I obviously hit a nerve (probably several) with my column on Parrot Secrets. Some of this was expected. The idea of making so much money from an inexpensive web site would appeal to a lot of people, I knew. And I felt good about sharing the story after sitting on it for five years for just that reason. But I wasn’t at all expecting the outrage that some readers felt over the owner of Parrot Secrets not being the nice blonde lady in the picture but a young Indian man who doesn’t even own a parrot. People were pissed and yes, it probably says something about me that I still can’t really understand why they were pissed.
But, as always, I have a theory.
When I was a teacher 26 years ago I worked with a colleague who graded on the basis of improvement and perceived effort while I graded strictly on the final product – the paper or the test – not on how I felt about the student.
We discussed this a lot and my colleague, who still teaches in the San Francisco Bay Area, though no longer at Stanford University where we both worked at the time, felt that she was rewarding hard work, which she saw as far more important than talent. I thought that was crazy. While it may have made some sense to give a student the benefit of the doubt if they showed special initiative and improvement over time if that consideration meant, say, half a grade, I just couldn’t allow the other side, which would have been to grade down the student who just finds that work easy.
Yes, he missed class last week and yes, he may have arrived in class with a hangover, but did you read that paper? The kid’s a genius!
I feel genius should be rewarded.
In retrospect I have to admit that my colleague WAS, herself, a very hard worker and not in any sense a natural while I may have had a hint of a hangover about me, too.
So each of us may have been favoring our own kind.
I think this relates very much to the story of Parrot Secrets. You see what matters to me is not whether Nathalie or Kumar owns the company or even owns a parrot, but that the information provided by Parrot Secrets is useful and customers generally find it to be worth their money. And it seemed to me that was very much the case.
But to some readers that was absolutely NOT the case. They weren’t going to accept Parrot Secrets from Kumar no matter how clever he was, ESPECIALLY if the guy didn’t even own a parrot. They were offended, outraged, betrayed.
Yet I wonder how many web sites, even if they have a Nathalie working there, actually use her picture. While I HAVE seen pictures and video of Orville Redenbacher of popcorn fame and Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken was definitely the real thing, I don’t think Wendy of Wendy’s Restaurants ever appeared in an ad, and Colonel Sanders in his later years absolutely hated what PepsiCo was doing with what had been his restaurant chain.
So is it better to use a real founder in your ads if the founder is lying?
Most web sites don’t use pictures of people they actually know because real people don’t look that good and stock photos are cheaper. Yes, the GoDaddy girl works for GoDaddy, but she doesn’t work AT GoDaddy.
At heart here is truth in advertising, which is s sticky subject for a global network without end-to-end standards of almost any sort. But where truth in advertising CAN be enforced, it always comes down to performance: in this case, is the information from Parrot Secrets useful for raising and training parrots? Based on the company’s commercial success, lack of consumer complaints (until I wrote about it) and the number of competitors who have essentially ripped-off Parrot Secrets material, I’d say it gets a passing grade on truth in advertising.
But that’s just me and I am apparently an unprincipled idiot, or so I am told.
Let’s take it from another angle. When I was in high school the line from the College Board was that SAT preparation wasn’t necessary. Their tests would give you the same grade whether you took a prep class or not. Looking back 40 years later it is fairly clear that was wrong – that prep courses like those pioneered by Stanley Kaplan CAN help and almost always do. I’ve confirmed this, by the way, with friends who later worked at the College Board.
Who is the bad guy here? The College Board explained later that they were trying to maintain a level playing field, which works up to a point, but when enough students are taking prep classes this policy starts to hurt people who are rejected from the right colleges for the wrong reasons.
Does Parrot Secrets hurt people? How? That’s MY measure.
Which brings me, of course, to bowling.
One winter back at the College of Wooster, in Wooster, Ohio, I took a bowling course that changed my life. P.E. courses were mandatory, and the only alternative that quarter, as I remember it, was a class in wrestling.
A dozen of us met in the bowling alley three times a week for ten weeks. The class was about evenly divided between men and women, and all we had to do was show up and bowl, handing in our score sheets at the end of each session to prove we’d been there. I remember bowling a 74 in that first game, but my scores quickly improved with practice. By the fourth week, I’d stabilized in the 140-150 range and didn’t improve much after that.
Four of us always bowled together: my roommate, two women of mystery (all women were women of mystery to me then), and me. My roommate, Bob Scranton, was a better bowler than I was, and his average settled in the 160-170 range at midterm. But the two women, who started out bowling scores in the 60s, improved steadily over the whole term, adding a few points each week to their averages, peaking in the tenth week at around 120.
When our grades appeared, the other Bob and I got Bs, and the women of mystery received As.
“Don’t you understand?” one of the women tried to explain. “They grade on improvement, so all we did was make sure that our scores got a little better each week, that’s all.”
No wonder they turned the Stanford University bowling alley into a computer room.
I learned an important lesson that day; success in a large organization, whether it’s a university or IBM, is generally based on appearance, not reality. It is understanding the system and then working within it that really counts, not bowling scores or body bags.
In the world of high-tech start-ups, there is no system, there are no hard and fast rules, and all that counts is the end product.
The high-tech start-up bowling league would allow genetically-engineered bowlers, superconducting bowling balls, tactical nuclear weapons—anything to help your score or hurt the other guy’s.
Anything goes, and that’s what makes the start-up so much fun.
But evidently only I see it that way. You probably know better.
Bob –
I have never heard of anyone getting graded for improvement rather than performance, so I’m not sure about the distinction you raise. I am from Australia, so maybe it’s an American thing.
I think what got up people’s noses was that the website seemed like a trick which was successfull only in that it made money.
In that way the distinction is as old as the hills. Wall street bankers – getting rich by getting paid big before the chickens come home to roost – bad. The Wright Brothers getting rich from inventing aircraft – good.
Simon,
I have been graded on improvement in a university setting. I was an electrical engineering major, and one of my core classes was freehand drawing. The idea was to teach engineers the rudiments of drawing so they could quickly sketch out visual representations of their ideas. At the beginning of the semester, you drew a self portrait, a picture of an inanimate object, and a sketch of an outdoor scene. At the end of the semester, you drew a self-portrait, an inanimate object, and a sketch of an outdoor scene. I worked *very* hard on my initial drawings. I wasn’t very good, and I did improve over the semester, but if I’d known how important my *improvement* over the semester would be to my final grade, I’d have turned in much crummier drawings for the first round.
I agree that what annoys people about the Parrot Secrets site is that it isn’t what it claims to be. It isn’t a site started by a woman who had learned the hard way how to care for her parrot. It was started by an entrepreneur who paid a freelance writer to cobble the combined nuggets of wisdom from several other books into one e-book. It makes no difference to those people that the resulting e-book is worth every penny to people who need it. It only matters that the owner of the site is misleading customers.
What Bob has failed to grasp is that we’re seeing the flip-side of something I learned when I worked in sales (and which the entrepreneur understood all too well): People buy from people they like, and conversely, they don’t buy from people they don’t like. People would much rather buy their distilled parrot knowledge from a nice parrot owner named Nathalie than from a nice young man named Kumar who lives in India and doesn’t own a parrot. Sure, if they got to actually know Kumar, they might come to like him more than the bogus Nathalie persona, but Kumar knows that customers make their buying decisions quickly, and he can’t use the force of his in-person charisma to sell to strangers over the Internet at 3:00 am when he’s asleep, so he created a persona that he knew would appeal to his target market.
Is that dishonest? Yes. Is it worse than most of the dishonest tactics that salespeople use to close sales every day? No. Is it a shrewd business decision? Absolutely. Was it wise to share his secret with a journalist who’d eventually out him five years later? Probably not.
I think there is some jingoistic/racial outrage as well. It may be viewed that “most” North Americans and Northern Europeans play by the rules. The rest of the world (Asia, India, Russia,…) is dog-eat-dog and sees us as suckers that deserve to get swindled.
I’ll still throw my lot in with those that see this guy as being shady.
Maybe we need a Better Business Bureau Firefox add-on filter?
Well Ron it rather depends on what you think you’re buying doesn’t it?
You think you’re buying advice from the person on the website, who owns a Parrot, about Parrots. If that’s what you think you’re buying – you’ve been stiffed. It isn’t the person shown on the website, and the advice comes from someone who’s never owned a parrot!
Bob thinks you’re buying good advice about parrots. Bob thinks this is a good deal.
So what’s reasonable? Well I can see where you’re coming from, that picture is there for a reason, and it’s highly suggestive that it shows the person giving the advice. Neither of these things are true. As to the owning a parrot thing, well does it say they own a parrot? I agree that’s a reasonable assumption, but it happens to be flat out wrong. Is that deceptive? Probably not. So we have one clear deception, and one that’s more in the class: “well I thought they’d at least own a parrot!”.
Is this common? Yes, absolutely: you really think all those people in the TV ads work for the company? So when you ring up, you think you might actually talk to the pretty blonde telephone operator with the perfect teeth? Come on! Now if you were actually going to meet the person for some reason (maybe a medical procedure) I’d expect them to be the person in the picture, but otherwise, I don’t. Is this different for a website? Maybe, I can understand why you’d think so, but I can’t extend that to expecting “Parrot Secrets” to think that way. So I see no real foul here.
So what about owning a parrot? Well, I guess “Parrot Secrets” doesn’t claim to own a parrot. Again I see where you’re coming from, but is the information worth less because it was researched rather than gained first hand? Here I’m going to be a little more provocative. I think it might actually be worth MORE. If I have a parrot and I find some fact about the care of MY parrot, is that true for OTHER parrots? Is my parrot typical of all parrots? Now researching is all about collecting data from multiple sources and shifting and refining that data to find the truth. Assuming “Parrot Secrets” do a good job at that (and it seems they are) then I’d contend this might be BETTER than experience with any particular parrot. Now clearly a combination of research, and ownership of multiple parrots would be better still – but we’re asking a bit much.
So I’m willing to side with Bob on this one, with you I roll my eyes and say: “Boy do I feel stupid, I thought it was that woman, and the guy doesn’t even own a parrot!” But the information was still good, so I’m not mad. Or am I? I think part of this is down to a very human reaction that runs like this: “If THAT guy who doesn’t even own a parrot can find this stuff out, why can’t I? Why did I pay him when I could have found the exact same thing myself?” Well I understand that reaction, but you still don’t know how much work this guy did to get this information, to verify it, to make sure he was giving you the right answer. In short, just because this guy isn’t that woman in the picture, and doesn’t own a parrot, doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about what he does.
You just unlocked the secret of good grades in college level liberal arts classes. As was handed down to me by the Jesuit priests who taught in my high school, many classes (esp. liberal arts classes) have subjective grades. When a class is taught in a subjective manner (and is not blind graded), you play into the system.
Professors want to believe that they make a difference. If you reinforce this perception, the professor feels good about herself. She feels proud that she was successful in making you a better writer, critical thinker, etc. She is much more likely to give you a better grade.
So the magic key taught by the Jesuits was to turn in a first draft for your first assignment. For each subsequent assignment, increase the number of drafts by 1. So, for the fourth paper, you would produce four drafts. Each paper will likely be better than the preceding one. You build progress into your method.
It worked quite well for me in college. However, this trick has been completely useless to me in my professional career.
I suspect most of those outraged by Parrot Secrets are outraged for the same reason I am: someone else thought of it and not me.
Hey Bob
Care to address last week’s comments by Nick S and NancyRichards.org?
I myself don’t care if ParrotSecrets founder has ever owned a parrot, but it definitely matters that he’s a freaking thief. Dont you think?
I second this comment.
Hey Bob, I mean Mark, what does your wink-wink “apology” have to do with the fact that you praised a method used by a guy whose methods are apparently immoral, unethical and illegal?
I’ve been reading you since the early days of Infoworld. Time to stop.
I took a quick scan at ‘nancyrichards.org’ and, well it ‘sounds’ like one disgruntled buyer that rambles on, but in the end contradicts themselves. To paraphrase:
“Sumantra Roy was a well respected Search Engine Optimization specialist in 2002. ”
-To incriminate someone based on their past behavior, it should probably point out a history of fraud, not success.
“You have a 120 day money back guarantee… You think the refund will come?…We DID get our money back, after writing the letter and raising a fuss…”
-So they did get a refund. OK. This doesn’t prove or support their claim to a scam.
“Will the BBB does anything for you? So far not… The database of the LA Better Business Buro (www.labbb.org) is hard to search…”
-The BBB is setup and has a proven track record to assist in matters of better business and customer relations. The fact that the owner of nancyrichards.org has the opinion of it being hard to search doesn’t lend credit to themselves (but may indicate how retarded they themselves are).
“Requesting a refund through Paypal alone did not work.”
-As much as I disliked PayPal in its early days, I’ve now come to rely upon it as a trusted community that works. There are more and more trustworthy PayPal partners then not. And those that do commit fraud do not last. I’m more likely to trust PayPal partners then I would ‘nancyrichards.org’ by hard, actual and very real numbers.
“Our goal is to expose the truth behind the scamming of Sumantra Roy
and put an end to the scamming by his sites.”
-Doesn’t sound like they are doing a very good job. At all.
Innocence. There is no system to verify anything that you read on nancyrichards.org – “Nancy” and all of the testimonials written on “her” website could be just as phoney as anything else. Welcome to the internet. My name is not Janice, and I am not a woman either…you couldn’t even trust his post.
Two comments:
I suspect that a lot of the outrage has to do with revelation. You’ve pulled the curtain away from a world a lot of people don’t understand and they’re not comfortable seeing the wizard. Holds true for most fields I suspect. Your doctor’s probably prescribing that medication to you because the pharmaceutical rep took him on a nice golf trip. Another closer example is the direct response and infomercial business. Those late night programs and commercials are very carefully set, cast and scripted to appear low budget, disarming and maybe even a bit naïve when they’re actually none of the above.
I have a friend who’s a relatively successful model, repped by a big agency, has been for a long time. You’ve likely seen his image. Anyway, a couple years back he got a gig as the spokesman for a large consumer brand. Not because he had anything to do with the brand, was an expert on the field or worked for the company, rather because he had the look they wanted as the face of their brand. The interesting thing is that he had to sign an affidavit stating that he had used the product and did recommend it. 😉
1.)The people outraged by “the truth” about Parrot Secrets are what I call rubes – these are the same people who sit up and bark their heads off when the MSM reports about AIG executive bonuses (when they should really be more outraged about AIG using the federal bailout money they received to pay off the investment banks in full of their failed derivative bets – tens of millions for bonuses and tens of billions for bets). One of the earliest mantras about internet commerce was “buyer beware”. If one is too lazy to do research before doing business with what is essentially an upgrade over the old mail order businesses from the back of magazines and the classifieds in the tabloids, then that’s your own lookout. And frankly, I’m guessing ninety-nine percent of the complainers aren’t even parrot owners (that would be a very astounding co-incindence if a high percentage of I,Cringely subscribers and readers were in fact parrot owners).
2.)My only quibble is that I find it a little disingenuous to compare the ad campaigns using the icons or images of successful brands to that “Natalie” in the sense, that Natalie is represented as a real person satisfied with product, whereas, for the past eighty years, unless you were a gullible simple rube, orMilo Bloom from the comic strip Bloom County, everyone understood Betty Crocker wasn’t real, Joe Isuzu wasn’t real, Col Sanders, who was real enough and protected his good image and original product until he died, is little more than a cartoon logo for a multi-brand fast food franchise conglomerate. Natalie is more like many of the fake testimonials for millions of small mail-order businesses, get rich quick schemes, diploma schools, sea monkey advertisements and on and on, that have been around since the 1920’s by my reckoning. The reason I don’t condemn Cringely on describing this scheme, is the business model CAN be used for legitimate way for thousands to generate income for themselves.
Bob, as long as you get NerdTV 2 of the ground you can say anything you like about anything you want. As a marketer what I enjoyed most about the Parrot Secrets story was the idea, the research, the customer focus, the assessment and use of external resources to achieve the final product and the simultaneous simplicity and sophistication of execution. And for God’s sakes, parrot owners loved it. Let he who is without parrot not cast the first stone. I’m a cat lover actually, but so it goes.
I wasn’t offended by parrot boy, but I did think you’re being a little naive to believe he’s making the kind of money you computed month in and month out for all these years. Most entrepreneurs I know are given to a little poetic license when describing their enterprises to begin with, and even if he did tap into some pent up parrot angst I dare say that if there were sustainable big bucks in that market there would be a 100 more sites hawking Parrot books. (Google “improve your golf game” to see what real demand will spawn in the way of crap sites)
As for the Parrot outrage, it reminds me a bit of the hysteria over the James Frey book “A Million Little Pieces”. I didn’t read it, but I found it a little amusing that so long as the reader believed it was true it was this incredibly inspirational story, but the minute it was exposed as fiction it was crap. If you read a book and were moved by the story who cares? A good story is a good story. Then again I’m a born cynic and pretty skeptical about what anyone claims, particularly if they’re going out of there way to tell me.
Hey Bob, how about a PREVIEW button for the comments?
The guy doesn’t have a parrot. So what? If you got some sort of disease, would you only choose a doctor who had that same disease, or would you rather pick the person who researched and carefully studied it?
Good thing some people would choose the former: more room for us with real specialists!
Some fields do require direct expertise even for giving advice (I do hope that plane pilots are taught by former pilots), but I really don’t think “parrot care” is one of them.
[…] Cringely, after a long and rambling but still entertaining essay, finally imparts some wisdom. […]
That’s not why I didn’t like the Parrot story. I didn’t believe the numbers. For 3 reasons.
1. It looked like you computed the sales from day 1 with no ramp up.
2. I saw an offer for 1/2 off on the site and suspect that most of the sales were made at that level and you computed them at full price
3. I googled a couple parrot searches. His site didn’t come up in the top page in any and in some not in the first few pages (I stopped looking then as any parrot owner would after finding so much free inf)
4 (Bonus) his paid ad never showed up.
SO after seeing what at best was a whole lot of spin in the numbers I concluded the rest of the story was probably bogus too. Either you or us got the feathers pulled over our eyes.
You must not have looked very hard. Googling ‘parrot’ will show his ad. Further, Googling ‘parrot training’ will show his website in the top 10. According to Google, over 4,000 people search for ‘parrot training’ in a given month which would generate nice organic traffic for his site. Add to that the traffic he is likely generating from other forms of advertising (Google ad words, ezine articles, forum posts, whatever), and it is easy to see how he could get 20-30k visitors per month. Assume the site only converts 2% of the visitors to buyers, at an average selling price of $50 (you’ll note on their website they sell four ebooks totally over $100). That would result in 30000*.02*50*12 = $360,000 / year in revenue. These are not hard numbers to believe.
Also agree with John about the dubious figures. I googled this guy a few times on parrott related searches and he didn’t really come up high. So I have to wonder where all that money’s coming from.
Maybe from people who know how to spell parrot?
Simon, if that’s how you spell “parrot” then there’s little wonder your searches didn’t work.
The ironic flip side is that one could do better selling “parrott secrets” to a less-educated audience by being in the top-10 results for “parrott” than one would for being in the second-10 results for “parrot.”
> I don’t think Wendy of Wendy’s Restaurants ever appeared in an ad
Dave Thomas was the founder of Wendy’s and appeared in ads for years until his death in 2002. The restaurants were _named_ after his daughter, which he was quite public about.
bad example.
Darcy,
Wendy’s of the Wendy’s fast food chain never showed in any of the ads. Bob was right.
Whether Dave Thomas did was not the point he was making. Wendy, the red-headed, pony-tailed figure was their mascot, but Dave’s daughter, Wendy, was never in a promotional spot for Wendy’s.
Mark,
She (or an actress pretending to be her) did show briefly. She was the redhead telling her dad where to put the new sign … guess it just didn’t go over as well as Dave did.
Mark,
Bob was making the analogy about company founders/leaders, not company mascots. Wendy not appearing in ads is like saying a picture of a parrot was never used on Parrot Secrets. Not the same thing.
Although Wendy’s is an odd example in that it is one of the only companies who did not use the company mascot (they do now, in a limited way, but Dave Thomas did not want her used since it was based on his daughter).
It’s the outcome that matters.
15 years ago I was involved with NewTek, makers of the Video Toaster. A woman reported to me who was young and inexperienced, but a go-getter and someone who really worked hard to improve. She ran order administration which reported to me.
Unfortunately the numbers she reported daily and weekly (order volume; shipments; etc.) were not accurate and this caused us no end of problems in forecasting production and so forth.
Part of the problem was systemic (startups have notoriously poor ERP systems) but could’ve been overcome with a little more effort. When we talked about this at her performance review and that this was the primary reason for a good but modest review, she dissolved into tears exclaiming, “But I come in every Saturday! I work nights sometimes! I’m constantly striving to be a friend to our resellers.”
While the “Dad” in me wanted to reach out and tell her it was OK…instead I drew an analogy to the developers of the Video Toaster software, “You know all those guys and they work nights, Saturdays *and* Sundays, and sometimes sleep on the sofas in their offices. But what matters to the *customer* who buys a Video Toaster is that the code works and is as bug-free as possible. What if a customer were to call in after we ship 2.0 and we told them that yes, the code didn’t work, but our programmers worked their butts off before we shipped it?”
She got it.
As a watcher, reader, and admirer since “Nerds” was first broadcast, I’ll give Bob a leash long enough to re-train a parrot OR re-train a few knee-jerk, believe-the-last-thing-I-read-so-I-can-get-outraged-about-SOMETHING hypocrites. Reading through the comments from last week, I find three sad reflections of our Internet and broader culture:
1) That the anonymous “NancyRichards.org” poster (and others) could cast such dispersions about Bob in part due to his nom de plume … as if a literary pen name (as opposed to just another anonymous alias) represented some kind of a deception. So you want to impugn Mark Twain now? There’s no more reason to believe whomever is behind NancyRichards.org (and checkout THEIR domain registration factory on WHOIS) than any other online snivelers who hide behind their presumed anonymity. Come out, come out, whoever you are, NancyRichards.org NancyRichards.org.
2) That so many are so quick to pounce on and magnify individual mistakes, indiscretions, misjudgments, etc., absent any context of the bigger picture. Of all the slams at Bob in the Wiki entry or articles linked from the various comments, the most serious from my reading was the charge about the claim to have a Ph.D. But even so, without understanding the background and context of what actually happened, I can where one person’s “misunderstanding” translates to someone else’s “lie”. Even assuming the worst, that doesn’t make a difference to me given the body of Bob’s work over the years. I think his documentation of the history of the PC and the Internet is a great service to us all as a reminder that all history is made by individuals who are driven by all the basic human motivations, needs, and foibles.
3) Unfortunately, the gist of this “Bowling” commentary is accurate … our culture, and most of our public discourse, is driven by appearance, image, impression, and less and less by relevant fact. Look at the current uproar and outrage over the AIG bonuses … look at how much heat the Big Three CEOs got when they flew their corporate jets to DC for congressional testimony … look at how much importance we put on PR and spin and labels and words and symbols … Bob’s right: if you’re going to get outraged about Nathalie Roberts …. have a seat at the bar in Casablanca and be “shocked, shocked” that gambling is going on upstairs.
People want to feel good when they spend money. They want to be bullshitted, they have to be bullshitted or they’d never spend any money. How else do you explain paying for TV and still watching commercials?
Feeling good about spending your money is what it’s about, and for whatever reason Americans love to be bullshitted into feeling good about spending money.
My sister was convinced for many years that the real estate agent who sold them their house really and truly cared about her and her husband. Long story short, he cut his commission in half so they could afford to buy a house and told them it was because they were such nice people and he felt like he made new friends. The reality is, the house wasn’t selling, the market was slow and the agent needed a sale. 1.5% of something is better than 3% of nothing. But they felt really good about this incredibly nice guy who they recommended to everyone. It’s all bullshit, but everyone got what they wanted and felt good about it.
Everyone wants to believe that the world doesn’t have prejudices but everyone does. People trust some sources of information more than others. In this case, people will trust a middle aged woman who had a bird for 15 years, more than a 20 year old computer programmer who doesn’t. Same information but people will always choose the bird lady over the geek when it comes to parrot advice, conversely they will always trust him over her when it comes to setting up a home network. It’s what we’ve been taught to expect.
People need to have something to base their decisions on, even if it’s bullshit.
Madison Avenue knows this and uses it everyday, just turn on the TV, millions of spokes people, figure heads and made up characters to get you to buy everything and anything.
Proof you want to be bullshitted, everyone who has a problem with the parrot lady is upset because they have to face the reality that they are being bullshitted everyday and they don’t want to know the truth. They would rather believe in her, Aunt Jemima, Chef Boyardee, Santa Clause and every other imagined being that brings you comfort with your choices in life.
Actually, Chef Boyardee was real. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Boiardi
Actually I don’t want to be bullshitted, I don’t own a television. I use adblock. I don’t consume simply to consume, I don’t buy shit I don’t need. I would move to a European country where they have real truth in advertising laws if I could.
I drive a prius, but I dont buy into the bullshit marketing that a prius is good for the environment. No car is now or ever will be “good for the environment”. A prius is just slightly less bad for the environment than most other cars. Biking is a much more environmentally friendly form of transportation.
It’s too bad we don’t have an Advertising Standards Authority here in the states. Marketing bullshit may make a few jerks rich, but it makes most of us poorer and is not a real benefit for society.
For another niche web site, check out http://www.mypetchicken.com. No tricks, just a great site for people who want to buy chickens and related items, including chicken gifts I hear that this site has made half a million dollars since it went up a couple of years ago!
The thing that I marvel at is that fishy sites like ParrotSecrets look alike. I would think that looking fishy would be counterproductive, but somehow that doesn’t seem to be the case. It’s as if they are specifically targeting people who can’t smell a rat, or actively deterring people who can. Perhaps they are signaling with their design “hey, if you are looking for legitimacy, move along; don’t linger here. This site is for suckers who don’t know better.”
IF ParrotSecrets is offering a legitimate, valuable product (and I don’t care enough to figure that out, and Mr. Cringely is certainly not qualified to assess the value of their product, and failure to find complaints is not an assessment of value), then they are hurting their bottom line with their sleazy marketing. I suspect that they have to resort to this type of marketing because their product is over-priced schlock.
If you want to be in the over-priced schlock business, then Mr. Cringely is right in his assessment of ParrotSecrets. It’s good to know the yardstick that Cringely is using.
These websites, like infomercials you see on TV, look the way they do for a simple reason: it works. They are marketing to a specific audience who have specific biases and who believe specific things. This is not evil or underhanded: it’s marketing. Get off the high horse and take a look around, just because the way the product is marketed doesn’t appeal to you does not make it sleazy.
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/09/seven-tips-to-b.html
Titled “Seven tips to build for meaning” from Seth Godin’s blog. Tip # 7:
“It’s okay to be long, if you’re chunky. The great lesson of direct mail was that long letters always do better than short ones. That’s because once you’ve sold me, I’ll stop reading. But if I’m not sold and I get to the end, you lose. The web is infinitely expandable. So go ahead and tell your story.”
User Interface Engineering discovered that users are not adverse to scrolling, as long as the information is relevant and the scent of the information is there.
JIM,
DO YOU KNOW IF MR. CRINGLEY OWNS OR HAS EVER OWNED A PARROT?
Bob, maybe you don’t care about people lying to you. Well, with Pelosi, Obama, Barney Frank & company, maybe you’re inured to it.
But I hate it. If someone lies to me, such as by creating a fictitious persona and presenting it as real — which is not the same as a stage name or Betty Crocker, they were never presented as real — they have destroyed any trust they might have built.
If you can’t understand why people hate liars, then you do indeed have a problem. Maybe you are one.
I am nearly appalled that a high performer would be under-graded just because his/her progress was either rapid or immediate due to natural ability or genetics. It almost seems equivalent in my mind to being prejudiced. This is the hourly wage concept versus the payment per job concept…If I produce 10 of something in the time that it takes someone else to produce 20, I would hope that the other person gets paid more. If the situation was the reverse, I would quit, start my own business, charge slightly less that my original employer while still turning nearly a double profit, or even more deviously, charge significantly less than my original employer and put him out of business within a short time. I could even buy back his inventory and equipment at a discount during his liquidation. Is that immoral? Is that devious?
Bob,
I don’t understand where all this principle comes from on the internet. It’s a scourge that’s far more prevalent in the online world than in the real one. In real life, we live in a free market, where success, regardless as to how it is obtained is valued. Why does the entire world change the minute your success is web based? I don’t get it. Great articles both though, I’ve learned more from them lately than I usually do from blogs.
The post by -dan (posted on March 19, 2009 at 6:04 am) has it exactly right. Most people want their illusions and preconceptions to be true. They want to believe the lie because they can’t understand the truth. They want their stereotypes to be correct because otherwise it means they have prejudged many people incorrectly. Most people wouldn’t think someone who looks like this http://awards.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1108679&srt=all&aw=140&ao=AMTURING really knows more about computers than the vast majority of teens out there. It just doesn’t fit their preconceived version of what the world should be like. They can’t understand how a women that age knows anything at all about computers little alone has been working in the field for over 30 years.
Bottom line is most people like their illusions and when you went and tore one of them down they got angry. The lie was primarily created by themselves and exposing that is much worse than if someone else lied to them because then it wouldn’t be there fault, but by doing what you did you exposed them as liars, albeit to themselves.
I find the use of a character to be fair marketing. The rub is the character speaking in the first person as if they are living and breathing. You don’t see Aunt Jemima or Betty Crocker speaking or writing to their customers in that fashion.
The biggest problem that people seem to be glossing over is that the Parrot Secrets Ebook is compiled from various sources which is in effect plagarism if it is not duly noted. Legitimate writers who have been used as sources will not get their due compensation or credit. This is where I feel the whole concept is flawed.
John
In bob’s heart of hearts he knows that the ebooks for sale on parrot secrets are probably mostly word for word ripoffs. He dances around that fact though by saying that the books were produced by an ghostwriter which makes it ok to sell stolen work for inflated prices by any means necessary.
I think I am going to start a blog called technologysecrets.com where I will copy bobs columns into ebook format and sell them. I will also create fake testimonials from bob cringely about how informative the books are and how much he enjoyed purchasing them. Then I will move on and create nerdsecrets.com where I will sell videos about nerds to uninformed housewives.
Then I will create mortgagesecrets.com where I will allow users to pay me a fee for financial advice while I use an automated perl script to ferry user information and advice between a handful of home-account.com accounts. Bob will marvel at how I can make tons of cash, and provide a useful service with virtually zero overhead.
I too was surprised by the outrage against Parrot Secrets.
Over the years I have come to appreciate businesses who value their customers, who provide a good service for a good price, and who care about quality. I would prefer to do business with local firms. I try to help local firms do better and have a chance to get my orders. In the end it is the business owner who decides whether or not to run their business well.
The young man who started Parrot Secrets is a good businessman. He has provided his customers a good service at a good price. He does the things I value in a business. I have to respect him for his efforts and accomplishments.
Why was the Parrot Secrets service necessary? Why hasn’t there been good competition for the services Parrot Secrets provide? Far too often people try to do the least possible to run their business. They look for the quick, easy path. If you do not like Parrot Secrets, would you prefer to do business with a firm that doesn’t do as good a job?
In the end it is results that matter. A growing business, growing profits, happy customers is usually a good thing. By normal measures of a business, Parrot Secrets has done a good job. If you do not like the owner of Parrot Secrets, maybe you need to look deeper and figure out why this bothers you. Maybe you are objecting to the wrong things for the wrong reasons.
Everyday I drive past a failing car dealer. The economy is hitting them very hard. This dealer has sold low quality (new) cars for years. They have treated their customers poorly. Working with their service department is a nightmare. They grossly overcharge for their work and don’t stand behind it. It was an ownership, management decision to run this business this way. The marketplace is now giving them feedback, loud and clear. The unfortunate problem is dozen’s of people have lost their jobs and dozens more will lose their jobs in the coming months. By the end of the year I expect we’ll have some new commercial real estate available for redevelopment. Is this right?
In my book a good owner, a good manager who runs a business well and provides secure jobs to others is something of value.
Someone once said there are two types of people in the world; “politicians” and “engineers”.
“Politicians” care more how things look than how they are.
“Engineers” care how things are more than how they look.
It’s the “politicians” that are pissed at Parrot Secrets. To them it matters more that the site owner is insincere than competent. To them intentions matter more than outcomes (which explains so much of what goes on in government!)
The “engineers” only care about competence. The site gives people useful information and makes lots of money. To “engineers” that’s cool. Not iPhone cool, but still cool.
That’s not the case at all. I am *primarily* concerned with competence. That is the whole point of my comment below. Without knowing the actual background and experience of the author, there is no way to assess beforehand whether the information given is likely to be useful or not. And in animal training “useful” is more than just “does it work?” and certainly more than “can it be marketed and make money?” There is a whole compenent concerned with ethical and humane treatment, long term effects, unintended consequences, etc. I don’t expect an internet marketer to understand these things, or to be able to weed through the old and new information and misinformation out there in books and magazines. Just because something is in print doesn’t make it true. And it is obvious to anyone who does have knowledge of parrot training that the author of this web site did not discriminate based on scientific validity.
L L,
My apologies for being blunt; however, what point you are making? Is competence your primary concern with respect to factual information provided or is it “sincere intentions.” My take is that you redefine competence to maximize virtuous qualities such as “ethical and humane treatment, long term effects, unintended consequences” while minimizing the importance of actual intended outcome.
My take- a “politician” masquerading as an “engineer”.
DAN,
NICE CONCISE ANALOGY THAT SUMS UP THE POINT-COUNTERPOINT FLOW OF THIS THREAD.
I’ve been thinking about this is a little since your last article, and I still think you miss the issue somewhat in this article too – and it’s really an ethical question as well as a matter of “truth in advertising” – something the law requires, at least in the U.S (even if that truth is only a small bit – but this is why you get all those disclaimers, etc. in the ads and also why the stores have to give you the price in the ad during the ad period).
The thing with the Parrot Secrets is that the guy did not have the claimed expertise with parrots. It doesn’t matter how accurate his information is – he simply doesn’t have the expertise to make that claim – so there is false advertising going on.
And Betty Crocker, like KFC’s Colonel Sanders and Orville Redenbacher, were backed up by real people with real experience in their fields, or at least they portrayed their experience levels accurately. That’s what Parrot Secrets needs to do – instead of claiming to have 12 years experience when in fact they have only been in business for a little over 5 years and only in the subject for a little longer than that, they should just own up to the actual knowledge level they have – for example, they could advertise on the combined knowledge level of their sources or simply say they are a company with 5-6 years in the subject looking to put together the resources for a specialized community. There’s really not that much to it, and they could easily do it.
Honestly, I have no problem with the photo/person thing – he wants to use a picture of another person (and artists drawing, whatever) as the face for the company – fine. But at least own up to the actual knowledge of the company. You can’t mis-represent – and by doing so he’s inviting a lawsuit when someone does something per his site’s advise and kills their parrot.
BTW, I’m all for people doing as you suggested in your previous article; however, in doing so they need to accurately represent themselves and their company. It’s not just good morals; it’s good ethics; and at least in the U.S., though likely many countries in Europe too, it’s the law.
It’s our way of dealing with the Snake Oil vendors out there – and there’s a lot of them even today. Companies that have good products, good information, etc. have nothing to fear about truth in advertising and accurately representing themselves – in fact, they have everything to gain by it.
I found your original article very informative, though I don’t share your enthusiasm for the product or its marketing technique. What you seem to be assuming is that if a marketing campaign succeeds in selling a product, that product must be a useful, quality item. The mish-mash of information on the ParrotSecrets site is not high quality by any standards of parrot training, and this is where the problem lies. The “teaser” information alone on the site is rife with misinformation and training practices that are completely outdated and incompatible with current behavioral science. Parrots are wild animals that require considerable knowledge to be cared for properly. Very often they are not, and the result is many thousands of highly intelligent, but poorly socialized and unwanted birds — who have life spans of up to 50-100 years.
Marketing misinformation that is not up to date on the most current behavioral science is not just a money making scam, it hurts those it is purporting to help. It might not be a big issue if the product being sold is a useless piece of exercise equipment, but for training a difficult exotic animal species it very much does matter who is behind the information.
Please see this position statement on marketing of parrot training information by Barbara Heidenreich, former President of the International Association of Avian Trainers and Educators for more on this subject.
https://www.goodbirdinc.com/help-Internet_Marketing_Position_Statement.html
Why does this talk about rewarding improvement rather than talent keep coming up ever since I started reading “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. The book is far longer than it needs to be, but it gets a very clear point across: The core of any society is productive industrialists and scientists, and everyone else who wants a piece of that action is just a looter, a leech. When the leeches get to write the rules, as they do in many liberal colleges, then people step into the (current) real world and fall down hard. In really bad situations, those who don’t fall down go into politics which steeps the rules against the innovative. Look at the current patent system in the US and you’ll understand: no-brainer patents get issued and then anyone with any kind of successful idea is bombarded with patent violation lawsuits that demand that the looters be paid off, even though they didn’t do any real work.
Something Ayn Rand didn’t have that we do is massively increased communication. That is, the Internet. Those of like mind WILL get together and collaborate and build defenses. Oddly enough, many people claim that Richard Stallman is a socialist, but he is firmly against software patents. Look what software patents has brought us: a socialist system where everyone deserves to have a piece of the action, when really it is just people using their freedom as a cover for evil.
If you haven’t read “Atlas Shrugged,” and you aren’t feeling too depressed, then go read it. This book was written in 1957 and still applies today in ways you cannot possibly imagine. Of course, if you are on the side of the professor Bob mentions, then you will probably not be mature enough to understand the point of the book.
Bob,
Help me with your logic, please. How did you form a generalization about “large organizations” from one class in bowling?
“life is one massive PR campaign in which you get ahead by pretending to listen, and by saying whatever people want to hear, even if you’re lying.”
But maybe you should stop because before you know it,It’s 2004 and you’re a bank exec named Berny Madoff lobying the SEC for net capital rules to be eliminated so that your Banks ponzie scheme can go on for another four years.
“The high-tech start-up bowling league would allow genetically-engineered bowlers, superconducting bowling balls, tactical nuclear weapons—anything to help your score or hurt the other guy’s. Anything goes….”
The complete abandonment of ethics is what this statement seems to mean.
Who cares about the parrot and liberal arts grade inflation, following this statement leads to instability in society on a grand scale as any deviant jack ass can sink the boat we are all in if they try hard enough. This leads to economic collapse (like we have now), and war (like we have now).
Bob, are you pointing this out or advocating it?
Don’t forget about Peter Norton (Norton Utilities) – the picture found everywhere on their stuff was of an actor, not Peter Norton.
And Mavis Beacon (Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing) – it’s the photo of a woman who worked at the grocery store the guy who created the software used to buy his groceries. There is no Mavis Beacon, it’s made up.
Hi Bob,
I too, got a B in bolwing PE in college even though I showed up every day and aced the written tests. I just didn’t improve all that much. That was my only B that semester and ruined the best chance I had for making a 4.0. Contrast that to getting an A in weightlifting and running, which I hated and showed up with a hangover for the final one mile run.
I think the numbers are a little dubious. No way would I pay 79.95 for an ebook when I’m sure there is a lot of free info on the internet and also in books at the library.
Brian
Bob,
You’re not the only one who sees it that way. The real world grades based on performance, not improvement. The company that sells more widgets gets more money, regardless of how hard or easy the road to market dominance was. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naieve.
-Mark
In high school we had regular classes and honors classes. Most schools do this, but now they called it Advanced Placement, or A levels or whatever. Why do they do this? Why not put everyone in the same class and let the smart kids sail through? Part of formal education is teaching how to improve at something. It’s the old Teach a Man to Fish idea. I don’t know the point of teaching bowling in college, but do you really think the goal was to create good bowlers?
Let’s say you taught math, and Albert Einstein was in your class. He was of course, a genius in physics, but compared to the top mathematicians of his time, he wasn’t that good at math. Would your job as teacher be to tell him to give up, because he would never be the best in the world, or would you want to at least teach him how to improve, so eventually he could acquire the skill needed to complete General Relativity?
John, you may not be aware but enrollment in honors classes has gone down (with the exception of classes offering college credit). The reason is that smart kids know that an “A” is an “A”. It’s the grade that counts when going to college not the level of work involved. So if skating thru all your classes means that you have more time to involve yourself in volunteer work or athletics then you’d be crazy to take an honors class and get passed over by MIT or Harvard by the kid that took the “regular” classes and was on the football team and worked at the old folks home and got straight “A”s.
Similarly if you are intend to get a postgraduate degree, your a fool to go to Harvard then go to you local state college for your doctorate. It’s far smarter to get your undergrad degree at the state college and get into the grad program at Harvard. The only thing that matters is where you do your last bit of schooling (not how hard or expensive the other years were).
As far as Einstein goes his teacher did the right thing and he failed his algebra class. Had his teacher simply passed him along because he tried hard he probably would not have taken it again and gotten those principles down.
Bob, I’m kinda surprised you didn’t expect the backlash at parrot secrets. Your theory is absolutely correct. In America God forbid you are actually successful or smart. In the new liberal America it’s not how good you are but how hard it was for you to get where you are. I bet if you had told the story of how this poor Indian boy worked so hard that one of his fingers fell off and THEN he made parrot secrets, you’d have cut the whining in half. I say whining because the folks for whom things in life are not as easy as it is for others see that as unfair and rather than improve themselves they’d rather complain about it and get outraged over someone else’s success
Cringley:
Your analogy is faulty. A better analogy would be if the kid stole the material for his paper off the Internet. I would give him an F for cheating. However, you would give him an A because you believe that the ends justify the means.
People like you, with no sense of real right/wrong, are why the U.S. is so f’ing screwed up.
signed,
an ethical american
Isn’t there a difference between concocting a branding “personality” such as Betty Crocker or Uncle Ben, vs. a “person”? The latter is in effect giving false witness, as the purpose of the entity is to offer a testimonial of their own experience of the product.
That being said, Kumar has provided a service by culling and packaging the most useful texts from a no doubt large body of knowledge. To be completely honest he would call his service a “digest” and honor the legal copyrights of the respective authors/owners, and he would still be profitable. I admire his entrepreneurship and smarts, but he should be boiled in oil.
Kumar, time to start giving back.
Bob another fine article. Yes indeed there are courses that grade on perceived improvement. Examples from my life experience:
My high school typing class in Richmond IN was graded solely on improvement. The measure of improvement was similar to handicap day at the golf course. In the first week of the class on
“handicap day” you needed to take a powder. Myself and friend did so by crossing the Ohio line and having a 40 for lunch before typing class. Needless to say our performance was significantly impaired by our diet ;). We both were able to get a grade of “A”. It should be noted typing is one of the skills I actually use to this day.
The first calculus exam taken my freshmen year at Purdue University had an average score of 40. I was unfortunate enough to score a 98/100, dropped a sign on the last problem. The professor was forced to put the exam results on a “curve”, rewarding the vast majority who were underachievers.
The corporate equivalent of the this is called “success on the margin”. I learned of this from reading an article in the Wall Street Journal Employment Weekly post graduation from Purdue and looking for my first job. The premise of the article was that you only want to put enough effort into any project that is only marginally better then what is expected. If you exceeded this margin you could be pigeon holed into doing this task forever. Simpler explanation of “success on the margin” is given by this scenario:
A lawyer and used car salesman are lost in the woods when a bear attacks them. They begin to flee from the bear when the used car salesman says to the lawyer, “If we stop and pick up rocks and sticks we can defeat the bear”. The lawyer responds, “I do not care about the bear, I only care about running faster then you”.
Remember Olympics 2008? … Ussain Bolt slowing down towards the end in the finals.. he figured setting incremental records is more rewarding… financially…
How many records did Sergei Bubka break? Not sure if there is an element of planning in there.
Regarding being graded on performance vs. improvement, this was commonly done in US Physical Education (aka gym) classes. I figured that this was due to the differences in natural athletic ability, i.e. aptitude in athletics. But I always wondered about this – don’t people have also naturally have differences in aptitude in math, science, or the humanities? The only thing I could think of is that the individual differences in aptitude in athletics is MUCH greater than in other subjects. Consider the difference in strength between the largest/strongest male and smallest female (or male for that matter) in a gym class. It could easily be 4-5 times as much! That smaller individual wouldn’t have a chance of making an ‘A’ if they were graded strictly on how much weight they could lift. Similarly, vast differences could apply to speed or skill in a particular sport. So I guess grading on improvement, attendance, and/or effort was deemed to be the only “fair” way.
The problem with parrotsecrets is a matter of trust. When “Nathalie Roberts” says, “I want to tell you a true story that’s on the edge of potentially scandalizing you…” she wants me to believe her. But if the marketing story is an outright lie, then why would I think the contents of the ebook are any better? I do NOT like being lied to at all. I try to focus on what IS true, not what appears to be true (there is a difference).
Guess I’ll only believe half of what you write from now on, Cringely. Or maybe I’ll drop you altogether.
Manipulation is not a dirty word
I still think you’re right Bob!
Bernie Madoff is a crook, this guy is just a really smart entrepreneur!
This story forwarded to me just today is another excellent example!
Young Chuck in Montana bought a horse from a farmer for $100. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next day he drove up and said, ‘Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the horse died.’
Chuck replied, ‘Well, then just give me my money back.’
The farmer said, ‘Can’t do that. I went and spent it already’
Chuck said, ‘Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse.’
The farmer asked, ‘What ya gonna do with him?
Chuck said, ‘I’m going to raffle him off.’
The farmer said, ‘You can’t raffle off a dead horse!’
Chuck said, ‘Sure I can, watch me. I just won’t tell any body he’s dead.’
A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, ‘What happened with that dead horse?’
Chuck said, ‘I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $998..’
The farmer said, ‘Didn’t anyone complain?’
Chuck said, ‘Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back.’
Chuck grew up and works now for the government. He was the one who figured out how to “bail us out.”
This guy Chuck. He IS a crook or he isn’t? You didn’t seem to make yourself very clear. In my book this guy is definitely a crook.. you know… like mister Madoff.
I interviewed with a company called resume rabbit in 2000. This is a site that copies your resume all around (which is really a bad idea though some people do want to try it). This was very early on so I would have been doing the programming, but at the time there were still dot.coms that paid alot so I passed. This company didn’t have any backing, but I’m sure they’ve made a fortune. The main guy was a marketing person and he had it figured how much he could get away with charging. His only problem was because of the dot.com boom he couldn’t get good programmers. (The programming was figuring how to enter data into all these various websites.) Of course, what happens is there’s dozens of sites like this now. Years ago this was certainly the way to go (my mistake) but I suspect now it would be harder. Google ads cost more and most of the ideas have been taken. There’s always a need for something new though. I’ve studied the history of media and I believe the difference between the internet and other media isn’t that people get stuck on a url, but the reverse. There’s always going to be new sites coming. I’m not so sure these are too useful but I don’t think it’s exactly a scam.
So I really want to agree with you here. I’m a startup guy through and through, Bob, and I come from a long line of entrepreneurs and small business owners. Over the years I’ve given a dozen or so copies of Accidental Empires away to new arrivals here in the SF Bay area. However, I think you’ve missed it again, in two ways.
First, now that you find that actual customers are unhappy, you don’t adjust your thinking one whit on the topic of Parrot Secrets. Instead, you spend a whole column on why people who disagreed with you are whiny and don’t care about actual success, just effort. However, you’re asking us to judge you not on the actual success of your column (e.g., including relevant facts, analyzing what’s really going on), but on your effort (sitting on the story for five years, trying to tell a story that people like).
Second, you’ve ignored several real, non-whiny reasons that the Parrot Secrets thing may be bad from the perspective of everybody but the guy who’s cashing the checks. Is he succeeding based on the merits of his product, or just his marketing? Is his level of deception really equivalent to Betty Crocker? Are customers receiving value in proportion to cost? Can his products compete on an open market like Amazon, and if so, why isn’t he also selling there? In starting his business, did he make the world’s economy a little better, or a little worse?
One of the reasons I’ve treasured your column over the years is that you’ve been a vigorous debunker of business bullshit, especially the kind of bullshit that makes it easy for people to cash fat checks while the consequences happen to others. (For example, your column on how short-sighted MBAs hollow out research departments is one I still forward to people occasionally.) Here, you seem to have fallen for exactly that kind of bullshit, and it pains me. I hope you find your smelling salts before the next column!
Bob,
When I heard your Parrot Secrets episode, I was left a little bafled. It sounded an awful lot like a plug, as if the Sham-Wow guy was on vacation that week and you stepped in. I was slightly surprised but not offended that it was run by a person in India – good for them if they can make a buck and provide something useful. The episode didn’t really seem to make a point though.
This week, I’m left with the same feeling – what was the point? You usually have very insightful and interesting things to say, but the last two weeks haven’t had much content. Here’s to hoping you’ll be back on track next week…
Wow, I have 5 start ups under my belt. I found nothing wrong with what the owner of ParrotSecrets was doing. In fact, I immediately started looking for areas where I could do the same thing.
OTOH, I am currently a teacher. I do not grade on improvement. OTOH, I have many students who are completely unaware of any other kind of grading. I have also noticed that *all* of my students who have been graded on “improvement” are non-white. IMHO grading on improvement is used as a way for racist teachers to advance students without having to teach them anything.
Grading on improvement should be punished with jail time.
Bob Pendleton
It seems like PBS had some editorial control over what was worth publishing. You had a great show. Your snobish attitude was always informational and entertaining. But now you have made a point of letting the reader know you are in a special class of intelligence which some of us might simply to compete with. To bad for us. Perhaps we can’t improve – either we got genious or this issue is just way to complex for us to understand and you, no longer an educator, are unwilling to inform and educate. There seems to be no reason to continue listening. Cheers and thanks for your earlier work.
I don’t care what business you are talking about, be it McDonalds, Shell, Coke, Chevy, whatever, it is all Marketing people sitting in meeting rooms trying to find ways of tricking you into buying their product. No different from what this “Parrot Secrets” Do you think for a moments when one of those ads on TV tells you they care about you more than their competition, they really mean it? This has been they way since snake oil was sold in the old west, and probably before. Do you think Peyton Manning really cares if you buy a Sony TV? He’s a paid spokesman for Sony. Why? Because someone who really knows what makes a TV good, an expert, won’t sell TV’s, but a likable celebrity will. It’s all Bullshits.
Sadly no matter how you put it. It(parrotsecrets) is still a scam. I could care less about if the lady was real. I care more about the fact that your promoting a scam.
Evan says it’s a scam. How is it a scam? The website provides a service, people pay for the service contractual obligations are fulfilled and everyone is happy. It could be labeled dishonest to say there is a Nathalie when there isn’t, but it’s not a scam. While you’re (not your) free to say it’s dishonest if you feel that way, it’s not illegal so you’re really just upset that somebody is doing well in a way you don’t personally approve of. THAT group is bigger than you know my friend… it’s a whole world of people you’re just not aware of.
I don’t understand the problem. Somebody is selling information – a non-refundable non-tangible. This is very common for content providers. The marketing campaign has fictitious representation. Well duh. I always thought those words were synonymous. The buyers are not being coerced through threats or bait and switch. The content may very well be useful – despite possibly free alternatives in the library, online forums, etc.
There are no victims here. Customers must do there due diligence.
I know I’ve read that story about the bowling class somewhere. Where was it published before?
— T
Bob mentions the story in his book Accidental Empires (UK edition) for essentially the same reasons. Geeks like myself are always astonished at the contextual limitations most people put upon their reality. I find intense irony in the strong likelihood that many complainants about Parrot Secrets also drink bottled water.
I am so surprised by the number of people claiming to be so betrayed by the parrot lady who doesn’t exist. Betty Crocker, no such person. Mr. Clean, no such person. The Maytag Man, not really a repairman. Should I go on? I am not going to stop buying dog treats becuase they say Scooby Doo dog treats and have pitcture of Scoob Doo on them. (Y’all know he’s fake, right? And he’s got some nerve to endorse dog cookies!) If the parrot information is legit, then you must acquit. Everyone wants a reason to be up in arms about something, as if there is some profit to accusing someone of wrong-doing.
Cringley, this is easily the worst article of yours that I’ve read.
There is no way you can relate that stupid teacher’s ridiculous grading system to the complaints people had in the parrot article. They’re not related. Not at all. Streeeeetch.
And, btw, Wendy’s is named after a real person, and while she didn’t appear in an add, she appears on the fucking gigantic plastic sign and in the damn logo. COME ON.
Everybody does it; therefore it’s acceptable? Poor, painfully poor. Moreover, you spread the argument like thin butter: little substance; lotta’ words. And, what’s with the bowling analogy? A crowd-pleasing, pseudointellectual post. Disappointing.
I love the parrotsecrets article.
It shows just how someone who is entrepeneurial, methodical and focused can create a business.
Do you think ANYONE you see on television hawking a product gives a rat fuck about the product their hawking? I mean, honestly, you care in the most cynical of ways: are you getting paid enough based on how this could effect your name positively or negatively? That’s the gig.
Who cares if the spokesmodel is real? Who cares if she “actually” gave the “reviews”? The kid cut and pasted some feedback, and created a persona.
I think hearing that a young kid from India is raking in some serious cash for a relatively “simple” idea has peoples’ brains on underload…
Cringely, ignore the trolls. Don’t even waste blog space to explain yourself, re-educate, or change someone elses feeble mind. If they truly understood the message, they would get their pencils pushing and figure out a way to make some of their own money.
I don’t have a problem with the idea, but I do have a problem with the website (my damn mouse wheel broke) — it looks like a typical “make $10,000 per week” site. I left the site with the impression that it was produced by a scam-artist.
If the guy really earns $400,000 per year, then why doesn’t he spend a little of that to build a more polished site? Doesn’t he want to earn even more money? Why doesn’t he use Google Adwords (he can certainly afford it)?
In other words, his current marketing strategy is typical of someone who earns $40,000 per year — the $400,000 figure sounds like baloney to me…
Correction: it is stated that he does use Adwords in the original article, but I cannot see the ad when entering parrot as a search term…
“why doesn’t he spend a little of that to build a more polished site” – I love how everyone hates these loooooong single page websites, all I hear is ewwww, yuck, amateur, etc – yet they consistently perform better than any other format.
No-one cares what the armchair experts think – just the people who pull their wallets out.
Do you *really* think that it’s just coincidence that people use this format – you think that NO-ONE has ever thought to test perhaps a different format. Pompous much?
Bob, if I were you, i’d just admit that i picked a really, really bad example for a productive business, but say that the original point still stands, that there’s still a ton of room for good, productive, and lucrative internet businesses.
You simply picked a bad example. Why’s your example bad?
– This company provides a poorer product and a higher price than something as simple as borrowing book from a library, or making friends with their local pet store bird expert
– This company is run by an experienced SEOer, which most bird book authors (think they) cannot afford. Furthermore, real bird experts won’t stoop to the ethical grey areas that this guy has, because they have reputations to uphold. This guy runs his bird site under scores of different names–to the average internet user, if parrot-book-secrets.com gets a bad review, they won’t figure that my-lovely-parrot-book.com is the same site.
– The majority of the earnings of this company come from rent-seeking activities, not the sort of economic productivity that helps the economy. Let me give you a hyperbolic example: Suppose there were two car makers, MEmotors, and Icringe. Let’s say MEmotors had a billion dollar advertising budget, and you spent nothing since Icringe does not believe in advertising (bunch o’ engineers). Now, everyone’s heard of MEmotors, and no one knows that Icringe exists. So I can charge a monopoly-level price, say twice of my actual costs on the car, because no one knows you exist. People are happy buying MEmotors cars at $100k, because no other cars exists as far as they know! Icringe sells a car for $20k at a small modest profit, but no one knows they exist. The result is that society pays too much for cars and wastes money on dancing television jingles. (This lasts for the short run, until Icringe figures out how to advertise…then in the long run, prices come down, but we’re still all wasting money on advertising). Advertising isn’t our economy’s savior, it’s one of its pitfalls.
There really are very good businesses out there selling online newsletters and ebooks. You simply chose about the worst possible example.
Oh yeah, and the bowling alley at Stanford didn’t become a computer room; the computer room is upstairs in Tresidder. If i recall correctly the bowling alley was next to the Coho, where the current Treehouse and the glass-walled fitness center are. Feel free to email me if you need a pair of eyes to review your posts, Cringely.
Paul Graham agrees with you on the “big company” versus “startup” mentality. As do I: being a founder in a small company myself, I’m sometimes a little shocked by the attitudes of some of our employees. Then again, I was once there myself, and that is how we’re trained in school, as you pointed out. (Paul Graham has pointed this out, too.)
That said, I have to agree with Andrew; parrot-book-secrets.com is rather on the rent-seeking side. One of the reasons I started a business is because I didn’t want to be there: I wanted to actually produce something fairly significant.
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