What happened to Neokast? It’s a mystery to me. But I suspect the answer will surprise us all soon enough.
Neokast, as readers of my old PBS column will recall, was a peer-to-peer live video streaming application developed by graduate students from Northwestern University near Chicago. That’s me talking about it there on the left, back in 2007.
I loved the company instantly. It was out of the Silicon Valley limelight, away from the technical mainstream for such software (Neokast was a .NET application and therefore pretty much Windows-only), but most important of all, it seemed to actually work. The potential was extremely compelling. Here’s how I described it back then:
“…the more people who watch your Neokast the more efficiently will your server bandwidth be utilized. According to Birrer, under normal circumstances the server bandwidth should plateau at 3-4 times that of a single stream NO MATTER HOW MANY VIEWERS ARE BEING SERVED. With a per-stream bandwidth of 700 kilobits per second, this means that Neokast would never require more than a continuous three megabits per second of server bandwidth per video channel. Let’s put that in a real-world context. Three megabits per second is almost precisely 1000 gigabytes per month, which is half the allotted monthly throughput for a $6.99-per-month web site at 1&1. So if Neokast’s claim is valid, it would be possible to broadcast American Idol or the Super Bowl or friggin’ CNN worldwide for $7 per month.”
I called it “The $7 Television Network.”
Response to that column was electric, as was the reaction to Neokast, itself, when the beta software was shown shortly thereafter at a trade show in California.
Neokast was on a roll. Now all they had to do was deliver.
But apparently they didn’t because now Neokast is gone. Their web site is dark. The entire technical team, as far as I can tell, left last September to start a new company in an new product space – content management. The company’s sole patent application even lost its legal representation in January when a Chicago-based law firm withdrew. Only NeoKast CEO Adam Johnson remains with the company and that’s only according to his Facebook page, where he appears with a remarkable variety of very attractive young women.
It’s a familiar story, right? The idea was good but the code wasn’t. OR the code was good but they ran out of money. OR the code was good and they had enough money but the founders had a falling-out. OR any other mundane reason that you might care to come up with. Neokast is gone, so what?
I’ll tell you so what. My 32 years in this industry tell me that none of those possibilities is true and that some aspect of Neokast is alive and well, though probably under a different name.
I put these guys on the map. I wrote about them in a way that gained them a huge amount of attention at a time when they were getting no attention from anyone. All that means, really, is that their mothers would teach them to be nice to me. And sure enough, on January 28th, when Adam Johnson and I happened to share a birthday, though almost 30 years apart, we wished each other well within hours on Facebook.
But Adam DIDN’T tell me then that his company was effectively dead. It took a reader to point that out to me a couple weeks later. And when I went down that same Facebook path I’d used to wish Adam a happy birthday — this time to ask what happened to Neokast — I got no reply at all. So I tried again, more forcefully. Still no reply.
So I tried a couple of the ex-Neokast technical guys at their new startup. No answer.
No answer? Don’t these people want to promote their new technology? They know what I can do for them; don’t they want me to do it again?
No answer.
This doesn’t happen, not to me.
So what’s the deal? I don’t know. But I have a theory.
I think Neokast was bought for a lot of stock or money by some well-known company. The way the technical team was handled in this transaction it looks like the acquirer wanted the code, not the coders, which suggests a company with confidence, even arrogance, and technical depth.
The reason I can’t get anyone to respond is simple under this scenario: they have to all be under a particularly onerous non-disclosure agreement that will take back the money if they say anything – ANYTHING – about the deal. They aren’t prohibited from just discussing it, they are prohibited even from ACKNOWLEDGING it, hence the total silence.
At one point last year I was told that Microsoft had made an offer for Neokast but was rebuffed. So maybe Microsoft came back again, this time with the BIG checkbook. I think this is most likely. But there are other possibilities. Apple could have acquired Neokast to kill it. IBM could have acquired it to become a player in the streaming video business. Or Sun. Or Cisco. Or some other company, up to even a Comcast, though I don’t see the cable company as being so techie as to rebuff the coders.
If you’ve been paying attention to entertainment news you may have read lately that there is a lot of shuffling for position going on between cable companies, telephone companies, cable and broadcast TV networks, and various startups for dominance of live or on-demand TV channels over the web. But all this talk so far seems to be based on using content distribution networks, not peer-to-peer. Even Joost, the p2p video site from the founders of Skype, has publically given-up on using peer-to-peer distribution, leaving only Grid Networks, as far as I can tell, ostensibly in the live p2p space, if just barely so.
Let’s guess for a moment the acquirer IS Microsoft. Because there has been no public announcement of such an acquisition the buyer has to be a big company like Redmond, where the size of the deal wouldn’t be considered “material” to their business, so they could avoid being required by the SEC to even issue a press release. Of course it could just as easily be the other suspects I named.
But there are many reasons to believe the buyer is Microsoft. They took a run at the company before, remember. They are perfectly equipped to handle the technical job on their own, provided they keep the number of hands to a minimum. They could still screw it up.
There’s no indication, by the way, that Microsoft has done this. Certainly none of my friends who know Microsoft have heard anything. But that could just mean they changed the name and Neokast is now MicroKast or some such thing.
Now here comes Windows 7 – a perfect place to stash a Neokast p2p client. On the other hand, Microsoft could put Neokast code in its regular monthly update and get it running on 20 million .NET nodes overnight. That’s what I would do. What’s funny is if a startup did that there would be an uproar about security, but if Microsoft deploys Neokast overnight it will be seen mainly as a clever move.
Microsoft is desperate to have something new to control and media distribution is their target. They want to control movies and television the same way they have long controlled software. But right now Apple and Google are both doing better than Microsoft is in this space. Ballmer will do anything to beat Apple and Google and the only way to do that – the ONLY way to do that – is by introducing some new game-changing technology like massive, really cheap, delivery of LIVE video. Bring the TiVO video experience to the World Wide Web without requiring a cable box OR an antenna. Well Neokast takes a good shot at doing just that. And bringing the horsepower of 20 million servers to the task would make it even easier.
Maybe the acquirer isn’t Microsoft. But I’ll tell you right now that some big company somewhere has snapped-up Neokast, is continuing to develop the software and intends to introduce it soon with a big splash. I just wish I knew who it was.
“this time with the BIG checkbook.”
Well that would explain the “remarkable variety of very attractive young women.”
You’re a better read than John Grisham. As a programmer for 30 years I’m a little skeptical that three guys in a garage came up with something that Microsoft’s cadre of geniuses couldn’t, but I’m sure it happens once in a while. If you see Adam Johnson and all of the engineers sporting a Zune then I think you’ll have your answer.
To his credit, Adam seems to have had the babes since the beginning.
Interesting read Bob, I would definitely like to see something like this happen. Lets hope there is a big splash soon.
Wouldn’t the aquiring company want that patent that seems to have been abandoned?
The patent hasn’t been abandoned. It’s just that the Chicago-based patent attorney withdrew. The application is still live. If it suddenly had “Microsoft” or “IBM” on it, that would be a giveaway. I’m sure the plan is to get the patent under NeoKast then assign it to the acquirer.
1.)Are you trawling through Google patents regularly?
2.)It’s not Redmond – try Mountain View – How strong did Marissa Meyer deny anything?
I don’t get it.
“… but most important of all, it seemed to actually work.”
Seemed to work. This is the lynchpin of your assumptions. Did it work or didn’t it work? If it didn’t work then I’m not surprised the company went under after failing to deliver, and I’m not surprised management refuse to discuss it.
Simple is usually the accurate reason. In this case, simple is that the technology never actually worked and the business took an evolution-mandated trip to the Deadpool.
It seemed to work when i saw it in early 2007, but that was on a test network with only a few nodes. The subsequent beta, including live cameras, worked, too, with enough nodes to say that with some confidence.
Rumor has it that Apple has played around with P2P for content delivery a couple of years ago.
Now, I saw an article a couple of weeks ago about Apple also using Limelight Networks (besides Akamai) when distributing content and updates to Mac OS X.
So, my guess is that it is Apple who has bought the technology. It’s not the first time a company got bought by Apple and had to keep quite about it til Apple were ready to announce something about it.
If Neokast is as good as you say Cringely, then Neokast is a perfect fit for Apple to own. Specially as Apple is pushing many bits already, and also want to push content to other countries then the US (I’m talking about iTunes Movie Rental store and HD).
So, I bet it’s Apple who bought Neokast. But as you write, no one knows except Neokast and it’s buyer.
I hope you are right.
There are a ton of reasons why Apple would do this and only one reason why they wouldn’t. The reason they wouldn’t is because Neokast is a .NET app. But that also explains why Apple doesn’t need the technical team because their main effort would be to port the code to Java, where apparently Neokast doesn’t have as much expertise.
The biggest reason FOR doing it is HUGE — almost as big as Apple’s motivation for keeping it quiet.
You know this is important enough that I think I’ll add it to the main piece, above, if you don’t mind…
Apple’s motivation comes down to the basic structure of the iTunes music deal, which from the start has involved a financial split with the music publisher (usually a record company). In the earliest days of iTunes Apple claimed $0.34 for distributing every $0.99 download. Later that number dropped to $0.29 for every $0.99 download, so the producer split has actually gone up over time. Now Apple has just cut a new iTunes deal with the publishers that allows variable pricing ($0.69, $0.99, and $1.29 per track) which probably involves another decrease for Apple.
Apple gave up a long time ago the idea that they made no profit from iTunes. In 2007, Billboard Magazine estimated that Apple made $570 million from iTunes in a breathtaking analysis that involved the use of no actual data or even a look at the standard iTunes contract. A better guess for 2007 was $190 million. That’s money that the record companies think should be theirs.
THERE IS NOTHING STEVE JOBS LIKES MORE THAN GETTING THE BEST OF THE OTHER PARTY IN A DEAL. If Apple were about to jump to p2p delivery for iTunes through Neokast or some similar technology, they’d want to keep that a secret. They’d fight the record companies for every last penny with the pricing model based on using Content Distribution Networks like Akamai and Limelight where Apple would still need about $0.15 per download to break even. The record companies wouldn’t expect Apple to LOSE money on the deal, so they’d be thrilled to get variable pricing, Apple’s share down to $0.15, and in exchange for that they’d give up Digital Rights Management.
Only THEN does Apple reveal it has moved to p2p, cutting its distribution cost effectively to zero. Apple’s p2p client would be downloaded as part of iTiunes covering tens of millions of PCs and Macs.
The advantages here for Apple are clear and BIG. The download model puts very little load on Neokast which, after all, is designed for real-time streaming. But having Neokast installed almost everywhere leaves Apple that real-time streaming option for when Steve decides to take on the TV networks. It’s a brilliant strategy. I just hope it is real.
Cringely wrote: “They’d fight the record companies for every last penny with the pricing model based on using Content Distribution Networks like Akamai and Limelight where Apple would still need about $0.15 per download to break even.”
The correct thing to say is “They’d fight the record companies for every last penny.” The cost model is irrelevant to the negotiation. Negotiations are based on what competitors can offer. And lots of bluffing.
Here’s the math on content delivery. I can get CDN services for around 10 cents per GB (given >100 TB/mo), and Apple presumably negotiates much better rates than that. Let’s say the average song is 5 MB, and there’s an additional 100% overhead (free samples, upload bandwidth and CDN storage). The delivery price per song = 2 x 5 MB x 10 cents / 1000GB = .1 cents per song…less than one percent of 15 cents (iTunes video might average slightly more than a cent per download). At a rate of 2 billion songs per year, Apple would thus be paying $2 million per year to CDN providers — small change to Apple, and certainly not enough to warrant an acquisition.
Now, if Apple were planning to offer subscription music, expand its video offerings or get into streaming, there might be more to this. However, CDN costs have been declining rapidly and making unicast prices cheaper and cheaper every year. Meanwhile the main limiting factor in P2P applications, peer upstream bandwidth, has remained largely stagnant in the US. P2P applications are still very interesting and cool from a math point of view, and are great for distributing unprofitable content.
Other than your 32 years of experience, why you don’t think this was a scam? The quick disappearance of all involved smells more than a little fishy. Did they ever disclose their investors?
This is a relationship business. These kids would talk to me if they weren’t under some contract restriction. I don’t think Neokast particularly lacked for money, either.
Octoshape is the most promising technology in the live video streaming space by far (inauguration on CNN anyone?). Neokast is probably gone because of one of the simple reasons you mentioned early in the article. The code for building a solid p2p live video streaming is not that diffcult to write for a capable software house so I really can’t see why would anyone buy them in stealth mode, does not make sense.
Octoshape is a gimmick. I hope they find a way to make better use of it than they did on CNN.
Trust me, Neokast is out there, somewhere, GROWING.
Take a look to these guys: http://www.splitcast.net
They are developing a completely new p2p live streaming technology, with virtualy no delay and completely embeded
I hope it is Apple. Have you though about Time Warner. I remember a few weeks ago they came out talking about developing their version of HULU for their subscribers.
I don’t think T-W has the technical depth to do this the way it should be done.
That never stopped them from buying Atari, and screwing that up.
You’re right about the deal.
But I think you’re wrong about the motivations… not keeping on even a skeleton team of programmers/engineers means one thing to me: that the acquiring company wanted only the IP of the acquisition, OR they just wanted to shut down a potential competitor.
I’d bet on the latter.
You miss one other possibility (one that makes me think even more strongly of Comcast).
There is the likelihood that a major player in present technology wants to stop this sort of new game changing innovation. In other words, buy it and bury it. Comcast could see all of its channels and extras going out the window. They do not want to be just a broadband delivery company. I notice you mentioned Apple in this context. Comcast, and other present providers could be involved. Granted if they took the new technology, developed it and used it they could become even more successful than they are. However, this is not the mind set at most large companies, which is usually how to make the best gain this and next quarter (usually by firing staff).
I tend to see is just the opposite. A technology like Neokast would function beautifully on a CATV network like Comcast. I mentioned Comcast specifically because they have said later this spring they’ll allow subscribers to watch live over the Internet on other devices. This has been played as an indirect way to get people to pay for streaming (you have to be a Comcast home subscriber first in order then to watch Comcast on your iPhone). Going p2p for the alternate platforms would reduce that cost to zero for Comcast.
I have a strong tendancy to believe that most business in the USA has become ossified – they want to keep making money the way they made money yesterday / last week / last month / last year. In that fashion, they’ll walk around (or smash) incredible opportunities, just so they can stick with what they feel is tried and true. That argues in favor of roger doger’s assertion – that they bought it to bury it.
But… From what you’ve said, the application was put into the patent office. That stuff obviously becomes public upon issue, and it’s in the public domain 17 years from grant or 20 years from file. But I have no idea what becomes of abandoned patents – whether they eventually become public.
Please keep on sharing!!! Thanks so much!!.
Please keep on sharing!!! Thanks so much!!.
Please keep on sharing!!! Thanks so much!!.
Comcast doesn’t want any P2P traffic at all. The real reason is the upstream bandwidth is more limited than they want to admit. Their network is a bunch of coathanger wire and bubble gum. Why, they don’t even have UPSs in their facilities – when we lose electrical power, Comcast is the last service to come up. I suspect most other non-telco ISPs are only slightly better. P2P only works well in small setups; trying to send the SuperBowl world-wide with P2P would be another Victoria’s Secret moment.
Why would Neokast’s product be any different/better than bittorrent?
Isn’t it also likely that some anti peer to peer corporation, say someone in the broadcast TV market wanted to put a stop to yet another p2p system?
Neokast is live streaming video, which BitTorrent can’t do. Though by definition video is stored and forwarded on the Neokast clients, what’s stored is never a complete copy or even anything playable as a video file. This overcomes a lot of the copyright holders’ objections. That’s what makes it so attractive.
Or, … there was nothing new and novel about the technology. A peer to peer client? This is different from say: Napster or Bit torrent, exactly how? And, I have heard a rumor that venture capital is a tad hard to find these days. Just a rumor mind you… 😉
As I wrote above, it is LIVE REAL-TIME VIDEO. Those other applications can’t do that.
“Big deal,” you say. “I don’t care. I watch everything after it is downloaded, anyway.”
In that case Neokast still has the advantage that you can decide after the fact that you wish you had watched something and have it up on your screen in a few seconds, rather than the hours to days it can take with BitTorrent.
Fair cop, that is a tad different. However, in the end, surely it just means that the content is being picked up live and relayed live, rather than later. Perhaps, a better example would have been skype which comes close to that (or did) in their radio mode?
I think it went the way of NerdTV…..*poof* 🙁
NerdTV will return later this year on YouTube in partnership with the Computer History Museum.
Great, thanks RXC!
I took a guided tour of the museum in January. An interview while sitting on some Cray “furniture” would be appropriate.
Here’s a couple of other plausible ideas:
* Google bought it to continue it’s domination in that space. They have a hoard of good programmers, that’s why they didn’t assimilate the developers.
* Amazon bought it to expand in media products and/or their other cloud computing products. I think they’re pretty good about keeping things hush-hush until it’s presented to the world. Very low key.
None of these (nor your theory) would explain why they dropped the patent pursuit. If you have something so important and so potentially earth shattering, why not patent it to protect your investment. Without a patent they’re open to competition in 6 months.
Thanks,
Mark
An new thought occurred to me. Maybe Akamai or Limelight Networks bought it to protect it’s business in some way.
I still question the conspiracy theory.
It’s not a conspiracy theory but a CONFIDENTIALITY theory. The behavior here suggests that someone has product timing in mind and is trying to control the press.
The patent application wasn’t dropped, it still exists. It’s just that the attorney withdrew, leaving the client in charge. Who that client is at this point is anyone’s guess….
Maybe it became PPLive.
I bet Mark Cuban knows something about this. This is his bag, his area of interest and expertise. Also I noticed there are big players in the casino / gaming industries that invest and buy within entertainment and technology where you wouldn’t suspect. Keep an eye on that channel. Very interesting.
I love this post by the way.
Mark Cuban doesn’t have that much money, although he has the motive.
Guys – it’s different from bittorrent because it’s LIVE STREAMING VIDEO.
+1 for Octoshape. I used it to watch the last **two** annual Eurovision Song Contests (oh shuddup, they’re fun). Last year it was in Belgrade, and I watched the final live as it happened at 700 kbps in Southern California. Not one single glitch in 3 1/2 hours. Amazing.
This is a very interesting train of thought. If I was Redmond, I wouldn’t allow this to happen, simply on the basis of being a self fulfilling prophecy to the movie made about this very subject. Especially with a sequel announced recently.
If they actually did bite into the streaming media business, I wouldn’t be surprised from a business stand point. Entertainment is the best business to be in. When you can control the content and the distribution.
Let’s take an imaginary scenario with made up companies and names: Somebody from a large technology company, we’ll say Beve Stalmer likes this technology, and sees how it can give his company an edge over is two biggest nemeses: Jeven Sobs, and Bergey Srin. So, Beve buys Neokast and plans to use it in order to get a leg up with Jeven and Bergey. But, Beve doesn’t need the developers who developed this technology because Beve is certain he can do it without their help. So, instead of buying the company and letting it continue its amazing work, Beve pays each and every developer and the founder of the company enough money to simply walk away.
Now, if this technology is so fantastic and great, wouldn’t Jeven and Bergey develop this technology too? After all, if Beve thinks the technology is easy enough to do without the original Neokast founders and developers, it certainly would be easily duplicated by Jeven and Bergey.
What Beve’s company would really be interested in is the patents from Neokast and not the developers. If Beve’s company holds the patents, Jeven and Bergey’s companies won’t be able to duplicate the technology, thus lose out on this great opportunity. World domination would at last be in Beve’s grasp!
So, all we have to do is look at what happened to the patents. Who acquired them? Are they still valid? The only mention of the patent in your article (apparently, there is only a single patent) is the the law firm representing the patent is calling it quits. Is that patent application still active? Withdrawing the application now does nothing since I am sure almost every single technology company had a peek before it was withdrawn.
What it sounds like to me is that Neokast’s technology simply didn’t scale. That Neokast thought they found a way to make everything work, but details got in the way. The developers and Adam Johnson parted ways under less than amiable circumstances. Otherwise, Adam Johnson would have started up another company with this same group of whizbang developers who created this marvelous bit of technology. My take is the developers started realizing that Neokast was not possible, and Mr. Johnson refused to believe it. This is why the developers founded their own company, and Mr. Johnson is still insisting he has a company called Neokast.
I can’t look at Mr. Johnson’s Facebook page, but I could see Mr. Johnson’s LinkedIn page: (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/1A2/909). Mr. Johnson’s company is still Neokast, but his industry is now “Fundraising”.
Um, the real answer to from someone who knows is much simpler and less intriguing:
a) NK’s management team had no business experience in either the streaming space or in running tech startups
b) Said Mr. Johnson was arrogant and unwilling to accept the above point
c) He was unable to come up with a business model that made money
d) He did not want to raise venture capital until it was too late to do so
Btw, there was never any serious offer from Microsoft or anyone else. And the company shut down because their angel investors (who were not themselves experienced venture investors, rather friends of Mr. Johnson’s father), got cold feet (as they should have) when said Mr. Johnson could not come up with a sensible business model.
Arrogance + Inexperience = shutdown, no matter how good the original idea, or how great the software team.
Now THIS suddenly sounds plausible!!
I have met the people involved and see a lot of wisdom in this response. I heard that the Microsoft offer was low-ball. I believe the company fumbled the chance for quick funding which I, frankly, handed them. While I didn’t at the time sense frustration in the dev team it comes inevitably if the work is left too long on the stove. Adam Johnson was WAY too much into being with all those pretty girls. The only part I can’t understand is why none of these guys will talk to me? Are they just embarrassed?
Thanks for the insight.
Bravo RXC! This is why I will continue to read your columns as long as you continue to write them.
This morning, I didn’t know (or remember) or care about this company. Not only did your narrative intrigue me in the mystery of what happened to their technology, but we seemed to have found the real (at least, a more plausible) answer in the comments below.
And the best part was that I’m leaving your column today feeling not just more informed (by the ‘real’ answer you got in reply) but disappointed as well — because I preferred your alternative version of (future) history.
You’re the most entertaining and (for startup guys) inspiring alternative-history futurist I know, Bob. Keep up the good work!
[…] The Neokast Mystery – “Neokast, as readers of my old PBS column will recall, was a peer-to-peer live video streaming application developed by graduate students from Northwestern University near Chicago…” […]
nice guessing game. my 2ct: first, this app is not unique, there is plenty of competion, some of it in trouble already. (joost?), some of it well established (at least in china), then, Neokast is programmed in .net. that makes google and apple a very unlikey buyer. even microsoft doesnt release time critical apps developed in .net. its not rocket science to recognize that .net is more for rapid prototyping, advanced installers, and GUI wizard stuff but no serious low level infrastructure code. the most successful torrent client, utorrent takes less than 1 MB. so the buyers if there are any must be rather clueless.
[…] Neokast’s disappearing act – The peer-to-peer live video streaming company mysteriously went dark last fall after early hype. What happened? Bob Cringely has a theory. […]
Is it possible to include links into your blog posts? Back at the PBS site, you always had a bunch of links that related to your post under the title “Links from Bob”. I always went through these to get more background information. For example, it would have been nice to see a link to Neokast’s patent application, or maybe to your old PBS post.
Good idea! I guess I was just getting lazy. I’ll start doing that with my next column coming in a couple days.
Wait, there wouldn’t be a security uproar if MS put a P2P streaming video client in Windows 7, or even worse as a generic Update?!? Riiiiiiight……
Even if it would be a major entertainment win and lots of people would use and enjoy it, the security and tech pundits everywhere would be ALL OVER slamming Microsoft if they “sneaked” that update in.
“The only part I can’t understand is why none of these guys will talk to me? ” — are you kidding us? just look at your mast head… the guys are afraid you might gank their pretty girls …
Bob has got his groove back. I agree MS is the likely player and offer these possibilities for the
shun:
1) If NK folded and all the principles are mute, then there are lawyers involved.
2) If NK was acquired and all the principles are mute, then there are lawyers involved.
If it is the former then the there would be public court filings in Chicago going after Mr. Johnson for
damages. Unless of course the disgruntled Chicago “angel investors” decided to make Adam Johnson hotdogs 😉
Well…aside from Insider Joe’s comments, and supposing that someone really did buy it…
Didn’t Microsoft come up with Silverlight rather quickly? And at a rather advanced level at that, no? At least to me, it seemed like it came out of nowhere – no rumors before hand, just *poof* – an ready-to-go, ready-to-distribute product.
So perhaps Microsoft really did figure out a way to buy it, relabel it as “Silverlight” and push it out. They did distribute it to all Windows systems via Windows Update – at least for everyone who wasn’t careful enough to unselect the Silverlight installation. And they’ve pushed it out for several major content uses.
While it uses .Net, it also seems to carry its own stripped-down version of the .Net Stack to be able to run without the latest and greatest full featured .Net stack installed. Not to mention is seems a lot like an after-thought for Microsoft. So something says (possibly even screams) “custom job” and not “made-in-house”.
Sad…as I really like the theory of “Apple bought it and is porting it to Java”; but Apple, as you have oh so often mentioned is very much behind H.264, which is far more portable and already supported by a lot of different applications and software appliances, so it wouldn’t make as much sense for them to move to something proprietary like NeoKast.
Nice theory, but Silverlight ain’t it. Silverlight may involve video, but it is like Flash. It’s an application that executes a file. This file can be streamed down to a particular user while Silverlight is executing, but you have to stream that file to each and every user.
Neokast was a way you could broadcast a video or event, and have each user who watches that video broadcast it to the next user. That way, you don’t need massive amounts of bandwidth to stream your presentation to a million users.
It really didn’t take Microsoft too long to come up with Silverlight because there really isn’t all that much behind an application like Flash. What makes Flash Flash is the fact that it is ubiquitous. You create a Flash file, and everyone can view it. (That is, as long as you don’t have an iPhone or a 64bit version of Linux).
64 bit *Linux* can view Flash. Its 64 bit Windows that I think still has a problem.
[…] dead. Our logic would say Neokast has just gone out of business, but Cringely thinks otherwise. His conclusion? Neokast was bought by Microsoft under a veil of secrecy and nobody can talk about it. It was a […]
Neokast’s web sites (neokast.com and neokastblog.com) only show up in the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine for 2007.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://neokast.com
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://neokastblog.com
I’m still not seeing why Neokast is supposed to be any great improvement over BitTorrent. It might have a few incremental improvements in detail, but that’s not enough to displace a well-established de facto standard. Bob’s claim that the big difference is that Neokast plays immediately while with BT you have to wait for the whole download is wrong; you can start watching a BT stream as soon as it starts downloading. (At least if the stream is downloading faster than realtime — and if it isn’t, of course, Neokast isn’t going to work either.)
Swarmplayer has Live Bittorent streaming as well as on demand
http://trial.p2p-next.org/
Netflix.
Based solely on need/timing (everybody is going to their online service, and the timing is in line with all their other build-outs for online) and competitive interests (they can beat their competition if their means of distribution is lower, then their prices can be lowest). Plus Netflix is smart.
If that’s not true, and the company’s assets are simply rotting in the warehouse, then perhaps Netflix will make it true when somebody forwards them this article. Assuming the ISP companies don’t do a Heisman block, with a patent in hand Netflix owns distribution for a number of years. It’s not 20, because at the same time this will light a fire under the ISP’s’ collective buttox and get multicast deployed. But that’ll take a few years to actually happen, by which time the $10/mo Netflix all-you-can-eat will be very well-entrenched. And that gets us out to about the point you’ve predicted that even unicast will be cheaper than broadcast, so perhaps it’s long enough.
Having tested Neokast and having some personal contact with some of the people behind it I have no doubt that someone will use it to become a very powerful “broadcaster/content distributor” over the Internet at a very low cost. My guess/wish would be gApple.tv (google + apple), the two together have everything needed to create iHollyEntertainment…
just.a.Random.Idea
[…] I received a large response from my most recent column on the Neokast mystery. The most interesting post was this one: Insider Joe says: March 8, 2009 at 8:23 pm (Edit) […]
Bob one huge problem with your Microsoft speculation is that they already have a investment in LiveStation a streaming p2p company that is gaining popularity with Live News Feeds like Al Jezzera Livestation gained traction with the recent Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip becuse they also have chat .
Live Station is based on Microsoft’s own Avalanche p2p code that came out of Microsoft Research so why would they bother investing in a technology they already have .
I am a friend of Adam Johnson, but he has fallen off the face of the planet in the past couple months… interesting… especially that he highlighted this link on his status update on facebook….
I don’t have friend named Larry
But do you have a friend named Sergei? 😉
haha… the Internet is an amazing and wacky place
[…] I, Cringely » The Neokast Mystery […]
Bob, maybe this will provide a further clue.
Adam Johnson’s experience, according to his LinkedIn page:
Co-Founder and President
NEOKAST, LLC (Online Media industry)
September 2006 — May 2008 (1 year 9 months)
NEOKAST, LLC develops software focused around the online streaming media space including content management, streaming protocols for live and on-demand content, video rendering, video finger-printing, and more.
Co-Founder and President
METIS ENTERPRISE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC (Computer Software industry)
April 2006 — May 2008 (2 years 2 months)
METIS ENTERPRISE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC patents and develops enterprise level software solutions in streaming video, e-discovery, file/document/content management, and more.
Notice the dates?
A quick Google search on Metis Enterprise Technologies LLC turns up the following patent:
<>
Hope this helps.
PS: And here’s hoping it’s Apple that turns out to be the victor here, too.
Whoops. Let’s try that link again: <>
Skype? Any possibility they sold the streaming video thing to Skype? The version 4 is very good I hear. Low bandwidth and good quality …
Just my two cents. What if the technology was included in another application? The posts here have talked about streaming real-time video of live events. What if those events were video games in high definition? Not just streaming video of games, but actually playing the games themselves?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10202688-235.html
Hmmm – well, lessee… It was .NET, eh? Well, Silverlight is essentially .NET and I hear that a certain big company will be exclusively streaming many upcoming events (2010 Olympics) using Silverlight…
actually the CEO was shady and the company fell apart from poor management up top
oxycodone 30 mg…
. . . . . what is oxycodone. oxycodone 5 mg. when does oxycodone expire. oxycodone 30mg. …
i always watch streaming videos online, they are sort of my past time..;;
What it sounds like to me is that Neokast’s technology simply didn’t scale. That Neokast thought they found a way to make everything work, but details got in the way. The developers and Adam Johnson parted ways under less than amiable circumstances. Otherwise, Adam Johnson would have started up another company with this same group of whizbang developers who created this marvelous bit of technology. My take is the developers started realizing that Neokast was not possible, and Mr. Johnson refused to believe it. This is why the developers founded their own company, and Mr. Johnson is still insisting he has a company called Neokast.cheap VPS
You have officially made my head hurt. Hehe, have you ever heard of TED? Yep, you should be a speaker on TED.
Heya man.. Just found this blog from Google. Thanks for the good stuff!
Fantastic blog website, keep me through searching it, I will be actually interested to find out more about it.
The patent hasn’t been abandoned. It’s just that the Chicago-based patent attorney withdrew. The application is still live. If it suddenly had “Microsoft” or “IBM” on it, that would be a giveaway. I’m sure the plan is to get the patent under NeoKast then assign it to the acquirer.
The Best User Guide, Manual Guide, Owner Guide and Circuit and Wiring Diagram Database Website
Thanks very good o/
good thanks o/
The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod’s. It works well, but isn’t as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that’s not an issue, but if you’re planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod’s larger screen and better browser may be important.
If you’re still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you’ll know which is right for you.
Thank you very much for having shared your encouraging ideas with us. There is nothing greater than finding out that others can connect. I am sure others will see eye to eye with you.
I don’t believe my eyes. This blog is loaded with info. I can’t wait to use these information.
This website has greatly helped me. I will return again. The tips shared here are great. Please update this site with new information.
I just searched for this website and found it. It has been a great source of ideas.
I love reading websites like these. It has been an nice source of info. I could not get sites like these. Thanks once more.
Your site has been an amazing source of information. I will come back many times. I want other sites like this for information. Thanks for your great thoughts.
This website has greatly helped me. I will visit again. The tips shared here are great. Kindly update this blog with new ideas.
https://www.want-signed.com/artists/vs23/vs23
Thank you very much for having shared your encouraging ideas with us.
cable companies are also offering broadband internet these days and the cost is cheap too ;:,
Hostgator Black Friday 2010 Special Offer: (80% off everything)50% OFF EVERYTHING From 12:00AM CST – 5AM CST – Coupon Code : blackfriday50off,80% OFF EVERYTHING From 5AM – 9AM CST – Coupon Code : blackfriday80off,50% OFF EVERYTHING From 9AM – 11:59PM CST – Coupon Code : blackfriday50off
shares start using a superb web site decent Gives gives wanted spending so much time to steer people
ohhh really.. great natural web site.. im my site go url =)
Good article,it is very remarkable.
thanks admn good article
thank you great web site..
[…] dead. Our logic would say Neokast has just gone out of business, but Cringely thinks otherwise. His conclusion? Neokast was bought by Microsoft under a veil of secrecy and nobody can talk about it. It was a […]
Hey there, I would love to thank you for taking the time to make such a wonderful article
shares start using a superb web site decent Gives gives wanted spending so much time to steer people
Thank you very much for having shared your encouraging ideas with us. There is nothing greater than finding out that others can connect. I am sure others will see eye to eye with you.
Thank you very nice place to implement for Happy
PregnancyMiracle…
[…]I, Cringely » Blog Archive » The Neokast Mystery – Cringely on technology[…]…
Due to this blog, I have finally found some motivation t do something creative.
I would love to use some experts of this for a report I am doing I hope that would be okay.
Please keep on sharing such texts as this is a spezial webblog to find on the internet! Im always going to find on the internet for storys which will help me very much!! Marsha Prebish
More people need to read this and understand this aspect of the story. I cant believe you’re not more popular.
motocourier
[…]we came across a cool web-site that you just may get pleasure from. Take a look in the event you want[…]
android cells
[…]Sites of interest we’ve a link to[…]
naples pet sitter
[…]Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a couple of unrelated data, nevertheless truly really worth taking a look, whoa did 1 understand about Mid East has got a lot more problerms at the same time […]
Extraenergie
[…]Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a few unrelated information, nevertheless definitely really worth taking a search, whoa did 1 study about Mid East has got much more problerms too […]
follow me
[…]usually posts some incredibly interesting stuff like this. If you?re new to this site[…]
www
[…]usually posts some incredibly intriguing stuff like this. If you are new to this site[…]
Green Smoke reviews
[…]Here are several of the websites we advise for our visitors[…]
Diet plan to reduce weight
[…]usually posts some very intriguing stuff like this. If you?re new to this site[…]
enlevement epave gratuit
[…]here are some hyperlinks to web pages that we link to since we feel they may be really worth visiting[…]
silver jewellery supplies
[…]here are some links to sites that we link to simply because we believe they’re worth visiting[…]
male strippers melbourne
[…]although internet sites we backlink to beneath are considerably not related to ours, we feel they’re essentially really worth a go through, so possess a look[…]
Kosmetik online shop
[…]one of our visitors not long ago recommended the following website[…]
mobile apps
[…]one of our visitors lately suggested the following website[…]
garage door repair
[…]although web-sites we backlink to beneath are considerably not associated to ours, we really feel they are truly really worth a go through, so have a look[…]
poncelet or poncelet brian
[…]we came across a cool web site that you just could possibly delight in. Take a look for those who want[…]
acoustic entertainment perth
[…]that could be the finish of this write-up. Here youll come across some sites that we assume you will appreciate, just click the hyperlinks over[…]
tempurpedic cloud luxe mattress
[…]we came across a cool internet site which you may possibly delight in. Take a look in case you want[…]