. Boeing determined that the real numbers were that McCaw could have two of his theoretical price, theoretical schedule, or theoretical performance, but NOT all three – at least with the satellite electronics and launch capabilities of a decade ago.
Another thing to consider is any satellite venture is, to some extent, an international issue. Some are less so – think “fixed” geosynchronous orbit over a major country like China, US, Russia, Brazil, etc. where the satellite’s footprint is largely confined within a country’s borders. But a LEO system, like Teledesic, is entirely an international issue and that’s how McCaw sold it to the ITU to get the spectrum required to make it work (required close to 1 GHz was needed). McCaw’s “commercial” lobbying of the ITU to get that spectrum was quite a coup. Ergo… the FCC has relatively little to do with a LEO constellation, other than regulating its use in the US.
The real value of Teledesic was to be that it would bring real broadband to every corner of the earth, NOT just the US – think of a broadband version of Iridium with fixed terminals (bigger, better antennas for high bandwidth). Heck, better communications with polar research stations alone could fund a significant part of a renewed Teledesic.
And as for the concern that a satellite system is “fixed” at a given speed that would be too soon obsolete… nope. You end up HAVING to upgrade the constellation every 7-10 years – satellites wear out, run out of fuel, etc. If you’re going to put new satellites into orbit, you make ’em continually better, just like the DOD is doing with the GPS constellation – slow, continual upgrades.
The thing that makes this practical now is the much cheaper commercial launchers like SpaceX… not to mention vastly better electronics for the space segment. We’d do one terminal per village and spread it out using Wi-Fi. Yes, WiMAX and GSM work, but Wi-Fi is totally free and spectrum agnostic. With that kind of market, the Wi-Fi and WiMAX devices could quickly equal availability and pricing and quickly exceed the capability of GSM. And to answer the inevitable peanut gallery… Wi-Fi works fine over longer distances, up to miles. Wi-Fi AP’s simply aren’t designed to do so.
The FCC just takes over and puts the NSA out of business? I trust the spooks more than some appointed bureaucrat with an agenda. As usual, speed costs.
“…the big telephone companies essentially stealing $200+ billion in tax credits in exchange for, well, nothing.” What the hell is wrong with your country?
Great thinking Bob. However here is why it will never pass neither Congress nor Senate.
Just 3 words – pork barrel projects. Politicians will not approve that kind of money to be spent without missing chance to attach their pork barrel projects to it and that will require so much money that project will die. Add to it fierce lobbying by ISPs and it is dead on arrival at both Houses.
Aw, who needs satellites? Check out Space Cable https://www.spacecable.org.uk/Comms%20and%20Science.html
Just don’t dwell on the Engineering Challenges page too long.
Second point is that a little latency that keeps the game players from using up all that bandwidth might be a good thing – so they don’t delay my movie downloads. After all, if my tax money is going for this, I want it targeted to my preferences.
I don’t get the 100Mb part. You state that America has to close the gap and they will do that by launching 800 sats (wow) for 100Mb-connectivity-for all. This will take … eh how long? In the meantime in large parts of Europe 40-60Mb over Cable is the standard right now, while more advanced nations already touch the 100Mb even in rural areas, adding 20Mb bandwidth (without extra costs!) every two months. So based on timing I think 100Mb is too little to actually make it to the top.
Then there is the way we use Internet. From download-only our usage pattern is developing into an always on realtime communications approach. With social networks all over the place and services like Google Wave or other hosted Apps farms, people expect low latency services. I don’t see that coming from satellites.
I’d prefer meshed wimax. And breaking up the big telcos. Probably starting with the second.
The problem with satellite based systems is neither technological nor economic but political. Many nations do not want unrestricted/neutral Internet beamed into their countries. That is a matter of Sovereignty and Polity of peoples.
If this access is possible with something as simple as a USB transmitter Censors in various countries would be by-passed. Many U.S. Citizens laud this as free-speech and adjunct to other freedoms. However the World is not the U.S. Many countries do have censorship and its not the evil kind like the .CN & .PK I think about .AU .CA and .DE and their efforts to stem the nasty stuff flowing in from the US in terms of sex and violence in defense of families and children who will eventually contribute to those states Polity and Sovereignty. They have every right to govern and/or self regulate communications into/out of the country as does the .US – in terms of Polity.
Fairness, openness, transparency is a Western Ideal. It can not be forced onto other nations as a Satellite system would offer to do.
Right now ICANN has approved non-Latin Alphabet domain names. With a satellite system Internet filters at a personal level would begin at the TLD. Companies like Google will force that. Right now most my .hu and .ru are filters against porn and scams. Which is the reverse problem. The .US gets other nations sites more into the mix of domestic site rankings which is more to muddle through before finding what I want. I also suspect the system to allow more opportunity for vulnerabilities to technological attacks on commerce and business. Why? Who will patrol and control this system? A single global company?
Within 5 years it has to move to a Gated Network system. localized Consumers/businesses on many local nets with their national Gov, Mil and edu. Want to go deep into international sites you have to go to an aggregator who has the gates of point of entry. It will have to be pay to play and fines for abuse and spam. But again Who is in political control?
Making free and open internet access available to censoring countries is not the same as forcing them to use it. If you are a Talib, you can still choose to surf your government net (bet you won’t, though).
But then I don’t believe that an arbitrary group has the right to enforce their viewpoint on me as an individual. So who will have control? Nobody – that is the beauty of the internet, and that is why this is a great idea.
Sure, free speech has a downside (kiddieporn, terrorist websites), but the upside is always an order of magnitude greater (Wikileaks, Google).
You are right that the obstacles are political. This will take away power from politicians and bureaucrats, and thus be resisted by them. However, if you see this as an efficient military strategy by other means, then maybe the idea can get some traction.
data, like little people, just wants to be free. it’s like the Samizdat of Soviet Russia. they can’t pick up all the disrupters passing dirty wrinkled pages from a Banned Book from sleeve to sleeve.
free speech kills tin-star dictators.
Mr. Chairman, tear down this firewall!
Wouldn’t high altitude balloons be much, much cheaper. They could be tethered to supply data, power, and provide serviceability. There are obvious aviation issues, but chart updates, education and lighting/decorating the cable/tether could deal with most of those issues. There would obviously need to be more the 840 balloons to cover the planet, but each country could cover their own territory.
Bob,
What about Iridium? They never left the arena, but quietly moved the arena down under and now they are back irdm on NYSE. They moved their niched to government services and now appear to be coming back with this same plan. What’s your opinion and what do you hear about them?
Bob, this turkey will never fly. Just like your nonsense moon shot won’t. Just like your nonsense tin foil hard drives won’t. You are only interesting when you write about apple/microsoft/google. I feel compelled to comment harshly because it is so far from common sense.
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The problem here, is what the Obama administration will end up doing.
I’m a liberal (economically speaking) so I lean to the left. I therefore, of course, voted for Obama. As an individual, I think he’s a fine man. Politically and economically he’s to far to the right for me. But that’s not the problem, at least as far as this topic goes.
The problem is the Obama administration, is turning out, like many other administrations managed by people who come into government administration with very little experience, to be vulnerable to rank corruption.
Obama could create a super-satellite internet for $7 billion. But his administration won’t do it, if they can be in charge of doling out $100 or $200 billion to the telecom industry, for basically, once again, nothing.
The entire pattern is getting to be quite disgusting. Our government, our political system, over the last 30 years, is increasingly unable to solve our nations chronic problems. The collapse is coming so fast that we’ll soon have first world educated people walking around a third or fourth world, Haiti like context. That’s what happens when government doesn’t exercise fundamentally sound civics for over 30, 40, 50 years. I am really quite discouraged about the future.
The Server Sky speculative project (http://server-sky.com) has a good introduction to orbital mechanics (http://server-sky.com/OrbitsV01) and latency (http://server-sky.com/RadioV01) on their proposal’s wiki. Reading that would give the prior commentators numbers with which to improve the quality of their yelling.
Satellites are nice but what is 4G and I guess 5G is next. This has to be far cheaper. And you have to remember so you too will have soon have a cell tower in your backyard also. Just try and stop one from going up. I know you can not do it. So lets see if we can actually use this stuff to help people and keep cost down.
building 830 of something (LEO sats) has GOT to be cheaper than building 100,000 or more of something else (mesh 4G.) even if the 830 are Maybachs and the 100,000 are Yugos.
“The National Broadband Plan is supposed to fix that, though at a cost some are predicting (hoping?) will be more than $100 billion. This time the cable TV companies will be joining the telcos at that trough.”
Hoping it will be more than $100 billion? Great. More government, socialistic spending. I mean, why allow private enterprise to be cost efficient when the government can spend billions and achieve nothing? Sounds absolutely logical to me.
Since when did you become a Socialist, Bob?
If this plan is possible like it sounds, the Google clan must have already signed off cheques for it!
Google actually did write a cheque to O3B. Their constellation is in an equatorial MEO, so it’s a tradeoff between cost and latency and it only provides +-45 degree coverage, but it’s only sixteen satellites in two launches.
A somewhat long shot game changer is a sudden improvement in energy storage density. Given the new massive increases in investment in energy storage, this is possible and would enable AeroVironment Helios Prototype and successors to stay up overnight. This would be orders of magnitude cheaper than satellites. It would solve the latency problem at an altitude of 100K ft. and would not require international cooperation. If the equipment in one of the UAVs breaks or needs to be upgraded, just land on a calm day, fix it and relaunch in the morning. If you see high density energy storage coming, sell satellites short.
“A somewhat long shot game changer is a sudden improvement in energy storage density. ”
or cold nuclear fusion.
“For those who don’t remember it or have forgotten”
What would be the difference, Bob? I think you’re being redundant, I think.
MP
The wingnuts will storm the Capitol and demand that this eye in the sky not be built because it means the death of freedom. Doesn’t matter that this would be total BS, because it would be an Obama initiative and thus worthy of ignorant obstruction. Imagine the lies that could be spun in opposition of this initiative.
Having worked on the ICO (MEO) project I think Teledesic will run into the same problems: during the development program the specification was updated to reflect advances in technology that had made their way into commercial terrestrial networks, mainly data speed, but also new services. The design was obsolete even before launch. I agree with the 800+ pieces of junk assessment (more work for the scow then 😉
hi tech bully pulpit would come just in time for our communist mildly retarded president Obamby who sympathizes with Hugo Chavez to discourage the developing world. Yuk.
How is this different from Iridium?
Fascinating article, but what I would really like to know is where did all those SS-18 missiles go. Are they still in the ground waiting for our Russian friends to reactivate the launch codes ?
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In Reply to Cringely, I hope that one day the “google world” will not became true.
Google energy, Googleternet, googleDNS, googleADSsearch, free I’m not sure; they scared me.
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